Keith Wibble

What persecution would Ronnie Biggs have faced from the state? He was fearful of prosecution, not persecution. Again though you appear to be confusing an asylum application with someone with refugee status. After reading around the subject his man faced deportation. What I asked was for an example of someone who had been granted refugee status that was subsequently found to have been from a fraudulent application for asylum. I asked for this because you claimed people granted refugee status then went on holiday back to the country they claimed persecution from. So far you have given the case of a 12 year old who didn't go on holiday anywhere and a man posing as a child at school who is now facing deportation or been deported.

Exactly. My point is that we shouldn't refuse an asylum claim based on whether the person could be deemed to have brought it on themselves as the poster I was replying to suggested.

After further reading it appears his father might still be in Somalia which would make the original family claim to Asylum in the UK non fraudulent as clearly they would be in fear of persecution. Interestingly the British government used militiamen from a failed state to capture him and bring him back to the UK so clearly there is no moral compunction in their actions. Also interesting is the fact that Somalia was a former colonial state.

Becoming a warlord usually happens after the breakdown of a state where people do what they have to do to survive. Anyway, I have no idea if the dad originally came with his son. All I know is that he came with family and hasn't made a fraudulent claim for asylum. Your question is rightly a moral one but once you introduce moral judgement or personal politics into an asylum claim you defeat the purpose of asylum. A Jewish person in Nazi Germany may have broken a law specifically aimed at Jews or just been convicted without just cause so are you saying we should make a judgement based on that person being a 'criminal'?

Don't know how to edit but meant to also note that Mustafa Jamal was not an Asylum Seeker as claimed by the DM. It's certainly a trigger term for their readers though.

Mustafa Jamal came to the UK as a 12 year old. He was granted leave to stay 6 years later. He would at no time have been involved in making any asylum claims, fraudulently or not. It would have been his parents making the claim and given one of them was a warlord I'd say their claim to be fleeing persecution held up. After he was released from prison he was considered for deportation but international law prevented this due to the precarious state of his homeland. Given this was 17 years after he was taken out of Somalia he probably calculated the difference between him being a 12 year old child and now a 29 year old man lessened his risk going back to his homeland and was preferable to being incarcerated for a long time (he got 35 years here in the end). The DM use terms very loosely to confuse their readers into following their political agenda and needs to be read with a critical and analytical eye. Often though it's just cheap manipulated click bait. I like to read around the subject a little more beyond the DM to at least get a more informed perspective. So, back to square one.

Cab you evidence a single person that has been granted refugee status that has then been proven to be fraudulent?

"Breitbart News Network is an American far-right syndicated news, opinion and commentary website founded in mid-2007 by American conservative commentator Andrew Breitbart, who conceived it as "the Huffington Post of the right"." Even taking account of the above quote that story amounts to the net sum of zero. An 18 year old with a dodgy background getting paid to write for various news outlets makes serious unproven claims.

If it's in the first person then it's his personal thoughts. What is the date of Albania accepting the conditions that cover the preconditions for accession negotiations and the date the Albania asylum seeker made a claim?

Asylum seekers do not get housing benefit.

We don't get to pick which claims we process as we are signatories to the 1951 convention which allows anyone from anywhere to seek asylum in the UK. We either process all claims or none or the point of a convention on refugees becomes meaningless.

I struggle to believe the day after they were granted asylum they went back to their country of origin on holiday.

Have you clicked the bottom link in his twitter post and read it?

The 1951 Refugee Convention doesn't prohibit asylum claims from people based on whether their country of origin has applied to join a trading bloc. Everyone has the right to apply for asylum or the idea of seeking asylum would become pointless.

They were the comments of a single person. I have posted the issues Albania had to address to start negotiations.

Fear is a feeling, theft isn't. How can you prove a genuine fear or not? I struggle to believe someone went on holiday back to the country they just claimed asylum from the next day.

Claiming asylum comes under the 1951 Refugee Convention that we signed up to after the Nazi atrocities of WW2. Considering granting something isn't the same as granting it RE: Albania and the EU. Albania applied to the EU over a decade ago and it's still being negotiated as there have been objections from member states. "Albania is given certain pre-conditions for starting the accession negotiations, such as passing reforms in the justice system, a new electoral law, opening trials for corrupt judges and the respect of human rights for its Greek minority."

How would you prosecute someone for making a claim they are legally entitled to make? You can be prosecuted for giving false information but that isn't what I think you're referring to. This from the government website: "To be eligible you must have left your country and be unable to go back because you fear persecution."

A selective quote is not the same as a 'secret plot'.

I would suggest that a quote needs context and that the DM story you posted didn't have any and furthermore what they suggest is blatant twisted nonsense but I agree, a selective quote does exist.

That Andrew Neather secret plot stuff is right wing media wanking.

Did you report them?

I would contend that Hitler didn't win in a straight democratic race.

I heard that he though she said f*****g over here instead of flocking.

Those in the former red wall towns may have a different view and ieeceorion is everything. Prior to Austerity the Blairites proper shafted these people and they felt abandoned and kicked back.