Monday, May 9, 2011

Vince is on the loose, they must have forgotten to lock the door again.

Vince Cable revisits mansion tax as Lib Dem 'price'

Wealthy home owners could be taxed more as the price of keeping the Liberal Democrats happy within the Coalition. Vince Cable, the Lib Dem Business Secretary, yesterday said he wanted to look again at how such taxes could make it "fairer" for everyone. The Lib Dems are reeling from disastrous local election results in the first proper test of public opinion since the Conservative–Lib Dem coalition was formed a year ago. Mr Cable and Nick Clegg, the Lib Dem leader, yesterday gave television interviews attempting to set out what the party needed in order to remain willing partners.

Posted by khards @ 07:58 AM (1864 views)
Please complete the required fields.



20 thoughts on “Vince is on the loose, they must have forgotten to lock the door again.

  • uncle tom says:

    To paraphrase his own words, have you noticed Mr Cable’s remarkable transformation in the last few weeks from St Vince to Victor Meldrew?

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • From a voters perspective Vince has his heart in the right place, I wish more MP’s were like him.
    It is such a shame that he is locked away and brought out strategically for time to time. I would like to see Vince and Nick Clegg swap places.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • nickolarge says:

    The LibDems are in no position to ask for, let alone demand, any price for their continued membership of the coalition. The Tories know this. For that matter, everybody knows it.

    They are stuck with no way out even if they wanted one.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • cable had great cred then showed his true colours with this nonsense….taxing the super well off doesn’t help your average first time buyer or college graduate

    plain stupid

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • The Lib Dems should pack it in and let the Conservatives struggle to get things through as a minority government. They will be able to rebuild their party faster that way and the nation will definately be protected against the worst aspects of the Conservatives.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • mark wadsworth says:

    Taff, Vince’s problem is that he is a moderate Land Value Taxer, and he made compromise after concession after compromise and his plan was wittled down and down until all he was left with was the very tokenistic Mansion Tax.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • letthemfall says:

    One consequence of the local elections is that the Libdems probably feel they have little to lose. One cannot say they are in a strong position, but they are not exactly in a weak one either. The Conservatives need them to be able to govern effectively and thus they have some clout. There is a tension between the Con right-wingers, who are only interested in defending entitlement, and the reformers like Vince Cable. If the Libdems withdraw from govt (not out of the question), an election may not be far off.

    As for taxing the very wealthy, it makes eminent sense: they are after all more lightly taxed than people on average incomes. But mansion tax is rather piecemeal. Something more substantial like LVT is necessary, though I don’t expect to see it in a hurry.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • mark wadsworth says:

    LTF, as tactically incompetent as the Lib Dems have proven to be, their latest mantra was “OK, we’re happy to get rid of the 50p top rate, but in exchange we want our Mansion Tax”.

    If I were them I’d say that to anything e.g.
    “Yes we are happy to scrap Inheritance Tax, but in exchange we want to reduce the threshold for Mansion Tax” (down to about £300,000 so that it just ends up the same as having infinite council tax bands starting from “I”, for example).

    “Yes we are happy to scrap TV licence fee, but we’d like Council Tax/Mansion Tax receipts to go up by a tenth (i.e. up by £3 bn)”.

    “Yes, we are happy to scrap SDLT rates of 3% 4% and 5%, but in exchange we’d like to increase the Mansion Tax from 1.1% to 1.3%”

    “We’d like Iain Duncan Smith’s Citizen’s Pension to be increased from £150 to £200 per week, but we’d like Mansion Tax rate to go up from 1.3% to 1.6%” and so on.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • “As for taxing the very wealthy, it makes eminent sense: they are after all more lightly taxed than people on average incomes”

    True regarding taxes like VAT. Completely untrue regarding the much more important income tax (and a host of other taxes)

    Lower rate of income tax: 20%
    Higher rate of income tax: 50%

    Before you claim that higher tax rate payers evade tax, I’d like to point out that only a small proportion of rich people manage to evade income tax (easily proven). I’m willing to bet that a far higher % of lower income people evade tax. For example, cash has been requested by more than half the tradesmen I’ve used over the years

    50% of a large amount versus 20% of a smaller amount clearly equates to richer people being more heavily taxed than poorer people (as opposed to your claim that they are more lightly taxed).

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • the number cruncher says:

    What LTF says @ 7

    I think Vince has immense creditability in his party and the coalition is only surviving because of him keeping the Lib Dem cerebral lefties in line. But he is a man of real integrity and, as Clockslinger so elegantly pointed out on another thread yesterday, he is a helpless infant when it comes to the Realpolitik and is being eaten alive by the old hands in the Tories.

    He has set his heart on fair taxation and tried his best to get a ‘LVT lite’ system into place that is acceptable to all the parties. The compromises make it of little value and, the ‘rent seeking’ political lobbying classes will hate it. Just like AV it will die by a death of a thousand cuts from the malice of the right wing media machine and utter indifference and incomprehension of the stupid left.

    Still I cannot help but think if I was in his shoes I would be enjoying the same lack of success and scorn, and feeling like a thorough failure.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • mark wadsworth says:

    F, don’t confuse high taxation of people with [high] incomes with low taxation (in fact, net subsidisation) of the “land wealthy”. It’s just as relevant to complain about high taxation of people with low incomes and light taxation (in fact, subsidisation) of people who only own a small house.

    The 20% and 50% rates are a complete red herring, that ignores National insurance, VAT, means tested benefits, council tax, TV licence and certain tax breaks which mainly benefit richer people, so the overall picture is relatively flat (marginal tax rates between 40% and 60% for most people, for example).

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • orcusmaximus says:

    @LTF

    If the Libdems withdraw from govt (not out of the question)…

    Not going to happen. If you were a Libdem MP, would you withdraw from the govt, force an election, and then likely find yourself out of a job? Maybe Vince would, but your average MP will want to keep their snout in the trough for as long as possible.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • m: Income tax is the big one. It makes up roughly one third of all receipts and the receipts from income tax are far larger than the receipts from any other type of taxation.

    I am looking at a comprehensive schedule of all UK tax receipts as I type and I can balance off your list of less significant taxes with a long list of equally insignificant taxes that are proportionately born by the rich(er) more than they are by poor(e)r. Corporation tax also makes quite a significant contribution but whether or not it is born by the rich more than it is by the poor is a matter for philosophical debate. There are 22 million houses in the UK and no one should doubt that the owners of these houses have received favourable tax treatment over the years. However most of these house owners are not ‘rich’

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • mark wadsworth says:

    F, I for one have never seen a transition to LVT as part of some battle between “rich” and “poor”, I see it quite simply as a battle between “productive economy” and “landowners”. Hence my rules of thumb that under LVT, business activity and employment would be far more profitable, and there’s a fag packet rule that says winners and losers among households depend on ratio between the value of the house they live in and your current gross earnings is (say) seven.

    So man earning £1m a year gross in a £5m mansion would be better off; a man earning £20,000 in a £200,000 house would be worse off.

    As to marginal tax rates, I did the numbers here.. That chart just takes into account income tax, NIC, VAT and WTC withdrawal.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • Goweresque says:

    ‘So man earning £1m a year gross in a £5m mansion would be better off; a man earning £20,000 in a £200,000 house would be worse off.’

    And thats why LVT is manifestly unfair.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • m: Thanks for that. I’ll take a good look at it later on

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • letthemfall says:

    On tax evasion, it would appear that the worst culprits are large corporations, banks in particular, who are able to indulge in all sorts of schemes that reduce their bill. Of course this is called avoidance, but HMRC would not allow it if they could unpick the complexities that surround such measures. Wealthy individuals as we well know make good use of havens to hide their assets; there may be far fewer of them than the self-employed on the fiddle, but I wonder whether the amounts are greater. Presumably no one knows for sure, though I imagine there are estimates.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • ‘Tax avoidance’ is actually a misnomer. The government is perfectly capable of closing almost all loopholes on the spot. If hoardes of bloggers think they can ‘unpick’ what these people are up to, then the governments tax experts could do it blindfold.The government choses to leave these loopholes in place or even to create new ones because they want to offer back door inducements to these ‘tax avoiding’ corporations and individuals.

    We might disapprove of these back door inducements and we might even think that these ‘avoiders’ have nothing worth inducing but the ‘avoiders’ are only taking advantage of what the government quite deliberately wants to give them. In this (and the last) governments estimation, these ‘avoiders’ give us more than they take. In other words, the government calculates their total net contribution to be greater than it would have been if they hadn’t induced them with loopholes. That’s not necessarily my opinion but it’s what the government clearly thinks.

    We can’t even vote against these inducements/loopholes because the only other viable party clearly liked them too.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • the number cruncher says:

    Governments conform to the power structure that exist, it is not because they want to do this or that.

    Clearly both political parties are weak and cannot have real influence, we need to be able to vote for policy makes, not the policy takers, like what we have. Our ‘policy takers’ do not take policy from a democratic mandate or what is in the greater good, but from an appeasement of those that are able to bring to bare intimidation and reward.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



  • clockslinger says:

    Vince, bless. The great thing about watching Vince is that his apparently sound opinions on such matters is unfailingly shadowed by what can only be described as a political manifestation of the law of entropy. Well, entropy assisted by an aptitude for blunder not even approached by Norman Wisdom at the height of his powers, that is.
    Who would have argued with amputating a few of Murdoch and sons necrotic fingers as they close around what is left of alternative news sources in this sad land? No brainer, one might think. Big problem for Eaton old boys howevver. Future directorships in anything media related looking a bit less likely.. Glyndebourne and skiing not for free for this year? Leave it to Vince!
    What’s that now? Openly indicating you have a prejudged position on the issue?..Full frontal honesty? In front of some charming young female interns? (cunningly disguised “under cover” journalists no doubt). How could anyone have seen that coming when openly airing his deeply held views? It woz all in private, after all!
    Job Done! Coffee and knickers strewn everywhere couldn’t have made it any worse. No, sadly you could not make it up.
    Result? A very large and thorny Tory party problem, namely how to give the appearance of Murdoch having no influence over The Sun governments media policy, painlessly removed by Dr Cable! Few in politics display show such talent that even the word niave just doesn’t do it justice.
    Yet VC remains the great white hope of so many. That is the same “so many” who still believe we have a functioning democracy.
    Tragic stuff, indeed. C.Slinger Investments have indications from a source near the government that stately homes are certain to be the most tax efficient investment vehicle availible. Before the technical types spot the pattern developing remember… you read it here first.

    Reply
    Please complete the required fields.



Add a comment

  • Your email address is required so we can verify that the comment is genuine. It will not be posted anywhere on the site, will be stored confidentially by us and never given out to any third party.
  • Please note that any viewpoints published here as comments are user´s views and not the views of HousePriceCrash.co.uk.
  • Please adhere to the Guidelines

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes:

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>