bazzup
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Posts posted by bazzup
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My main use for the old ELL for me, was to get from Docklands via the Jubilee Line, change at Canada Water and take the ELL to Whitechapel. However its also a quick and easy bike ride. Once at Whitechapel or even Wapping the City is but a short and pleasant walk away. Speaking to tourists that have "walked" London they are amazed at how compact the centre is, and how the Underground makes everywhere seem miles apart!
Out of interest. I wonder if you can still take cycles on the new ELL trains. The ELL, like the District Line, basically being a "proper" railway, had bigger carriages so could accomodate bikes. Be interesting to know if this is the case. However some of the ELL stations are quite deep.
Yes, you can take bikes on there.
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Brockley is not exactly far from the new cross's, so before it even closed two years ago you could do most of the stuff mentioned with a short walk either side. Spitalfields market is dire imo since they redeveloped it, just full of the same old chains. The whole area (brick lane to hoxton) has a feel faux trendy feel to it.
Well sure, with an extra 15 minute walk you could have got to the old ELL station. But a) 15 mins makes a big difference, especially if you're commuting both ways every day
the trains were much less frequent c) the trains were much less nice and d) you couldn't go to as many places because it was a much shorter line d) the stations were much less good - we now have lift access at many of the stations, which makes a big difference to people with pushchairs or wheelchair users e) the trains that served London Bridge from Brockley were always overcrowded - they aren't any more. I could go on...It should be fairly obvious that having a brand-new tube-like service serving your neighbourhood and more than doubling the capacity of trains from your local station makes a big difference. But you can keep telling me that it doesn't if you like.
Check out the links I've posted. Don't take my word for it, read what other local people have said. Bear in mind that they are talking amongst themselves, so aren't just trying to big-up their area to outsiders.
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The East London line isn't a 'proper' tube line though is it. Frequency is nowhere near that of the deep level lines and it doesn't go into central London, it's really just a glorified overground line. I lived in north London for many years and while Wood Green wasn't the most salubrious of areas it did at least have a super fast and frequent tube line - Piccadilly line with cross platform interchange to Victoria line at Finsbury Park. I could be in the west end door to door in 20 minutes, or in trendy Islington for a night out in a little over 10.
I then moved to Sydenham in South East London because it was much cheaper and I could get my own place. What a bloody big mistake that was! It's a complete pain in the ar*e to get anywhere from SE London. My journey time to work went from 30 minutes to an hour and twenty minutes. For someone who works in WC2 an overground that dumps you at London Bridge or an or East London line that doesn't even go into central London is about as useful as a windscreen wiper on a submarine. Ended up buying a Vespa in the end because the journey from SE London was such a nightmare on public transport. Social life went out of the window because it was such a mission to get home after an evening in central London. Plus I felt like I was living in an episode of Terry and June, only with too many chavs and council estates in the vicinity. It just didn't feel like London at all.
I'm not living in London at the moment but if I ever went back I'd never live South of the river again, it'd have to be North London and I'd have to be close to a fast and frequent tube line.
There is a reason property prices are much cheaper in SE London, it's the crappy transport links and no glorified overground line that doesn't even go anywhere useful is going to persuade me otherwise.
Regarding ELL frequencies, 12 trains per hour run through the core route - one every five mins. Not as frequent as many of the core lines, but plenty for the numbers that it has to carry and enough to ensure that you never really have to wait for a train. In Brockley, we also have 6 trains to London in the morning peak and four at all other times.
Regarding Wood Green v Brockley, if you live near Islington, you can get to Islington in 10 mins. I can get to beautiful Greenwich or trendy East Dulwich in the same amount of time. Now I have the ELL I can also get to Shoreditch, with its nightlife (vastly-superior to Islington's - and I say that as someone who likes Islington) in 15 minutes. I can also still get to London Bridge in 10 mins, on the doorstep of Borough Market, Tate Modern, Unicorn Theatre, etc, etc. In a couple of years time, when the Shard is built, the environment around London Bridge will be even better. Plus of course, the Thameslink project (finally in full swing) will make London Bridge an even more useful station, with lots more services through central London and out the other side.
I used to live in Finsbury Park, btw, because of its access to central London and Islington - Brockley is far superior to Wood Green in terms of connections.
Regarding access to WC2. Direct trains to London Bridge from Brockley take 10 mins. A one minute change at London Bridge to Charing X and you can be on the Strand, WC2 in another 7 or 8 mins. Total journey time: 20 mins. Don't like swapping trains? Brockley is also served by St Johns station, with direct Charing X services.
Regarding the ELL route - yes, it doesn't go through the West End. That's a weakness but also a strength, since it doesn't get as crowded as West End lines. It does go to central London though - the East side of the City, where hundreds of thousands of people do their daily commutes. Ultimately, it all depends where you want to go. However, with an interchange at Canada Water that takes less than 30 seconds, you can be on the Jubilee Line and at Bond Street in about 20 mins after leaving Brockley.
The one major criticism I have of the ELL is that it finishes too early - just before midnight. Hopefully that will change once the extension to Islington opens next year.
Honestly, give the ELL a go - it's a pleasure and bloody handy.
I'll leave it for the residents of Sydenham to discuss their home, but Sydenham is not all of South East London. Don't like Sydenham, try Blackheath, Greenwich, East Dulwich, Borough, Waterloo, Dulwich, Brockley, Honor Oak, etc. Don't like South East London, fine, just don't moan that you can't afford to buy in London.
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Seriously? West London, which I don't much like either. I'm in the London hating camp I'm afraid.
I used to think that people who liked East London were just pretentious twits who though there was something cool about being poor, or living in a crummy neighborhood. The East end I am asked to visit on occasion is really just a kind of poverty theme park.
Now I think maybe its just a fundamental personality distinction between those who do, and those who don't. Personally, I absolutely cannot see anything remotely good about, say, shoreditch. The food on Brick lane is pretty good, and some of the bars are ok, but the area is horrible. However, I have some good friends who totally disagree.
The really interesting thing about London, is that it illustrates the way that high house prices can produce poverty from wealth. London is a poor city. By comparison with the other areas of the UK I have lived in, even Knightsbridge and Kensington are nothing special. If you earn 80k in London, on paper you are pretty rich. In reality, you live in a two bedroom flat, use public transport to get to and from work, and live down the road from a council estate.
My former school teachers, for example, have cars, houses and gardens. They are richer.
Oh, and I have nothing against Salisbury, I've never been.
I'd say London produces wealth from poverty. You're poor in many parts of the country and you have nothing. In London, the poorest of us still has access to amazing free parks, museums, galleries, public spaces where free events are constantly taking place, spectacular walks and amazing history. All of that is within easy reach by bike or by a public transport system (buses still v cheap) that puts the rest of the country to shame. And of course, a jobs market that is comparatively buoyant compared with most of the rest of the UK. A car? In London, you barely need one - a car is a burden, not a measure of wealth. A house and a garden? Move to SE London. Teacher friends of mine have both.
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Vibrant is London slang for shithole.
So Shadwell is only 20 minutes from Brick-Lane? Not far enough for my liking, Brick Lane is one of the most vibrant parts of London.
'But the curry houses there are fantastic' Yeah well, apparently there's oil in Afghanistan.
Anyway, why is no-one outraged that the taxpayer spends money on a railway, and the profits go to homeowners? Same with the olympics. It has to be propoganda, the iniquity is so obvious.
I appreciate that this forum is popular with people who think London is dreadful and so are all the people who live there. But no, it wasn't a code word, I can get off the train at Shoreditch and wander around Spitalfields market, check out the food markets and galleries of Brick Lane, go to amazing restaurants, kicking bars and enjoy historic streets. Columbia Road flower market and Hoxton Square an easy walk or hop back on the train. If I happened to work in or around Liverpool Street and the East of the Square Mile, it would be incredibly handy too.
Check out this review of Shoreditch by the ELL. Or don't. And stick to your prejudices.
Where do you live, out of interest?
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I don't think the research is worth paying much attention to, but some of the comments on this topic about the East London Line and many of the areas it serves are completely wide of the mark.
The East London Line is amazing - if you haven't tried it, you should. By far the best line in London now. Smooth, air conditioned, easily-accessible stations, great connections with the Jubilee, District and DLR, wide carriage so less crowding and great for bikes. For areas that were already served by the old line it's merely an improvement, for areas that it was extended to, it's transformative. I live in Brockley, it has great connections to London Bridge, but the East London Line has cut nearly all my journey times, massively increased frequency on the line and opened up new direct connections. Check out the feedback by users on this local blog:
And this is all before it gets extended to Highbury and Islington next year and joins up to Crossrail in 2016. Not to mention, the long-awaited Jubilee Line upgrade completion later this year...
As for the comments made about many of the stops, places like Hoxton, Shoreditch and Whitechapel are some of the most vibrant and exciting in London while neighbourhoods like Crystal Palace and Brockley are fantastic to live in and well worth a visit.
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Don't understand why Deborah reposted someone else's post from 10 months ago without adding any comment.
What's the point?
And it's about New Cross anyway, not even Brockley.
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There are some nice bits of Sydenham but to be honest it is such a big area...
Sydenham Hill (off College Road) is particularly nice. Don't know the other bits so well.
Sydenham's a bit of a poor relation to Forest Hill - it's OK, but there's nothing much there. If you can, why not look for somewhere in Forest Hill, or better still Brockley, which is much closer in to town and a nicer area - check out this site for details of the place http://brockleycentral.blogspot.com
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Sure, the price differentials are very odd... but either price seems outlandish when you see what similar '60s cool you can get in nearby Eltham (right beside Eltham Palace, in a leafy area close to Mottingham station) which is only a few minutes drive/train ride away.
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-201...=2&tr_t=buy
I know Blackheath is trendy, with its restaurants and wine bars, but with the difference in price you could afford to keep a chauffeur-driven Bentley in the drive when you needed a fix of trendiness!
Nearby Eltham?! They're quite far apart (particularly the bit of Eltham near the palace) and are entirely different areas. It's true there are some lovely houses in Eltham, but lumping the two together is like lumping Belsize Park in with Kilburn.
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Try this:
Brockley Central on house prices
There's obviously a lot of us HPC-ers in the vicinity.
I wouldn't get too worried about house prices going through the roof, however: the east london line is mostly an overground service, and they're planning to cut back the frequency of trains on the London Bridge train line:
The truth about the overground?
And look at it this way: has having the same tube line really made New Cross a desirable place to live?
Thanks for adding the right link.
However, the stuff about cutting back the trains to London Bridge is an outdated fear which has now been put to rest, certainly for Brockley services. The train frequency will be the same. As for it not really being the tube, that is only true in the sense that it will be administered by TfL rather than LU. So what? It will still be a fully intergrated tube service, with the frequency of a tube. It doesn't go underground a lot, but then neither do large stretches of every tube line. And the trains will have aircon.
Your point about New Cross is a false analogy (and ignores the fact that the Telegraph Hill bit is a very nice area and that New Cross centre has decent nightlife) - the whole point is that it didn't have the same tube line - the old East London Line was not much more than an antiquated shuttle service across the Thames, from New Cross to just the other side of the river. The new service will run from Croydon in the south to Islington in the north and have better trains running more often. It's an entirely different proposition.
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For those looking at South East London, there is some interesting discussion of the housing market and information about the area on this community website...
House Prices Soar As East London Line Opens Up 'isolated' Areas Of The Capital
in House prices and the economy
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No, what I am saying is that the areas served by the East London Line now have a tube service and no longer have to go to London Bridge, which makes a big difference. That's the point of this whole thread. I only posted because people started saying that the ELL would make no difference. It has made a huge difference.