Sunday, Oct 25, 2009

The UK is going bust: are we prepared to face the truth?

Greg Pytel: Will the UK go bust after the elections?

It's time for politicians to make it clear what the economic situation is. We know it's bad. But how bad is it? And it's time for us to face the harsh reality.

Posted by ant @ 12:05 PM (1968 views)
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1. devo said...

Why didn't the Conservatives oppose the policy of Quantitative Easing when it was first announced?

Sunday, October 25, 2009 12:40PM Report Comment

2. ant said...

I think the Conservative are afraid to spoil this sad end to New Labour's party. They do want to be like a mother who crashed the party and grabbed her son, still high on drugs, back home. The truth will hit home after the elections. However the detox will be more painful.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 12:51PM Report Comment

3. crunchy said...

1. devo

As with so many past events.

Look left, look right, look in the middle if you may, but keep the solution out of sight untill it's too late in the day.

The solution is for you. The one choice is for the few.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 12:53PM Report Comment

4. devo said...

So you are saying they knowingly watched Brown plan for the economic destruction of the UK without saying a word?

Are they that morally corrupt?

Sunday, October 25, 2009 12:58PM Report Comment

5. devo said...

"keep the solution out of sight"

This is where our opinions diverge crunchy.

There is no solution, and they know it.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:01PM Report Comment

6. crunchy said...

5. devo

The solution is for you, the populas. and they know it.

There my friend lies the problem, not for them, but us.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:08PM Report Comment

7. ant said...

@devo: this is hard one. The Conservatives are simply too afraid to tell the truth and then lose the elections. I guess this a combination between a story about shooting the messenger and a state of denial.

So in a way they are watching preplexed as the country is sliding to a financial disaster. (Just work out the value of the government spending thus far, then add what will be spend till elections. Then calculate how we are going to repay it. Zimbabwe like inflation seems to be quite realistic bet... or some other form of collapse. Where are we going to find this zillions?)

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:08PM Report Comment

8. crunchy said...

Turn back the hands of time, and cut off the hands of crime.

Solution? Revolution!

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:15PM Report Comment

9. devo said...

Both Labour and the Conservatives have made half-hearted mumblings about making a few cuts here and there which will miraculously put us back on track.

We are heading for disaster.

A few basic observations from a 'layman'

*Any cuts will increase unemployment
*Increased unemployment will increase the burden on the benefits system.
*Spending, by the consumer will continue to decrease - not good for a service-based economy.
*Money raised by taxation will continue to fall.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:20PM Report Comment

10. crunchy said...

devo, focus----The turbo printed economy and the increase in government drones.

Solution? Revolution!

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:30PM Report Comment

11. devo said...

Quantitative Easing is being seen not to work; yet switching it off is not an option.

Expect to see increasingly extreme ideas being suggested, like this one just posted on the HPC forum:

At least half of the 50 elected lawmakers say they’ll back a plan for the government to buy all 6 billion dinars ($21 billion) of bank loans taken by Kuwaiti citizens to buy homes, cars, holidays and other purchases, write off interest payments and reschedule the rest. The government opposes the bailout. Parliament convenes on Oct. 27 after a four-month break.

Bloomberg:Kuwaiti Politicians Feud Over $21 Billion Consumer Bailout Plan

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:34PM Report Comment

12. crunchy said...

Last one........

Solution? Revolution! or WW111.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:42PM Report Comment

13. devo said...

The revolution is happening here on HPC and elsewhere, as we speak.

The barely-suppressed anger of a rapidly increasing number of people will find an outlet soon enough.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 01:44PM Report Comment

14. ant said...

The revolution is an option. But let’s be more realistic. We all have MP’s our representatives. And they DO listen: they know that when push comes to shove they may not be re-elected by US and great majority of then will end up out of politics and most of them, apart from very prominent ones, will not get cushy jobs in business. They know they will those who struggle on the job market (albeit with solid pay outs).

Therefore we should make direct representations to our MP’s, whether Labour, Conservative, Liberal or any other. Put a pressure on them so they put a pressure on the government on:

1. Investigation on causes and mechanics of the current crisis including prosecuting of its perpetrators (READ this rather enlightening article:

2. Remedial plan of getting out of this deep hole NOW. After the elections, if it is not too late, it will be far more difficult and painful.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 02:08PM Report Comment

15. devo said...

14. ant said... The revolution is an option. But let’s be more realistic... we should make direct representations to our MPs.

You will find that revolution is far more likely than the possibility of getting any meaningful change from our MPs.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 02:20PM Report Comment

16. devo said...

14. ant said... 2. Remedial plan of getting out of this deep hole NOW.

But you also say in the article, "The government have no idea of the size of liquidity hole they are trying to plug."

It seems to me it will be difficult to escape from such a hole.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 02:30PM Report Comment

17. fallingbuzzard said...

I could have got the UK out of recession far earlier than Brown. Simple, by buying back £350bn of bonds in 6 months rather than £175bn.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 04:50PM Report Comment

18. devo said...

If it's so simple, why don't I understand you?

Don't answer that - just explain what you mean.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 04:59PM Report Comment

19. chrisa said...

'It is clear that the public do not understand the scale of the crisis which was caused by a collapse of the giant pyramid scheme.'

That is what you would expect when you deliberately undereducate the population and feed them the distractions of celebrity 'culture' and Premier League football. However nice this guy has spelt it out so clearly.

Is it really only me and Crunchy who don't buy the line that incompetence and greed caused the crisis? For goodness sake, people did see this coming years ago and yet they were ignored, and the regulators turned a blind eye, as they were asked to do. The question remains why? Answer to bring in the new you have to destroy the old...........When the second crash comes (see Roubini the other day) psychologically people will be more ready to accept the 'solution' they will be told they need to accept.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 05:04PM Report Comment

20. devo said...

'For goodness sake, people did see this coming years ago and yet they were ignored, and the regulators turned a blind eye, as they were asked to do.'

Of course: the writing has been on the wall for some time (don't all fiat money systems eventually fail?) This doesn't stop those that can, from gaming the system until the music stops, including dare I say, our beloved crunchy?

Sunday, October 25, 2009 05:13PM Report Comment

21. devo said...

Apologies crunchy, that didn't come out right.
I'll try again later.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 05:20PM Report Comment

22. devo said...

I have no doubt in my mind that there is massive corruption and collusion going on at present, involving the upper echelons of finance: central banks, certain investment and retail banks, large corporations, governments etc. in an effort to prop up the global financial system.

However, continuing to take part in the markets is, in fact, to endorse the actions of The Powers That Be.

Also, I am not convinced that they are working to a long-term plan.

As has been said: too many variables.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 05:36PM Report Comment

23. shipbuilder said...

Everyone turned a blind eye because they were all making a fortune. No one wants to face up to the truth because it is really too horrible to contemplate. In fact imagining that it is all controlled and deliberate is simply another coping mechanism.
If this is all an evil plan then at least we can see a way out of it. Accepting that no-one is in control and the future is unknown is much, much scarier.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 05:51PM Report Comment

24. rumble said...

Yeah, I'm with shipbuilder on this. I think the alternative gives the powers that be far too much credit.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 08:12PM Report Comment

25. mander said...

New world currency baby, are the banks books to be provided for an exchange? They may open the pandora's box...

Sunday, October 25, 2009 08:50PM Report Comment

26. fallingbuzzard said...

£175bn maintains the status quo in deficit terms and was needed because the bond market went shy. If Brown believes in Keynes and stimulus efforts, the way to boost the economy was to go beyond maintaining the status quo and borrow/print to stimulate the economy by bringing forward all infrastructure work. That would have raised actual growth far more quickly. Thats what Keynes meant, Keynes didnt support printing or even prolonged borrowing to maintain a deficit. If you're going to do Keynes, you should at least do it properly.

Sunday, October 25, 2009 09:52PM Report Comment

27. devo said...


A true economist's answer if ever there was one.

Did you predict the 3rd quarter recession perchance?

Sunday, October 25, 2009 10:12PM Report Comment

28. devo said...


If Brown believes in Keynes and stimulus efforts, the way to boost the economy was to go beyond maintaining the status quo and borrow/print to stimulate the economy by bringing forward all infrastructure work.

We don't need more roads.
We don't need more bridges.
We don't need more buildings.

Explain yourself, man!

Sunday, October 25, 2009 10:26PM Report Comment

29. goweresque said...

@fallingbuzzard: I love your argument, its the perennial Keynesian one, that the only reason Keynesianism fails is that we didn't spend enough money. Of course you didn't tell us that BEFORE we spent £175bn....................incidentally is there a limit beyond which even you might baulk? £500bn? £1tn? Or is the amount just always more than has been spent so far?

Monday, October 26, 2009 12:51AM Report Comment

30. shipbuilder said...

goweresque, perhaps you missed the part of fallingbuzzard's post where he said "Keynes didn't support printing or even prolonged borrowing to maintain a deficit".

Monday, October 26, 2009 12:57AM Report Comment

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