cock-eyed octopus
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Posts posted by cock-eyed octopus
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24 minutes ago, kzb said:
We joined the EEC on 01 January 1973.
So if you are 50 you were a toddler.
No matter, you can look at the economic data from that period and see how 1973 marked the start of the end of unbroken growth we had enjoyed since WW2. Other European countries inevitably grew faster from a base of devastation, and some of them caught up with us.
The bad stuff you see on the TV about the 1970s didn't start till after we joined. The EU didn't rescue us from the 1970s. It was one of the factors that caused the 1970s.
There were a couple of factors, generally ignored, which I think pushed inflation in the 70s:
1) Decimalisation. This particularly affected food prices, as they were generally rounded up, & 1/2 ps soon disappeared. The effect was as much psychological as anything because people still tended to think a penny was a penny.
2) Joining the Common Market. I think it was the Daily Mirror that used to keep track of the cost of a basket of shopping; I remember them showing the cost of a similar basket on the Continent & it was vastly higher (I can't remember how much, but it was at least 20% & fuel prices were around double). Sure enough staple prices here soon started to rise to Continental levels.
This pressure contributed to the Unions demanding higher wages, government & industry resistance & the resultant civil unrest.
There were a lot of other complex factors (as always) operating simultaneously (oil price crisis for one) but I don't think the above factors can be ignored.
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38 minutes ago, Dorkins said:
I'm not talking about 3rd party laws, I'm talking about the UK's own import laws. When the UK leaves the EU customs union it will become its own customs area and that means collecting tariffs on goods entering the UK from the EU.
Do we need to apply tariffs?
And I seem to remember something about WTO allowing existing tariff arrangements to continue for a period (3 months?) with organisations they already trade with.
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3 hours ago, Dorkins said:
If there is a customs and/or regulatory border in Ireland, the UK government will enforce it. Developed nations have rule of law and they don't allow lawlessness to exist within their territories. Politicians from the UK government, the RoI government and the EU have been saying there won't be a border in order not to frighten the horses but they don't actually mean it.
We've been through this before (pages 3017/3018).The UK is not obliged to enforce third party laws.
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22 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:
It’s the lies and misinformation on both sides that really annoy me.
That man is a fecking idiot.
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1 hour ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:
Irish voters didn’t vote for Brexit. Why should a wall be forced upon them at the behest of others?
Talk to the EU, 'cause the UK ain't listening.
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5 minutes ago, copydude said:
No one likes a smartass ?
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42 minutes ago, dugsbody said:
We have. I think I remember a "howl at the moon" post at some point. I'm fundamentally positive about technological progress, perhaps sometimes naively so, and think that it overall enriches our lives. We've bashed heads on this for quite some time. I also have a - perhaps naive - hope that as a human species we can gradually move away from tribalism and fighting and blaming the one another (ie. foreigners). That is probably the biggest reason I want the EU project to succeed. It's aim is to unite a continent of people who have a history of warring with each other. And I believe the right of humans to move and live across more of our shared globe is a good thing ultimately.
Quite agree about technology.
I too hope we can move away from crude tribalism, but I think we'll always need a group to identify with.
it's fundamental to human relationships; people group into hierarchies of family, friends, acquaintances, workmates, with whom you engage with to a greater or lesser degree. By the time the group gets country sized (which is variable) your engagement is being stretched to its limit. Elected representatives are remote, your influence is small, & the government so distant as to be an irrelevance to everyday life - if your lucky.
Adding another, supranational layer to that is, I think, a step too far. If their governance was seen to be wise, disinterested & free of corruption then you might persuade people that it's a good idea, but unfortunately I don't believe that to be true.
And actually I think people quite like the difference (vive la difference!) of other cultures, & are quite happy to co-exist with them - so long as they respect the existing culture's right to exist. Good fences make good neighbours.
The right of humans to move around is fine, but when a totally alien culture arrives & tries to dominate the existing one I'm afraid the results will not be pretty.
It's adiabatic vs. isothermal expansion again!
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7 minutes ago, Dorkins said:
Guess it depends how you define "hard border". If the UK leaves the customs union and single market there will be a customs and regulatory border in Ireland and it will be enforced. Could be enforced by men in funny uniforms standing in posts on the border, could maybe be enforced less visibly by cameras and men in funny uniforms driving around in mobile customs units (I have no idea how practical this would be). Either way it will be enforced.
I would have thought incoming lorries could be checked at destination. Outgoing would have to comply when they left the factory/depot.
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20 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:
A bit of a crass way to put it, but a camera cannot put a probe up a chicken's #### to check for pathogens.
I think we may have been through this before, but don't we do these checks already?
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32 minutes ago, Dorkins said:
Import tariffs and regulations are UK law, how else could they be enforced? If a company didn't pay up the government wouldn't be able to take them to court to enforce it.
Like I say, the UK is a nation with rule of law.
If a company breaks UK law when it moves goods to or from the UK then it can be taken to court. Nothing to do with having a hard border.
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2 minutes ago, Dorkins said:
Yes, it will. The UK government enforces its laws within its own territory. That's what sovereignty is.
It won't be UK law.
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11 minutes ago, Dorkins said:
The UK and Irish governments. Developed nations don't allow lawlessness to exist within their territories.
You think the UK government will? I don't.
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I think we've just found the man to negotiate with the EU:
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24 minutes ago, thehowler said:
And things hotting up for the ROI with Juncker's spokesperson saying there will have to be a hard border...no doubt Mr Coveney will be tweeting a rebuttal to that within 45 minutes...oh yeah.
Maybe a kickback to the Poles pointing out quite reasonably that there's no good reason why the backstop shouldn't be time limited, and everyone else saying shush.
And that border will be set up & enforced by ...
I know, let's get The Donald in!
Can he do it? Yes he can!
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4 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:
We live in a democracy not a dictatorship, people are free to express an opinion. If Brexit cannot survive without everyone having to pretend they believe in it then it shouldn't.
Barnier, as he said he would, has been happy to meet people from right across the spectrum, there is no evidence he has taken any notice of any of them. The real problem is closer to home, Parliament still cannot agree on a version of Brexit that is palatable to a majority. A problem that arose directly from vote Leaves strategic decision to obtain a majority by selling a vision not a proposal.
If you (Grayling) go around asking a foreign power to punish the British people then you must expect a hostile response.
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7 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:
Exhibit A:
I really feel quite violent towards prof. Grayling.
Fortunately I am unlikely to meet him in person. I fear things could get a bit messy if I did.
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14 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:
Stare aid under WTO could well be actionable by other states. If we want to have favorable trade agreements with the ROW, we don’t want to start narking them off from the outset.
The 39bn would be made to look like chump change. Not only in lost trade, revenue from taxes et al, but also benefit payments to those who have been laid off.
Do no other WTO members have some form of subsidy to protect vital industries then? How does defence work? Is there nothing we could do to prevent farming in this country from being destroyed? I'm surprised anyone belongs to the WTO if it makes them so vulnerable.
I understand what you're saying about the £39bn, but the net results on trade etc. are much more difficult to quantify.
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1 minute ago, Chunketh said:
I can't see farmers being happy with that!
A good area for some form of subsidy to be applied.
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1 hour ago, Dave Beans said:
Which would destroy any relevant UK industry that rely on tariffs to protect its interests,and it wouldn't be reciprocal either...Foreign companies would be able to send everything into the UK tariff free, but UK companies shipping to say Brazil, would be facing tariffs. Therefore, If we dropped most/all tariffs to zero, why would any country need to sign an FTA with us?
Zero tariffs wouldn't provide an open border either. Its the harmonisation of standards that would..They wouldn't have to apply just on Ireland, but in Liverpool Docks, Felixtowe, Dover, etc..
I'm not sure protecting industry via tariffs is a good idea. There may be some industries which need protecting because of strategic interests or have a long term future; we could decide to help them out if that's the case. Having £39 bn in reserve would help of course ...
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1 minute ago, Sheeple Splinter said:
Why do some people create multiple ID's?
They're a bit mental,
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"Hairy" something wasn't it?
Ob2? summat like that.
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2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:
If you own 3 houses why the feck are you on house price crash?
I wonder if Smiley is really that bloke who disappeared about the same time Smiley appeared.
Can't remember his name, but I seem to remember he was half German & half Asian & lived in Eire. The mixture of smugness & anger in his posts seem about the same.
Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.
in House prices and the economy
Posted
One thing that strikes me about the food imports ceasing on March 30th is:
for every importer there exists an exporter.
In other words: what the friggin' hell are all those fresh food growers on the Continent gonna do with their stuff??