Sunday, Nov 01, 2009

This should do the trick.

The Times: Gordon Brown plans new spending splurge

GORDON BROWN is planning a final public spending spree to help pull the economy out of recession and put pressure on the Conservatives over their plans for deep cuts.
The prime minister is keen to use the autumn pre-budget statement to announce a new “fiscal stimulus”, with billions of pounds of extra money for housing, infrastructure projects and training.
Recent figures showing that Britain is still in recession have convinced Brown that more spending will be required next year to support any faltering recovery

Posted by devo @ 08:51 AM (2482 views)
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66 Comments

1. Desertorchid said...

This is an horrifying thought as pointed out in comments:

"Just had a horrible thought. Brown/ Labour are going on a spending splurge running up more debt. The Tories win the next election. Then Brown gets a job with the IMF/World Bank, as has been suggested. If things go wrong for the Tories they may have to go to the man who caused the financial disaster to help bail the country out."

Sunday, November 1, 2009 09:15AM Report Comment
 

2. will said...

More QE will pull the economy up only as long as the money lasts, but when it runs out reality will set in. People of this country have stopped spending because of the previous buying binge over the last few years. Now they will have to pay it all back, and that will include Gordon Brown's efforts to cook the books.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 09:25AM Report Comment
 

3. crunchy said...

No matter how much “fiscal stimulus" Brown allocates to housing and infrastructure it will be cancelled out by future "immigration stimulas"

No wonder BNP gets such a hard time.

Free speech!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 09:58AM Report Comment
 

4. Desertorchid said...

Rather disturbing scenario put forward in comments:

"Just had a horrible thought. Brown/ Labour are going on a spending splurge running up more debt. The Tories win the next election. Then Brown gets a job with the IMF/World Bank, as has been suggested. If things go wrong for the Tories they may have to go to the man who caused the financial disaster to help bail the country out."

Sunday, November 1, 2009 10:15AM Report Comment
 

5. This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

 

6. crunchy said...

Free speech!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 10:27AM Report Comment
 

7. crunchy said...

3. the number cruncher

Your good buddies, past and present, Blair and Brown should be of far more concern to you.

Again, Free speech!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 10:52AM Report Comment
 

8. James said...

As Labour yet not learnt that we need an ECONOMIST making these types of decisions and not some ignorant bloke whoose read a Book by Adam Smith and thinks he's know about economics.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 10:52AM Report Comment
 

9. letthemfall said...

Free speech is not the same thing as licence to say whatever you like.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 11:05AM Report Comment
 

10. mountain goat said...

It's simple, GDP becomes a positive number if we spend more by borrowing more. Then we will not be the only G7 country left in recession and all the wise City economists can rightly claim that this recession was just a small blib in the greatest economic miracle the world has never seen. I did all this, I proved you hp bears wrong, I saved the world and I saved all those lovely banksters too big to jail. Even a child can understand this, the very children who will bless me for these great actions for years to come.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 11:09AM Report Comment
 

11. letthemfall said...

There is a touch of irony in all this. The Conservatives, once again marketing themselves as the only party who can manage the economy, will very probably, as in 1979, deepen the recession with their cuts. This will push house prices down, which from the point of view of most of us here, is a good thing. But as ever, it will be the lower paid who are hit hardest.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 11:14AM Report Comment
 

12. crunchy said...

6. letthemfall Censor free speech? You have lived in the UK for too long.

"Freedom is being able to say what others don't want to hear."

George Orwell.

Blair and Brown love you as much as they do Iraqi's and our own soldiers that are dying everyday.

BNP are whimps. Free speech!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 11:30AM Report Comment
 

13. letthemfall said...

crunchy, I didn't use the word censor. Nevertheless, no one has the right to say exactly what they like (and I hardly need offer examples). The right of free speech comes with a reponsibility to exercise it with care. Orwell never advocated licence.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 11:38AM Report Comment
 

14. techieman said...

Inciting or enticing people to do anything - including criminal acts - by them being able to say what they want should be allowed because people have the freedom to say what they like.

Its then the people that follow them are guilty because no-one forced em to do it...

Is that REALLY what is being proposed? As in all these issues there is no black and white, but various shades of grey.

In this micro climate on this site people can say what they like so long as its not ridiculous and doesnt stop others expressing their own view. What is "ridiculous" though?

People have a right to agree or disagree - surely trying to shut them up by implying they dont have a right to postulate an argument against what a contributor says is itself a restriction of "free speech".....

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:12PM Report Comment
 

15. crunchy said...

10. letthemfall....... I have not said anything offensive but purely stated my observations, and some hard facts.

Sorry thet you have problems with hearing those. Not my fault.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:14PM Report Comment
 

16. mystie010 said...

Sorry to wade in here guys, but when people feel they can't say what they want then that is when resentment builds. This country has been far too PC for far too long - and the result is when the extremists get in. 'Sticks and Stones may break bones but calling won't hurt.' Or at least not as much as a far right extremist government. To me free speech and total free speech is the lesser of two evils. I'm sick of being told what I can and can't say and to whom I can say it, so too are a lot of other people and sadly look at what is happening. Bring back free speech!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:19PM Report Comment
 

17. mystie010 said...

Anyhow what has free speech got to do with this topic anyway???

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:20PM Report Comment
 

18. the number cruncher said...

Crunchy @5 - I expect more than a 'straw man' augment from you

Blair and brown are not my buddies and I will criticise them as they deserve it.

Please do me the honour of criticising my posts for the actual content and not the fantasy that is made up in your head to devalue or nullify my augments.

I am a huge supporter of free speech and I will fight for your right to say what you will. As I have every right to call supporters of the BNP fascist racists who are the greatest political danger to we are facing today. I also would say it is the duty of every decent person in this land to oppose the BNP and fight them with all means if they ever look like gaining political power.

Free Speech!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:22PM Report Comment
 

19. phdinbubbles said...

@15 TNC
Hear Hear

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:28PM Report Comment
 

20. mystie010 said...

the number cruncher @ 15 Good comments about the BNP (agreed) but you have to ask yourself the question why is this far right party becoming so successful? It would be much easier to crush the cause of their rise in popularity than to evict them once in power. Something is fuelling their rise, if you tackle the root cause then you will see them disappear. Britain is broken as we all know here and the rise in extremism helps to highlight this. I think if 'Political Correctness' was banned and became the dirty word it should be, then that would be a good starting point.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:29PM Report Comment
 

21. techieman said...

mystieo10 - i am confused.
Using the emotive immigration topic as an example you can argue that there is too much or not enough or its about right. You can then back that up with some sound argument if you want.

However what you can do is entice people to do something about it - to illustrate that no-one should be able to advocate genocide on that basis. Wasnt ethnic cleansing concerned with the implementation of free speech in the first instance?

I think you are confusing 2 different issues. I am not the least bit pc, and am happy to being called whatever name someone wants to call me - thats (particularly if they dont know me ) more a reflection on them than me anyway.

The problem with your argument is that there is never total free speech, where there needs to be in dictator regimes. Look at Zimbabwe, - do white farmers have a platform, Nazi Germany - did the jews have a platform? I'm with the number cruncher. If there is a choice between being too PC and having carte blanche to say whatever you like, i go for the former. Of course the "greyness" is what is "too pc" and what is the boundary for saying what you like.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:31PM Report Comment
 

22. techieman said...

sorry "However what you can do " should say "However what you can't do"

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:34PM Report Comment
 

23. letthemfall said...

crunchy
But I haven't taken offence.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:36PM Report Comment
 

24. mystie010 said...

techieman thanks for your comments I am just trying to think of reasons why there is a rise in the far right. There has to be some reason why they are gaining so much ground and I think Political Correctness has a lot to do with it. It's just an observation.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:43PM Report Comment
 

25. crunchy said...

Ok you lovely people, continue.

I liked that "little" bit tech. It made me chuckle. Free speech only hurts when it contain an uncomfortable truth.

I will let you carry on without me. Feel free, as I know a lie from a truth. : )

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:45PM Report Comment
 

26. techieman said...

mystieo10 - why the far right gain credibility is the same reason why there will be a rise in protectionism if we are to get austere times. That is people find it easy to apportion blame as to why they have lost their job (for example). That manifests in labelling people as non British. Its a smokescreen. We have sucked in labour using credit to create the boom, and then as soon as their is a contraction we want to blame the people who came over. Its like the blacks in the 50s all over again - we asked them to come to do our dirty work and since then we don't integrate them and then wonder why they want to "fight back"?

British jobs for british workers is a slogan that belongs in days gone by. We are in at the very least a European state where we (i.e. the british governemt as representatives of the people) have chosen to allow freedoms (including freedom of movement) within the state. We really cant have it both ways and blame "johnny foreigner" when things go wrong.

Personally i have never believed in us joining the Euro, for economic reasons but thats another story.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:52PM Report Comment
 

27. techieman said...

"Feel free, as I know a lie from a truth. : )" but clearly not your ar5e from your elbow!

Couldnt resist that bit of free speech meself!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:54PM Report Comment
 

28. letthemfall said...

I would suggest it is inequality that helps support far-right politics. The blame focuses on a certain group of people and the hard-done-by grab at this. A simple answer appeals to many.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:54PM Report Comment
 

29. stillthinking said...

the "credible plan" for dealing with uk debt just seems further and further away whenever you read anything. I had a friend once, who used to persistently blatantly lie whenever there was no method of actual 100% lie uncovery. this completely ignored the fact that people just skipped to not believing anyway.

There is not going to be any repayment plan under the Labour government. Time to stop listening. We will get one more deflationary wave early next year, all write-offs naturally covered by the taxpayer, and then disaster.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:58PM Report Comment
 

30. techieman said...

LTF - absolutely agree with you.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 12:58PM Report Comment
 

31. This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

 

32. wdbeast said...

techieman@23 Spot on.

techieman@24, or indeed his nom de plume.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:08PM Report Comment
 

33. shipbuilder said...

letthemfall - I agree. Politicians of all views have shown themselves to be out of touch, untrustworthy and more inclined to spin than give a straight answer. With their expensive suits and PR-trained patter, they could not seem more remote to the ordinary member of the public. Then we see the banks being bailed out with our money and face nothing but smug patronising and arrogance as to the reasons why. Meanwhile in the real UK, people are losing their jobs and seeing cutbacks everywhere.
The BNP give the public a simple answer which other politicians have utterly failed to do. Meanwhile in articles in the press lamenting the state of the UK and attacking chavs, dole scroungers and political correctness, the very same mentality is reinforced day after day - here's the target you should be aiming your anger at.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:20PM Report Comment
 

34. phdinbubbles said...

If you listen to the people that support the BNP, their main concerns are usually ( and understandably, like most people) about their jobs and homes. They perceive the cause of their difficulties to be immigrants taking jobs and living in scarce houses (but who can blame them when politicians and VIs tell us all the time that high house prices exist because of housing shortages - and let's face it, politicians don't see high house prices as a problem and would sell their grannies into prostitution to keep prices rising). I agree with LTF - inequality is the cause of the rise of the far-right and misdirected blame is the result, which is then exploited by the psychos in the BNP for their own advancement and gratification.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:22PM Report Comment
 

35. chrisa said...

Rather than worrying about the BNP and Nick Griffin you should really be more concerned about the fact that the fascists are ALREADY IN POWER. The same fascists that took this country into illegal wars only a few years ago and are quite happy (along with the Tories) to install a surveillance society. There is very little difference between NeoLabour and the BNP. Both are SOCIALIST parties, with the BNP being a National Socialist party and Neo Labour an Internationalist Socialist party.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:30PM Report Comment
 

36. shipbuilder said...

Here's Noam Chomsky on the very subject, from a talk which I had the pleasure of attending -

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/belfast-festival/reviews/chomsky-why-far-right-must-be-challenged-14546372.html

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:31PM Report Comment
 

37. shipbuilder said...

Chrisa - So do you mean that the Tories are also socialists and presumably George Bush as well?

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:33PM Report Comment
 

38. Magol said...

Our prime minister John Law is addicted to "just a little" more stimulus, a little more QE.

Real wealth creation comes from the real economy not printing presses and government giveaways. Government should create a stable foundation for the real economy thorugh consistency of law and fiscal prudence, not errect an imbalanced and gargantuan Whitehall upon a quagmire of debt.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:48PM Report Comment
 

39. phdinbubbles said...

@31 Chrisa
You've regenerated more times than the Doctor now.

I liked your comment the other day:

"Here we go again. Bootle reveals his true colours. The guy is a fully paid up member of the One World Globalisation NWO brigade. No doubt he means the IMF as the worlds central bank, how lucky then that Brown and the other NWO clones recently managed to acquire massive new funding for the IMF presumeably to enable it to do this new role when it happens.

People were warning years ago that all this was going to happen on the back of a manufactured economic crisis and were labelled crackpots. How could no one see the crisis coming? They could but were told to look the other way...................."

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:48PM Report Comment
 

40. chrisa said...

33. shipbuilder said...
Chrisa - So do you mean that the Tories are also socialists and presumably George Bush as well?

Probably the best way to answer that is to say that if the Tories get in I'd be amazed if they proved much different from the present crowd. I maintain that the Fascists are already in power. Whereas the BNP dislike the immigrant population I think sufficient evidence has accumulated for people to work out that Neo Labour despise the indigenous population. UK and US (and others) have been sold out by their own 'elite' who are all working to the same Agenda, which is Internationalist. This is the real reason why the BNP are hated by Neo Labour etc because they are Nationalists. A One World Agenda cannot tolerate Nationalism. Obvious.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:49PM Report Comment
 

41. crunchy said...

31. chrisa : )

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:51PM Report Comment
 

42. mr g said...

"The prime minister is keen to use the autumn pre-budget statement to announce a new “fiscal stimulus”, with billions of pounds of extra money for housing, infrastructure projects and training."

Ah, training!

The buzz word of the last 20 years, beloved of managing directors wanting to promote their companies as appearing to care about their employees and socialists wanting to appear to be doing something to fight the recession / unemployment by improving people's job prospects.

Either way it's simply bullsh*t.

Regarding the earlier posts about the BNP:

Let me say from the outset that I have no love for this party or it's policies,and I appreciate this has nothing to do with house prices or the economy. IMO the BNP has performed a useful service by highlighting immigration levels, lack of integration and Islamic extemism whereby it has become respectable to discuss these problems openly and in the mainstream media.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:55PM Report Comment
 

43. mountain goat said...

Stillthinking @26- "We will get one more deflationary wave early next year, all write-offs naturally covered by the taxpayer, and then disaster."

And then the blame game will get very vicious indeed. I expect the far right and left will both do well in future.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 01:58PM Report Comment
 

44. crunchy said...

37. mr g : ) : )

Sunday, November 1, 2009 02:07PM Report Comment
 

45. mr g said...

Crunchy@39 ??

Sunday, November 1, 2009 02:09PM Report Comment
 

46. crunchy said...

At last!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 02:19PM Report Comment
 

47. crunchy said...

40. mr g

Agree totally with you and chrisa.

And most got all confused. Media seems to be doing a good job. God help us!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 02:23PM Report Comment
 

48. crunchy said...

http://news.aol.co.uk/crowds-out-to-welcome-home-troops/article/2009103109342066920092

God help us!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 02:35PM Report Comment
 

49. crunchy said...

15. the number cruncher said...Crunchy @5 - I expect more than a 'straw man' augment from you

It was not if you can connect the dots.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 02:45PM Report Comment
 

50. the number cruncher said...

crunchy @ 44

please do connect the dots for me and tell me what you think in plain English.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 04:58PM Report Comment
 

51. techieman said...

the number cruncher : Bonne Chance mon ami!!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 05:22PM Report Comment
 

52. crunchy said...

45. the number cruncher

You remind me of p.doff. You will not get it if you have not already. A waste of my time.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 05:40PM Report Comment
 

53. the number cruncher said...

théoricien de la conspiration avec une touche de folie

Sunday, November 1, 2009 05:43PM Report Comment
 

54. techieman said...

eh voila!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 05:52PM Report Comment
 

55. the number cruncher said...

crunchy @ 47

Communicating your opinions with others is a very good way of improving your own understanding of them and facilitates dialogue that will enhance both your knowledge, my own and that of all the other poster.

It also forces you to justify those opinions to yourself and gives them enhanced credibility and rigor

I have a feeling that elaborating on your opinions would do you a lot more good than it would me.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 06:08PM Report Comment
 

56. crunchy said...

48. Confirms why, how perceptive of me! My own understanding is clear and thas been proven correct on every occasion.

Keep searching you have a long way to go, I'm sorry to say. I can't do it for you.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 06:26PM Report Comment
 

57. techieman said...

une touche? mais non - complètement fou -c'est vrais!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 07:44PM Report Comment
 

58. p. doff said...

@ 47

Somebody mention me?

Ooh ..... you can be so cruel Crunch, - but I forgive you.

..... only because as far as you are concerned, I 'got it' a long time ago. :o)

Sunday, November 1, 2009 08:54PM Report Comment
 

59. crunchy said...

53. p. doff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100

Heres an example of p.doff's narrow closed mind. He still does not get it. D'oh!

That's just a tiny one. God help us!

Sunday, November 1, 2009 10:30PM Report Comment
 

60. crunchy said...

I understand why you close your eyes p.doff, but that's still no excuse.

I had a big problem with it and the "rest" myself !

You can try and forget it, but it is still there as real as your next breath.

Sunday, November 1, 2009 10:53PM Report Comment
 

61. p. doff said...

@ 10-30pm

Ah yes, the anticipated link to youtube duly arrives. I recall S2R1 was also very fond of Youtube when trying to avoid rational thought. Do you believe in the suppressed existence of chemtrails and water driven internal combustion engines too Crunch?

Monday, November 2, 2009 07:39AM Report Comment
 

62. crunchy said...

Early in the morning for you p.doff. I had trouble sleeping when I saw that video coupled with the buidings collapse 20 minutes after being

reported and those missing 7 tonne titanium jet engines which I was meant to believe evaporated into thin air along with all the other mind

numbing crap. I still have trouble sleeping to date, and I used to sleep like a log. Is that what you fear. It's a small price.

STR1 is another individual, personally a have little interest in such things I am too busy keeping track of what is important to me.

Don't bother asking, you wouldn't understand if you are still in "blind denial." Your choice. I hope that this thread has been of use to

someone else. 911 is the smoking gun and a good starting point for your "own" search for the truth.

Monday, November 2, 2009 08:17AM Report Comment
 

63. p. doff said...

62. crunchy said...Early in the morning for you p.doff.

Indeed. I have a hillwalk jaunt planned with some friends and need to dust off my boots before the lift arrives. How about you - I assume you have just stayed up later than usual.

I didn't actually suggest that you were the same individual as S2R1 - I just thought you must be of a similar ilk. Funny though how you feel the need to dispel the perceived suggestion - and the similarity in your viewpoints IS quite uncanny.

But hey-ho, I'm pleased to say that I have always slept exceedingly well, and anticipate continuing to do so. It must be something to do with my consciousness not yet having reached a higher plane as we approach the singularity. Know what I mean? - nudge nudge, wink wink!

Perhaps 'blind denial' has it's advantages - you should try it sometime :o)

There goes the doorbell.

Monday, November 2, 2009 09:10AM Report Comment
 

64. crunchy said...

63. p. doff

Off to Spain again next week. I had some bad news but things are OK now. Tell me what you think of the Silverstein clip.

Taking a building down takes days to do and the term "pull it" is very common in the destruction industry. If you can also explain the 20

minute advanced report that would be great. If you do not reply, I will ask you again not too long in the future if you need more time.

Thanking you in advance!

Monday, November 2, 2009 02:40PM Report Comment
 

65. crunchy said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltP2t9nq9fI&feature=related

This should help you explain tower 7 to me d.off. I have made this very easy for you now.

I await to be enlightened.

Tuesday, November 3, 2009 03:18AM Report Comment
 

66. crunchy said...

I will let you off the hook p.doff.

I know that you can't do it. Sleep well.

Tuesday, November 3, 2009 03:55PM Report Comment
 

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