Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) I'm sure they don't. The closest we get is celtic links with irish pikies/travellers. The Irish travellers appear to have their origins during the massive population displacements suffered during Elizabeth I's conquest of the country, and the use of scorched earth tactics by the English and Welsh forces, particularly in Munster and Ulster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Rebellions Similarly, Scottish travellers appear to have first formed a distinctive sub-community after the 1715 and 1745 rebellions were supressed. Edited June 19, 2009 by gruffydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Irish Travellers are not Gypsies. The word Gypsie comes from Romania - and before that Egypt Gypsies originated in India FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 All three actually. The Roma have been settling in England since the 11th century. Experts from Norfolk Archaeology Unit based at Norwich Castle have discovered a rare form of mitochondrial DNA identified as Romani in a skeleton discovered during excavations in a large area of Norwich for the expansion of the castle mall. not in northern ireland though. there are good and bad but many roma are scum, there is a reason that the eastern europeans hate them, a reason normal romanians hate them and probably the reason the italians put them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 More on Elizabeth's Irish Wars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Rebellions Aftermath After three years of scorched earth warfare, famine hit Munster. In April 1582, the provost marshal of Munster, Sir Warham St Leger, estimated that 30,000 people had died of famine in the previous six months. Plague broke out in Cork city, where the country people fled to avoid the fighting. People continued to die of famine and plague long after the war had ended, and it is estimated that by 1589 one third of the province's population had died. Grey was recalled by Elizabeth I for his excessive brutality. Two famous accounts tell us of the devastation of Munster after the Desmond rebellion. The first is from the Gaelic Annals of the Four Masters: the whole tract of country from Waterford to Lothra, and from Cnamhchoill to the county of Kilkenny, was suffered to remain one surface of weeds and waste… At this period it was commonly said, that the lowing of a cow, or the whistle of the ploughboy, could scarcely be heard from Dun-Caoin to Cashel in Munster. The second is from the View of the Present State of Ireland, written by English poet Edmund Spenser, who fought in the campaign: In those late wars in Munster; for notwithstanding that the same was a most rich and plentiful country, full of corn and cattle, that you would have thought they could have been able to stand long, yet ere one year and a half they were brought to such wretchedness, as that any stony heart would have rued the same. Out of every corner of the wood and glens they came creeping forth upon their hands, for their legs could not bear them; they looked Anatomies [of] death, they spoke like ghosts, crying out of their graves; they did eat of the carrions, happy where they could find them, yea, and one another soon after, in so much as the very carcasses they spared not to scrape out of their graves; and if they found a plot of water-cresses or shamrocks, there they flocked as to a feast for the time, yet not able long to continue therewithal; that in a short space there were none almost left, and a most populous and plentiful country suddenly left void of man or beast. The wars of the 1570s and 1580s marked a watershed in Ireland. Although English control over the country was still far from total, the Geraldine axis of power had been annihilated, and Munster was "planted" with English colonists following the parliamentary arrangements of 1585. Following a survey begun in 1584 by Sir Valentine Browne, Knight, Surveyor General of Ireland, the thousands of English soldiers and administrators who had been imported to deal with the rebellion were allocated land in the Munster Plantation of Desmond's confiscated estates. The Elizabethan conquest of Ireland was completed after the subsequent Nine Years War in Ulster and the extension of plantation policy to other parts of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The Irish travellers appear to have their origins during the massive population displacements suffered during Elizabeth I's conquest of the country, and the use of scorched earth tactics by the English and Welsh forces, particularly in Munster and Ulster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Rebellions Similarly, Scottish travellers appear to have first formed a distinctive sub-community after the 1715 and 1745 rebellions were repressed. are you a fecking retard? Ofcourse British links will be closest with irish travellers than roma gypo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Gypsies originated in India FYI. Actually the word Gypsie has its roots in Egypt - It stems from Northern Italy where Tarot cards (Taroti) first appeared in Europe. The Tarot cards were based upon an Egyptian method of fortune telling which was spread by Romanian travellers. The word Gypsie is derived from the word eGYPtian, and hense that is why Gypsies are also called Romani (Romanians) Edited June 19, 2009 by Neil B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Rom or Gypsy plural Roma Any member of a people originating in northern India but now living worldwide, principally in Europe. Most speak Romany in addition to the local language. It is thought that Roma groups left India in successive migrations, reaching western Europe by the 15th century. In the 20th century they spread to North and South America and Australia. Because of their often nomadic and marginalized lives, population figures are largely guesswork; estimates in the early 21st century range from two to three million. They have often been persecuted and harassed; the Nazis killed about 400,000 Roma in extermination camps. How many Roma retain a nomadic lifestyle is unclear, but those that migrate do so at least seasonally along patterned routes that ignore national boundaries. They pursue occupations compatible with a nomadic life. In the past they were often livestock traders, tinkers, fortune-tellers, and entertainers; today they are often car mechanics, auto-body repairmen, and workers in traveling circuses and amusement parks. Confederations of 10–100 families elect chieftains for life, but their title is not heritable. Women are organized as a group within the confederation and represented by a senior woman. Modern Roma culture faces erosion from urban influences; integrated housing, economic independence, and intermarriage with non-Roma have weakened Roma law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 are you a fecking retard? Ofcourse British links will be closest with irish travellers than roma gypo's. No, this is simply not the case. I'll let you into a little secret... The Roma also settled in Ireland and mingled with the Irish Traveller community. Indeed, the traveller cant you'll find in parts of Ireland includes many Roma words. I suspect there are more Roma than Irish Travellers in England. There really are huge numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Thats a bit unfair. Bulgarians are very nice people they arent 'gipos' (gypos I think is the correct spelling - it comes from Gypsie / Romani - Romania) True, true. Cambridgeshire is the heart of gipo country. And maybe south essex too. Although the 'gypsies' im talking about mostly have red hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Actually the word Gypsie has its roots in Egypt - It stems from Northern Italy where Tarot cards (Taroti) first appeared in Europe. The Tarot cards were based upon an Egyptian method of fortune telling which was spread by Romanian travellers. The word Gypsie is derived from the word eGYPtian. Their language roots from an ancient southern Punjabi/Hindi dialect, and their DNA hails from the same regions. Sure, a whole bunch of them ended up in Egypt, but that is not their origin. Google it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Nope sorry your information is incorrect. Romania was populated by the Romans. The name of the country and their language is an indication: Romanian language is closest surviving language that we have to Roman Latin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) The number of Travellers living in Great Britain is uncertain, with estimations ranging between 15,000 and 30,000. The numbers of Roma are higher. Estimated by the NHS at around 150,000. So who is the retard? Edited June 19, 2009 by gruffydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Their language roots from an ancient southern Punjabi/Hindi dialect, and their DNA hails from the same regions. Sure, a whole bunch of them ended up in Egypt, but that is not their origin.Google it. The people have a genetic ancestry in in the same area as those from Norther India (it is the Aryan race from the middle East) but the word 'Gypsie' and Romani are collectively tied to Egyptian / Romanian / Italian tarot cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The people have a genetic ancestry in in the same area as those from Norther India (it is the Aryan race from the middle East) but the word 'Gypsie' and Romani are collectively tied to Egyptian / Romanian / Italian tarot cards You are talking the etymology of their moniker, I am talking anthropology. We are both right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 You are talking the etymology of their moniker, I am talking anthropology.We are both right. Didnt you just write: Their language roots from an ancient southern Punjabi/Hindi dialect? How can we both be right? It's one of the Romance languages. Cant you just admit that you have just googled all of this without any basis of study? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) are you a fecking retard? Ofcourse British links will be closest with irish travellers than roma gypo's. The number of Irish Travellers living in Great Britain is uncertain, with estimations ranging between 15,000 and 30,000. The numbers of Roma are higher. Estimated by the NHS at around 150,000. So who exactly is the retard? Edited June 19, 2009 by gruffydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Nope sorry your information is incorrect. Romania was populated by the Romans. The name of the country and their language is an indication: Romanian language is closest surviving language that we have to Roman Latin. don't be dim. Romania may have been part of the roman empire, even named after it and populated by romans but that does not mean that gypo's are roman. Gypo's by nature travel, they travelled to romania from india. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashinmattress Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Didnt you just write: Their language roots from an ancient southern Punjabi/Hindi dialect? How can we both be right?It's one of the Romance languages. Cant you just admit that you have just googled all of this without any basis of study? I am a big Django Reinhardt fan, and ever since I have been fascinated by the gypsy music. Some of this led me to read about their history, beyond bloody google, and well before it for that matter, when we actually had to visit libraries for reference. This is not a battle of the minds here chum, we are both right. We are still both correct. EDIT: Trivia....Django was actually a huge influence on the legendary Black Sabbath guitarist, Tony Iommi, as both of them shared a common trait....Two finger guitar style. Django had two of his fingers badly burned as a child, while Tony had two of the tips of his chopped off in a lawnmower accident. Django perfected his style with only two fingers, whilst Tony did his with two, plus rubber fingertips on the other two. Win one at the pub trivia if that ever comes up...which it won't. Edited June 19, 2009 by cashinmattress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) don't be dim. Romania may have been part of the roman empire, even named after it and populated by romans but that does not mean that gypo's are roman. Gypo's by nature travel, they travelled to romania from india. Outbursts like this remind me of why I gave up teaching. Edited June 19, 2009 by Neil B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The number of Irish Travellers living in Great Britain is uncertain, with estimations ranging between 15,000 and 30,000. The numbers of Roma are higher. Estimated by the NHS at around 150,000. So who exactly is the retard? Still you. The point was about british ancestry. Brits closest link is with Irish travellers since there are celtic and tribal links and common ancestry that far predate the arrival of gypo's around the 15th centuray. The numbers here now are irrelevant. Retard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Outbursts like this remind me of why I gave up teaching. At least you weren't called a retard for posting correct information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Outbursts like this remind me of why I gave up teaching. because you didn't know anything and couldn't answer questions? yeah, we had some of those too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Still you. The point was about british ancestry. Brits closest link is with Irish travellers since there are celtic and tribal links and common ancestry that far predate the arrival of gypo's around the 15th centuray. The numbers here now are irrelevant. Retard. The Irish travellers only arrived on the scene after the Elizabethan wars. That's my understanding. The Roma arrived in the 11th century in England, as already pointed out. Give up. You're beat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) because you didn't know anything and couldn't answer questions?yeah, we had some of those too. Not that it's any of your business but I went on to study engineering and then astro physics and applied mathematics.=, then subsequently started my own succesful business. The pay was crap as a teacher anyway and the class was full of know it all tossers like you that I had the misspleasure of not actualy teaching but arguing with like this 5 days a week. Edited June 19, 2009 by Neil B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Still you. The point was about british ancestry. Brits closest link is with Irish travellers since there are celtic and tribal links and common ancestry that far predate the arrival of gypo's around the 15th centuray. The numbers here now are irrelevant. Retard. Helleiner, Jane (2003). Irish Travellers: Racism and the Politics of Culture. University of Toronto Press Try reading this. I'm sure more distant British ethnic origins lie in many different places. According to Dr Mark Thomas and his team of biologists at University College, London, the Anglo-Saxons who invaded Britain from what is now Germany between the fifth and seventh centuries drove out the indigenous population of Celts from most of the island. Others disagree. Edited June 19, 2009 by gruffydd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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