dances with sheeple
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Posts posted by dances with sheeple
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All this sounds like your in-laws want to try France but have a get out option waiting at home if they don`t like it. I would be very wary of any deal which is in effect an equity release deal with family? Would saying no to the deal cause problems with your in-laws, or even with your wife? (I would still say no). I think the best bet(for you) would be to rent the house here,from them, and advise your in-laws to rent in France to see how they feel in a year or two. Is relying on selling a gaff in France, and a house in England being worth upwards of £400,000 sensible in a quickly deteriorating market? Do you really honestly feel they will be able to realise their price in this coming market? Do they? If they can get their profit out of the house, they probably should, and enjoy their retirement. You should rent and wait for the coming drop in prices for yes even good houses in good cities.
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I am noticing falls here in brighton finally too.Have seen a lot of houses stuck on the market at 270 ish Now coming down to 250.Do you think I could offer 225 for one?
Offer 150, prepare them for whats coming.
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Good stuff, but sad that the newspapers and TV have such a hold over peoples sentiment don`t you think?
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Of course rents are going to rise dramatically, this happened in the last crash. As prices drop yields will go up, not as though it will provide many Landlords with hope, negative equity and mortgage repayments that are still subsiding tenants, it's a no brainer!
Yields will rise as prices drop, if you buy in at the bottom? rents won`t go anywhere, they have been static for ten years. The PRICES have gotten out of control because a two bed flat for example had come to be seen as akin to buying a good plot during the Gold Rush, and "owning" it means you can cash in your chips and become rich someday. Renting a two bed flat is only worth the actual utility value without the speculative value, which means it is not really worth a hell of a lot. House prices are about to go through the floor, and I think all the new build stuff will just make it easier to haggle on the rent in cities.
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The banksters have intentionally ramped up the price of land to force up the size of loans taken out.
They will continue to extract as much interest as possible out of as many people as possible at these prices for as long as possible.
The majority of over-leveraged borrowers will be forced to divert whatever discretionary spend they have left into paying back not only this additional interest, but also into attempting to make savings and/or reduce the amount of the original loan.
For those that already have mortgages at these high levels there will be no respite for many years, since as land (and thus house) prices fall their mortgages tay the same.
In many cases their best option would be to take a hit now, as soon as possible, and get out of their ridiculously high mortgage. Most people will instead hide under the duvet and hope it goes away which it won't.
The banksters have lured them in and f*cked them over good and proper. It will be a long and painful learning experience.
The banks better be careful how they play this. I do think they have overstretched their hand this time, the generation of (especially under thirties) are more sheeplike and brainwashed than previous generations, but they also do not fear debt or feel shame in having debt as much as previous generations. They are not going to roll over and quietly take it from the banks for the next thirty years. Just look at how the reclaiming bank charges thing became a big issue. All it takes is a critical mass of mightily angry people to rally round the cause and the banks will be facing mass defaults , and litigation in all sorts of forms yet to be dreamed up .
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Credit tightening proper plus a whole load of other factors, the fallout hardly started last year, this year it will bite..
125% mortgages have gone.
The rates / standards on 100% down to 75% are getting tighter.
Flippers are going bung / can't sell.
Banks have lost a fortune for fraud - it hasn't been reported fully yet but it will.
Lenders were still lending because they still had a stream of previous securitised lending to work through.
The securitised market is not coming back, the "investors" are still trying to work out how much they have already lost.
Commercial will be further in the tank when all those who were forcibly locked in for 6 months desperately try and escape from
Student let - over half of students have twigged that they will be indebted for years if they blow £20K++ on living out so they are studying locally.
Mirgant let - the jobs are going and so will a lot of the migrant workers.
Plenty more to add to that list.
And judging by the News Blog on here today, things are hotting up. It is going to be like the scene from "Castaway" at the beginning, when Tom Hanks plane goes down, very very scary and unlike anything you can imagine or prepare for (many on here will cope, but a lot of the population are going to be very vulnerable?)
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http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/ho...ome-786327.html
Should buyers beware of property developers bearing gifts? Against the backdrop of a stagnant housing market,
tempting deals are proliferating. But first-timers, in particular, are being urged not to take these offers at face value.
Are people in a position to buy anything now though. Surely we must see the start of big drops soon? The media is all about what COULD happen at the moment. The sellers still think they can hold out for "their price". Some somber faced announcer needs to get on news 24, and just keep saying that because of credit tightening houses are returning to pre-boom prices, it`s official, then hand over to the bloke with the graph, Declan?, to tell you how many hundreds of thousands to knock off your price. Then there will be anarchy and civil war, but we will have a HPC. There is no other way that the general mass of sheeple are going to get the message in a hurry?
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Glad to see I'm not the only one having trouble guessing.
I`d expect a backlash, Kursty`s face is already looking like a smacked bum because she knows the game is up. The only backlash the sheeple could muster though is changing the channel, there is no more desire to seek knowledge in the average sheep than that. If there was this web-site would not exist.
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Sorry, I have no idea what word you mean. Could you (or anyone who's sussed it) at least supply a few letters so I can figure it out?
backlash? bumlash?
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There's plenty of house price crash articles in the newspapers and on TV, and the major house price indices are now reporting falling prices. But when will Sarah Beany and Kirsty & Phil start reflecting today's reality of a backlog of unsold properties, growing repossessions, and dwindling mortgage approvals?
The Nationwide and Halifax indices can't be that far from year-on-year falls, and it'll strain credibility past breaking point if the property porn shows are all still featuring smiling developers when the evidence is writ large that the market's heading south.
I think the reality out there is that "bricks and mortar" is still seen as the way to go. It is going to take a bust of massive proportions to change that view. Television seems not to have credibility at it`s heart though, just shaping public opinion, and it has done a good job over the last 50 years or so. Television would have us believe that the generation of the fifties (the first one to really experience the brainwashing power of TV) were a square and sheeplike lot. In reality, I think they were probably a lot more free in their thinking than people today? That is the distorting and sinister power of television. Property programmes would have been useful to the VI`s to 1/ Try and slow the momentum of the crash. and 2/ Herald in many false dawns of when it is time to buy back in. Some or all of the presenters mentioned above could have been replaced with younger fitter models, just like Blue Peter, and the message modified to suit the state of the market. This battle would have been fought directly between the minds of the sheep and the ideas put forward in the property porn programmes. In less disastrous circumstances the VI`s probably could get people buying back in at prices way over what they need to pay quite easily, but as the credit crunch deepens and worsens, the sheep can only buy at a level dictated by their earning power and whatever the new paradigm in credit supply turns out to be .Even if they want to, the sheep cannot buy anything until the market returns to affordable multiples. A very frustrating situation for the VI`s who must watch the market crash and burn while sheeple are cursing the banks for stopping them "getting on the ladder"!
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People watch things that give them a cozy feeling they are doing the right thing. Even now most sheeple think they have done the right thing buying into the housing market. Housing is a thing that is on the aspirational radar of most people, and is just ripe for all sorts of psychological tweaking as has been done bigtime over the last few years. As the picture changes, the list of property porn programmes will just sink away to nothing, they may be run as repeats on some channel or another, but no one will be watching. The big price drops are not happening out in sheeple land are they? They are not being reported on mainstream news if they are. Most people trying to sell will just be annoyed at the "blip" in the market which is causing them to have difficulty in selling. The notion that your house could be "worth" HALF or less than you paid for it is not one that people will accept of their own freewill. Stories on here about asking prices going UP as the market obviously deteriorates, just underline the thick, greedy mania which is holding the country in it`s grip. "HOW LITTLE IS YOUR HOUSE WORTH" would be a good name for a TV show, but you will never see it, because it would be regarded with the same disgust as child molestation, and in a nation of "Homeowners" would never achieve enough viewers to get backing from any advertisers.
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I was in a Swansea EA's office this afternoon drawn in by about a dozen red lettered 'REDUCED' signs on varous properties. IMPO most of the properties were not reduced by one penny and one, a house that I have seen on the market with them for perhaps 3 years now at 360K, had a reduced sign on it and was priced... you guessed it, 360K!
People who will keep their house on for three years at a price they can`t sell at are greedy and probably stupid when it comes to the reality of this housing market, but they are probably not too desperate to sell. We need some sort of event, picked up on by the media in a way that really scares the sheeple( Neg. Equity on coronation st. maybe?) that gets it across to the people who really should never have been given credit to buy houses that they need to start reducing by about £5k a month until their property shifts or be shafted with debt for the rest of their lives. In a perverse way the NR bailout is probably giving comfort to a lot of sheeple that the government can somehow preserve the state of pricing in the housing market. What else could be keeping this silly silly charade going?
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I 've only been in their shop once and when the served the coffee it was luke warm. I complained and their response was that you have to ask for the coffee to be extra HOT when you place your order. WTF!!! How can a shitty business like that survive for so long.
They sell an image of a cool lifestyle choice for busy wanabes, or wanabes who want to project an image of being busy. During the recession which seems to be gathering pace many many people will be anything but busy and many people will just wanabe employed.Starbucks will have major problems, as the selling rubbish at silly prices thing fits well with the last 7 or so years, but not with the coming few years. People will take part in any old scheme to part them from their money in a credit boom, but not in a credit crunch.
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Interesting but scary thread. The sooner this silliness about house prices always rocketing up gets laid to rest forever the better, but the other effects on the economy are starting to look very very bad indeed. I am actually begining to worry now.
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Four things I took from it. 1/ Ruth Kelly looked better than usual 2/ The sheeple in newcastle just have no conception of what is happening 3/ The bloke who claimed to have lost £100k reminded me of an Enron employee. If you invest heavily in your employer, and can`t be arsed to do the "due dilligence" with the company reports, board share sell offs etc, then you are a d*ck and deserve to lose money 4/ The guy with the grey jogging style top who made the comment about "no subrime" ,and when the bank is resurected it will be a great bargain for some private enterprise must have been a plant. Ruth kelly took her cue from him and went on to try and create a picture of how great the fundamentals of NR really are, saying something along the lines of " the bank was doing great, until this American subrime kicked in" she looked like someone trying to sculpt a gold statue from a large lump of sh*te, All you needed was Patrick Swazye to do a walk on and feel her t*ts.
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I am afraid I agree MarkG. However, I think that those involved in systematically committing and encouraging this fraud should be pursued to the ends of this world - and jailed for a very long time. They have significantly affected the lives of others, badly.
Get real please. Do you see anyone in the dock over Iraq yet? They hung the boogeyman, that says it all. The new boogeyman is MORTGAGE FRAUD , the first two names out of the hat, two businessmen who don`t sound like they originated in the Home Counties, well well, all these shady b*stards in Nottingham,Leeds, and Leicster responsible for pumping the housing market tut tut. The people responsible are the regulators and the government who have allowed big finance to run unchecked for years , and the thick as F*ck sheeple who thought it was okay to keep buying when houses went to ten times salary! No one , I repeat NO ONE of any real concern to the establishment will be in the dock. The establishment will welcome the new boogeyman MORTGAGE FRAUD with open arms because it takes the heat off them.
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Come on guys, do you really think Darling doesn`t know what is going on, of course he does. His job is to guide and contain the sheeple, and for this reason an acknowledgement that things are not well with housing seems to be appropriate. He hopes the sheeple will just hear the words "when housing comes back" and go back to what they were doing. He can`t get up there and start shouting run run sell sell it`s all over ,it`s all over can he?
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There must already be distressed selling going on , maybe only city centre newbuilds so far? I think the fraud angle is going to be pushed in the media and certainly by the government as a way to say "there has been fraudulent turbulence" and that is the reason you can only in your wildest dreams expect to get £100,000 max for your house now. There will be stories about MP`s losing money on a house (probably their 3rd one fully bought by the taxpayer, but the sheeple won`t notice). The fact that it all seems to be still hanging together, or really that people just won`t knock down their price yet, is that housing over the last ten years has been the biggest windfall ordinary punters have ever had in this country. The idea that it is over will certainly not be taken up easily by the masses, we will need headlines saying "Get out now" "Houses crash 15%" etc etc. A big discussion over liar loans in the media would help crash sentiment, but also opens the compensation floodgates. You can see Brown and co`s rationale though. If they had let NR go, and another bank reported it was in trouble, you would have had a repeat panic, and the housing market would be looking a lot more shaky.They have done all they can for now. I would not bet my mortgage on it all ending well.
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Do you want to own that big 5 bed house in the great location, it costs £100?
How about another couple of houses the same so you can rent them out and live on easy street?
Yes? Me too, and your friends might as well, oh and what about the girl on the check out at Tescos?
There is almost infinite demand if the price is cheap enough.
Someone on the site posted a few months ago some excellent supply and demand graphs and descriptions of the theory.
In summary:- Demand increases as the price falls, supply increases as the price increases
supply, demand and price find a balance point.
As cheap money and the BTL mortgage became available the demand increases so prices increase.
Prices will fall if: people can not borrow the money, people can not afford to borrow the money, sentiment changes and people who wanted/were BTL landlords decide its not for them, people looking to buy a bigger house decide not to, FTB decide that renting is cheaper and easier, people decide that having a mortgage is a passport to a life time of debt misery etc etc etc.
Supply and demand works for houses just not in the "there is never enough houses prices always rise" kind of way.
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Perhaps Crash Gordon negotiated with another dimension swapped all that energy for coldplay.
Where's the snooze icon?
Crash Gordon is a d*ck, and coldplay are just about morose enought to play him out.What music did the media choose to play Thatcher out on, I forget.
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The law of supply and demand continues to apply to all markets.
T'was ever thus
I agree. So how long until the big chunky drops, 10%. 15% etc? The sellers are stuck in suspended animation, they don`t want this to be over. Can we have something, government legislation maybe, to ensure that it is over , and that housing price drops start occuring soon?
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I demand someone supply me with an argument.
Music today is b*llocks, and teenage energy ,which keith richards says you have to nurture carefully if you want to keep on playing rock and roll into your forties and beyond, became extinct around 1990 (too many computers and self enhancing drugs?) Ritchie Blackmore (he is about 62) still has more rock and roll energy than the entire UK music industry. So my argument is that the energies that made uk one hell of a creative place over the last 50 years have either disappeared, or been transfered somewhere else? Another dimension perhaps?
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/c...icle3399647.ece
Sums it up brilliantly
Also the comments are interesting too. The sheeple are twigging the housing market for what it is.. a giant ponzi scheme..
I think the sheeple who are leaving comments in various places are just the ones reading this site.The problem is, just over ten years ago, flats and houses were a third of the price they are now.It`s got nothing to do with foreign billionaires for the most part, just cheap and easy credit and sheeple who will believe any S*it they are told, and who have short memories.But tell me though, when did any generation go back ten years in their thinking and lifestyle? So, how is all this going to end, are the wild and spikey haired children of today going back to the (with hindsight) simpler and gentler times of the 80`s?
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One of the local agents has refused to take on any more 1-bed rentals he's snowed under with unlet stuff. The typical family 3/4 bed homes are still letting quickly though.
My personal opinion is that both bottom and end top end will be hit hard, and that the stuff in the middle will fair a little better.
Do you have some vested interest in the "stuff in the middle" by any chance? Seriously though, I`ll have a six bed house with a pool and a maid, and an additional couple of maids in uniform to come in and clean every day, if I can rent it for say £800 per month? There will always be demand to live in the best possible environment, but it comes down to who`s money you are using to buy into this environment. At the moment (or up until recently) if it is the banks money then most people in this country have used to buy "lifestyle", and they are well and truly not going to get any more money for a while,so, "lifestyle" will have to get cheaper, there is no other alternative. The "snowed under with unlet stuff" as far as one bed flats go, makes a mockery of the supply and demand c*ap doesn`t it? (
at least in your area)
* I suppose what I am simply trying to say is, take away the cheap and easy mad multiples of credit, and houses just have to get cheaper if people want to sell them to each other?
A Very Interesting Personal Situation
in House prices and the economy
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Time is certainly on your side but not on the side of your in-laws, Having read this again, I just think you should not get involved in what seems like an over complicated way of avoiding a long drawn out battle to sell their house. If they bought for £90k why not just put the house up for sale and take what the market gives them? No offence, but are you sure this house is as desirable, and most crucially, sought after, as you say?