Tuesday, August 26, 2008

Couple raffle off their Devon Estate for £25 per ticket

Devon estate for sale in raffle

A couple from Devon are hoping to beat the property slump by raffling off their home. Brian and Wendy Wilshaw are selling the tickets for £25, but the winner could become the new owner of a £1m estate.

Posted by soundman74 @ 01:41 PM (14785 views)
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47 thoughts on “Couple raffle off their Devon Estate for £25 per ticket

  • That will be 40,000 tickets then – easy.

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  • Interesting idea (nice of the BBC to give them free publicity). However, before I parted with my cash, I would want to see that the process was not rigged (in favour of friends/distant relations). The couple hope to sell 46,000 tickets, which is £1,150,000. However, the property is “valued” at £1M (although as it has not sold for over a year, so the real value is clearly lower). Me thinks they are trying it on… good luck to ’em.

    Sign of desperate times.

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  • japanese uncle says:

    What if only 1000 tickets were sold, then can they cancel everything refunding the money? Or are they prepared to give away their house at only 25K?

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  • @ japanese uncle said…

    There’s closing date for the competition in December 08. If the 46000 tickets have not been sold by then then the prize is a cash alternative made up from the revenue made from the raffle ticket sales less their [The couples] costs – legal etc. in other words if only 45000 tickets are sold then £1,125,000 less costs will be given to the winning ticket holder.

    Ticket sales were at 19,686 when I last loooked

    For me it was a no-brainer.

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  • it might only be worth 25 quid in a couple of years..lol

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  • This has been done before. And failed before. I think the owners (last time) had to begrudgingly return all money paid and the draw never went ahead. Apparently they’ve sold 20k tickets though…

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  • This was done in the last property crash, don’t know how successfully though. Wonder if stamp duty is payable? after all the purchase price was only £25 guv. Then you could MEW ……… .

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  • george monsoon says:

    Its got to be worth 25 quid.. you can’t even have a decent night out on less than 50 quid now adays.

    where do you buy the tickets?

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  • If the sellers can find at least 40,000 gamblers then good luck to them. As for the hopeful buyers…. well at least its mathematically better than playing the National Lottery.

    In the Lotto, for every £1 ticket bought 50p goes to prize winners; 28p goes to the “good causes”; 12p goes to the Treasury; 5p in commission to the lottery retailers; 4.5p to the lottery operator (Camelot) for operating costs; and 0.5p profit to the lottery operator.

    In Brian & Wendy Wilshaw’s house lottery, 87p goes towards the prize and just 13p goes to cover costs / profit / etc.

    Lotteries aren’t for me, but if you’re going to gamble this certainly makes more sense than the Lotto.

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  • george monsoon says:

    This is the website on which the tickets are being sold…
    You have to answer an extremely simple question in order to buy a ticket at the same price as the answer..

    http://www.winadevonpropertywithfishing.co.uk/

    I have bought one.. the odds are much better than the national lottery and to be honest if (by any miracle) I did win the house, I wouldn’t care if it fell in value because I own it outright and it looks like a damn fine place.

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  • this is very similar to one on yorkshire a few years ago, wonder what happened to my 50quid!!

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  • does anyone know the answer to this?

    What is the cost of an adult full season coarse fishing licence for 2008/2009?

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  • Still-waiting says:

    @japanese uncle… they can’t lose! Either they get way above the value of the house, or they just hold a raffle for a cash prize using the cash from ticket sales. Genius. And they can probably pay themselves some ‘admin fees’ or suchlike.

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  • the catchier site name win-property.co.uk has already gone. No wonder they had to go with the lengthy alternative.

    I guess if it is reported on the BBC it must be fairly kosha. I notice the “entries so far” box – that will give you an idea of the odds of winning and how much they actually make. Interesting – might bookmark that one.

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  • well i bought 2 tickets and they are numbered 66k

    and the number is from 46k

    so far 20k entries…

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  • Pascal (raffle. It) says:

    If anyone’s thinking of replicating Brian and Wendy they should contact us at Raffle.it. We’re busy creating the raffle based alternative to eBay. We’ve got a platform that brands have been using for a while. Come see.

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  • this is not a new idea

    so there must be a track record somewhere

    is it unregulated?

    what if every seller did the same thing?

    is there scope for a new breed of estate agent here?

    I’m pretty sure there have been websites offering this as a service for years

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  • If they don’t get all the entries, then the winner gets 65% of the take. Better than average for a raffle I suppose.

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  • japanese uncle says:

    malct

    Absolutely true. Nowadays, you can do this yet another form of gamble, the unregulated housing raffle over the internet. Say one pound for 500K house, targeting millions. Nothing short of a gallactic chaos is foreseeable.

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  • little professor says:

    Completely unregulated, and becoming increasingly common. They way it works is they set up this unauthorized illegal lottery,try to get in in the local paper (even better if they can get it on the BBC), sell a couple of thousand tickets to mug punters, and then say sorry, it’s cancelled as we did not sell enough tickets.
    They then hold on to the money, to cover their “administrative costs.”

    Very disappointed that HPC-ers have fallen for this.

    P.S. this was originally reported on the news blog back in June:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1029930/Yours-25-Homeowner-sells-raffle-tickets-1m-property-losing-12-000-month.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/6198419.stm

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  • little professor says:

    Here we go – from the T+C’s:

    First they bend the rules banning unauthorized lotteries, by claiming it is a test of skill rather than purely the luck of the draw:

    The Entrants recognise that the Competition is a Prize Competition for the purposes of Section 14 (5) of the Gambling Act 2005 and that to win the Competition via answering the Question depends to a substantial degree on the exercise of the skill, judgment and knowledge of the Entrants and that the Prize is not allocated wholly by chance

    And then here comes the money shot:

    The Promoters will be entitled to retain 35% of the Entry Fees to cover administration and marketing expenditure. The remaining balance following deduction of the 35% is “the Prize Fund”.

    20k ticket sold so far, at £25k a pop; take 35% of that and – they’ve already made a cool £175,000 clear profit even if they were to cancel the lottery at this stage and keep the estate for themselves.

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  • The guy who is selling the house looks suspiciously like Jimmy Hill.

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  • lp, ju, – thanks for your insights

    we live and learn

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  • little professor said…

    Did you not read: ‘The Promoters reserve the right to cancel the Competition at any time either before or after tickets have been sold. If the Competition is cancelled, the Promoters will return the Entry Fees to each Entrant (either by bank card refund or by cheque and in one combined payment where several entries have been made by a competitor). Where the Entry Fee is returned, the Promoter shall have no further liability to the Entrant or to any other person;’

    Yes, the competition started back in June this year – they’ve obviously stepped up the interest today though by getting some airtime on the BBC. Fair Play!

    I don’t believe this is an illegal lottery – it’s a competition – why not accept it for what it is?

    I’m trying to understand your point? Will you not be taking part then?

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  • I’m suprised at some of the responses from HPCers. Very illuminating!

    @ malct 25… we sure do!

    @ Soundman74

    If its such a no brainer and assuming it was to catch on, would you enter every one that came up?

    I guess it depends if youre a lottery fan… this whole thing just helps illustrate (to me) whats wrong with the lottery (and gambling in general)…. it just plays on people’s dreams for the benefit of the few and contributes nothing, except maybe giving people hope. Might aswell have a good causes tax instead.

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  • Mark: “this is very similar to one on yorkshire a few years ago, wonder what happened to my 50quid!!”

    If it was that £650,000 mansion competition, I think it was £60 a ticket and they didn’t get enough ticket sales. The most irritating thing? That “£650,000 mansion” is now being marketed at £300,000 by the same people!!!!!

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  • Little Professor: “20k ticket sold so far, at £25k a pop; take 35% of that and – they’ve already made a cool £175,000 clear profit even if they were to cancel the lottery at this stage and keep the estate for themselves.”

    Not really clear profit. They still have to pay promotional costs and solicitors fees. I’m guessing they need the 35% cushion to pay off a small mortgage too if they get enough entrants to actually give away the house.

    Makes sense to me, they’re just protecting their interests. I don’t blame them. It’s their house and nothing illegal appears to be going on.

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  • If they don’t sell 46,000 tickets by 7th December 2008 they can close the competition, deduct 35% of the entry fees up to £402,491 and give the balance of £747,484 away as the prize. You can’t tell me that the costs of running the competition will be anything like £400,000 so its a win win situation for them if they don’t sell 190 tickets per day for the next 102 days.

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  • Can any one please tell from where we can buy this ticket …website?

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  • If it is the case that the Wilshaws don’t sell the tickets, I would assume anyone suspicious about their motives can ask for a breakdown in costs to account the 35% and, if still not happy, pursue some kind of recourse. That is, if one can be arsed. And have a penchant for crusading against those, who in the grand scheme of skulduggery, are extremely small players.

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  • Who pays the stamp duty or doesn’t that apply in this case it’s a great price but at what cost to the winner…

    3% of £1m I’d have to raffle my place for that sort of money, right who wants a 3 bed in grimsville? £25 a go……

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  • These lotteries are illegal – they don’t comply with the Gambling Act 2005, Section 14(5)

    The question is why are the Gambling Commission leaving it so long before they act.

    Another three similar property lotteries have cropped up since this one, two for £1m and one for £5. These latest ones are almost identical in format and two have virtually identical Ts and Cs, So they may have the same ‘legal adviser’.

    As and when the Gambling Commission takes steps to curb this recent crime spree I hope all the people who have bought tickets are able to get refunds.

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  • The only one I have seen that appears to genuine is http://www.winadevonmanor.co.uk £750,000 house, 40,000 tickets, £25 a ticket and has all the details clearly listed.
    All the others seem to be plain as mud!
    Plus you can even go and stay there and meet the people raffling it!!
    Even explains what happens if they don’t sell enough tickets.

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  • I think they are all illegal Georgewest – just because you can meet the people doesn’t mean they aren’t breaking the law, just that they exist.

    Have a look at this – http://www.out-law.com/page-9382

    Plus the £5 million one and the latest £1 million Grand Designs property lottery have almost identical terms and conditions as the Devon one.

    I think the Devon one is the original culprit that spawned all these other dubious lotteries.

    You sound like someone who has spent money on this lottery. If you have I hope it works out for you.

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  • To all the negative comments, how about cutting these people a bit of slack. In todays British society we are all to eager to condem and pull people to bits rather than wish them luck and pat them on the back. There are lots of people desperate to move on and get out of their situation and sometimes it requires desperate measures in order to save your livelyhood. The alternative is they go bust and lose everything they have worked for. Wouldn’t you if you had the same situation, about to lose the lot including the roof over your head. Perhaps the gambling comission are aware that people are doing this, and it may be sailing close to the wind on the legal side, but I believe that maybe they are just letting things ride a little and giving folks some slack in hard times rather than kicking them whilst they’re down. How about a bit of brotherly love for a change, British society would be better for it, and it is well short of it.

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  • rule 48 says The Promoters make no representation or warranty as to the Valuation or the Prize, its structural or cosmetic condition or its ability to be sold. Entrants should make and rely on their own enquiries and legal advice about the Prize before entering the Competition.

    Do they own it out right ????? Its the property at risk of being repossessed . what about the business are you liable for future guest who may of paid in advance???

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  • I have no problem with the concept of people offering their home in a competition. I am considering it myself and am looking into legal ways of doing it.

    Are they about to go bust? They are saying that they want to retire and this is to help them have a nest egg?

    They could have achieved this by selling it for a lower price, assuming their debts were low, which is a fair assumption as they had been in the property for 14 years.

    Or by structuring it as a real competition with a few real questions with no validation’ and asked only after people had purchased the right to try.

    So it is OK to break the law then as long as we have a good reason to do it?

    It’s an interesting concept – the Gambling Commission kindly looking the other way when million pound homes are raffled off because of the housing crisis.

    Do you suppose the police will look the other way when people shop lift because of the credit crisis?

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  • Hopefulingalilea says:

    Why are all these people so negative? Are they jealous that THEY didn’t have the idea or that they don’t own such a beautiful property. Beware the green eyed monster! Ignore them! It is obvious that most of them didn’t read the Blurb on the raffle properly anyway! Asking STUPID questions.

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  • Hopefulingalilea says:

    Why are peole so negative? Jealous they haven’t got a beautiful home to raffle? Green eyed monsters all of them! Why do they ask such STUPID questions when it is all there in the ‘Blurb’ for the world to read.

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  • Hopeitsmethatwins says:

    I have just seen another couple that are doing this with there house in cheltenham, i watched the Grand Designs they where on, stunning house.

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  • It seems as though the site for Winadevonmanor is down at the moment & the Wilshaws have met their target of 46000 entries and the draw has been brought forward to October 16th – good luck to those on here with tickets. Come back and let us know if you win!!

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  • winadevonmanor is a beautiful house I have stayed in it.The site is back on and the people are genuine just want to retire.

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  • I have stayed in the house and its beautiful.The couple are genuine and just want to retire.Everyone in the village is entering as it is quite a famous house and has a lot of history.Fantastic views I wouldn’t mind it!

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  • These lotteries are illegal and the Gambling Commission may have finally cottoned on to them

    Homeowners urged to be aware of rules on ‘house competitions’ (http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/Client/mediadetail.asp?mediaid=404&id=4&track=fp)

    There is no jealousy in my concerns – if it was a real competition it would not be illegal and a very clever thing to do, but this is a lottery and it is breaking the law.

    You need to read Section 14 (5) of the Gambling Act to understand why. Alternatively read the press release and if you have bought a ticket for this lottery you will know that it fails both tests in Section 14 (5), and it only needs to pass one of the two tests to pass as a prize competition.

    As per the Gambling Commission press release above: –

    “Lotteries are the preserve of good causes and cannot be operated for private gain,” said the Commission’s Deputy Chief-Executive Tom Kavanagh.

    Lotteries are easy to enter and, as they are based on a random selection they are easy to ‘rig’, this is why they are regulated and restricted to good causes.

    These people are breaking the law.

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  • Just wondered if anyone actually won the manor?

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