Monday, October 18, 2010

Tax, Tax, Tax and more Tax – typical Labour

Johnson: Labour would continue to tax and spend

In his first major speech after Ed Miliband made the surprise decision to give Mr Johnson the Treasury brief, he said Labour would raise more from taxes than planned by the Coalition. The Opposition is now advocating a percentage split between cuts and tax rises of 60-40, having previously committed to 70-30. George Osborne, the Chancellor, will go further when he announces this week that spending cuts will make up around 70 per cent of the savings needed to tackle the deficit.

Posted by hpwatcher @ 02:51 PM (1864 views)
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60 thoughts on “Tax, Tax, Tax and more Tax – typical Labour

  • general congreve says:

    Am I allowed to say anything here? Or is it just the main forum where I’m no longer able to start topics or post?

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  • general congreve says:

    Oh good, looks like I am. Well in that case I do apologise for going off topic, but I’m afraid I’ll have to use the only opportunity I have left on this site to post a topic I started relating to unjustly deleted news articles today, seeing as my topic was removed from the entire forum 60 seconds after it was posted, not to mention my ability to post new topics or comment on the topics of others. Merely for complaining about censorship on HPC:

    “Amongst the other 10 or so articles posted today, there were two or three relating to news stories on gold, including one that came from Money Week and was basically carrying the message property BAD, gold GOOD, surely in line with HPC thinking one would think, even if you know little about the gold side of the story.

    A couple of posters got on the high horse about this and reported to the moderators, claiming ‘this is a site about house prices, there is no place for gold discussion here’.

    After the point was robustly made my several posters, myself included, that it has every place here, as house prices are related to every aspect of the economy, especially the safety of your savings and/or STR fund (hence the central case for gold as insurance against inflation, bank failure and currency devaluation) it seems the posts were pulled anyway.

    If these articles were posted by gold dealers touting their services, I’d be more than happy top agree they should be pulled as that would be ramping, but this was news articles from the WSJ (actually arguing the case against gold) and Moneyweek, FFS!

    Did I miss something? Has HPC just been bought up by the banks to be used as a tool to suppress online positive gold sentiment through censorship?

    Thanks for wasting everyone’s time who contributed to these articles this morning, I believe one got as many as 30 comments, not to mention the fact that over half of the posters were not against the posting of the articles. Thank you moderators, give yourselves a pat on the back.”

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  • sibley's b'stard child says:

    What happened GC; fallen foul of the latest ‘clear-out’?

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  • general congreve says:

    It would seem so. Did they get you too estrader?

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  • sibley's b'stard child says:

    Ah, now I see – perhaps you should have bunged the article in the precious metals sub-forum?

    The forum seems to go through a periodical clear-out of ‘undesirables’; don’t take it personally.

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  • general congreve says:

    Quite how I’m undesirable baffles me. We have gold bears (Realist Bear, Quiet Guy etc.) and we have gold bulls (me, estrader, goldbug999 etc.) and we have others that sit on the fence. The whole purpose of this site is to discuss and debate isn’t it. How does silencing one side of the discussion help anything?

    All too often the response from gold bears re: anything gold, is bubble, bubble, bubble. The gold bulls respond with reasoned arguments only to be met with silence, rather than a reasoned argument to back up their statements. It would seem the anti-gold sentiment is reactionary and not based on any real research of the topic. The banning of gold articles and topics being the ultimate form of knee-jerk reaction from those with no other way to argue their side in a debate.

    Apparently it’s still OK and seemingly relevant to HPC to post topics about sterling and the dollar though, but not metal forms of currency. Seriously, let me check my calendar, maybe I messed up my dates and it’s April 1st or something.

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  • How about them there ‘ouse prices ay? Imagine the social and economic impact.

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  • Looks like I am still here but my interest in this site has been more or less deleted along with everything else.

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  • I should also add that I’m sure some will be glad. Good luck to everyone except them…you know the ones I’m talking about!

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  • general congreve says:

    Personally I’m thinking of joining Zerohedge, but being American and dealing with this longer than we have they are pretty much all converts. Not a lot I can add there, although the articles and discussion is enlightening even for me.

    However, I’d prefer to try and get the message through to my fellow country men on HPC that this is more than about house prices and that their savings are at risk due to the circumstances. It seems some are interested, but a minority that wish to shout us down and get on their high horse seem intent on stopping us, zealots.

    Personally, I’ve never reported any article on this site and some of the topics have been way off the mark on many and occasion.

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  • general congreve says:

    Come on then, come out and justify yourselves, cowards, or are you too scared to come out from behind Mummy Moderator’s apron?

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  • sibley's b'stard child says:

    @ 2

    Ah, I thought you were alluding to the main forum (from which a few posters have been lost) but i’ve just noticed the blogs that have been deleted.

    Unfortunately GC, there’s not much you can do as you can’t question moderators’ decisions…

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  • surprised quiet guy isn’t complaining about this article

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  • general congreve says:

    @13 – It would seem so, as I found out immediately on raising the censorship issue for other HPCers to discuss in the main forum. I imagine it won’t be long before I get banned completely for having the audacity to raise the issue in the only place left open to me on this site.

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  • Perhaps he isn’t so quiet.

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  • general congreve says:

    @14 – was supposed to be a response to 12 not 13, apologies. Having trouble seeing through the red mist at the moment 😉

    @13 – Come on Quiet Guy, outside, NOW!

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  • maybe we should set up our own website

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  • general congreve says:

    @17 – Yeah, I suggest we call it FQG.

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  • bet he is the guy who asks for new soft goody goody laws to protect everyone with

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  • general congreve says:

    Bet he was one of those horrible little goody-two shoes kids at school everyone hated, you know the sort:

    “Ummmmm, I’m telling!”.

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  • general congreve says:

    OK, got to pop out for half an hour, expect I’ll be banned completely by the time I get back, so just in case, it’s been nice knowing you all, except you of course Quiet Guy, thanks a bunch.

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  • You too GC

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  • sibley's b'stard child says:

    I wouldn’t get too het-up about it; ultimately – assuming your position pays off – then you’re laughing all the way to the bank.

    A little bit of censorship is a minor inconvenience at worst.

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  • GC – I have no problem with the ramping – only that it gets a bit boring. Its clear you can play to the gallery because gold is quite fashionable at the moment. Of course it may get more and more fashionable before it becomes unfashionable.

    Still I think regardless of whether or not someone finds your posts boring, in my view you (along with everyone else) should be allowed to express an opinion. To be fair people could say the same about yours truly being boring – or anyone else for that matter. In other words that is subjective.

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  • general congreve says:

    @25 – Thanks for the support Techieman. But I have issue with the ‘ramping’ statement. It is a label often used by those that refuse to discuss gold. I’m not on here shouting ‘buy gold’ and leaving it at that. I, and my cohorts, extol the virtues of gold ownership within the overall context of the current economic conditions (house prices included) through reasoned debate. I feel that is a different animal to ramping. And consequently it is a travesty that we have been silenced.

    And as Sibley @24 eludes to, it’ll be of no difference to me in the end whether others heed my advice or not, I’m sorted. I don’t post on here for the good of my health, I post because I enjoy the cut and thrust of debate and have a genuine desire to open other people’s eyes for their own benefit.

    I would also say that gold as fashionable or unfashionable is a misnomer. We are not talking about jewellery demand, but investment demand due to economic circumstances. That has nothing to do with fashion and everything to do with economic survival.

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  • I agree GC

    no point in creating another site – why not just join titanic captain at his economicvoice

    I keep meaning to give it more time (rather than HPC) for the reasons you give above

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  • erm GC – i think you will find i mean fashionable as in popular! :).

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  • The point i was making is the “buy gold” argument has been pretty much done to death. So i dont think you have been silenced in that way at all. Surely by now people that have heeded your “advice” will have heeded it anyway, which is why it gets a bit boring.

    I am sure there are those that want to see you and the gold bulls fall flat on their ar5e – such is the nature of people. Especially those who dont have any! I for one genuinely wish you luck with it.

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  • GC : “have a genuine desire to open other people’s eyes for their own benefit. “ – we are all adults here – (although I suppose you could argue against that statement) . Therefore that statement (and I don’t think you mean it this way) really is hugely patronising.

    I think that plus your normal “got gold” is what gets people’s backs up.

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  • “Unfortunately GC, there’s not much you can do as you can’t question moderators’ decisions…”

    You would have to question their intelligence, or lack of. On a site like this which is sponsored by advertising and not membership, it is ‘clicks’ that count and not self-righteous opinions. Anyone with half a brain could see that nobody posting has an agenda. The only people who have an agenda are those who seek to ban others from posting what they feel is relevant to the ‘ethos’ of this site.

    ” It seems some are interested, but a minority that wish to shout us down and get on their high horse seem intent on stopping us, zealots.”

    Welcome to England. This is why the place is in such a mess… The minority who think they know what is best for the majority…condescending arrogant toads.

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  • general congreve says:

    @28 – Fair enough Techie.

    @29 – Done to death? I think a fair few people have been banging on about an HPC for a bit longer than I’ve been discussing gold. Not to mention I do post on other subjects regularly, I’m not a one trick pony, as some would like to frame me.

    @30 – Is this site not for the benefit of informing the masses that HPI is undesirable and to prepare for the oncoming HPC. How is this any less patronising than informing people that there is a massive problem with insolvent banks, insolvent governments and the increasingly shaky fiat currency they force upon their populations? I have not patronised anyone, merely informed them through reasoned debate. If anything it’s the anti-gold crew who are patronising with all their simplistic bubble talk and cries to the moderator to get legitimate economic discussion banned. Maybe you’re right and my occasional the ‘Got Gold’ tag line doesn’t wear well, mind you I haven’t had a complaint about it yet.

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  • general congreve says:

    @31 – Well said, that man.

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  • @Mark

    You posted something making a ‘joke’ at the expense of Flashman and The Number Cruncher. I complained and the article was pulled. Hard cheese!

    @General Congreve

    “Come on Quiet Guy, outside, NOW!”

    I don’t blog at work except sometimes at lunchtime.

    Regarding todays postings cull, either the web admin decided to scan the days posting after dealing with Mark’s little faux pas or somebody else complained about gold; I don’t know which. FWIW, I have never complained about a gold posting on HPC. Try to remember that this site is a commercial venture for Fubra and they don’t owe any of us anything. I’m not trying to get rid of you but you can’t set the rules of the game here – only the admins do that.

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  • general congreve says:

    @36 – Well I can’t cross reference any of this due to the fact the articles pulled. I’d greatly appreciate it if you could remind me what the ‘joke’ was, in order that we can see if the response was justified and therefore the topic and post ban placed on me for complaining about censorship is also justified?

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  • @General Congreve

    The joke was to say that Flashman and The Number Cruncher are gold fanatics (or some similar words.)

    Neither of them seem to be interested in Au and Flashman has complained loudly in the past about people making references to him in postings that are sarcastic and/or irrelevant. Humour is difficult to judge and making references to other bloggers in the title is the next thing to bullying. Perhaps the admin went into Terminator mode and you got caught in the crossfire? I dunno.

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  • general congreve says:

    @38 – Hmmmm, so all this stemmed from some low level sarcasm, hardly unheard of on this site and nothing like bullying in my book. I should know, I get subjected to plenty on here, you don’t see me running off to the moderators, do you?

    It appears you took it upon yourself to report this ‘heinous crime’ of sarcasm and as a result three relevant threads, that several people had spent their mornings diligently contributing to, got pulled and then I got banned from posting in the topic section for having the audacity to complain about it (probably permanently I assume).

    Thanks Quiet Guy, thanks a lot.

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  • “GC – Done to death? I think a fair few people have been banging on about an HPC for a bit longer than I’ve been discussing gold.” – ok well before you arrived there was some lively discussion about Gold, thats why i say “done to death”. Basically you are a bit of a johnny come lately on the virtues of the yellow stuff…. but fair dues you have rekindled some debate so for that reason alone it is probably worth having some Gold Bulls on here. Incidentially i count myself amoungst the gold bulls and was a scale up buyer in 2001-3 [i.e. when it wasnt fashionable]. I got rid (and said so on here) of a fair chunk around the 1030 level in March 2008. I have a fair bit left, but wont be adding to it. I have also had a couple of trades long and short that i have mentioned here in the PM complex…. and both went t1ts up :).

    In any case – this IS a HPC site so why shouldnt people be banging on about it here? Its this places raison d’etre…. n’est ce pas?

    As for being patronising I cant see your position that the statement quoted wasnt as tenable. I mean look at it this way, if a bear came on here and said : “careful chaps really the floor is going to fall out of the gold market – i am only telling you all this to genuinely open your eyes for your benefit – not for mine i mean ive sold all mine and made an absolute killing” then wouldnt you think that patronising? I think yes! As i said i doubt very much you meant it in that way, but to then turn my comment into an attack on the bears seems to me to be going a little too far. We all have an opinion, maybe in agreement maybe in opposition,… thats called a market [now you may think thats patronising but it wasnt – see easy to do isnt it!] 🙂

    Anyway what is HPWs post about anyway ?

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  • I say no to gold, or any ramping articles. Too many gold articles appear amongst good HPC articles.

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  • “Thanks Quiet Guy, thanks a lot.”

    You should take responsibility for your posts. BTW, I doubt you are banned forever – more likely in the sin bin for a while.

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  • general congreve says:

    @40 – Surely arguing one side of a debate isn’t patronising, it’s just opinion. I know I said I post for the benefit of other people, but surely that’s why we’re all sharing our views on here, for the benefit of others to read them and form their own opinions based on reasoned argument. I never talk down to people on here, always use reason, unlike some of the playground politics I see from others.

    @41 – Indeed, I say no to any articles on ‘The Spending Review’, it’s unrelated to house prices in a direct context and while it is easily argued it is related in the bigger economic picture I still say NO, I only want to discuss house prices in the most simplistic of terms, otherwise my head hurts.

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  • general congreve says:

    @42 – Wasn’t my post that got reported, it was purely my ‘mistake’ of raising the issue that three articles were pulled due to some mild sarcasm in one thread. Nothing to see here, move along.

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  • GC @ 43 – ok, all i am saying is just be careful. No one can see your intent. It was “for your benefit” that i think is a bit iffy. its not whether you are a bull or a bear thats the issue – its the way you expressed your view. As i said having an opinion is IMO 🙂 fine.

    In all speculative endeavours things that look like a sure thing often arent, i mean you have no idea some people may have got a loan to buy some gold based on the one way bet. Sure it may carry on ramping up, or it may collapse or (more likely) it will suffer a large sell off at some stage ( maybe to consolidate before a new leg up or maybe to come off) which will then leave people thinking…. oh what shall i do now???

    Whether you meant to be patronising or not isnt the issue. I am less than sensitive about this stuff to be honest but that really did make me go ouch!

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  • Re the article – Alan Johnson is a patsy… shame cause i normally like him, but really you do need someone with some economic background in the position.

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  • general congreve says:

    @45 – OK, I’m losing the will to fight about this patronising thing. We’ll leave it at that. As for people taking out loans to buy gold, I don’t know of anyone who has done that and I’m not sure how that comes into the story? I for one have never advocated people taking out a loan to buy gold and never would. My stance has purely been one of protecting savings with and STR funds through buying some gold to hedge against the risks to sterling, with the added benefit that the move could also provide big speculative gains if things really go t1ts up, as I believe they will and have argued in a reasoned manner in my contributions to this site.

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  • general congreve says:

    @47 – Fair enough, I’ll be man enough to say that was an honest mistake then. I was under the impression you were a bear because you reported the article and I was struggling to remember the names of any other bears to use an an illustration in my argument.

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  • i posted a gold article about the fed considering selling it off

    in the title i stated

    “one for flashy, number cruncher and gold fanatics” which was nothing serious and a little joke between flashy and myself regarding the handbags at dawn with another gold article with number cruncher and flashy

    nothing to concern quiet guy with nor was it a good reason to report it and accuse me of posting another article i never did to which i responded with my usual how dare you and quiet guy has a hissy fit pathetic can you not enjoy the banter during these dark days of deep recession?

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  • quiet guy i have a question for you

    who made you into the web police?

    you clearly had no respect for me when you accused me of posting an article I never did, ok you admitted it later, but you jump before you think , the people in here like to banter, like to draw handbags at dawn and above all highly intelligent, you on the other hand can’t seem to accept we love to banter, even if it is in public nothing wrong with that. You have also made a lot of people angry for what you did.

    thats all i am going to say.

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  • CG @ 48 – oh dear… well it takes all sorts i ‘spose. Shame you cant see it but still.. Good luck with the gold.

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  • general congreve says:

    @50 – Oh yeah, that’s what happened. Very annoyed with Quiet Guy. This is all totally stupid and unnecessary.

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  • general congreve says:

    Seems my ‘Topic posts’ are getting monitored, as my earlier test posts appearing some time after they’ve been posted. So I have a voice, just not a free one that can participate in a discussion in real time.

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  • GC big houseprice brother is watching you lol

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  • general congreve says:

    The injustice has been righted! Well partially at least, I am able to post on Topics again, thank you Doccyboy! I should mention Doccy Boy (moderator) told me:

    THEY ARE IN NO WAY AGAINST GOLD DISCUSSION ON THIS FORUM.

    There you go, it is SETTLED. Let battle recommence 🙂

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  • @general congreve

    “THEY ARE IN NO WAY AGAINST GOLD DISCUSSION ON THIS FORUM.”

    Fine by me. I trust DoccyBoy wasn’t referring to the forum instead of the blog?

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  • first thing in morning gold posts galore

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  • aaaarrrggghhh! It’s a house price crash forum! Not a gold price crash forum (yet).

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  • general congreve says:

    @57 – He was referring to the site in full.

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  • little professor says:

    Congreve – I didn’t report you, but I saw the ‘article’ you posted this morning and would have reported it if I had had the time. It was nothing but a gold-ramping advertorial, not a news article. Thus it fails on two counts – not being related to house prices, and not being news. You might want to have a think about why you insist on posting such articles to a house price news blog.

    There are plenty of other outlets on the internets for you to spam your gold-ramping. Try Alex Jones’ forums or Rapture Ready. I’m sure you’ll be welcomed with open arms into their fold.

    Bye!

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  • Perhaps it’s best to give the gold related articles a rest CG; most advertisements are boring to read.

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  • general congreve says:

    @61 and @62 – I suggest you read the thread. I didn’t post any articles yesterday, let alone a ‘gold-ramping’ thread. In fact I rarely post articles at all. It was Mark who legitimately posted an article from MONEYWEEK that related to the fact that they believe:

    a) Property will take a dive
    b) The Euro will take a dive
    c) The FTSE will take a dive
    d) The Bond market will take a dive

    They suggested the follwing ways to protect yourself:

    1. Buy high-yielding shares
    2. Buy defensive stocks

    And lastly, right at the bottom of the article:

    3. Buy SOME gold.

    Those are the facts that caused this stupid situation. I am not impressed with the person who reported it, it was out of order, just as the moderator agreed. The only reason the article was pulled is because articles are reported to FUBRA, whereas Topics are reported directly to HPC Moderators who know what this site is about.

    @61 – LP, you know Alex Jones, while sometimes having valid points, is largely a sensationalist crank, I have no interest in his sites.

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