Thursday, July 3, 2008

The left-Right political spectrum is a fraud

A Republic, Not a Democracy.

When dealing with house prices, people move from debating the left right paradigm. Truth is, its a fraud (see the video). The most appropriate way is not represented by that spectrum. And like, in Orwell's 1984, if language is manipulated to rid it of description of something, it cannot be thought about or discussed, hense double think. In the part based on law, called here as the way of the republic, you get sound money, no inflation, etc. In the old system you get a status quo that always has unsound money, inflation and asset bubbles.

Posted by planning4acrash @ 08:38 AM (991 views)
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62 thoughts on “The left-Right political spectrum is a fraud

  • I’m basically in agreement with the notion that democracy is mob-rule, and that it does not guarantee the rights of the individual. The great thing about a constitutional Republic (as, for example, envisioned by the founding fathers of the US) is that the individual is protected from the excesses of the state by writ of law. Of course, the left/right political debate (or Labour/Conservative) is a sham and anyone who cannot see this is living in a dream. In the UK both the left and the right are statists. The true political dichotomy, however, is between those with statist tendencies (which includes both Tory and Labour) and those who espouse individual liberty, i.e., the right of the individual to live a life WITHOUT excessive taxation and over-regulation. It’s just such a shame that US has lost its founding ideals and is sleepwalking into the most unpleasant manifestation of authoritarianism: fascism.

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  • 14. In any State in which there is a bad organization of authority, an impersonality of laws and of the rulers who have lost their personality amid the flood of rights ever multiplying out of liberalism, I find a new right – to attack by the right of the strong, and to scatter to the winds all existing forces of order and regulation, to reconstruct all institutions and to become the sovereign lord of those who have left to us the rights of their power by laying them down voluntarily in their liberalism.

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  • The general rule is that there is profit in confusion; the more confusion, the more profit. Therefore, the best approach is to create problems and then offer the solutions.

    DIVERSION SUMMARY

    Media: Keep the adult public attention diverted away from the real social issues, and captivated by matters of no real importance.

    Schools: Keep the young public ignorant of real mathematics, real economics, real law, and real history.

    Entertainment: Keep the public entertainment below a sixth-grade level.

    Work: Keep the public busy, busy, busy, with no time to think; back on the farm with the other animals.

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  • @malct, “there is profit in confusion” — Indeed there is, take a look at Naomi Klein’s new book, “The Shock Doctrine”. The author explains how various organisations, both inside and outside government, take advantage of disasters and upheavals to obtain favourable policies and lucrative contracts.

    I take issue with your other point about how it’s all the media / education’s fault. Have you ever tried to talk to people about these issues? If they can’t see how it affects them personally, they just aren’t interested. People would rather watch Eastenders than Channel 4 News.

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  • Mark Wadsworth says:

    What Harold says. It’s about Large Statists versus Small Statists. Labour and Conservative are virtually indistringuishable, especially in the context of being in thrall to the “house prices may only go up” fallacy. I refer to this as Indian bicycle marketing.

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  • @ P4aC

    why did the comments at the top overstep the blog policies?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Outragous, how could my comments have contravened blog policies!

    Harold, your words beautifully explain the video and my position.

    Malct, I totally agree. I could read novels at the age of four. Yet I was forced to read Roger Redhat, which had 4 word “sentences”. I had already begun to read Arthur Ransom cover to cover by the age of five, yet was forced to spend my time “reading” nonsense books that said nothing. “Education” in our system forces each individual of a given age to conform to state expectations at that age. It enforces a “democratic” medium in intellect and debate. I personally want to home school my kids when they come around. They will have as much if not more interaction, because I will link up as a community with other home schoolers, and will ensure that my kids participate in social and practical activities during evenings and weekends, such as sports, having their own allotment to tend, getting involved in other nourishing activities.

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  • THE POLITICAL STRUCTURE OF A NATION — DEPENDENCY

    The primary reason why the individual citizens of a country create a political structure is a subconscious wish or desire to perpetuate their own dependency relationship of childhood. Simply put, they want a human god to eliminate all risk from their life, pat them on the head, kiss their bruises, put a chicken on every dinner table, clothe their bodies, tuck them into bed at night, and tell them that everything will be alright when they wake up in the morning.

    This public demand is incredible, so the human god, the politician, meets incredibility with incredibility by promising the world and delivering nothing. So who is the bigger liar? the public? or the “godfather”?

    This public behavior is surrender born of fear, laziness, and expediency. It is the basis of the welfare state as a strategic weapon, useful against a disgusting public.

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  • POVERTY OUR WEAPON
    5. All people are chained down to heavy toil by poverty more firmly than ever. They were chained by slavery and serfdom; from these, one way and another, they might free themselves. These could be settled with, but from want they will never get away. We have included in the constitution such rights as to the masses appear fictitious and not actual rights. All these so-called “Peoples Rights” can exist only in idea, an idea which can never be realized in practical life. What is it to the proletariat laborer, bowed double over his heavy toil, crushed by his lot in life, if talkers get the right to babble, if journalists get the right to scribble any nonsense side by side with good stuff, once the proletariat has no other profit out of the constitution save only those pitiful crumbs which we fling them from our table in return for their voting in favor of what we dictate, in favor of the men we place in power, the servants of our AGENTUR … Republican rights for a poor man are no more than a bitter piece of irony, for the necessity he is under of toiling almost all day gives him no present use of them, but the other hand robs him of all guarantee of regular and certain earnings by making him dependent on strikes by his comrades or lockouts by his masters.

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  • @ P4aC

    – the system isn’t all that bad in itself – you just had a [email protected] teacher. You’ll probably do a far better job educating your own kids.

    Our daughter could read from about 18 months old. Because she was so literate, she was accused of lifting stuff from the internet one time at secondary school (her essay was deemed to be too well written for a thirteen year old). She explained that she had written it herself. She was accused by the teacher of lying. She then ‘dumbed down’ her language afterwards in her essays.

    Sad isn’t it?

    But not a fault of the system – just a [email protected] teacher.

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  • Planning4acrash says:

    Cornishman, in a class of 30 with a national curriculum, what else do you expect? It is totally the system. It is also by design, because the political elite would not survive and could not maintain their stranglehold on technology and wealth if we all reached our god given potential.

    Malct. You are only half right. The American constitution involves economic constitutional rights. It outlaws the unconstitutional federal reserve and requires sound gold or silver backed money. America had about 1% inflation from its inception to 1913, but a 1913 dollar is worth about 1cent today, and that will be cut by another third at least in the next couple of yrs (conservatively).

    A constitution also includes property owning rights.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Outragous, how could my comments have contravened blog policies!

    Harold, your words beautifully explain the video and my position.

    Malct, I totally agree. I could read novels at the age of four. Yet I was forced to read Roger Redhat, which had 4 word “sentences”. I had already begun to read Arthur Ransom cover to cover by the age of five, yet was forced to spend my time “reading” nonsense books that said nothing. “Education” in our system forces each individual of a given age to conform to state expectations at that age. It enforces a “democratic” medium in intellect and debate. I personally want to home school my kids when they come around. They will have as much if not more interaction, because I will link up as a community with other home schoolers, and will ensure that my kids participate in social and practical activities during evenings and weekends, such as sports, having their own allotment to tend, getting involved in other nourishing activities.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oops, I meant to say the following:

    Education is screwed by 30 in a class, and a national curriculum. It is by design and the elite could not maintain its 2 party system or strangehold on technology and wealth if all reached their god given potential.

    Malct,. a constitutional republic also includes economic safeguards. The American constitution outlaws the federal reserve and requires a gold/silver standard. the USA had about 1% inflation from its beginnings until 1913 when the Federal Reserve was produced. It since, with its fiat system has depreciated the 1913 dollar by about 99%, and we will most likely see that fall by another 1/3 (conservatively) in the comming depression.

    A constitutional republic also includes property rights and should for example give those renting land from Prince Charles to have a right to purchase said land after a given tenure (not like Mugabe’s approach, with land stolen and given to supporters, land reform must be constitutional, not government led). POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

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  • Planning4acrash says:

    Cornishman, those books were part of the national curriculum. Nothing to do with the teacher, who had no budget to buy books for their students that they thought they could handle, or that were demanded by the students, and no option to bring in privately owned books and use them independently for reading time or assignments. Total control.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Cornishman, those books were part of the national curriculum. Nothing to do with the teacher, who had no budget to buy books for their students that they thought they could handle, or that were demanded by the students, and no option to bring in privately owned books and use them independently for reading time or assignments. Total control.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Cornishman, encourage your daughter to undertake civil disobedience. She will be a stronger person taking lower grades. What she must do is record her notes as proof. Take it to the next level. So, get her submit her work with notes, get her writing her thoughts as she works, citing any sources. Get her to hand in the lot. Get involved in the board of governers and bring forth the issue.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    This is best done if she uses pen and paper to do her drafts. Then type it up in the end bit. Avoiding pen and paper dumbs us down for sure, because it avoids organic linguistic structures, by forcing us into typescript.

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  • P4aC

    I agree that there is too much government interference in schools – but your teacher could easily have got books for you from further up the school or suggested you bring in books from the local library. Just as you work round the system in your own way – and the French work round the EU rules in their own way – so a good teacher can work round the rules for the benefit of the student (most of the time…).

    The trouble is that a lot of good teachers are giving up the struggle.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Cornishman, I had my own private books and was happy to share them in the class via a book club. (I was a Libertarian at 5yrs old too!) But they wouldn’t let me! Because they had to follow the curriculum!! The Victorians began compulsory schooling, which was purely a social engineering project to keep kids off the streets after bringing them up from the mines. This mindset remains in the national education departments. They can’t sustain it with free access to information in the internet, so are now pumping kids up with murcury via innoculations that don’t work.

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  • (1) disengaging their minds; sabotaging their mental activities; providing a low-quality program of public education in mathematics, logic, systems design and economics; and discouraging technical creativity.

    (2) engaging their emotions, increasing their self-indulgence and their indulgence in emotional and physical activities, by:

    (a) unrelenting emotional affrontations and attacks (mental and emotional rape) by way of a constant barrage of sex, violence, and wars in the media — especially the T.V. and the newspapers.

    (b) giving them what they desire — in excess — “junk food for thought” — and depriving them of what they really need.

    (3) rewriting history and law and subjecting the public to the deviant creation, thus being able to shift their thinking from personal needs to highly fabricated outside priorities.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Finally, we the people, must decide whether we own our children or whether they are owned by the state. Check out this scary article, which prooves that the government are making normal family activities appear abnormal. Next, cats will need state permission to suckle their kittens:

    Government Permission Required For Parents To Kiss Children26 Jun 2008 … Sweeping new policies set to be introduced in the UK will mandate parents to get government permission to kiss their children or take them to a swimming pool, etc…
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/062608_government_permission.htm

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac/Malct – the Libertarian dream, like the Socialist dream, is effectively a fantasy. The sad reality is people – some want to be in power and be rich, so a small government is simply replaced with big corporations. Your ‘republic’ is simply big government where the rules are fixed in stone. As for ‘property rights’ – this effectively means rights for the rich to maintain and increase their riches.
    Unless you can start a Libertarian country from square one, you have in-built and insurmountable inequality from the start. Am I free in such a country to use a plot of land to build a house and feed my family? Not unless I already have money. This forces me into work for someone else. This is not freedom.
    Individualism is not the natural ‘law of the jungle’ that many would like us to believe – we work best as humans within communities and sharing tasks/responsibilities – promotion of the ‘rights of the individual’ destroys that link and leads to a dog-eat-dog society with no real freedom.

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  • Dear sensible HPC reader

    You probably started visiting this site with a view to gaining a better understanding of the property market and the factors influencing the direction of houseprices and the economy in general. You perhaps thought you might glean from the general concensus views of many honest and intelligent people, with no vested interests, an insight into how to avoid the costly financial mistakes made by the foolhardy, and plan your future life accordingly.

    Not what you expected? I regret that whilst this site is indeed generally very informative, it often gets infiltrated by a small fringe element of strange people who repeatedly push their own pet ideas on totally unrelated and frequently ridiculous topics, usually involving some connection with a nebulous and mysterious organisation they refer to as the New World Order. These essentially paranoid individuals spend most of their time on websites like Youtube and Prison Planet, where they seek out other sad and gullible persons with a similar view, so that they can reinforce their own ideas and convince themselves that their beliefs are ‘the truth’.

    I’m afraid that this is one of those threads, but please be patient dear reader, these people require your understanding and not pity or derision. It is not their fault that they feel the need to have a cause and be part of some superior esoteric club. It is just human nature and we must accept that we are all different.

    Yes, I know it does at times seem relentless, but I don’t believe there is any malice. These individuals genuinely believe they are helping you. They are troubled souls who reside in a grey and strange world where science and fantasy merge and the bogey-man awaits around every corner. They often lie awake at night pondering their (and your) plight.

    Please therefore resist the temptation to draw the conclusion that this site is inhabited only by conspiraloons. Yes, there are a few, but there is some sensible debate as well. That is the nature of the net I guess.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Dear P.Doff, go back to the Ministry of Truth with your beetle eyed idiots.

    Shipbuilder, words fail me. But fine, bow down to your statist overlords whilst your children are dumbed down and your assetts and liberties go down the pan. I’ll prosper with my gold supply, whilst you suffer. Your choice.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Shipbuilder, you describe anarchy, not constitutional moderation. The film makes it clear that anarchy is not viable. Try to use your head for once.

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  • p.doff – a helping hand for you.

    You forgot to refer your chosen audience to the array of other excellent on topic posts today, yesterday and always that they could be reading – just like you could.

    The fact that you have failed to do so will cause intelligent people to question your motives. Fancy a rewind? Sorry it’s too late.

    In simple terms you are not a moderator, a webmaster or an administrator, you have every right to your own opinion but you seem determined to deny others the same priveldge. Precisely what is your agenda on this site?

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac – i’ll ignore your patronising tone and answer your point – you realised in your second post that I wasn’t talking about statism and so you corrected yourself – good. Libertarianism simply reinforces the status quo of biggest/strongest rules. The constitution of the US, no matter what its good intentions, has not prevented that. Actually the point that you made about being a Libertarian at 5 years old is nonsense. The Libertarian ideal is one of individualism – a real Libertarian would have kept the book to themselves, to avoid the other gaining a ‘competative advantage’. You have grown up in a country with the benefits of social healthcare and services, so you are simply cherrypicking the good bits of Libertarianism – are you prepared to see private healthcare and the right to bear arms?
    As for gold – as I pointed out before – if money is your wealth, then your wealth will always be subject to the control of those who have more of it. Money is not my wealth, so I will not suffer.
    Do some real research on the meaning of your values before you blindly adpot them.

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  • The administrators, whom we shall choose from among the public, with strict regard to their capacities for servile obedience, will not be persons trained in the arts of government, and will therefore easily become pawns in our game in the hands of men of learning and genius who will be their advisers, specialists bred and reared from early childhood to rule the affairs of the whole world.

    As is well known to you, these specialists of ours have been drawing to fit them for rule the information they need from our political plans from the lessons of history, from observations made of the events of every moment as it passes. The xxxx are not guided by practical use of unprejudiced historical observation, but by theoretical routine without any critical regard for consequent results.

    We need not, therefore, take any account of them – let them amuse themselves until the hour strikes, or live on hopes of new forms of enterprising pastime, or on the memories of all they have enjoyed. For them let that play the principal part which we have persuaded them to accept as the dictates of science (theory).

    It is with this object in view that we are constantly, by means of our press, arousing a blind confidence in these theories. The intellectuals of the xxxx will puff themselves up with their knowledges and without any logical verification of them will put into effect all the information available from science, which our AGENTUR specialists have cunningly pieced together for the purpose of educating their minds in the direction we want.

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  • p4ac are you saying we cannot expect house price stability within the context of our current political system?

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  • A national economy consists of simultaneous flows of production, distribution, consumption, and investment. If all of these elements including labor and human functions are assigned a numerical value in like units of measure, say, 1939 dollars, then this flow can be further represented by a current flow in an electronic circuit, and its behavior can be predicted and manipulated with useful precision.
    The three ideal passive energy components of electronics, the capacitor, the resistor, and the inductor correspond to the three ideal passive energy components of economics called the pure industries of capital, goods, and services, respectively.

    Economic capacitance represents the storage of capital in one form or another.

    Economic conductance represents the level of conductance of materials for the production of goods.

    Economic inductance represents the inertia of economic value in motion. This is a population phenomenon known as services.

    An electrical inductor (e.g., a coil or wire) has an electric current as its primary phenomenon and a magnetic field as its secondary phenomenon (inertia). Corresponding to this, an economic inductor has a flow of economic value as its primary phenomenon and a population field as its secondary field phenomenon of inertia. When the flow of economic value (e.g., money) diminishes, the human population field collapses in order to keep the economic value (money) flowing (extreme case – war).

    This public inertia is a result of consumer buying habits, expected standard of living, etc., and is generally a phenomenon of self-preservation.

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  • little professor says:

    Well said, p doff!!!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Malct. I am saying that we cannot find any financial stability with fiat money.

    Shipbuilder. As a Libertarian, I have the right to share my property with others. I described a barter system, where I lend or give my book in return for one from somebody else. I’ve read my book, they’ve read there’s, so each of us are better off for sharing. You describe being selfish, not Libertarian.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    By using my own book, my choice has selected something I want to learn, vis a vis the person I swapped with. I, even as a child, am in a better position to decide what is right for me than the teacher or state. The teacher’s role should be to suggest reading lists and open students to sources where they can find what they want. The teacher can then aid the person to discuss and develop their understanding of what they wish to learn. This cannot be achieved in classes of 30. It cannot be achieved with a national curriculum. I agree with proficiency levels, but these should not be linked to age and the Gregorian calender. People should be able to take tests whenever they and their teachers consider them ready. And, with the exception of a few core subjects, like English and Maths, they should choose what they want to learn.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Kids should be free to leave school and start an apprentiship/job/university, as soon as they have reached a given level of proficiency in their core subjects and a given number of chosen subjects. I was ready for university aged 15 and would have a phd, and be a published author by now had the system been responsive. Some are ready for it aged 50. Some are never ready and are quite happy settling into a routine job. Whatever floats your boat, as they say.

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  • p doff – brilliantly put! They are an odd little set of people, aren’t they? And this is a week when the chief loon is on holiday!

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  • 40. planning4acrash said…
    Malct. I am saying that we cannot find any financial stability with fiat money.

    OK trry this:-

    Welcome to the Money Reform website
    If you have ever wondered why the world is in the state it is in; why the environment is being destroyed, why the first world has so much and yet is in debt, the third world has so little and is also in debt. Then this site is for you.

    http://www.moneyreformparty.org.uk/index.php

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  • Malct re your response to pdoff,

    Precisely,there are plenty of news items that people can chose to read and comment on.
    Why some people persist with their censorship agenda is beyond me.My only guess is that some folks believe that we can have a nice little safe house price crash and then in a couple of years time it will all be rosy again.Its as if they only wish to discuss the house price bubble and subsequent crash within some strict boundaries and they dont want to hear any of the wider issues of why it occurs etc. and what we can expect after this Financial Tsunami is over.
    I just dont understand their attitude, but then i equally dont understand why people buy “Hello” magazine and watch “Big Brother”.
    As for those who say things like ” the Media thinks of HPC website bloggers as nutters”, I say “Who Cares about what the mainstream media thinks” Surely they are part of the problem that have caused this situation in the first place with their lazy and corrupt journalism.

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  • sold out – “what we can expect after this Financial Tsunami is over”
    I’m sure you’re right, some people haven’t thought that far ahead

    I agree with your other comments but I think the above is critical – thanks

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  • 38. malct said…”The three ideal passive energy components of electronics, the capacitor, the resistor, and the inductor correspond to the three ideal passive energy components of economics”——- etc

    Sorry Malct, but just think about what you have typed. To the more easily impressed and dull witted of your disciples it might appear to be a clever analogy expounded by someone akin to a wise old sage, but you and I both know it’s absolute meaningless gobbledegook. Where on earth did you cut and paste that little pearl of wisdom from? You’ll have to do better than that if you want to develop and maintain the mysterious oracle persona with anyone capable of rational thought.

    Sold Out, It’s a News Blog. You know, for NEWS – preferably with some tangible connection to house prices and the economy, be it local or global. I’m quite happy to be entertained by discussion on wider issues provided it is relevant, but who in their right mind would regard P4ac’s You Tube clip to be either news or relevant. Are you one of Malct’s disciples as described above?”

    ”the Media thinks of HPC website bloggers as nutters”, I say “Who Cares about what the mainstream media thinks”

    I say ”it’s a pity the Media thinks of HPC website bloggers as nutters, because if the mainstream media had taken the site more seriously earlier on, then HPI might not have reached such stupid heights”. Well done guys!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p. doff. the media attack HPC, because they know that we, in contrast to their MI5 and government led spin, is counteracting their lies.

    Check out show 11 on the following link for a shocking insight into how MI5 controls the media, as an example of our fascist media: http://www.wearechange.org.uk/media/radio.html

    In the words of Thomas Jefferson on the British media, way back in oh, 1785:
    “The most effectual engines for [pacifying a nation] are the public papers… [A despotic] government always [keeps] a kind of standing army of newswriters who, without any regard to truth or to what should be like truth, [invent] and put into the papers whatever might serve the ministers. This suffices with the mass of the people who have no means of distinguishing the false from the true paragraphs of a newspaper.”

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  • shipbuilder says:

    In my previous posts I was responding to the other posts, rather than the video, which i’ve watched now and is interesting, but complete rubbish on the left vs right stuff. Do you think that the narrator possibly sees himself as leaning to the right? The political spectrum has nothing to do with big vs small government, as a quick scan on Wikipedia will confirm. Communism, in particular, is wildly misunderstood in the US – it simply means collective ownership, not state ownership.
    Individualism/competition (right) vs collectivism/co-operation (left) is far more apt. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. Statism is simply a submission of control to the state and neither left nor right.
    I believe that the ownership of land or resources under the surface of that land by default is an absurdity. I believe that personal responsibility also means being responsible for others, as part of a community. All history shows that, on a local level, this is how society works best.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac – I suggest you widen your net by watching http://www.flatearthnews.net (not a joke). I still wonder why you choose only to refer to a few sources that clearly have the same narrow and fixed agenda, given your claimed search for ‘the truth’.

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  • P4ac

    Thomas Jefferson is correct. That much we are agreed upon. Government propaganda has always been around to control the masses in one form or another, but it is most effective at a certain (Jeremy Kyle show candidate) level for whom distinguishing between the true and false paragraphs in a newspaper article would be impossible. However, you do not seem to be of that ilk and I am surprised that you apparently have difficulty distinguishing between fact and fiction in your favourite oddball sources of information online.

    Rats, I’ve been sucked into a meaningless off topic discussion again.

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  • 50. p. doff said…

    “P4ac Thomas Jefferson is correct. That much we are agreed upon.
    Rats, I’ve been sucked into a meaningless off topic discussion again.”

    p.doff just wizz up to the top of the page and check out the views – nobody’s listening!

    You don’t seem able to rationalise or act on friendly advice and the way you are screaming suggests you are in a lot of pain which makes sense in a way.

    It doesn’t have to be that way. I thought you were doing really well last week.

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  • 51. malct said… ”p.doff just wizz up to the top of the page and check out the views – nobody’s listening!”

    You’re right. I don’t know about the first 7 blogs which have been moderated into oblivion, but the rest are mostly you and P4ac.

    These stupid topics are obviously a complete turn-off for the moderator and most sensible people and should therefore be posted on a different, more suitable site .

    I rest my case.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p.doff, you get sucked into this, either via your paid masters, or your intuition, because you are ready to wake up.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oh, p.doff, you question me using a limited range of sources, um, what f%ing sources do you provide?! I provide sources that others don’t, and we work together to get a rounded picture. Do you really expect me to look at all sources on the internet, for your benefit? You are an IDIOT!

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  • 54. planning4acrash said…
    ….. ”limited range of sources”….

    Who said anything about limited range of sources? I said favourite oddball sources. Please engage brain before typing. Anyway, we’ve moved on since then.

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  • Bored with this futile thread now so switching off. Don’t cry, Gardenia.net should be along soon to keep you company.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    Evening all.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    Today I have been mostly thinking about education.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    The main problem when discussing the educational system is that everybody thinks themselves an expert, just because they went to school.

    To me, this is akin to everyone who has been to see a doctor, thinking themselves a master of medicine.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Garden, the fundamental issue is, that the person being taught knows more about what is good for them than the teacher, and definitely the state. For example, kids want to play. This teaches them how to interact with others and to be creative.

    Teenagers don’t want to do exams or learn by rote and want to be creative, learning what they need to be creative, but we stifle that.
    – Some people don’t want to do a degree, they want to learn how to dismantle and rebuild an engine. Let them learn it!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Its about treating kids and teenagers like humans, not property of the state. Even not of family, families are custodians of the liberty of the child. The state should only serve to ensure that the liberty of our children is upheld. They only misbehave because we feed them with rubbish and try to contain their instincts and creativity.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Families are the primary custodians, because they are in an immeasurably better position to know what’s best for their children.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >Families are the primary custodians, because they are in an immeasurably better position to know what’s best for their children.

    Agree 100%. Unfortunately, large sections of society clearly demonstrate in their words and actions that they don’t agree.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >the fundamental issue is, that the person being taught knows more about what is good for them than the teacher, and definitely the state

    At 16 possibly, but not at 4.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Garden, at 4, a child knows that they want to play, that they want to interact with other children, that they want a puppy, that they want to paint, all these things are what the child should be doing.

    The only time that they don’t know is when modern foods, murcury vaccines, TV, etc. fiddle with their instincts and they understandably become unbalanced. So, all a parent need do to understand how to nourish them, is to eliminate those things in the child’s environment that harm them, and to expose them to what is natural to them.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    If you don’t let a child develop a sense of what is good for them, they become dependent and unable to make such decisions at 16, hense the problem with adolescence today.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >at 4, a child knows that they want to play, that they want to interact with other children, that they want a puppy, that they want to paint, all these things are what the child should be doing.

    I agree, that they should be doing these things, but that alone is not enough. They need to be nurtured and taught (in moderation.)

    Have you read Lord of the Flies?

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  • P4ac. Looking at the time and quantity of your postings, I suspect that you are becoming addicted to this website. If you frequent other websites to the same degree then you probably need help. Never fear – P.Doff is here.

    Seriously though, regarding education, you sound like someone who has no first hand knowledge of same, or child rearing either. Mrs Doff is a teacher and I appreciate some of the problems they face – and they have my sincere sympathy. It’s not a job I would like to do (and my aborted course at teacher training college in an earlier life put me right off).

    There is a lot of learning to get through in a finite period, and much of it really is quite boring (and cannot be made otherwise, particularly within a limited timeframe and other constraints). For example, you obviously found spelling boring at primary school. Had it not been compulsory, and probably hammered into you by rote, you might not have reached the level you have.

    Without some structure in class there would be chaos. Gardenia sums it up well in his Lord of the Flies analogy. ”Kill a pig, slit his throat, bash him in”. Would you be a Piggy or a Ralph? Kids do indeed know what they like, but they like playing and not learning. Without discipline, that is what they would choose to do. Yes, you may produce many good painters/decorators, artists, etc, out of those with the inate ability, but we do need a few mathematicians as well. I hold the view that a forced all round early education is best. They may choose a particular direction from a wider knowledge base when they are older and better equipped to so do.

    Still, from past experience, I know you will stick to your one sided viewpoint and believe what you want to believe. Good Luck.

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