Monday, February 9, 2009

John Prescott sets up petition for RBS to give up bonuses

No Ifs No Buts- Give up the Bonus, RBS

Following on from his Facebook page http://en-gb.facebook.com/group.php?gid=41481071905 Prescott has started a petition: "It's reported that the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS), which received £20 billion of taxpayers' money, plans to give £1b of it out in bonuses to bankers and traders. We believe this is morally and economically outrageous and should be stopped. The taxpayer owns 68% of RBS so we are now ALL shareholders. So as shareholders, we therefore call on the board of RBS to announce that their bankers and traders will receive NO bonus this year. "

Posted by mountain goat @ 02:36 PM (4937 views)
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75 thoughts on “John Prescott sets up petition for RBS to give up bonuses

  • mountain goat says:

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  • Now that he’s started going down the route of effectively saying you shouldnt get paid if you are incompetant will he and his cronies including the main man at number 10 give up drwaing their salaries? The regulator created by Gordon Brown ie FSA presided over all of this so can we have an end to the salary and bonus scheme at the FSA?

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  • Now that he’s started going down the route of effectively saying you shouldnt get paid if you are incompetant will he and his cronies including the main man at number 10 give up drwaing their salaries? The regulator created by Gordon Brown ie FSA presided over all of this so can we have an end to the salary and bonus scheme at the FSA?

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  • No Ifs no buts give up your pension; you caused this mess as much as any banker.

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  • happy mondays says:

    Why are we not on the streets in protest about all this robbery, or has’nt the british public still not been Shafted enough!

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  • This really is starting to look like a witchhunt. Did we go after civil cervants (teachers, NHS doctors) after the Iraq war. Most “bankers” have absolutely nothing to do with all this.

    Besides, many people who were working at RBS a the time have now moved elsewhere.
    So why don t we punish these people instead?

    The main problem is that people would work for a bank 2-3 years and then move on to anotehr bank. They didn t care if they left a mess behind them, all that mattered was that they d make money during a short period of time and then get a job elsewehere- and a promotion and a guaranteed bonus.
    It s the culture of staying at a place for 2-3 years that is wrong – because employees don t care about the long term future of the company/the deals.

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  • And why does Gordon Brown still have his job?

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  • Robert Surrey says:

    Just like happy mondays said i am up for surrounding the banks and standing against these bonuses. Everyone with an RBS bank account should withdraw all there money at once and let them fall over. It is not down to us to bail them out as i cannot see anyone giving a free hand to my small buisness.

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  • I predict riots on the streets of London this summer.

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  • en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Predict_a_Riot

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  • Happy Mondays says:

    John said…This really is starting to look like a witchhunt. Did we go after civil cervants (teachers, NHS doctors) after the Iraq war. Most “bankers” have absolutely nothing to do with all this
    unfortunately your right ! witch hunts & some one to blame is the rule of the mobs, even though most people were happy to comply with government & those that control whilst things are going “fine & dandy” when the s**t hits the fan, people will be take there anger on anyone who they think was involved.. probably even down to celebrities, overpaid footballers etc!

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  • Oh! Those poor bankers not getting their bonus wonus-es. Diddems!
    Most people don’t get bonuses (boni), big deal.
    They’ll still get paid handsomely.
    The underlying problem here is that the world is run by overwhelmingly greedy people.
    And Gordon Brown can’t help; having only one eye, he lacks perspective.

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  • happy mondays says:

    John said…This really is starting to look like a witchhunt. Did we go after civil cervants (teachers, NHS doctors) after the Iraq war. Most “bankers” have absolutely nothing to do with all this.

    people unfortunatly need someone to blame, even the poor celebs might get a bashing! mind you some deserve it!

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  • happy mondays……I agree that the witch-hunt has started. Politicians started it, they want to blame everyone who is connected, bankers, etc with the property boom. It’s obvious that no single source of blame can be found. Look at the Aussie PM, ready to condemn ‘mass-murderers’ even before the fires are out or any real blame can be ascertained, simply because a couple of arrests have been made. This appears to be simply to ‘deflect’ blame from their recent advice for homeowners to defend their own homes and the inability of the Oz government to fight the unfightable.

    Scapegoats will be sought and all of us will be regarded as ‘economic terrorists’ if the mood in the country continues.

    It wont be politicians, dodgy banking practices, peoples greed in wanting to make easy money from property or property rampers who will be to blame but anyone who thinks lower house prices is a good thing.

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  • happy mondays says:

    @shining wit
    agreed, however i think people are getting a bit smarter these days and eventually will see the truth.

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  • @titaniccaptain – hope there’s an edit facility on that site of yours

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  • stillthinking says:

    Surely this is just to remove attention from bonuses already received. The bonuses that need to be repaid are the ones based on faulty lending, not just activities over the last year when the banks were forced into realistic models.

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  • It is natural that we should accept and seek consequences in proportion to our actions. The main problem as I see it is that many in the financial world feel that there should be no limit to their benefit from positive actions, yet seem willingly blind to the negative effects of their actions. How convenient that money is back by law when it is created yet suddenly becomes a somewhat abstract concept when lost.

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  • happy mondays @ 13…

    “i think people are getting a bit smarter these days and eventually will see the truth” – As opposed to the millions who still think that their house is worth 500k even though no-ones come to see it in a year, thinking it’s just a matter of them not being able to get a mortgage?

    I doubt that very much. Some people (millions in fact) will still vote for Gordon Brown in the next because they think he’s a financial wizard. After all he did allow them to borrow (sorry remove equity from their property’s toy-town value) loads-a-money so they could go on holiday/pay for a new car/lend their kids money to buy into the pyramid scheme!

    There are loads of people today, seriously worried about their balls because some stupid researcher asked 369 people who already had cancer whether they ever smoked a joint or two and corrolating that evidence to mean that dope usage has a 70% increased risk of testicular cancer , when the research doesn’t stand up to any sort of scrutiny! People are stupid – nature designed us that way. Did you see the idiots on the news today, train-dodging at level crossings, the moron who lost his shoe didn’t even appear to look !!!

    I rest my case.

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  • japanese uncle says:

    Regarding the top picture, I remember seeing the footage. It was really a perfect left jab beyond imagination considering JP’s bloated physique.

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  • The government should have nationalised any bank that was in trouble and needed financial support to survive. The reasons they didn’t are obvious:

    1. They needed the banks to stay in charge so that they could push all the blame onto them for the country’s financial meltdown

    2. They would have no excuse for letting the credit madness continue.

    3. They already knew (*prior to august 2007) that the system was going to go belly up and did nothing.

    This government is in survival mose. It cares not on jot, about you me or anyone else. Just look at the home secretary and her corrupt use of expenses, or the Labour peers, or that latest ‘sir’ or ‘lord’ that labour enobles, who will lead the next report, revue or other government spoonsored rubbish of an excuse for democracy.

    They are all bent.

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  • @20 shining wit
    “People are stupid – nature designed us that way. Did you see the idiots on the news today, train-dodging at level crossings, the moron who lost his shoe didn’t even appear to look !!!”

    I saw that – whilst admittedly the last two clips showed incredibly foolish people, what struck me was that the first one showed a car carrying straight on at a crossing, narrowly avoiding being hit – a crossing without barriers and on a very bright day – it’s very difficult in the clip to see the lights flashing because of the sun and the driver wasn’t trying to outrun the lights – they just hadn’t noticed them. I’m not sure what point I’m making here – not everything’s black and white i suppose – and doesn’t the first clip therefore show the foolishness of whoever decided to put (or avoid paying for) a crossing there without barriers. But yeah, as for the guy who had his shoe knocked off – he must have been on something.

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  • JU….

    Indeed a reasonable responce from the Depeuty PM. I’m sure St Tony of the Bliars would’ve simply turned the other cheek !

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  • I agree with titaniccaptain but also I would like some revenge:
    No bonuses for bankers – let the best ‘talent’ go elsewhere if it wants to.
    Governments can be replaced, political leaders can be brought down through public demonstrations (e.g. poll tax riots).
    This will be good for the soul.

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  • phdinbubbles…..

    I agree about that last car in the clip. If you’re not reading the road (or don’t know it) and the suns in the wrong direction this sort of thing is inevitable.

    I cannot understand, in a modern (don’t larf) country, why ALL level crossings haven’t got barriers, after all, with Crash Gordon’s logic of paying billions and billions out for absolutely no return, the old line about ANYTHING not being cost effective seems to no longer have any creedance whatsoever.

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  • If they don’t pay bonuses to their employees, those employees might leave. Lowering the level of expertise would be the result presumably. And presumably ultimately those banks will fold. Perhaps they should. One advantage this time is that they will die slowly and therefore won’t shock any of us with their passing.

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  • To John @ comment 6

    While I agree that a lot of the protesting has more to do with traditional jealousy and ignorance (people are ready to complain when they see people making more money than them, for example, and rarely take the time to investigate the subjects they complain about) there’s very good reason why there should be no bonus to nationalized banks. And it is the same reason why, for example, I and millions of other workers in industries and companies across the world tdid not get any bonus this year: the current finantial and economic situation warrants caution and cash conservation. If we add to this the fact that, if not for taxpayers money these banks would be bankrupt, and thus their employees most likely unemployed by now (and thus without a salary, let alone a bonus) then it becomes obvious that ANY bonus paid is money stolen from taxpayers. That 1 out of 20 billions given as life-support (i.e, to keep a company from going bankrupt and for all of its employers to find themselves without a job) goes to bonus it just flabbergasting. it wouldn’t be any more outrageous if you gave money to a begger and they turn around and spent it on drugs. That we, as taxpayers were “forced” into this arrangement to provide charity just adds insult to injury. Frankly I am upset that I did not get a bonus at my company because these are tough times. Had my employer gone bankrupt then who knows, I would get a bonus, courtesy of the taxpayer. For some reason I cannot stop thinking of “through the looking glass”.

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  • cyril @ 25 ……

    “I would like some revenge ” – It’s St Valentine’s Day on Saturday, no where’s my violin case…..

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  • They’ve given up on capaitlism and reverted to their innate socialism – we’ll have five year tractor plans next.

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  • Prescott packs a pedestrian punch

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  • Something’s gone wrong with the system – I posted that comment about tractors days ago on another thread – I just clicked the link to this article and suddenly there’s my name at the bottom of the comments – very strange…

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  • I think that’s a linkback, bidin.

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  • Bonuses are not the issue – the most worrying aspect to all this is that we are not talking about the real issues. How can companies grow so large that they need to be bailed out? Why do we incentivise most those things that benefit the majority of us least? Why do the majority own and control so little?

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  • What is going on with the banks rewarding themselves with bonuses when they are responsible for the economic mess we are all suffering, is absolutely immoral. If Gordon Brown does nothing to stop those payments he would loose the respect of the British people and my vote in the next elections.

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  • Don’t think I have ever agreed with you before,but as the owner of a family firm of 130 years standing,and struggling to survive,I am appalled
    at the inention of RBS to spend my money awarding people who in any other business would be out of work.
    I shall be changing my bank. Good luck with your rightieous campaign.

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  • Theresa Macdonald says:

    The bonuse,suggested by the bank should put on hold until the public can have the
    ir say. I agree with John Prescot but not the leaders of the Labour party who are hedging they should say ya or nay to the bank right now.

    Theresa

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  • pressy kick their bloody banker bottoms

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  • They should be given nothing, many people have now lost their jobs, houses, families, etc due to the Banking deceipt in fact they should prosecuted and return bonuses claimed for all previous years of lies and deception.

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  • No more bonuses to be paid to ANY bank employee whatever the contractual obligations.

    Any bonuses already paid to be recovered and given back to
    the taxpayer in full.
    Look forward to Goodwin being grilled tomorrow, but hearing who his friend is, I wonder?

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  • shipbuilder:
    These questions go to the heart of the problem with our economy and society. These issues in my view are the inevitable consequences of an insufficiently regulated economy, the extremes of which we see in Russia (where those who control the wealth are prepared to kill people) and developing countries like, eg, Brazil (the ineffable poverty of the inhabitants of shanty towns, etc). Bankers and their bonuses are less acute examples of the same thing: the gravitation of wealth into the hands of a few, a robber baron kind of society. The eventual outcome is either a polarised populace or revolution.

    Many criticisms of the bar room kind are made here about the current govt, but the greatest condemnation one can level at it is that they are merely continuing the policies that date back to 1989, with a few early attempts at greater fairness in the minimum wage and tax credits, swamped later by the effects of laissez-faire economic policies. Perhaps this recession (or depression) will galvanise this country to organise a more equitable society, with progressive taxation and controls on the behaviour of powerful corporations. I shudder at the thought of a future that continues as it has for the last 30 years.

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  • That should be 1979, not 1989.

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  • Why is Labour sponsoring this petition? The current labour government could just compel RBS to give up this bonus seeing as the UK taxpayer is now their largest shareholder.
    Or are we just seeing the different wings of labour fighting it out in the court of public opinion?
    If this is the case, I rather vote for another completely different lot of rascals altogether in the next general elections.

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  • 14. shining wit said… Look at the Aussie PM, ready to condemn ‘mass-murderers’ even before the fires are out or any real blame can be ascertained, simply because a couple of arrests have been made. This appears to be simply to ‘deflect’ blame from their recent advice for homeowners to defend their own homes and the inability of the Oz government to fight the unfightable.
    The problem is not with the arsonists the problem is with the councils and the greenies. Firstly much of the fauna around the east coast of Australia is a piroclimax (it needs fire to germinate), therefore fire is a natural part of the cycle of life. In the past fires were set off deliberately during the winter to reduce the undergrowth, this in turn reduced the severity of any bush fire. The greenies harped on about co2 gas released from the small fires trying to save the planet, and the councils seeing how much they could save stopped the controlled burn offs. This in turn increased the servility of the fires.
    As with many things the real culprit is not the one lighting the match but the lack of overall control from the relevant body’s to start with.

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  • Shipbuilder – I think the bonuses are a big part of the issue. They represent the culture that has got us into this mess – they are paid for short term profit generation, not long term wealth creation. As long as big bonuses are being paid, people will want to be bankers. People need to be rewarded for doing things which truly progress society. The fact that our hard earned tax is being used to line the pockets of the very people who created this mess will be what sparks riots in the streets.

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  • timmy t – As you say, the culture is the issue – the bonuses are just a manifestation of it. The problem is that we as a society value money moving over creation, innovation etc. Stopping the bonuses will not solve the problem and pretending it will only diverts us from the real issues.

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  • Shipbuilder – we need to have a system whereby there are BIG rewards for bringing benefit to society as a whole – Not just for channeling a greater proportion of the finite supply of wealth to your employers! If the bonus argument provides the catalyst for change, I’d call that a price worth paying.

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  • letthemfall – i’m not sure that regulation as we know is the answer either. In every system there are some fundamental points/flaws that make it work the way it does. Address these and you have a more ‘natural’ regulation – what those who claim to be in favour of a free market should be calling for. Things like a lack of full cost accounting and limited liability are some of the reasons we end up with short-termism, in my opinion.
    People need to understand why the system does not work in the way they expect it to – they get confused as to why we have boom and bust, why there is a wealth gap and start blaming the wrong things – the things that those who benefit from the status quo want us to blame.

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  • How do we create a petition or an action threatening RBS with mass withdrawel of savings, and other business if the bonus situation goes ahead. Could we create a run on the bank and shut these greedy beggars down. We now own a majority in the bank as it was public money used to bail it out, as share holders we should have a say. So either Brown halts the bonus in its tracks or people should start to remove all monies and shut down accounts, that would soon set them on the right track. Give them a choice, BONUS OR JOB.

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  • It’s high time that this labour government got serious and took tough action against the Banks and started penalising them for the mess they have caused as it’s criminal that they are even thinking about giving out bonuses when ordinary people are suffering as all they are worried about is lining there own pockets.
    This country is now in a recession and thousands of innocent people are losing there Jobs and homes and all the Banks can think about is how much bonuses they can get. I find it disgusting and if this labour Government allows this to happen then they will experience the backlash from the public when they call an election next year. Tax payers money is being pumped into the banks and all they can think about is lining there own pockets.
    There is already so much corruption with this Government and it’s cash for questions and now it’s the Big wigs in the Banks getting high pensions and giving out high bonuses to staff for doing such poor job when the rest of us are all suffering the consequences pf the mess they have caused.

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  • RBS should be ashamed to even think of handing out bonuses to staff for doing such a poor job and causing many millions of people to loose there Jobs and homes. Everyone seems to be suffering but them when its the Banks who have caused this mess.
    If any one of us had done such a bad job in our employment we would have been sacked on the spot and all future bonuses and pension payments taken away.
    These people are already paid very high wages for doing their jobs so why give them handout and reward failure so generously.
    Why is this labour government allowing this to happen when tax ;payers money is being pumped into these banks.

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  • I have changed my opinion of Mr Prescott as I think he has the right idea as I am appaled that these Banks can get away with awarding themselves bonuses. It’s the Banks who have caused this mess and it’s them who should be suffering as how can they justify giving out bonuses to staff who have performed so badly.

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  • Stop the bonus culture at the banks and make them work for there money like the rest of us.
    Cut back in the high wages and high pensions they get as well as cheap mortgages and see how they like it.

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  • Unemployed Saver Without Debts says:

    Is anybody organising a real protest march about all this. I have never marched on anything before but feel so strongly about this.

    I am in my late forties have been made redundant finding it hard to get another job with ageism and the economic crisis. Am not entitled to social welfare (nor do i have a problem with that) because I have some savings. I have lived for the last year on my savings and interest from them. but now I have little or no interest coming in. I have never been a big spender always saved and lived within my means. But very soon I will not be able to eat. yet I still pay tax, so that people earning £100k plus for getting the country into this mess, can also be paid bonuses!!!

    I think we need to be more french, and take to the streets – VIVA LA REVOLUTION

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  • This shows the difference between a strong leader and a weak leader.

    Strong – Obama (No gifts from Lobbyists, No Bonuses for Bankers and a Salary Cap)
    Weak – Brown (I appeal to bankers morality no to take a bonus (in cash that is, £2.9 million in shares is no problem)

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  • Spot on John! Its high time someone spoke up for the `little guys’.Make the ********s pay it all back with interest!

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  • The management who have made so much money in the past two years should be stripped of all their personal assets and property . It would be good for these “fat cats” to experience what it is like to be ruined and out of a job. Unfortunately this will not happen, they have too many connections in high places. They have apologised…..that didn`t hurt a bit. After a while they will find themselves in comfortable positions where they can put even more millions into there offshore accounts.

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  • The management who have made so much money in the past two years should be stripped of all their personal assets and property . It would be good for these “fat cats” to experience what it is like to be ruined and out of a job. Unfortunately this will not happen, they have too many connections in high places. They have apologised…..that didn`t hurt a bit. After a while they will find themselves in comfortable positions where they can put even more millions into there offshore accounts.

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  • What kind of people are these bankers that they have the temerity to even think of giving bonuses for such catastrophic failure?

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  • Its time for the British Public to take a stand, if you are not careful you will have riots on your hands for the enormous mess the banks have made, you have ruined a lot of peoples lives.

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  • Working Class Mug says:

    They all should be jailed. Who the hell do these people think they are? They are lucky to be in a job never mind taking bonuses out of money that’s not even theirs. If you’re were working class, they’d call that robbery. The school fees for their children for one term cost more than I earn in a year. This has got to stop now! Too many fat cats on the gravy train.

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  • Feduppensioner says:

    why is Gordon Brown appealing to the bankers morals? They have none! Stop the inhuman bonus culture – make them work for their living like everybody else has to.These bankers are completely out of touch. How did they get to be in charge of banks when they have no banking qualifications? Jobs for the boys I think!

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  • My husband and myself started work in the very early 1960s. Since then we have both worked extremly hard (sometimes up to 85 hours a week) to raise our family and to save for our future retirement, since October last year the managers of the banks that the goverment is having to save have made all our efforts and hard work vurtually worthless, yet each one of them will still have earned more in 2008 than we have earned in our entire working lives and I am sure that the future they look forward to will be a great deal more comfortable than ours.
    These so called MANAGERS saying sorry is not enough, they should all be made more accountable not only recieving bonuses they should be made to repay the bonuses they have recieved .Years ago a leader that made these sort of disasterous blunders would have been expected to fall upon his sword, now they fall upon a great pile of cash and pensions making it a very comfortable landing.

    We fully agree with your coments this morning on Breakfast Television that banks should not be held to pay out contracted bonuses because as you said the same banks would not be in existance now if not for the billions of pounds poured in by tax payers like ourselves.
    Do you best for us John
    Regards Maggie & John Gumbley

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  • I aggree with Mr Prescott that the bonous culture as lost its way.In times of non profit making, its totally unacceptable for any organisation that these absurd bonouses should be paid out and it is my view that there could be no legal challenge by these greedy banker executives or their staff as any contracts would be obsolete in any case. So come on who are they trying to fool.If anything the bankers who contributed massively to the mess we are in now shopuld offerto pay back a percentage of their past illgotten gains in the same way that criminals have to with the cab.

    Just because they are bankers does not carry any more respectability than the fraudsters who takes milions illegally from their victims. The bankers knew what they were doing but, they decided to line their pockets first whilst keeping a shut eye to what was going on at the same time, and wobetide anyone that got in the way to warn them. They either lost their job and were gagged so that they could continue thir dodgy dealings that brought fat rewards for themselves alone. They should be brought before the courts for the losses that people have incurred as a result.

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  • Irate Pensioner says:

    Contracts, bonuses, what right do they have to expect to benefit from either of these, let them be satisfied that they walked away from this mess that they created with a job and let them think about the thousands that they have put out of work because of thier greed. It’s about time they were paid a normal salary that they have to WORK for. Let them try managing on unemployement benefit or the state pension, perhaps they would have a different outlook.

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  • they should be made to pay it back there wages should be caped in futrue the money these banker where earning was out of this world and should have been stooped along time ago i would have given them a jail sentance so other do not try to do this again with other peoples money thank you

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  • The financial services market has been consumed by the evil of greed. The Financial Sevices Authority allowed it to happen, and were concerned only with their own bonus culture. The government must hang it’s head in shame along with the bankers who have confessed, but taken the money anyway.Good to see that John Prescot is having a rest from croquet to do something useful

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  • It is an utter disgrace ! Why should these people be rewarded ( with our money ) for a job done badly. They have lost us all and the Country a great deal owing to their incompetence and had they been in any other job they would all be instantly dismissed. It seems there is one rule for them and another for the ordinary hard working man in the street. Sack the lot of them !

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  • send all bankers to the falkland islands,,, send all politicians to hmmmm. i will think about it.. any ideas

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  • It would be taken seriously if others from across the political spectrum who are recognised as “super squeaky clean” in past and present actions were making such statements. For this lump of of lard given his history of thieving salaries and so called related expenses while pretending to be a politician is farcical. It is right that these bankers should be called to account but to see him “flashing” wads of paper responses in front of lightweight interviewer Bill Reid on breakfast time TV without a stong riposte is very dissapointing. Perhaps even a mild query about the number of negative responses he has received or even has he given up “flashing”(administratively speaking)now that he has departed government.Gordon Brown is clearly on the proverbial ropes,the last thing he needs is this oaf raising his head again.Heres to an egg J.P.may many more come your way.

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  • Raymond Dunford says:

    re the bonuses for the fatcats, at R B S that if they don’t get them they will sue so take back the taxpayers money let them go bust THEN who will they sue for their bonuses

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  • Allan Iceton says:

    just leave it up to the public to knock some sence into the bank we doing a good job up to now !!!

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