Mirror Mirror

Excellent post, Sir!

Exactly. Not much of the individual countries rhetoric, rather much more superstate when they are talking about dishing out fines of EUR 250 000 per migrant not accepted by individual countries, acording to their quotas.

No, but they have a leader who intends to construct an effective border, which is what the EU will have to do if it wanst my and I suspect, many others support. When I look at the Lisbon treaty, Article 3, it says EU at the top, not, "the member states of the EU that have collectively signed treaties which create European citizenship". You may as well try and hold me personally responsible for the **** ups of the Blair-Brown regime.

No its not. Of course the EU is responsible. If its wants free movement, then it must ensure strong outside borders, not just say that its important to have such. As I recently mentioned, Lisbon treaty Article 3, para 2. As Ive said already, arguing with you is pretty pointless, as you selectively quote, ignore points to which you have no answer and twist and turn like a slippery snake. You're not an EU commissioner by any chance, are you?

Why were they overwhelmed? Because the EU had sat back and failed to enforce those borders, How did Merkel inviting even more to come 'take the pressure off' anyone? And how about the other points I made? I think Ive made my case here. Ill never vote to remain in the EU, or support it in any way until it gets a grip on the migration crisis. Doing so is existentially Important for Europe, its citizens, culture and even the EU itself.

Well Dave has posted a great graphic; thanks for that. Despite you posting stuff like this, Talk is cheap; watch what they do, not what they say. In addition, if the EU had been serious, they would have put Merkel back in her box back in September 2015 when she effectively told everyone in the ME / NA that they could come if they could get here. They could have assisted EU countries with an external border in making that border more effective. instead of as they did in Melilla, ordering that the power to the electrified fence be switched off. They could step in and prevent Save the Children and Medicins sans Frontiers from acting as traffickers, picking up migrants just a handful of km from the North African coast. Indeed at least one EU politician 9sorry, cant remember who) has said that securing the external borders would be pointless (???) despite Aeticle 3 para 2, Lisbon treaty stating otherwise. Need I go on?

But that would miss the fact that there are plenty of people worried about belonging to an organisation which insists on F of M internally while showing little interest in enforcing its external borders.

Sounds like some good suggestions, but if I may point out the flaws? 1, Would involve MPs voting to relocate from their Ivory towers to less desirable areas. 2. Would involve MPs pissing off their financial backers 3. See 2.

I agree with nearly everything you say on here about Brexit ccc, but in the interests of accuracy, wasnt Norbert Hofer in Austria a candidate for president? Most European countries' presidential positions are elected heads of state, who fulfil a largely non political role and are therotically there as a stop gap against a government passing extreme legislation (bit like the Queen is). (I think, please correct me if Im wrong)

Not when there is no political will within the EU to secure the external borders of the EU it's not. I have no problem with FOM within the EU, but this absolutely has to be predicated on the fact that we will secure the external borders, and there needs to be a mechanism in place to prevent single misguided leaders unilaterally opening the borders to all and sundry. Otherwise, "Im out".

Which, if there was any political will within the EU to secure ite external borders, they wouldn't have to do.

A bit like the Scottish debt in the event of a succesful independance referendum, you mean?

To turn that question round, will all those benefits be available once Britain has left the EU? Will the road in Scotland stil be built or will the diggers disappear in March 2019? Will the EU continue to pay farm subsidies to an ex member? Surely pansion accrual will cease as these British employees and politicians will no longer work for / at the EU?

Well, Im not going to enter into any ridiculous bets with someone on the internet whom Ill never meet, but Ive bookmarked this post and Ill bring it up in 5 years, if we are still here, and we'll see about that.

Ah, your political leanings are starting to become clear. Could you provide evidence of where all these people are racists? As a starting point, it doesnt count just to point out that they are not in favour of mass immigration or globalisation, or that they see the threat from radical islam and are not afraid to voice their concerns about it.

I wish I shared your optimism that things have gotten as bad as they are going to get.

And by posting that you are just attempting to legitimise Juncker's crass remarks about the food. A politician of his supposed standing should know much, much better than to publically sneer about the standard of a host's table.

Maybe. I cant find your post now (was it page 715 of the thread or thereabouts?) so I cant immediatly bring to mind what the original post was about.

Did you miss the word, "yet" in my post?

I doubt that 'its' over yet. Wilders increased his support by a significant measure in the recent Dutch elections, an dwhile I would agree that Le Pen probably wont triumph this time, as she herself has suggested, this time is a springboard for the next elections. I doubt that the factors which are presently funding support for the right of centre parties will diminsh over the next 4/5 years. Austria voted by a narrow margin for a liberal president (who has only recently embarrassed himself with ill considered comments), and arguably only after electoral fraud prevented Norbert Hofer from winning.

Thanks for the correction about the BRD; I was of course referring to the Re unified Germany. I thought you probably meant Russian troops in the GDR. You might as well have said Moscow.

No, the person who bulids or assembles something is not an engineer. An engineer is the person who produces the plans, which turn the concept into a workable idea. He uses his skill to design practical workable solutions using available technologies and materials within the budget available.

Which Germany was that (West, East or the since 1990 existing BRD)?

Me too. Ive given up arguing with him (and 1 or 2 others) now, whats the point? Life is too short. Brexit is happening, que sera sera etc etc.