Thursday, September 16, 2010

As per title really

Nick Clegg defends radical benefits cuts

518 comments; those champagne socialists are positively foaming at the mouth. Lots of back-slapping all round from the Upper Street chattering-classes.

Posted by sibley's b'stard child @ 01:59 PM (1928 views)
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20 thoughts on “As per title really

  • If truth be told, the LibDem rank and file really hate being in government – most of them didn’t get into politics to defend the government of the day – they just want to whinge from the sidelines..

    ..and when they make a dog’s breakfast of running a local council, their stock defence has always been to blame central govt – and they can’t do that now either..

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  • mark wadsworth says:

    IDS is being lied to left right and centre.

    Don’t forget that the running costs of DWP are about £9 billion and there fraud, error and overpayments of at least £5 billion, so if they can cut that by half, they’ve already saved £7 billion without any ‘honest’ claimant losing out.

    How do we do this? By adopting IDS’ “Universal Credit/Single Unified Taper” approach. Most of the real big fraud is from multiple identities and Housing Benefit overclaims – so simplifying it has got to cut down on this.

    Now, if the Laffer maximising tax rate on employment income is about 60% and employer’s NIC is 12.8%, the Laffer maximising rate of benefit withdrawal (i.e. the Single Unified Taper) must be about 50%, which can be easily dealt with via the PAYE system by giving welfare claimants K codes for PAYE.

    Simples.

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  • Nothing to do with me.

    A ukip voter.

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  • the number cruncher says:

    UT @ 1

    Utter right wing claptrap – sorry but you are showing a very narrow partisan attitude and finding simple augments to rubbish those with a differing point of view. How on earth do you, or anyone else, know what the liberal rank and file want or believe and how awfully convenient for you to parcel their views into a box you can devalue and ignore.

    The truth is that they do not want the policies that Nick Clegg has agreed to – plain and simple

    The lib dems who are brave enough to forward and agenda of LVT and real economic reform need to stand up, and some are starting to do that.

    Once again the poorest in society pay for the greed of those that have the power to rigg the system in their favour

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  • tnc,

    So after years of proclaiming the benefits of PR and coalition government, the LibDems are suddenly getting all huffy with the leader they elected, just because he’s done what they’ve always championed.. – oh dear..

    Sorry, but I’ve had years of experiance dealing with this pathetic, spineless, opportunistic and unprincipled low life that pretends to be a political movement..

    I may disagree with socialists, but at least I can respect their point of view and debate issues with them..

    The LibDems always have a different point of view depending on who they’re talking to..

    – Shamelessly duplicitous..

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  • All claimants should be given community work to do in order to qualify for their benefits. Do ’em good to get out of their beds’ in the mornings.

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  • Arthur Kinnell says:

    Have to agree with Uncle Tom. I have no idea what the Liberals stand for, and now, I suspect, neither do they. Cameron has played them like a hooked fish, Clegg is bedazzled, Cable seems to be sliding into depression, Simon Hughes is already there, and David Laws, the only one willing or tough enough to stand up to them was torpedoed by the Daily Telegraph, to be replaced by wassname, thingy, you know, the big soft bloke. The Liberals are the political equivalent of agnostics, stuck permanently in some sort of nowhere land. They will always represent the other fourteen percent.

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  • @5
    well, you got it right.

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  • The £5Bn potential savings is a drop in the ocean compared to the estimated annual tax fraud of £50Bn+.

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  • About £50Bn is lost each year in tax fraud.

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  • That’s overegging the cake old son, it’s more like £15bn per annum. Link – CityWire

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  • the number cruncher says:

    Benefit fraud about £1 billion
    Benefit errors and cockups about £4 Billion
    Tax evasion about £15 Billion (quantifiable estimate, probably a lot more – so Phil’s figure could be more accurate)
    Tax avoidance £100’s of Billion’s (very hard to estimate so real figure could be wildly different)

    Who’s the real criminals – yet again it is the very rich who are the real criminals in society and not the poorest.

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  • Taxation is a very big subject – you could start with criticism/evaluation of tax policy often discussed here (e.g. why tax the real economy when you could tax land values?). Leaving that aside there’s the question of multinationals’ globalised accounting where taxable profits fall between the cracks between countries. Then some economists argue that non-taxed monies go back into the economy and get taxed in some other way ( a weak argument IMHO). Still, cracks between countries is a massive tax evasion/avoidance scam of proportions that make benefit fraud look puny. Clue – why is the rich-poor gap widening so fast? The number cruncher’s figures make sense to me.

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  • @nc,

    Who is the real criminals – that will really depends on your point of view.
    If one is on the left and believe that all man and women are properties of the state and it is with the state’s grace that they are allowed
    to keep some of their earnings, then of course the rich who ‘avoided’ tax are the bad guys.

    If one is on the right and believe that each man and women are free individuals and the redistribution part of the taxation system
    is nothing but theft, then the first 2 in your list would been the true bad guys.

    Also, it depends what tax avoidance means really… putting money in ISA is of course tax avoidance but I am pretty sure many on the rights take advantage of this concession. Not to arrange one’s affairs to pay maximum amount of tax is probably tax avoidance as well, but pretty sure many champagne socialist would do that without any guilts.

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  • I pointed out years ago that if you had your residential address in one EU country, your bank accounts in a second, and your official place of employment in a third, and rang the changes every six months; you could avoid paying any tax almost indefinitely..

    That’s one way the uber rich play the system, and a good reason for calling time on the EU.

    But on the domestic circuit, for those who can’t afford expensive international accountants, who do the revenue chase?

    They don’t chase lower income cheats, because the return on their efforts is too low, and instead harrass higher earners, many of whom have done nothing wrong; but find themselves forced to pay huge fees to accountants that they can’t recover, just to prove their innocence..

    The bottom line is that the system is far too complex. Taxation needs to be simple, equitable and unavoidable, – but also minimal..

    Anyone for TEA – UK style..?

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  • the number cruncher says:

    easybetman @ 10

    Your augment is simplistic drivel and you need to look behind such notions of what divides right and wrong and simplistic measures of Fabian redistribution.

    It takes a whole society to allow you to earn money. What makes you think that you do not owe society for creating the environment for you to benefit from you labour?

    Go and live on a desert island, with out any benefits of society and see how far your earning potential gets you – rapid malnutrition and metal breakdown will be your only rewards.

    The real questions we should ask is how we end up in the starting positions we do before we embark on the ‘free trade’ of our lives.

    Who owns all the assets and especially the land?
    how did they come by this?
    How does our legal system promote the formation of monopolies and their intergenerational propagation?
    How do people manipulate the legal and political system for their own advantage?
    how do groups manipulate the legal and political system for their own advantage?

    These factors create most of the wealth and income disparities in life and not just our earning potential.

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  • @ easybetman – that argument assumes that the state is largely outside the economy and enters it just to tax and redistribute. Another view would be that the state is at the heart of the economy (like it or not), that corporate lobbyists influence policy in their favour and that behind every great fortune there is a public policy decision.

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  • What Icarus says. Nobody approves of tax evasion, so let’s just have the one tax that is almost impossible to avoid, i.e. LVT. If you don’t like paying so much tax, then move to a smaller or cheaper house or take in a lodger. Or move abroad and commute to work if you so wish.

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  • @TNC

    “Utter right wing claptrap ” and “Your augment is simplistic drivel”

    What makes your left of centre views so morally correct?

    If you look logically at the current mess in the UK, it’s the “silent majority” (regardless of being left or right wing) who are being shafted yet again by the parasites in the banking sector and politicians of all hues.

    These are the people you should be railing against, forget Thatcher, she quit 20 years ago next month and there have been legions of avaricious bas**rds dipping their snouts in the trough since then.

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  • In fact giving unemployed scoungers money is a very bad idea, they only spend it on fags and booze. Much better to give them food & clothing vouchers.

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