Saturday, September 6, 2008

The human cost of HPC

Suicide of father worried by mortgage repayments

Recording a suicide verdict at the inquest in Llangefni, Dewi Pritchard-Jones, the North West Wales Coroner, said: “It is becoming an increasingly common feature in cases like these for there to be mortgage problems because of the economic situation.

Posted by quiet guy @ 11:35 AM (1364 views)
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19 thoughts on “The human cost of HPC

  • This sort of thing is terrible. The authorities think pushing massive debt onto people is a good thing. I don’t see how this guy felt the ‘feelgood factor’.

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  • Strange how this sort of thing effects different people.

    When I was in this situation I enjoyed telling the banks to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.

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  • “mortgage problems because of the economic situation”

    NNNNNNNNNooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    other way round you idiot!!!!

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  • I suppose the degradation of losing one’s job and home is overwhelming for some in todays society. Very sad story and not one that should be repeated as the Coroner is expecting.

    I think nickolarge @2 has a point, but a lot of inner strength is required.
    The authorities should look seriously at ‘harassment’ and not turn a blind eye in such cases. Coroners should make a strong point of this in their verdicts. We have a Duty toward eachother.

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  • Money, the route of all evil. The route of all despair?

    This is a sad story that is likely to be repeated over and over. Men aren’t the best communicators, I wonder how many are teetering on the brink.

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  • Titaniccaptin you’re of course correct – Perhaps some people won’t ever see thru the smoke and mirrors. I try to explain (often very poorly and make myself seem very negative) what’s going with HPi,fractional reserve banking,SiV’s etc but it’s as if some people are driven by their desires to an extent that risk is perceived in a different way to them. I think we as humans have evolved with this seemingly naive trait (let’s not forget often these people are very intelligent) to prevent stagnation.

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  • @titaniccaptain

    “most of us were lucky enough to have the foresight to see the tidal wave of economic problems heading our way”

    A few years ago, I hadn’t a clue. I have stumbled through most of my life without the faintest idea about how banking operates or the draconian UK laws about recovering mortgage debts and things that bailiffs can legally do to debtors. With hindsight, I think of my past personal financial management as akin to a drunk crossing a motorway – it worked out due to a bit of luck but could not be commended. I assume that most people around me are similarly uninformed (why don’t we teach banking in schools?) and maybe a few of them are going to be hit hard in the next few years.

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  • 4. titaniccaptain said…
    “Something we should remember on this site is that most of us were lucky enough to have the foresight to see the tidal wave of economic problems heading our way”

    Er, big, big generalisation there TC. It is a terrible situation. People appear to have been driven by both greed and because they can’t keep up with the jones’ in attempting to buy a house. I would also hazard a guess, titaniccaptain, that there are lots of people in my situation. I haven’t bought anything since the 80s because of the last crash. I was getting re-educated between 1999 and 2003 and couldn’t afford to buy when it might have been prudent to and by 2004 there was NO WAY I was buying into the market when I thought the crash was coming. I might have been able to if the market wasn’t full of tossers prepared to pay 20-30% more than the next chap to buy a home. I didn’t sell my home at the peak to rent (I think many people here were also prudent enough no to buy into the madness) and it is precisely those people who helped ramp up the market (Thanks kurtsie and the pornstars, the guv’mint for not slowing things and the money lenders for allowing it to happen – if the hadn’t lent the money it couldn’t of continued) who have fooked the market. The constant speculation, the amateur developers, the greed, the “money for nothing” generation.

    I have absolutely NO sympathy for this pathetic LITTLE man. If he indeed did kill his OWN CHILD and wife the I wish I wasn’t an atheist because I would want hell to exist so he could spend eternity there. I feel sorry for your situation TC as it appears your father tried his utmost to do the right thing and became embroiled in the task of trying to make things better. He didn’t destroy his family for some obtuse and crass reason (he couldn’t face it, oh diddums). This property crash is going to become a CRISIS and that is becasue people kept buying into the property “dream”. The kept playing the numbers game when the numbers were getting bigger and bigger. People actually bought proprties they KNEW they couldn’t afford, they just relied on the annual increases and Mortgage Equity Release to dig themselves out of the sh!t. A shameless and dangerous business model at best, reckless endangerment with family finances at worst. I’ve been renting since 1988. Thousands and thousands of pounds because I either wasn’t in the position to or wasn’t prepared to take on a mortgage of astronomical proportions. I’m now in a different position but, what-dya-know the property market is now fooked again, and again, I cant take the risk. I’m going to have to wait, again, because I can’t buy in a plummeting market. I wish all these people would fook off and leave this market alone. It’s notr a piggy bank, its about having a home of YOUR OWN. It’s about buiying somewhere you want to stay in for YEARS not 2 or 3. It’s about somewhere to bring up KIDS in. Not pay for nice cars and holidays with. IT’s a LONG TERM investment, not a way to impress your friends or A FRIGGIN PENSION.

    I have absolutely no sympathy for people who, not even bothering to research, bought into this market without the ability to see where it was going. Tough titty.

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  • nooneo – you should read the article before jumping off into the deep end but I guess we all make mistakes.

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  • nooneo… this crash will sort all these problems out.. they will come at a price (a very big one too). As well as suicides, expect family homocide to increase also, prostitution, drugs, drink, rioting, it is coming like Hurricane Ike to a neighbourhood near you. As for the police, well as long as they are not in harms way or politicians or the select few, things will be fine. In truth money does really awful things to people, but I believe things will ultimately work-out for the better. Let’s face it, the next few years are going to be terrible, and when the carnage is over, people will move forward, but this time in a more thoughtful manner and maybe we will have a government that actually governs.

    P.S. Just off topic, it seems the US Navy are on the move. Maybe the housing market crash is a mere distraction from what will happen elsewhere. As we are too embroiled in our own interdependent misery and suffering to care or do or say anything. Think of the cost of fuel as an example – Where were the protests at £1.21 a litre?

    P.P.S. Stock up on Gas Cylinders, Camping Gas Stoves & Heaters for this Christmas. If you have a wood burning stove, you are lucky.

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  • Oops, sorry my post was directed at the idiot in Shropshire. I had a very late night working last night and forgot to read the article, thought it was more onn the Foster chap, again very sorry if I offended.

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  • My condolences to the family. A needless victim by irresponsible bankers, government & all parties complicit in this 21st Century scam.

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  • The only education on finance that the people truly need is to have ‘neither a lender nor borrower be’ rammed down their throats from the earliest age possible. Then be constantly told that anyone who offers loans is a shark to be avoided.

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  • @12. Stevie Dee said…

    “Let’s face it, the next few years are going to be terrible, and when the carnage is over, people will move forward, but this time in a more thoughtful manner and maybe we will have a government that actually governs.”

    If history teaches us anything, it must be that the human race do not learn from history. How many times in the last 60 years have we been promised an end to ‘boom & bust’ ? Yet the same mistakes are repeated over and over again. I wholly agree the high potential for ‘carnage’ (social disintegration) in the major western economies but have no optimism for anything other than the same destructive cycle starting again once the dust has settled – in about 30 years time.

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  • I hope I didn’t offend going off on one in my earlier post.

    What we need now is for all parties to try and do something to stop this boom bust cycle being so enormous. I can’t see the next tory government (foregone conclusion) doing anything to stop it. I feel absolutely cheated by GORDON BROWN. I did actually take him on his word when he said “I will not let the property market go through the BOOM & BUST cycle again” – He did practically nothing to stop it. The FSA did NOTHING. He as chancellor did NOTHING. The money lenders did NOTHING and the greedy population did NOTHING. There was a rerun of “Phril and Kurtsie’s property guide” the other day and that sanctimonious bitch actually said “When did £250,000 become not enough to buy a 1 bed flat in London” – I’ll tell you Kurtsie, about the same time as you were pursuading people that £200,000 won’t find you a 1 bed flat in London. The reason estate agents are HATED so much is because they do the valuations, they pursuade people to BUY or SELL at a given price. They don’t make people buy, but the whole system is just a farce. We should all get worried when property prices rise by more then 10% in any given 12 month period.

    The madness that is the UK property market will never, ever end unless someone CHANGES it. I really hope that a Land Value Tax is considered but I aint holding my breath. So I guess it’s “see y’all in 10 or 15 years time for the next house price boom“. Politicians love them, it gives them at least 2 terms of office.

    “What did you do in the property boom grandad”
    “Oh, I was chancellor and then Prime Minister little one”

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  • Oh and Mrs Nooneo loves telling all how much of an opinionated git I am….. and she’s right. Although I do tell her that the trouble with the world is that, where being opinionated is a problem, not having one is downright irresponsible !

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  • The sad thing about this story is that he could not see a way forward. People quickly label things as good or bad, but you never know what really is good or bad because you never know what the next moment, next day or next year might bring.

    Some thoughts on luck, wisdom and circumstance…

    at the moment, I feel very fortunate. In 2007 my partner and I each sold our homes and intended to buy one together, the only reason being that our relationship felt ready for us to live together. We had the wisdom to market the houses at 5-10% off the ever growing bubble prices to ensure they would sell quickly – we put them up in January and had completed on both by June. But we didn’t feel we were having much luck in finding a home to buy. Through luck, our houses had accrued a nice lump of equity, and we put over £200k in the bank and through circumstance we moved in with my partners parents. I lost count of how many houses I viewed last year. We found 3 houses that felt like ‘home’ – but all seemed over priced and our offers around 10% off asking price were turned down. We were getting really down and despondant, and although it didn’t seem like it at the time, we were actually very lucky that nobody accepted these offers. It was also lucky that my partner’s dad got the Telegraph (can you imagine where I might be if he got the Express!!) every day, and through the wisdom of wanting to know what was happening in the property market I started reading the financial articles. One article mentioned Propertysnake, through wisdom I went onto the website and luckily there was a link to this website. Through wisdom I started regularly visiting HPC and reading the newsblog. The circumstance of living with my partner’s parents was getting a little wearing for all of us, so through circumstance we decided to rent a place – and as luck would have it one of our friends told us he had an empty house we could have for a very reasonable rent. Living in the circumstance of ‘temporary accommodation’ for longer than we had anticipated, my partner kept pushing me to consider houses on the market – through wisdom, I kept gently but firmly telling him that we would be better off waiting because I thought that prices would fall significantly. That was Jan/Feb 2008. We are still renting our friend’s property and still have money in the bank. Wisely we have spread have spread the money around different accounts so it is as safe as it can be under FSA compensation rules, but in the circumstances of a full scale banking collapse we do not know how lucky we might be in not suffering a loss.

    I am 43, and until 18 months ago I didn’t know a great deal about the housing market. Until then I had always said I wish I had pushed myself further financially, to take more advantage of rising house prices but I always erred on the side of caution and never took as big a mortgage as I could have – in some circumstances some might have called this wisdom, some might have said I was unwise not to stretch my finances further. Until last year I had never been particularly lucky with property, making a 20% loss when I sold my house to get married in the mid 90’s (I had the wisdom to get divorced, the luck to meet my current parner and the wisdom to stay with him!). My 20% loss was through my lack of wisdom – I didn’t know what sort of a market I was buying into, or out of, and I spent far too much money ‘doing up’ an ex council house, in a bad area, that I bought off a private owner.

    So, at the moment I feel very fortunate. I feel I got here through luck, wisdom and circumstance – and it’s hard to say how much each has had a part to play.

    We all make choices and have to accept the consequences of those choices. We have the choice to find out about matters that will affect our lives, and the choice to live in ignorance and denial. We choose which media to read, listen to and watch, and we choose who to listen to, and who to dismiss. But everything we do carries some element of risk, as we never know what might happen tommorrow – good or bad – and even our best planning, reasearch and wisdom may not counter circumstance or luck. The way forward is to remember that when we find ourselves in a hole we have the choice to use our wisdom to find a safe way out – maybe luck and circumstances will help us or maybe they will hinder. But also remember, while you are wisely scrutinising the dangers that lurk in one hole, and making sure you don’t fall in, luck and circumstance might bring you to stumble into another that you didn’t have the wisdom to forsee.

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  • When bad things happen to me it normally takes me less than half an hour to get used to it and move on.

    I sold my house because I was forced to. The end result? I got out at the peak and ended up renting a house better than the one I sold.

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  • There will be more sad stories as the next year unfolds……..

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