Friday, Jan 09, 2015

No money for NHS, but 42 billions in FLS to keep UK house prices high to allow Tory win in 2015

BBC News: A&E waits in England 'getting worse'

Waiting times in A&E units in England have got even worse in the New Year, figures show.
The last three months of 2014 saw performance drop to its lowest level for a decade with just 92.6% of patients seen in four hours.
The data for the week up to Sunday saw 86.7% of patients seen in four hours. The target is 95%.

Posted by hpwatcher @ 09:43 AM (3230 views)
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26 Comments

1. hpwatcher said...

Tory government happily starve the NHS and yet are quite happy to pump 42 billions, as part of the Funding for Lending scheme, into mortgages to allow a large increase in UK house prices over the past 2 years. All this to establish the false narrative of a recovery, to put them back in government in 2015.

Classic example of the self interest of UK politicians, some of whom are BTL landlords.

Friday, January 9, 2015 09:48AM Report Comment
 

2. mombers said...

Much of the increased demand has come from there being more old people, who consume a disproportionate amount of health care. Now we all know that the over 65s are sitting on billions of home equity, would it not be fair and efficient to take a portion of this unearned wealth and use it to bolster the NHS? No one is going to lose their job or business if a pensioner has to cough up extra property tax or sell, in stark contrast to bumping up VAT, NI, income tax, etc.

Friday, January 9, 2015 10:20AM Report Comment
 

3. khards said...

Working people who have been paying income tax over the last 6 months should be given priority over pensioners and benefit claimants.

Friday, January 9, 2015 10:25AM Report Comment
 

4. hpwatcher said...

Much of the increased demand has come from there being more old people, who consume a disproportionate amount of health care.

Um, so where have all these old people ''suddenly'' come from?

It's down to cuts, albeit around the edges, like the Ambulance service.

Friday, January 9, 2015 10:30AM Report Comment
 

5. britishblue said...

Mombers@2. Their argument back will be that they have worked all their lives and why should they subsidise the lazy youth and immigrants. Funny enough, I have a few young guys from abroad that work for me who never/ rarely use the NHS. I also have some very hardworking English 'lazy' youth who I unfortunately cant pay 80k a year too, which is what they would need as earnings to buy a small flat in our area.

Friday, January 9, 2015 10:34AM Report Comment
 

6. hpwatcher said...

I have a few young guys from abroad that work for me who never/ rarely use the NHS.

That's not surprising - they are young!

I also have some very hardworking English 'lazy' youth who I unfortunately cant pay 80k a year too, which is what they would need as earnings to buy a small flat in our area.

That is why foreign workers are happy to work for less - they have less idea of the ''real'' cost of UK living, moreover, they possibly don't wish to settle in the UK.

Friday, January 9, 2015 10:46AM Report Comment
 

7. mombers said...

@4 hpwatcher 'Um, so where have all these old people ''suddenly'' come from?'
It's been well known for DECADES that the population will be ageing at a rapid rate by now. No money was set aside for this, the model is that the working population paying for the pensions and healthcare of the retired. This obviously doesn't work if you have too many retired people per worker. The responsible, long sighted thing would have been for a fund to be built up to match easily calculated liabilities, like a private sector pension has to do by law. Instead, we're going to see more and more claims made on the working age population, suppressing economic activity and making the situation worse, until eventually some of the pension and healthcare promises made need to be repudiated. As a rough idea of the figures we're talking about, the state pension alone has a deficit of £2.2tn, i.e. a fully funded pension scheme would need that amount to pay everyone's pensions. The official debt is already £1.26tn so it's not like there's a magic stream of uncommitted future revenue that can be put towards paying these liabilities. Goodness knows what the future NHS liabilities for old people are.

Friday, January 9, 2015 01:17PM Report Comment
 

8. Brickit said...

Mombers@2. "would it not be fair and efficient to take a portion of this unearned wealth and use it to bolster"

Unbelievable statement.

To just take from someone who may have worked all there life, paying taxes? Is that fair?
To just take from someone who may have fought in WW2 to give us Freedom? Is that fair?

So this would apply to you if and when you own a property? Why stop at that, any other wealth you may have?

Friday, January 9, 2015 01:22PM Report Comment
 

9. hpwatcher said...

It's been well known for DECADES that the population will be ageing at a rapid rate by now

But that would have been more of a slow culmination; the A&E crisis we are seeing now is a feature of the past few months. It's related in part, to the increasing closure of doctors surgeries and government cutbacks.

Friday, January 9, 2015 02:01PM Report Comment
 

10. pete green said...

One of the big issues for the NHS is the inefficiencies being brought in due to private 'economic rent' extraction. I believe admin costs have gone from 5% to over 15% and are rising fast due to 'internal market reforms and 'privatization'.

There are many inefficiencies due to state monopolies, but also due to private rent seeking and these on balance are worse. We seam to have devised a system to get the worst in the present system. And the idea Doctors's Choice is a cruel Joke the profession is only now waking up to.

Rationing of health care is best left to the professionals and their clinical judgement

PFI and privatisation are nothing but a burden for the taxpayer and any efficiencies they have brought have been dwarfed by rent seeking and interest payments.

Friday, January 9, 2015 03:39PM Report Comment
 

11. mombers said...

@8 brickit I am 35 and do own a property. As a result of having to pay an enormous mortgage, I am committed to paying well over half a million pounds in income tax and national insurance until I'm 68. That is well in excess of what your average Baby Boomer paid in their lifetimes, even adjusted for inflation, and I can guarantee you that I will not get anything near the state pension that they are getting, and there is going to have to be serious rationing in the NHS. Since the old consume the majority of the NHS budget, it's going to be brutal. The sums simply don't add up. I would gladly accept paying any man woman or child who lived through WW2 more than they paid in in lieu of the incredible sacrifices they made but there are only a small and shrinking number of such heroes. There is no justification for the theft of working people's private property to finance the lavish retirements that are on offer now.

Friday, January 9, 2015 03:42PM Report Comment
 

12. hpwatcher said...

@8 brickit I am 35 and do own a property.

It's a great mystery to me, why so many homeowners post on this website. I'm guessing it's folks who started posting before buying and have kept up the habit.

Friday, January 9, 2015 04:49PM Report Comment
 

13. pete green said...

Is this not the crux of the debate to abandon the concept of having medical care rationed on a 'need' basis but allocated on ability to pay. If the Tories (and labour truth be told) get their way our health care system will get the population squabbling amongst themselves as to who are the 'deserving' and continue to turn the NHS into a corporate free for all of economic rent extraction with directorships for MP's and civil servants.

Friday, January 9, 2015 04:50PM Report Comment
 

14. hpwatcher said...

Is this not the crux of the debate to abandon the concept of having medical care rationed on a 'need' basis but allocated on ability to pay.

The crux is more whether government should squander billions to prop-up house prices, and by extension. themselves in power. Maybe it's just me, but I find that a thoroughly despicable act.

Friday, January 9, 2015 04:56PM Report Comment
 

15. pete green said...

Our obsession with house prices do indeed mean we are cutting services to the poor and needy to ensure a ever increasing slice of the pie goes to landowners and bankers. High house (really land) prices are the very crux of the bigger issue. But I feel the tipping piont will come as the gap widens between 'the haves and the have to rents' widen

With Healthcare we have a new breed of monopolists such as the American Health care firms bribing there way through the senior ranks of our Government for economic rent extraction at the expense of all our health in the future, on top of the landowners and bankers who are robbing us of jobs and real wealth creation and forcing our country into penury.

Friday, January 9, 2015 07:20PM Report Comment
 

16. Brickit said...

@12 hpwatcher

You have quoted me by saying"I am 35 and do own a property" in your post. I think you need to direct that @11 mombers.

Friday, January 9, 2015 08:17PM Report Comment
 

17. clockslinger said...

Mombers, "now we all know that the over 65s are sitting on billions of home equity, would it not be fair and efficient to take a portion of this unearned wealth and use it to bolster the NHS? No one is going to lose their job or business if a pensioner has to cough up extra property tax or sell, in stark contrast to bumping up VAT, NI, income tax, etc.". No, I'd rather have it off their greedy kids by imposing 100% IHT. You up for that then?

Friday, January 9, 2015 08:25PM Report Comment
 

18. Brickit said...

@11 mombers

I'm sure an ageing population has an effect on the NHS, and I wonder if immigration also has such effect?

I sense resentment to the Baby Boomer generation. As I mentioned before it is the government at that time and thereafter that control house prices, the Baby Boomer generation got lucky?

Friday, January 9, 2015 08:28PM Report Comment
 

19. khards said...

@12 hpwatcher - "It's a great mystery to me, why so many homeowners post on this website. I'm guessing it's folks who started posting before buying and have kept up the habit."

Assuming it goes through I will be joining the ranks of the bank renters again. It doesn't mean that I don't want lower house prices, It does not mean that I don't want the economy rigged in favor of the few.
I'm not taking a massive risk as it's a modest house in somerset, if Interest rates hit 10% and prices collapsed by 50% it wouldn't matter to me. I don;t intend of moving ever agin, I have moved 26 times and this will be 27 - The will carry me out in a box.

It's also the principal of it, just because someone owns a home it doesn't automatically mean bitter grapes (like our friend libby). Why should everyone else be ripped off by low interest rates and high house prices.
Within the next 10 years my mortgage will be paid off and I will be a saver once again, It would be nice if interest rates were on my side rather than at 0% and a loaf of value bread costing £15.

Friday, January 9, 2015 09:59PM Report Comment
 

20. libertas said...

Problem with the idea of using equity from pensioners to pay for NHS is that if they are cured, they need to live somewhere once discharged, oops, we just took their house, and no, most pensioners cannot pay rent nor are they able to re-mortgage to cover medical fees due to lack of forward income.

The problems we have are that we are not having enough children to maintain a stable population and, the NHS, by attempting to be free of the market place has ended up in the hands of lobbyists who push drugs that make people sick, and politically correct nutritional guidelines that cause widespread toxicity and malnutrition. Particularly low fat diets, which have created widespread deficiencies in vitamins A, D and K2 and that have pushed people towards toxic processed oils like margarine, veg oil, etc. plus, if you cut out fats you have to stuff yourself full of carbs, resulting in a grossly unbalanced diet, and the demonisation of cholesterol has in part led to the rise in strokes and dementia.

http://www.westonaprice.org/ for more info on all that.

Friday, January 9, 2015 10:04PM Report Comment
 

21. libertas said...

Another major issue with the NHS is that ANY European citizen can just waltz in and get treatment.

The EU wants to destroy the NHS because it hates the nation state providing for the people. It sees Westminster as competition for its hegemony and certain elements of Westminster have committed treason and sided with Brussel's dismantling of the NHS by flooding it with patients who do not necessarily pay taxes.

Friday, January 9, 2015 10:38PM Report Comment
 

22. Gorkov said...

In response to 2)
"Now we all know that the over 65s are sitting on billions of home equity, would it not be fair and efficient to take a portion of this unearned wealth and use it to bolster the NHS?"

I think you have lost touch with reality. As has this whole country.
Why should a simple person living in their only home (who has no intention to sell as its their last abode) pay some sort of tax that someone invented on a fictional price inflated by banksters and Landlords?
I don't own a house and probably never will, but just the idea that someone can come round to you and say, well now your house is worth 10 times more so cough up some tax. What?????
What if I don't value my home at that 10x fictional value? I agree to pay tax on the value I would sell my house for. You cant dictate to me to pay tax on your fictional value of what you decide my home is worth.
Also, go up to some jungle tribesman and tell him he has to pay tax because the scrap of land he lives on has gone up in value. You will realise how un-natural this concept is.
The only people who should potentially pay any kind of land tax are those who own more than one property used for the purpose of generating an income, ie Landlords.

Friday, January 9, 2015 10:43PM Report Comment
 

23. hpwatcher said...

Assuming it goes through I will be joining the ranks of the bank renters again.

Good luck with your purchase. It's amazing how many of the regular posters have now bought; the number who have yet to buy, and in fact still hold to the HPC narrative, must be very small indeed. That single fact may, or may not be significant.

Saturday, January 10, 2015 12:01PM Report Comment
 

24. khards said...

I have been visiting and posting on this blog and main forum since late 2005, I have only rented between 2011 and now which suited me fine as two years of that I was in Ireland.

In this market I don't think renting or buying are good options.

Saturday, January 10, 2015 05:10PM Report Comment
 

25. reticent said...

"In this market I don't think renting or buying are good options."

Too true.

Monday, January 12, 2015 03:46PM Report Comment
 

26. hpwatcher said...

"In this market I don't think renting or buying are good options."

What about moving back in with ones parents?

Tuesday, January 13, 2015 08:37AM Report Comment
 

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