Tuesday, November 11, 2008

Idiot

Brown ready to borrow to boost economy

At some point all this money will need to be paid back, this is the most stupid thing i have ever heard.....

Posted by mark @ 03:53 PM (4031 views)
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33 thoughts on “Idiot

  • I despise Brown.

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  • I despise the people that can’t see through him.

    You gotta hand it to the man – he’s a great at hoodwinking people. He’s only looking as far as the next election. God knows what he will do if he wins it!

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  • Yes jackas, this is the ultimate con. I have a horrible suspicion that significant numbers of voters actually approve of what he is doing! We need a really vicious HPC to shock the sheep.

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  • expect taxes to hit 50% soon

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  • i remember the 90`s says:

    I was quite shocked by the debt clock on itv last night 4 grand a second ,scary times for my kids !!!!!!!

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  • And the market response?

    Equities down heavily and Gilts down heavily also, which is a rare combination – not to mention the £..

    The problem with this talk of rampant borrowing is that someone has to have the money to lend. With so many governments treading the same path, the supply side of sovereign stock issue is going to be immense, and will only be taken up if the nett return to the investors is far greater than that of recent years.

    I would not be surprised if the yield on UK index linked gilts rose above 5%, and the price of UK 2055 treasury Gilts fell by half.

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  • Am I right in saying that as a proportion of GDP our borrowing is not has bad as many other countries. Italy is at 60% US is higher etc. They keep saying by “some measures” we are worse but look at France whose public sector pension/wages bill is Gigantic compared to ours. UK plc has some assets at least. It is important to look at our trading partners when assessing how much we are likely to suffer a recession….

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  • planning4acrash says:

    No Mark, taxes to reach zero, when corporate earnings are below taxation, when more people are on benefits and pensions than are earning, then all state spending, like Iraq, will be off balance monetized debt. Enter into the Orwellian nightmare.

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  • mark “At some point all this money will need to be paid back, this is the most stupid thing i have ever heard…..”

    regardless of whether or not it is paid back, (unlikely) we will have pay the interest on it. Unless of course they create the interest at the same time (absolutely no effin chance whatsoever ! in fact you can bank on it!)

    How STUPID is that?

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  • My grandfather – under similar clowns – paid 19/6p in the pound at the highest rate [i.e. he was left with a sixpence!]
    The last time, yet again – under these similar clowns – I paid, at the top rate of tax = 60%
    That was in the early 80s. Thankfully – being in the offshore oil industry – I was paid in dollars [at a time when it virtually reached parity with the pound!] and I lived in Malta!!
    My suggestions: Not the dollar this time, obviously!
    But, either get out of this cesspit, called GB, and head East, at least, financially, if not physically!!
    Thankfully, there will be a certain amount of breathing space, to gets ones house in order, because of the manipulation by our glubbermint, and also the concept of “one last fling towards Christmas”!! After that, heaven help us all!
    P.S. Really serious thinking and action are really imminently required! ATB.

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  • how long do we have to wait for someone to actually address the real problem and cause of this whole mess house prices caused this mess they were over valued making people borrow more and more stretching their finances to breaking point all over the world so the answer is really really simple drop house prices to there true value if not we are never going to see the end of this mess

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  • @maddison

    The problem is what do you call a borrowing? PFI is a great example of off-balance sheet future liability. Also, just what exactly do the other countries include in their figures? You can bet it will be different from UK – so Browns comments making great headlines, but poor analysis.

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  • I perhaps need to clarify my position, in the light of all this talk of “tax cuts” It is an illusion!
    Labour/Liberal ALWAYS tax, tax, tax, to spend on – virtually always – dross. The fallacious argument “rob the rich to pay the poor” “Champagne socialists” bleed us to “feather their own nests” [as do ALL politicians! ]
    Re: interest rate cuts – How much coverage have we had – on any level – re: the disastrous effect that will result on savers!?
    Use the next few months to re-organise, and hopefully retain, some of your morally acquired wealth, before moral hazard, after moral hazard…. piles up to “legally” rob; dump you on the “ash-pile;” smile; and watch you in dereliction; as everything goes down the tubes. ATB

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  • The Labour Soap Opera
    By Mark Schmitt, New America Foundation
    The American Prospect | April 30, 2006

    It would be disappointing if Brown never has the chance to show what he can do with the full reins of power, for it is he who offers the ideal model for U.S. progressives: an understanding that economic growth is a necessary condition but that government must actively intervene to ensure that prosperity is broadly shared. The U.K. has experienced the longest period of sustained prosperity in its modern history, yet unlike the United States and most other western economies, since 2000 — thanks to fair tax and social policies income — inequality declined, and the country made progress on Labour’s promise to abolish child poverty. That achievement is Brown’s, and proves that the U.S. model of radically increasing inequality is not inevitable. If Blair and Brown can cancel the soap opera before it destroys their careers, perhaps — returning the favor by which Clinton helped Blair devise the triangulations of New Labour — Brown as prime minister can help Americans see the path to a new and vigorous progressivism, in which the benefits of economic growth are broadly shared.

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  • Maddison – You cannot compare debt figures because so much of the UK debt is off balance sheet. Thanks to financial innovation at the highest level. Public sector pensions, PFI, Network Rail, Nuclear decomissioning are all off balance sheet. Plus there is the refinancing (thus far) of the banks. There is another bottomless pit. The public sector debt is about 543 billion. Public sector pensions alone come in at 1071 billion. If we take in to account these items our actual percentage of debt to GDP is 129% (That even excludes the bank bailouts). You also have to realise that our GDP is on the slide much faster than other countries.

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  • Woeful leadership, a total dearth of ideas and inept governance for more than a decade – in short the textbook case study of how not to run a country.

    Tory’s won’t be any better.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The question of tax is irrelevant without factoring in growth in the money supply, because, any growth in the money supply takes away wealth we would otherwise have had, so inflation of the money supply, not price inflation, plus taxation = the cost of government. So, we should move towards a total cost of government measure. Growth in the money supply plus inflation. Infact, I’ll start collating it and publish a graph every now and then.

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  • Well Guy’s I’ve waded through 15 comments so far and I think its now fair to say we are well and truly stuffed – technical economics term (I’ll hold off using the F word)

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  • jack c – hey come on, it’s not so bad. Just think, Montague Norman could be governor of the bank of england, the Jarrow marhces could be starting up, the ship yards closed and the QE2 on its way to . . – ah! I see what you mean.

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  • Ch 4 Mon 17th 8pm – The Ascent Of Money.

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  • renting2 – nice one –

    Hix’s establishment, which opened earlier this year, is just one of countless new ventures that are reinventing themselves in response to the global financial crisis. My favourite example is Robert Peston’s book, Who Run’s Britain?. On being published in hardback last February, this primer about the UK’s super-rich was subtitled “How Britain’s New Elite Are Changing Our Lives”. When the paperback version came out last week, the subtitle had been changed to “and Who’s to Blame for the Economic Mess We’re in”.

    At least Niall Ferguson – Channel 4’s answer to Robert Peston – has had a chance to reconceptualise his latest project in the light of present circumstances. Next week sees the launch of The Ascent of Money – a TV series as well as an accompanying book – which the publicity people at Channel 4 are billing as a response to the current crisis. “Coming in the wake of more than a year of extraordinary turbulence in world financial markets, The Ascent of Money could hardly be better timed,” says the press release. But if the timing is so perfect, why on earth is the programme entitled The Ascent of Money? Shouldn’t it be called The Decline of Money?

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  • bah humbug [email protected] journalism is not even on life support

    “The Ascent of Money? Shouldn’t it be called The Decline of Money?”

    ‘decent’ please

    decent journalism would have referred to ‘descent’

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  • and another thing, how the sgsyurtgg – do they (them wot advertise on HPC) know we have big bellies?

    see advert top of page

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  • malct, I get an ad for Butlins cos’ I aint got a big belly.

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  • I had a big belly before I started here

    does that mean this site attracts people with big bellies?

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  • I got an ad for housing market investment. Not at the moment ta.

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  • phd bubbles – yup it’s a time share advert methinks

    and it’s not just here

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  • quick it’s back again – a banner adv

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  • be patient it’s a rolling thingybob

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  • spooky! how do they know that?

    23. enuii said…
    malct, I get an ad for Butlins cos’ I aint got a big belly.

    Tuesday, November 11, 2008 07:29PM

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  • There is a lot of Anti-Brown on this site and you are not going to get me defending him per se. But, he understands – for the first time – what needs to be done. The worst part of the UK debt is not public sector as the Tories make out, it is private debt. Something the media still does not get its head around, hence the calls to save the housing market – which are simply calls to get private individuals borrowing more, again. That is idiocy. We need the government involved in the economy. To all those who say, the (public sector) debt will have to be paid back eventually, it’s time you realised Anything now will cost – Even the banks have run out of money: the global system is Kaputt! It’s gonna be expensive to clean it up.
    We ‘1st time buyers’ may not like this government that allowed house prices to rocket, but what other show is in town? The tories haven’t a clue. It’s their economic philosohy (lapped up by NuLabour) that has just died. They haven’t an idea what to do, they believed in it wholly and have never considered alternatives. They can only claim it is all because of public sector debt. It’s not. And using government to create jobs in the short-term will be less costly than paying 3 m to pick up the dole every fortnight. My parents lost their job in the NorthWest in the 1980s, it’s nasty, very nasty. And don’t worry, whatever happens, house prices are dust, the banks have no money.

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  • I think Brown is on a disaster course. The previous 30 posts don’t seem to disagree.

    What then is the best option for the UK? Cameron wants to cut taxes and make giveaways too.

    Are any of our current political parties going to make things better, or is it just an opportunity for them to put contracts in the direction of their sponsors?

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  • Stop fretting, Interesting times. We are on a schedule. Enjoy life! Go visit the countryside with your families.

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