Wednesday, October 22, 2008

Instead of bailing out banks invest in our future

Wind farms: Britain has enough offshore to provide power to 300,000

"In a special video message played at the London conference Gordon Brown said Britain had the best wind and wave resources in Europe and had now overtaken Denmark as the largest producer of offshore wind in the world." I agree Crash, now put some of our money where your mouth is.

Posted by mountain goat @ 01:37 PM (1174 views)
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24 thoughts on “Instead of bailing out banks invest in our future

  • mountain goat says:

    Sorry to be off topic, but I for one am getting sick of all the doom and gloom gleefully posted here. I too am guilty of this. So this goat is turning over a new leaf.

    The credit markets are broken, private money has run to the hills. So do we all lose our jobs, give up and buy guns? I say use my tax money to develop a sustainable future. Using wind and wave power is one way. Use my tax money to do research locally, manufacture the devices here in the UK.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    I’d much rather see clean, regulated Welsh coal mines reopen whilst we still import dirty Chinese coal. These wind farms are nothing more than a corporate land grab. Nothing to do with fake environmentalism and the fraud of global warming.

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  • @mountain goat – interestingly this topic was part of todays PM’s questions – specifically “Wind farm tower firm is forced to close with 91 jobs lost” have a look at an article in today’s Herald

    http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2426941.0.Wind_farm_tower_firm_is_forced_to_close_with_91_jobs_lost.php

    Scotland’s biggest maker of wind farm towers is set to close with the loss of 91 jobs. Danish giant Vestas yesterday said it had launched “consultations” with workers at its factory near Campbeltown, which opened in 2002 thanks to more than £10m in public investment.The announcement comes as a huge blow to the south Kintyre economy – and to the Scottish Government’s ambitions to be at the forefront of renewable technology. The Herald understands jobs will be shed over six months with the first redundancies taking effect as early as November…………………………………….

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  • P4C – Get your act together – You are incapable of constructing a coherant sentance. Every statement you made contradicted itself.
    “I’d much rather see clean, regulated Welsh coal mines reopen whilst we still import dirty Chinese coal” – I presume you mean instead of.
    “These wind farms are nothing more than a corporate land grab.” – Offshore wind farms – sea grab?
    “Nothing to do with fake environmentalism and the fraud of global warming.” – to support your argument you either have to drop “Nothing to do with” OR Fake and Fraud.

    In any case irrespective of whether fossil fuels add to climate change – what is the rush to use them all up. 3 billion years in the making, 2 hundred years in the p!ssing away.

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  • mountain goat says:

    jack c how sad that is to lose jobs in this industry. Thanks for the post. Maybe I should lobby Crash to bail them out.

    P4C lets not go down the global warming argument right now. I agree that we should re-open British coal mines as well. This is economically viable now as the pound drops. Wind turbines do have problems too with bird-life for example. But still I think research into limiting these would be money well spent. Do you object to wave power as well?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    I support the free market. With oil manipulated all over the place by derivatives trading, alternatives can’t get off the ground. News flash, Welsh and Northern coal was well regulated and clean relative to Chinese coal. Many Chinese mining deaths also.

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  • Wind power can be useful for electricity generation, but it’s pretty useless for home heating and hot water. We’d still be reliant on fossil fuels (mainly gas in the UK) for home heating. Unless you like living in damp.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    i will get into the science of global warming. Polar bears can swim 300miles. They don’t drown on melting ice! Their number boomed since 1970, look it up. Google: mises the fraud of global warming, and, look at the climate&state podcast on lewrockwell.com

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  • theboltonfury says:

    mr Goat – I am with you and admire your sentiment

    even my wife is beginning to think all I talk about is death, chaos and destruction – she’s right too. It’s time to take a look at myself in the mirror and say ‘Fury, get busy living or get busy dying’, slap myself hard in the face and embrace what we have

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  • mountain goat says:

    p4c I thought you of all people would respond to a more sustainable life-style. As Holding Out pointed out, destroying our fossil fuels in a few hundred years is just another example of our blind greed. Whether global warming is man made or not, burning a valuable resource like oil is pretty short-sighted when you see all the other valuable uses it has. You support free market, well try getting a loan at the moment! Free market capital is on strike as everyone knows. I think the sustainable energy industry needs public finance support in this environment.

    Bolton, thanks. Us House Price Crash people should be happy, we are finally getting what we want. Stuff the gloom…

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Nah, the UK being self sufficient in coal is about self sufficiency. If we adopted a gold standard, prices would be stable and people could afford to invest in self sufficiency at home. The word, sustainability is pure UN propaganda that means dependency

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  • A lot of green policies don’t make sense if we try and maintain a certain standard of living. GDP across the world is directly proportional to oil use (data in the online CIA book of facts). The only countries where it isn’t on the same proportion are those which are in or have just had wars and, err, the UK- whose GDP jumped without an increase in energy demand compared to the rest of the EU a year before our economy fell apart.

    Asking for an 80% cut in fossil fuel (current UK policy) must mean a drop in GDP and standards of living unless fuel efficiency jumps by 5 times. This isn’t going to happen.

    Wind power and other renewables seem like saviours until you take in to account their costs. In my opinion if they cost more than the equivalent fossil fuel then somewhere there is a whole load of energy being used (probably by the people that make or service them who uses fuel just like anyone else). The tax subsidies for wind power have been massive while the power outputs haven’t. The money would have been better spent on energy efficiency research.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Alternatives don’t thrive, because the coal & oil industry are subsidised by government. Hemp oil was taking over in USA until it was banned! But government lie & come out for subsidising alternatives. Oil gets 500bn, solar gets 10m. Its a big fat joke!

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  • theboltonfury says:

    p4ac – we will never have the gold standard again because there are too many people and not enough gold to back it. It is a finite resource you know

    the only people that want the gold standard are the people who have taken the plunge by buying gold, everyone else can either see it’s nonsense or at best totally unachievable

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  • An extremely off topic post but I’ll bite!

    I notice that the conference quoted 3 gigawatts of CAPACITY. That is very different from 3 gigawats of OUTPUT. Because of the variations in the wind (blowing too hard – shut down turbine, not blowing hard enough – less generation, maintenance – no output at all) wind turbines generate about 25-35% of their capacity (inshore 25%, offshore 35%). Therefore the 3 gigawatts quoted will actually end up as no more than 1 gigawatt of output. Christopher Booker in the Sunday Telegraph has been banging on about this for ages. The whole wind generation business is a giant con.

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  • george monsoon says:

    Given the current power consumption, unfortunately the only solution at present is Nuclear.

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  • What’s not a con though is that oil and gas are finite resources which will run out. And if all we do is criticise alternative energy sources and look for reasons not to develop them, then the day will come when we are all f*cked.

    P4aC – Polar Bears can swim 300 miles – are you suggesting that its fine if all the ice melts because the Polar Bears can swim to land?

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  • goweresque – Having read this damning piece by George Monbiot re Christopher Booker – in which he dubs Booker the ‘Patron Saint of Charlatans’ – I’m extremely sceptical about what he writes.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/23/controversiesinscience.health

    (Though you may well be right about the 3 GW capacity = 1 GW output – I wouldn’t know.)

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  • What a depressing thread. Article is off topic but interesting I think – and surprise surprise it rapidly degenerates into yet another argument between the tinfoil hat brigade and everyone else. This is what it’s come to on this site – serious discussions with people who think global warming is an invention of some New World Order. These are the same people who’ve hijacked countless threads and dragged them into discussions on monatomic gold, the mayan calendar, water powered cars, and 9/11 conspiracy porn for the uneducated.

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  • p4ac – in post 2 you object to alternatives and prefer coal because you don’t like the people promoting them, then in post 12, you complain that the government are promoting fossil fuels instead of alternatives.

    So which is it? Would you prefer the UK to be permanently self-sufficient or not?
    Perhaps, since you think environmentalism is a scam, we should all load up with V8 4x4s and keep our heating on 24/7? Let’s tarmac over the rest of the UK, so that business can supply us with every whim that we demand……

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  • Wind turbine blades are produced locally. It takes 22 years to recover the energy used in the manufacture of each blade. After that it starts to pay for its self. It also keeps locals in jobs so what is the harm in going along with all this green subsidy stuff ?

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  • Pelethar, I agree in part with your points. I do wish that the posts and discussions could be a little more critical and reserved at times.

    But at the same time I can understand why the threads so commonly go the way they do. Mainsteam media is a lot of spin at best and the recognition of that was what started this site off. The conclusion is that nobody can realistically have faith in either the news or the people entrusted with regulating our lives so the resulting lack of trust is a problem of their (and perhaps our) own making. And lets be honest the integrity of people who run things and our history is at best questonable!! With a crash underway, I really can’t think of a better place to discuss this stuff as its the input of yourself and others like you that help balance the debate (as opposed to a dedicated conspiracy site where likeminded individuals would just reinforce each others views).

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  • Interesting points unplugged

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