Section 21 Notice Still Valid?

[nicklaus]

I moved into my current property in December 2008. I signed the AST, paid the deposit and first month's rent a week before moving in. At the time of signing the tenancy agreement I was also issued with a Section 21 notice which showed the landlord requiring possession at the end of the fixed term. All the dates and language on it appear to be correct so no chance there.

But a month before the fixed term ended I emailed the landlord asking if the tenancy could become a statutory periodic or if I would still be required to leave. I got an email back saying that they would be very happy for me to stay on and the agreement would now become a statutory periodic.

I had believed that this email conversation would invalidate the section 21, but having re-read the SoD thread, it seems that it's not possible to withdraw a S21? My only other hope is that because I signed it a week before I moved in it's not valid? Unfortunately it's dated with the date I moved in, so probably impossible to prove.

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That's the short of the question, the reason I'm worried about this is below if anyone fancies a read...

Since moving in 18 months ago, the landlord has visited the flat in person 23 times (been keeping a log after 3 visits in the first month).

Many of these have been unannounced, and only two of the visits have been at my request. The reasons he has given for the visits have included electrical circuit testing, earth bonding, to borrow a folder of information he gave me, to check the fuse box, even to use the toilet (he lives in a building close by). Whenever he wanted to do any of this work, he would make a big point of saying it would be best if I was out - apparently so as not to disturb me.

I didn't say anything in order to preserve good relations, but the other day he sent a text at 9am asking to come round that morning and do some painting to the door to my flat which had recently been replaced. I replied that 12pm would be a good time. He didn't send a response, I waited and 12pm came and went. I went out for a few hours at 1pm and when I returned, he had been in the flat and done some work to the door and piled my stuff into the corner of the hall. I don't believe that I gave permission for him to enter the flat and this was the final straw.

The next day I sent a very polite letter outlining my concerns about suitable notice periods for visits, the fact he always asked when I would be out and the sheer volume of times he had been round. He came round that night for a meeting and said he wants me to move out. He said he didn't have to give a reason, which is obviously very true. I said all I wanted to do was pay my rent and be left in peace.

I got a bit angry and figured I had nothing to lose now so said I would be esclating this and lodging a harassment complaint against him. He then immediately withdrew his wish for me to move out. So obviously all a bit uncomfortable now, awaiting his next move really.

But can he still seek a possession order based on the original S21 issued at the start of the tenancy? Or will I have at least two months?

Apologies for length.

[tim123]

A S21 notice expires as soon as the landlord grants you the right to stay beyond the termination date stated in the notice.

So he now has to issue a new one

[nicklaus]

Thanks Tim, that was my understanding too. Don't really want to move but will probably have to now things have deteriorated like this. Hopefully can make it on my terms though.

A S21 notice expires as soon as the landlord grants you the right to stay beyond the termination date stated in the notice.

So he now has to issue a new one

[Damocles]

A S21 notice expires as soon as the landlord grants you the right to stay beyond the termination date stated in the notice.

So he now has to issue a new one

I fear it may not be that clear cut.

From what has been said it seems to be the case that the landlord merely confirmed that he was happy for the tenant to stay on and for the tenancy to become periodic. The devil may though be in the detail and without seeing what was said in the exchange of emails I refrain from further comment.

[tim123]

I fear it may not be that clear cut.

I think that it is.

Notice is issued to terminate on a particular date.

If the landlord does not start to enforce the termination as soon as practical after that date has passed, then he can't come along in a year's time and say "why are you still here"?

tim

[porca misèria]

I fear it may not be that clear cut.

From what has been said it seems to be the case that the landlord merely confirmed that he was happy for the tenant to stay on and for the tenancy to become periodic. The devil may though be in the detail and without seeing what was said in the exchange of emails I refrain from further comment.

Devil may be in the detail, but it seems from the dates involved that in this instance the detail has been overtaken by events. But IANAL.

My comment: to the OP, maybe what your landlord really needed all along was no more than a bit of gentle education. Do you have any mutual acquaintances who could sound out over whether he now sees the error of his ways, if he can't bring himself to apologise to your face for the excessive visits?

[nicklaus]

I fear it may not be that clear cut.

From what has been said it seems to be the case that the landlord merely confirmed that he was happy for the tenant to stay on and for the tenancy to become periodic. The devil may though be in the detail and without seeing what was said in the exchange of emails I refrain from further comment.

Thanks everyone for looking at this, the reply I got said he would be happy for me to stay, the key part is below -

As you correctly note, the tenancy agreement will become a statutory periodic tenancy thereafter, requiring 2 months written notice from the next rental due date from either party to terminate.

He's now taken a softer tone in his communication with me and so maybe it can work out. I've got a feeling this isn't the first time something like this has happened. I might try speaking to his other tenants in my building and see if their experience has been similar.

[Damocles]

I cannot see here that the parties agreed a new tenancy. They just confirmed that the law would take its course. They stated the law in correctly, but that is irrelevant.