[No Kids For You!]

We live in a consumerist society. When I was growing up we never had much but were always well fed, appropriately clothed for the season of the year and most importantly loved unconditionally.

I really meant what I posted earlier when I said you can never afford to have kids,if you want them you just have to cut the cloth to suit.

What???? I make 28k a year, which i believe is above the national average. After tax and student loan ddeductions, i am left with just over £1600. I live in london for my job - how the f*** am i supposed to raise a family on that? A 1 bed flat would go for about £900 minimum in rent, can i raise a child in a 1 bed flat?? a 2 bed flat would be more like £1100 minimum. Then there is council tax, about £120, then bills, another £100 easy. So out of my £1600 pay packet i have £280 for food and baby expenses. Do you think that is enough? Ok the mother works - but then a huge chunk of her wage would go on childcare.

Things are different now to when you were growing up sir....

[No Kids For You!]

Acceptance of this must become commonplace. There are 6 billion people alive and global resources are declining. More children are not needed. Not having children is doing the world a favour.

It's sad for us the younger generation (myself included) who for financial reasons aren't able to have a family but that's the way it is. That's the time we live in.

Some people in my peer group have had children so there will be a future. In a few generations time conditions might be more suitable again and more of the people might be able to breed.

but people are breeding - the wrong type of people, those who cant be f***** to work. Decent people cant afford children anymore, in 2-3 generations, there will be only 'chavs' everyone else would have died out or moved abroad....

["should You Drop Your House Price To Sell?"]

*puts head in hands* there is something wrong with the world when a two bed flat is over half a million pounds...

Turnham green is a nice area, but i cant see how it can be worth more than 200,000.... fingers crossed eh

[Credit Crunch Tastes Fishy]

I've noticed increasing volumes of Asian cuisine menus being stuffed through my door this could be another indicator. But to be fair Cod and chips is about the same price as a decent curry.

Sorry, i dont know where you live, but near me in west london you can get an excellent cod and chips for about £3, you aint getting a decent curry for less than £15

[Thoughts On Forecast]

But what industry would that be. Thatcher didn't see the long term future in a manufacturing industry, for political and economic reasons, so we shifted to a service industry base, but what do we shift to next. Mass tourism? Germany, East Germany especially, seems to be going very hard towards solar renewable technologies as a base for a future economy. I guess we could really go for trying to build up expertise into wave power. I don't think we can build a whole economy on our expertise in engineering innovation and creative invention in its wider sense. We'll design stuff but have it made abroad.

So is it back to the land then and agriculture for the majority? But there's a lot more in this country now than then.

To be honest I just think we're going to become vastly poorer as there's no mass employment sector for us to turn to. Being from Liverpool I know what happens to a place when it loses it's industrial reason for mass employment. The containerisation of the port, and the reduction in transatlantic traffic led to 50% unemployment figues in parts of the city. I worry that this is what's in store for the rest of the UK.

Im afraid i dont know, my point was simply that things are always in a state of flux - who knows what technological advancements, or new industries await over the horizon. I just wanted to counter against some of the more pessimistic posts which assumes the uk will not change with the times - i think thats highly unlikely. How successful any change is, remains to be seen.

[Thoughts On Forecast]

I am in no way an economics expert, and as an outsider in these kind of x versus y economics arguments currently taking place on the board, would like to point out that both sides base their arguments on an awful lots of assumptions, projected over a near impossible to predict timeline. I think the likelyhood of anyone accurately predicting what the world will be like in 50 years, is close to nil. Even 10 years is close to wild speculation.

One thing i would say to those with the UK is doomed, or UK/US/Western world is doomed theories, is do not underestimate the ability to fightback and change things. I think both countries have been in pretty serious problems over their existence, and have over come them. This could well be the case again. OK so london loses its attraction to financial services, well previously the UK lost manufacturing, who is to say financial services industry can not be replaced by other industries?

One thing i do know for certain, the long term future is unpredicatable.

[My Depression - Stress Of Hpi]

Me too. My long term school friend has made me feel exactly that way. Her husband is a policeman, she is a part time teaching assistant, they have 3 kids together and her husband has one from a previous relationship that he pays CSA for, so not mega loaded.. but they managed to upgrade their house to one in the suburbs and buy a BMW X5. Since she found out I am renting and drive a 53 reg Rover 25, she barely talks to me now.

I can live with it, I am not bothered. It hurt at the time and I've had those episodes where I've sat and felt worthless as everybody around me seems to have done well for themselves.. but I get over it eventually. I'd rather not be friends with somebody who feels that they have to judge and look down at me because of unfortunate circumstances in my life preventing me buying a house. I am sure to afford what they have they have either mewed or indebted themselves to the hilt.

excellent post. I have had the same feelings, and sometimes i wonder how those around me afford everything. They all have houses, nice cars, new clothes and regularly holidays, yet earn similar amounts as me. Its never discussed how they afford so much that i cant, the simple answer must be that they are heavily in debt, its all been purchased and consumed on credit, and i suspect many many people are in a similar situation.

["housing Market Strong" Says London Agent In Newspaper]

yet more VI nonsense http://www.northfields.co.uk/news/5/58.html

Why do they continue with this utter tripe??? The housing market is screwed, just admit it. Estate agents, pack up your sales arms for a few years and focus on lettings... or if they want to avoid a prolonged crash, just reduce everything by 65% now.

It really annoys me when i see this kind if piffle, personally i would be embarassed to publish such barefaced lies...

[Bargain In Hammersmith]

Look at this one bed flat in hammersmith.... How the f*** can they call that a bedroom????? this one property perfectly sums up the ridiculous, grotesque, exploitative nature and sheer greediness of the market of the last decade. Just makes me fume with rage... i hope the price falls to £5.28p and the person who engineered this monstrosity ends up stacking shelves at somerfield.

http://www.bushells.com/search/details.php...&buyorlet=1

Oh and i have lived in west london all my life, 'brackenbury village' = hammersmith/shepherds bush = dump rathole. Makes me sick that people try to market this area as desirable.

Rant over.

[Awareness Levels]

I have noticed a bit more pessimism, but their almost fanatical faith in property still seems to have a hold of them. The general feeling amonst home owners in my office is that its just a blip, and things will stagnate for a bit before going up at a slower rate than previously. They also think that that only 'poor people' will struggle....

When i ask why their wont be a crash, they dont seem to be able to provide an answer other than - people always need somewhere to live, and there are more people than houses...

I think we are a long way off a complete awakening, maybe by then end of 2008 this will have happened... i think we need a really major incident to be drummed into them repeatedly on the news...

[The Welcome Thread For New Members]

Hi all, been lurking for a while now Have become addicted to this site, some very interesting threads.

I am 26, on £40k, am debt free, and live in West London. For a couple of years now i have thought that something must be wrong if i can not afford even a small 1 bed flat. I never thought too deeply about it, and like most of the population, i can admit i was pretty much brainwashed and believed that prices would keep on going up. I have an economics degree, and all those books i read were telling me that this was unsustainable, but property prices just kept on rising, and after time i began to think that maybe this madness would never end. I came very close to buying horrible dingy studio flats, buying a flat with 2 friends, and even shared ownership. Luckily each time my brain kicked into gear and told me it was a bad idea. I decided to forget about owning a home - if the prices fell then i would consider buying, if they didnt fall, well i just would accept that i would never be a home owner.

I am now renting with friends (£500 per month), and saving £1k per month, as well as taking regular holidays and enjoying life. I am shocked and appaulled that my fellow man has been paying £250,000+ for dingy tiny shoeboxes in sh*tholes like shepherds bush and acton. Thats a quarter of a million pounds people!! I think i would only consider purchasing if flats in west london drop below £100k, if that doesnt happen, then i will continue to save my £1k per month and invest elsewhere.. I doubt it will happen, as that would mean falls of at least 60% but i remain hopeful.

Lets hope some sanity returns to the UK!