Monday, Nov 16, 2009

A whole Wiki page devoted to our face BTL couple!

Wikipedia: Fergus and Judith Wilson

A fine compendium of Wilsons-based news and articles, right up to last week's arrears story.

Posted by mark wadsworth @ 12:04 PM (2472 views)
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1. mark wadsworth said...

Oops that should read "fave".

Monday, November 16, 2009 12:04PM Report Comment

2. str 2007 said...

I'm so sorry to have missed the Wilson post which I assume would have been on here last week.

So we were right all along. There BTL valuation and model was floored.

And don't you just love the 'cheque is in the post' excuse.

Surprised they haven't found a buyer for their portfolio yet, given there's such a shortage of property ;-).

Monday, November 16, 2009 12:53PM Report Comment

3. Alfie said...

Makes me think of that great nursery rhyme.... 10 green bottles standing on the wall......

Brings a smile to my face ;-)

Monday, November 16, 2009 01:00PM Report Comment

4. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...

I liked this comment:

"How very careless of the Post Office - getting his cheques stuck in the backlog yet somehow managing to get the payment demands through.

What was the punch line to the old joke about the two most common lies in the world ? The first unprintable and the second, "the cheque's in the post".

Monday, November 16, 2009 01:06PM Report Comment

5. tenant super said...

Whilst I find it hard to resist dancing on the fiscal graves of the likes of Liam Caroll, Bovey and the Wilsons, I always feel slightly concerned that to do so is probably psychologically unhealthy (though thoroughly human) to some degree.

Monday, November 16, 2009 01:20PM Report Comment

6. crunchy said...

4. crunchy said...This meat head is a FOOL.

If this was me, heaven forbid, I would cash in my millions and retire (zero risk) in complete comfort for the rest of my life. He does not have

much time left by the looks of him. However, that may be akin to asking a sociopath or paedophile to retire.

A victim of his own success? I hope he works till death.

Friday, October 30, 2009 11:33AM

As usual I was right. Bye bye lightweights! Someone on that same thread said that he was clever. D'oh!

Monday, November 16, 2009 01:38PM Report Comment

7. matt_the_hat said...

They only have to turn a 1% profit on 900 properties to make them millionaires and if they go bust then they have good civil service pensions.

Upside effectively winning the lottery - downside where the rest of us currently are. Who can really blame them?

Monday, November 16, 2009 02:58PM Report Comment

8. Mark Wadsworth said...

@ Matt, "and if they go bust ..." they'll have to use up the next decade's civil service pension to pay off the accrued arrears!

Monday, November 16, 2009 03:22PM Report Comment

9. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...

“and if they go bust then they have good civil service pensions”.

So what happens if you go bankrupt just as your pensions kick in???

Monday, November 16, 2009 03:24PM Report Comment

10. mken said...

The Wilsons are just small fry and will not be protected by the government. But they're the only "high profile" casualties we have. It's quite another story for the bankers who will be rescued as many times as it takes and continue to demand their bonuses for all the good the have done the economy.

Monday, November 16, 2009 03:37PM Report Comment

11. cynicalsoothsayer said...

As he says, if they go bust, the other BTLs will too. The market for miles around them will be depressed by the sudden availability of hundreds of houses at forced sell prices, which will likely be bought by tenants, depressing rents too. The win-win on the way up for BTLs will become a lose-lose on the way down: empty properties losing value.

Monday, November 16, 2009 03:45PM Report Comment

12. str 2007 said...

I don't expect banks will repossess and auction these houses.

1/ Because that would mean realising a loss on the balance sheets.

2/ Because they will obviously depress prices by selling all at once, increasing their losses.

If the banks were to take over these properties they will continue to let them by some means until more favourable market conditions allow for there dosposal.

Monday, November 16, 2009 04:12PM Report Comment

13. str 2007 said...

I just want to see the Wilsons re-interviewed after the event so they can explain their simple business plan to us again and let the nation know how smart they really are.

Monday, November 16, 2009 04:13PM Report Comment

14. jack c said...

Hi str2007 - I guess from your earlier post you missed the previous posting on the Wilson's from back end of last week.

Picking up on your latest point I posted this on the previous 'Wilson' thread - "If the lenders do elect to take posession of one or more properties then it is my understanding that they must look to achieve the best possible price (even by auction) - The FSA treating customers fairly initiative immediately springs to mind. I cant therefore see how the properties could be drip fed into the market but I'm open to debate on this aspect" - Saturday, November 14, 2009 05:31PM (Buy to let meltdown Thread)

Monday, November 16, 2009 04:26PM Report Comment

15. smugdog said...

Let us just have a street hanging and be done with it!

Monday, November 16, 2009 04:29PM Report Comment

16. str 2007 said...

Hi Jack

Surely the 'getting best possible price' and Auctioning several hundred houses at the same time in the same area would conflict one another somewhat ?

I would have thought (particularly in this instance given the high profile) that if sold straight away then these houses would be put equally through all local agents at an agreed 1% max sale commission (for example). Each agent being given say 10 houses then the remaining released as the agents sell the first ones until they're all gone.

This might take 1-2 years, but would have a far less depressing effect on the local market and given bankers are getting money so cheaply wouldn't hurt them as much as putting them all through auction.

Monday, November 16, 2009 04:36PM Report Comment

17. str 2007 said...


Of who, Gordon Brown for allowing the system or the Wilsons for playing it ?

Monday, November 16, 2009 04:38PM Report Comment

18. jack c said...

str 2007 - I understand your thinking on this one however I believe the lenders have to follow a set procedure if they elect to take posession. I'll double check this and report back. Incidentally I suspect Fergus & Co will only be in default on a proportion of the portfolio (not all) and time will tell if his cheque is in the post argument stacks up.

13. smugdog said...Let us just have a street hanging and be done with it! Monday, November 16, 2009 04:29PM - yes for the mischief you are causing on the blog smugdog as soon as we find out who you are we'll have the hanging (LOL)

Monday, November 16, 2009 04:50PM Report Comment

19. timmy t said...

Considering that there is now a govt department managing public holdings in Banks, and that the MPC and others have casually mentioned using QE cash to invest in "other assets", how likely is it that we will see another govt department set up to manage houses which would normally be repossessed, but are bought from the lenders using new cash and then let back to the "owner" at bargain basement prices until the "asset" can be sold without loss?

Banks get their money back
Less repossessions
This fabulous govt of ours is re-elected
House prices stay inflated
The masses rejoice
Mugs like me who have always been prudent get truly shafted by bailing out the idiots who borrowed too much...

Monday, November 16, 2009 04:52PM Report Comment

20. cynicalsoothsayer said...

The banks need to get people into these houses that will pay the mortgage. The Wilsons will still owe the remaining mortgage capital after the sale price has been deducted as an unsecured loan. Therefore the lenders will go after their 2 million pound mansion.

Monday, November 16, 2009 05:01PM Report Comment

21. cynicalsoothsayer said...

jack c, str2007
The repossession rules are in the FSA handbook:

Monday, November 16, 2009 05:03PM Report Comment

22. contrails are not a conspiracy (formerly npnh) said...

Jack C…. Bravo :o)

Smugdog will be gone soon enough. Just like all the other bulls. That’s what makes him bearable…. Pun intended.

Monday, November 16, 2009 05:10PM Report Comment

23. jack c said...

str 2007 - see below (thanks to cynicalsoothsayer @ 19)

MCOB 13.6 Repossessions
MCOB 13.6.1
A firm must ensure that, whenever a property is repossessed (whether voluntarily or through legal action) and it administers the regulated mortgage contract or home purchase plan 1 in respect of that property, steps are taken to:
(1) market the property for sale as soon as possible; and

(2) obtain the best price that might reasonably be paid, taking account of factors such as market conditions as well as the continuing increase in the amount owed by the customer1 .

MCOB 13.6.2 In MCOB 13.6.1 R it is recognised that a balance has to be struck between the need to sell the property as soon as possible, to reduce or remove the outstanding debt, and other factors which may prompt the delay of the sale. These might include market conditions (explicitly referred to in MCOB 13.6.1 R(2)) but there may be other legitimate reasons for deferring action. This could include the expiry of a period when a grant is repayable on re-sale, or the discovery of a title defect that needs to be remedied if the optimal selling price is to be achieved.

Monday, November 16, 2009 05:20PM Report Comment

24. mark wadsworth said...

Timmy T, comment 17.

Excellent plan. If the Red Wing of the Home-Owners Party hasn't done all this, then the Blue Wing will do it after the election.

I wouldn't mind at all if local councils awarded themselves planning permission and got on with building social housing at £50k a pop, that's excellent value for tenant and taxpayer alike; but no, they are already buying up houses at inflated prices (over half the value of a house relates to planning permission which local councils granted at well below market value in the first place). That's 5H1T value for the taxpayer and probably not much better for the tenant (who in many cases will be a taxpayer as well).

"Whatever it takes"

Monday, November 16, 2009 05:42PM Report Comment

25. timmy t said...

MW - no it's a completely sh1t plan which is why it will probably happen!

Monday, November 16, 2009 05:46PM Report Comment

26. Jamieborg said...

All around the Maidstone area? Sibley? Big shock for you fella...You ok?

Monday, November 16, 2009 06:32PM Report Comment

27. techieman said...

Aha Jack the FSA's MCOB! Is it still MCOB or is it MCOBS? [the reason i say that is that i know that the ICOB was recently replaced by ICOBS (apparently to simplify things.... "go figure"

I'm not sure that this is actually part of TCF but it may be. At the end of the day this is a really interesting development and will probably be fudged.

In the last crash - there were many people with MIGs so the repossessions would take place as soon as and the Insurance company would (as i understand it) have to chase around. If there are no MIGs the shortfall would surely just become the Mortgagees chasing our dynamic duo and presumably taking the assets of the company (first come first served.... unless more or less all are with the same Mortgagee - i know probably ME, which means it would revert back to the banks through FSCS).

Again i am not sure on that one though as to whether the BTL mortgage rests with the company or with the person who took out the BTL mortgage. I have a vague recollection that Greenbay told us that it would be the company, if thats right then presumably the Wilsons could do a Bovey with some of the money they probably stashed offshore...... or am i giving them too much credit?

Monday, November 16, 2009 06:37PM Report Comment

28. krustyatemyhamster said...

"or am i giving them too much credit?"

No, that was Bradford and Bingley.

Boom boom.

Monday, November 16, 2009 06:49PM Report Comment

29. mark wadsworth said...

@ Timmy T, I was being ironic, it is a 5H1T plan and it is already happening!

Monday, November 16, 2009 06:54PM Report Comment

30. str 2007 said...

Thanks Jack & Cynical

I'm afraid to say they'll simply change the rule book if it suits them.

I really can't see Gordon turning round and letting alot of repossessions happen.

As said above they will simply print more money to buy up th e houses.

''At any cost'' remember.

Monday, November 16, 2009 08:29PM Report Comment

31. the number cruncher said...

Smugdog -

I like your posts, keep them up. I always welcome opposing views, it gives a sense of proportion and makes me happy

Where British after all and we all love the underdog no matter how smug...

Keep it up

Monday, November 16, 2009 08:37PM Report Comment

32. jack c said...

techieman @ 24 - as I said in my post on the thread from Saturday gone, it's a bit difficult to comment accurately on the Wilson's because we dont know their precise circumstances or mortgage arrangements. I doubt very much whether the landers (mortgage express in the main) will have any MIG's on which to fall back (see my previous post on this) - also when you read the rule book if the lender is to take possession it really must be the last resort !

I also agree with str2007's point that the Gov will do whatever they need to do to stave off mass repossessions and prop up prices, however IMO they are only staving off the inevitable. I'll post up an article on the main board regarding interest rates rocketing.

Monday, November 16, 2009 09:13PM Report Comment

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