Thursday, June 19, 2008

The final oil collapse is close

Bush calls for lifting of ban on Alaska oil drilling

George Bush, responding to public alarm over soaring petrol prices, yesterday proposed overturning decades-old bans on drilling for oil off the US coast and in the pristine Alaskan wilderness. "There's no excuse for delay," the president told a White House press conference. America was too dependent on countries abroad, many of them in unstable regions.

Posted by sold 2 rent 1 @ 11:01 AM (3575 views)
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93 thoughts on “The final oil collapse is close

  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    This video

    The Energy Non-Crisis
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147

    is in the top ten popular videos on http://video.google.com.
    See for yourself.

    It is a presentation by Lindsey Williams, a chaplain (church minister), who sat on the executive board of an oil company for 3 years in the 1970s.
    He explains how massive oil discoveries in Alaska (biggest in North America and maybe the world) were covered up. These oil discoveries could have made the US oil independent 25 years ago. The oil discoveries become restricted government information.

    He also says that it was an intentional plan to make the US dependent on foreign oil. All but 2 counties in the Middle East signed a deal to:
    – denominate all oil sales in USD
    – buy US Treasury bonds with specified percentage of oil sales.

    The 2 countries that did not sign were Iraq and Iran.

    He concludes that if the Alaskan oil fields were to be pumped now the Middle East economies would crash and there would be no-one to buy US Treasury Bills. The US is already enslaved into its own debt by design. Pumping the Alaskan oil would crash the US economy.

    He also says Iran has promised to sell massive oil stocks in euros by a certain date this year. This is why the US is desperate to bomb Iran with any excuse.

    Watch this video. Not just 5 or 10 minutes…but the whole 75 minutes

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  • george monsoon says:

    Does this blow the “peak oil” theory out of the window?

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    Time is running out.
    The collapse of the entire Western economies is coming soon.
    17 days until the world consciousness changes.

    6 July 2008 – consciousness change

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  • George – nope – 2 million barrels a day is significant, but only a 2% increase in supply. We are now looking at the last few areas that haven’t been drilled for political reasons. All it is doing is delaying the inevitable by a few years.

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  • george monsoon says:

    Sold 2 rent, I will be camping with my son in a field in deepest wales in 12 days, so I might miss it.
    Please fill me in on the events when I return.

    P.S. if you are right, I will vote Labour in the next election… lol.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    george monsoon,

    “Does this blow the “peak oil” theory out of the window?”

    Peak oil is so dead.
    The oil price is going to crash so badly for 3 reasons

    – 60pc of the oil price is speculation anyway
    – there are massive oil reserves that have been kept secret on purpose
    – cars can now be powered by water. Free energy is around the corner.

    The only question is when will this information be accepted as mainstream.

    6 July 2008. Perhaps the shorting opportunity in history.

    Anyone thinking in participating in this unique opportunity should get their trading accounts opened this week.

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  • s2r1 – same bloke here’s the free ebook

    http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis.html

    In this book we will at first give only observations and not opinions. This will set the stage for others to arrive at informed conclusions. At the summation of the book, however, we will allow ourselves the luxury of expressing some opinions—where they are clearly justified by the observations we have made. My primary objective is to report observations, factual material that often could not otherwise be known. Some of it is startling and highly controversial, in that it relates to decisions of policy and high prices, and it is certainly highly relevant
    to America’s national interests—which, of course, makes it of dramatic importanceto the rest of the world, as well.

    Such statements might seem to be sweeping-some people will even regard them as outrageous. Nevertheless, they’re made with the knowledge that they are accurate and vital, and with the conviction that they ought to be told. That being so, why should they not be taken seriously? Plenty of people have said there is no true energy crisis, but almost always they make those statements based on rumors and hearsay; seldom are they able to back up their statements with solid facts.

    That is where this book is different.

    no idea how genuine this is -malct

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  • 6th July is a Sunday on my calendar.
    Does this have any bearing to the outcome of what happens?

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  • s2r1 – The only question is when will this information be accepted as mainstream.

    on the same theme but a different issue

    I wonder how many people will adjust their perspectives given the recent warnings from RBS, BIS and now the Bank of England.

    Specifically the house price crash (global) is but part of something huge taking place.

    This is one reason why I struggle with those who have a very narrow view of what is on topic for hpc.co.uk

    I think King’s warning is a watershed or should be. Clear ‘big trouble’ is now out in the open and mainstream. and it’s not just house prices.

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  • george monsoon says:

    I just had a quick look at the book malct posted.

    So, America is hiding the fact that they sit on vast crude oil fields, so that they can

    a) keep prices artificially high and reap the tax rewards
    b) exhaust Saudi Arabia and the arab nations oil, so that when those oil fields run out, they can stranglehold the world market.

    ?

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    The book “Energy Non-Crisis” by Lindsey Williams was published in 1980.
    It is totally genuine.

    The question you have to ask yourself is why is a book that was written 27 years ago suddenly of great interest now.
    The answer is the content of the book, once accepted as truth, requires a change of consciousness to believe it.

    Everyone will believe the book eventually; but will it be before or after the Great Crash of 2008?
    Everyone has a choice here.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    str 2007,

    The great crash will be the week before or after. Not sure which

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  • s2r1

    Apologies if I’m getting a little confused, but were you originally saying Gold would rocket to $1500 an oz. But yesterday thought you mistook the Gold rush for an Oil rush but today you’re now suggesting shorting Oil.

    I suppose buy Gold with the profits from shorting Oil which will create the uplift in the price of Gold ?

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  • george m – here I’m not sponsoring this bloke – churchy people can be very sincere and or very crazy. Given the seriousness of the price hikes I think we need to be careful.

    Fact is we know we’re being lied to so the truth must be out there somewhere.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    george,

    The reason for hiding the oil is:

    – to keep oil prices high
    – to have reasons to start wars
    – for oil companies to make massive profits
    – for the World Bank and IMF cream off tons of oil money for the NWO.
    – to enslave the US public into debt
    – to create another designed bubble that can be crashed (just like in 1929)
    – to create massive imbalances in the world for future wars

    Watch the video.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    str 2007,

    An oil price crash will bring down hedge funds and all sorts of financial chaos.
    Gold/gold stocks may get sold off in the madness like in 1929 but will soon recover.

    Gold stocks that have been unloved because of rising costs from the rising oil price will be major winners.

    Loads of opportunities although most people will keep their cash in EUR/USD/GBP and lose a lot by currency devaluation.

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  • s2r1 / george – reasons above

    sounds about right to me.

    anchor point – If anyone things this is too fantastic to be true, just take a look at the history of HEMP

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  • george monsoon says:

    Malct, my hemp is doing very nicely thanks..

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  • S2R1 – I will be on holiday in the The Balaeric Islands either side of Sunday 6th July 2008 – will I get a flight home OK?

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  • What about this?

    Suggest that there are absolutely massive oil fields about to be exploited – and the oil price should come down. Simple. Talk the dollar up. Talk the oil price down.

    No conspiracy.

    Probably won’t work.

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  • So let’s be clear about this s2r1. Are you putting your shirt on an oil crash on or around 6 July? If so, how big a crash?

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  • S2R1 quoted “He concludes that if the Alaskan oil fields were to be pumped now the Middle East economies would crash and there would be no-one to buy US Treasury Bills. The US is already enslaved into its own debt by design. Pumping the Alaskan oil would crash the US economy.”

    Why would the US be bothered if no-one bought their Bills? They would be able to sell their oil to everyone else instead? How could that ‘crash the US economy’?

    Am I missing something?

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  • S2R1 – google trends is currently down “for maintanace”

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  • The housing market is trashed!

    19. george monsoon said…
    Malct, my hemp is doing very nicely thanks..

    OK george suppose I’ll have to do it the hard way.

    THE TRUTH ABOUT HEMP

    By Lawrence Wilson, MD

    © Revised, June 2008, The Center For Development

    The hemp plant is an amazing example of nature’s blessings. No other plant can produce clean fuel, medicine, high-quality protein, among the best edible oils, lubricating and fuel oils, plastics, building material, clothing and paper. Hemp requires no pesticides, grows almost anywhere on marginal soil, prevents soil erosion and can be grown on the same land year after year. This article is the sad story of hemp in America.

    Hemp played an important role in our history. Today it could help our economy, save the forests and soil and clean up the air and water. Hemp cultivation was banned in 1937 because it competed with the oil, chemical and timber industries, not because of drug abuse.

    BANNING HEMP

    In the late 1800’s hemp had trouble competing with cheaper cotton for clothes, jute for rope, and tree pulp for paper. However, by 1920, new processing equipment made hemp very inexpensive. This was the beginning of the end for hemp.

    Sometimes laws arise out of greed and special interests. Other times, laws have good, but misguided intentions. The banning of hemp involved both. Two fledgling industries, oil and timber, ganged up against hemp.

    Anything made of petroleum can be made from hemp. The oil industry wanted cars to burn gasoline, not alcohol fuel derived from plants. Randolph Herst, the newspaper magnate, owned forests across the country. He wanted trees cut for paper, rather than using hemp.

    Herst began publishing horror stories in his newspapers across the country about “marijuana”. By the way, Hurst made up the word based on lyrics in a Mexican drinking song. He fabricated stories of murderous Mexicans high on ‘dope’. This was a word for narcotics, not hemp. The stories frightened and inflamed the public.

    It was the time of the great depression. People had lost confidence in their ability to solve their problems. They wanted the government to solve them. President Franklin Roosevelt obliged by creating federal agencies to police every aspect of American life. One was the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. Alcohol prohibition had been a failure, so the bureau was looking for a new ‘war’ to undertake.

    Hemp leaves are not a narcotic drug. No addiction to hemp was reported, even among hemp laborers. There was no drug problem in America to speak of at that time. However, hemp smoking made a good target due to the inflammatory newspaper stories.

    The combination of special interest greed and misguided government intervention led to banning all hemp cultivation and possession in 1937. Imported hemp oil for medicine and industry was so important to America it was excluded from the ban.

    source – http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/hemp.htm

    A further 40% increase in fuel bills for UK citizens this winter – announced dramatically as if to fire up fear – will hit many of us hard and cause further distress and emotional problems manifesting in personal and social behaviour issues. Others will be immune. Divide and rule. Trouble ahead.
    The housing market is trashed!

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  • It was only a few years ago that oil was $10 p/b. I seem to remember America being a bit upset when OPEC said that they had had enough of that price and was going to restrict production.

    Anyway, it sounds above like Lindsey Williams ran Exxon or something, but he was the chaplain on an oil pipe construction project for the Alyeska Pipeline Company in the mid-70s. The construction was started during the oil crisis following the Yom Kippur war. The oil embargo on the US was punishment for its support of Israel.

    America respondent by deciding that the US should be self-sufficient in oil, however recession could not be averted and schools could not heated. The embargo was lifted following negotiations with the US.

    Lindsey may know a bit about oil in Alaska that he may have picked up during preaching about the love of God and the evils of Drink to construction workers, but I doubt he knows much about high-level conspiracies, except in his own head.

    A gross simplification on my part, no doubt, but hey, this is the internet and less painful that a 75-minute David Icke-style video.

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  • “George Bush, responding to public alarm over soaring petrol prices, yesterday proposed overturning decades-old bans on drilling for oil off the US coast ”

    rather than perhaps stopping people from using oil as if it was a limitless commodity by driving SUVs and Hummers. Dirty nation.

    Str2007 – LOL

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  • Bananasplit says:

    I thought I was on Housepricecrash, not oilpricecrash but now I am thinking of oil. The problems with oil are here to stay and will gradually worsen,increasing supply was inevitable but demand will always outstrip supply and countries that are depleting their future will want to cash in by charging more so that they can invest in an alternative income.I expect that peak oil was reached a few years ago and the growth in consumption will empty the tank rather quickly. Goverments and energy companies are to blame because investment in alternatives has been deliberately slow so that maximum profits and tax can be extracted, it is far easier to tax pollution than tax the greener options.

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  • S2R1, sorry, but I still don’t get it. I do get the ever-expanding debt idea, exponential growth and all that.

    But, if you were up to your eyeballs in debt and you had a choice between borrowing more money to keep everyone happy or selling a bit of oil (from that oil well that you had just found in your back garden) – which would you do? You’d sell the oil. If you did it at a measured pace, you wouldn’t damage the price too much. In fact, if you had enough, you could dictate the price.

    Whilst I agree that it is good to keep your mind open to possibilities, I think it is also quite easy to see things that are not there – and assume the worst – when that is not justified by the facts.

    I still think it is more likely that this new oil find is just spin to try to talk the price down.

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  • I lost interest in this conversation when people started talking about cars that run on water.

    By the way, have you seen the youtube clip of popcorn being cooked by mobile phones? That’s a load of [email protected] as well.

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  • s2r1,

    IMO, the loss of value in the dollar is why oil price is high.

    by saying the oil price will crash is the same as saying the dollar will recover at full strength.

    which it won’t.

    price oil in another exchange of vaule and its not that high.

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  • s2r1 – “As for how big a crash?
    Anywhere from 50-90pc crash in oil prices in 1 week”

    You are quite, quite mad aren’t you.

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  • cyril,

    watch the clip, its not some home made conspiracy rubbish, its an article from reuters.

    the point is, do we really need oil ?

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  • [email protected]

    At last someone talking sense. Now wheres my tealeafs!

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  • george monsoon says:

    I seem to be missing something that everyone else is aware of.

    As far as I am concerned, petrol “should” drop in price with the fall in oil prices, thus making it cheaper to fill up at the station.
    That is all I care about at the moment, because the extra dent in cost is preventing me from building up a nice deposit for the house I plan to buy in a couple of years.

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  • malct @26 – I’m sure you’re aware that yer man is being naive in suggesting that FRD simply obliged those who wanted someone to solve their problems. Roosevelt was a Wall Street man through and through and the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration were designed and promoted by Wall Street. It was based on total central planning by and for industry, along Italian fascist lines, with some state regulation and welfare features to keep the workers happy. There were huge numbers of complaints of NRA oppression. The people behind it included the usual suspects – bankers Rockefeller & Morgan and their industrial offspring, General Electric and Standard Oil of New Jersey. Herbert Hoover always said that FRD beat him in the 1932 election because Wall Street supported him.

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  • Sitting Tight says:

    Dont forget that our own Falkland Islands have potentially many barrels of oil waiting to be extracted. And I doubt that it will be long before it starts. My guess is this year.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    Re: hemp

    As I’ve stated before, I do not wish my exponential propagation technique to be used for the reproduction of illegal substances – it’s much bigger than that.

    As I’ve discontinued my blog, you won’t be aware of two crucial new facts….

    – My technique works with potatoes – I spoke to the Potato Council yesterday – speechless comes near to describing their response.
    – My technique works with soya bean plants. I will be contacting Piedmont Biofuels with this news, later today.

    Ray

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  • I hope this tread is one big joke that I don’t get!

    If not, this has descended into something The Lone Gunmen would write.

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  • crash bandicoot says:

    S2R1, I don’t understand this. Why does America want the oil producing nations to buy their dollar bonds? Aren’t they able to cash them in with interest after a set period of time? How does that work?

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  • debtfree,

    have you read that bbc article? it says that the energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen to run the car comes from a hydo electric powerstation’s surplus electricity. So while it’s a good use of energy which would otherwise go to waste, it does not demonstrate a car running simply by putting water in the tank.

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  • “have you read that bbc article? it says that the energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen to run the car comes from a hydo electric powerstation’s surplus electricity. So while it’s a good use of energy which would otherwise go to waste, it does not demonstrate a car running simply by putting water in the tank.”

    Exactly… it’s a car that runs on hydrogen, not water.

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  • 7. sold 2 rent 1 said…
    […] cars can now be powered by water. Free energy is around the corner.

    NO NO NO!!! Stop going on about that bl**dy water-powered car. It’s not possible. It’s scientific gobbledygook. The only way you can get power from water is by building a great big dam in a river and installing turbine-generators. There’s no possible way to make a car run on water.

    I can show you a ship that runs on wind power though 😉

    @debtfree,

    The electric scooters are real, you can buy them now and thousands have been sold all across the world. They use the same standard technology as battery-powered toys. The water powered car on the other hand…. I don’t see any water-powered kids toys, let alone cars.

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  • drewster,

    what about a water gun ? :o)

    baroo,

    yep, spot on. that’ll teach us to read just a few lines.

    back to the drawing board …. to design a car that runs on b**ls**t :o)

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  • @debtfree,

    Lol, well if it’s a Super SoakerTM water gun then the energy comes from the user pumping up the air pressure before firing.

    The idea of a car that runs on compressed air (supplied by electricity) has been floating around for a while now. A Frenchman called Guy Nègre has been milking venture capitalists for years with his air-car idea, always promising vehicles “just six months away”. Unlike the mythical water-powered car, the air car is at least theoretically possible – although it’s not clear whether it would be all that efficient. In practice you lose a lot of energy transforming electricity to compressed air and compressed air to wheel motion.

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  • Another stupid thread full of twisted logic and cranky ideas, with the same old people spouting the same old rubbish. Tinkerbell is alive and well guys, living at the bottom of my garden!!.

    I started reading with interest but soon realised it was a complete waste of time. How often is the water powered car thing going to be quoted as factual by the conspiraloons? I can’t even be bothered to argue the toss on this one.

    P.S. I know I said that IMHO spelling doesn’t really matter on a blog site such as this, and I still hold that typos are excusable, but for goodness sake, can we not get basic words right, like when to use THERE, THEIR, and THEY’RE. TOO, TWO and TO. Simple words like TENANT and PROGRAMME even seem to cause a problem for some. Can certain people who frequently refer to the Mayan CalendEr try using CALENDAR instead.

    Sorry, but I’m just getting really annoyed today. It’s probably as a result of having to sift through [email protected] threads like this to find something genuine, worthwhile and enlightening.

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  • “Sorry, but I’m just getting really annoyed today”

    – or p.doff even!

    LOL

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    Take out the water car if your consciousness isn’t up for stretching that far.

    We still have
    – 60pc of the oil price is speculation anyway
    – there are massive oil reserves that have been kept secret on purpose

    Both these factors could drive the oil price down to $40-50 no probs
    We are still looking at a massive oil price crash that will spark financial chaos

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  • george monsoon says:

    s2r1 said –
    ——————————————————-
    60pc of the oil price is speculation anyway
    – there are massive oil reserves that have been kept secret on purpose

    Both these factors could drive the oil price down to $40-50 no probs
    We are still looking at a massive oil price crash that will spark financial chaos
    ———————————————

    Would this not just bring the price of transporting and production down, given that fuel costs govern almost all domestic costs.
    How would this create a financial meltdown? surely high oil prices are more inclined to cause financial chaos than low oil prices.

    I just don’t get it ..

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  • S2R1 @48 – “Take out the water car if your consciousness isn’t up for stretching that far.”

    Its not consciousness that isn’t up for stretching. It’s physics. That and your complete lack of understanding of bonding energy.

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  • From one of the blogsites:-

    ”We’ll never run out of oil…
    On March 22nd, 2008 BugMan says:
    but when the supply is reduced and the price is increased — even more than it is now– then the demand will decrease and alternatives will be used. “Peak Oil” may be a flawed theory, however I maintain that the thought of a field in Alaska that would sustain the US for even 50 years at our current rate of consumption is, well, ridiculous.

    I’m out on a rig 100 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico as I write this. I’ve worked on 3 different prospects in the last 2 years where the operating company spent $200 million on each prospect. They were dry holes! I may be wrong, but this implies to me that oil is getting hard to find”.

    Seems logical to me – why waste millions prospecting for oil when there’s loads already found and just sitting there at Gull Island?

    Or :-

    ”On March 21st, 2008 akak says:
    I can’t speak to the whole worldwide situation in petroleum and energy, but can only address this one issue from a position of personal knowledge. I frankly would be surprised if there were NOT nefarious government involvement in the energy market, but the Gull Island mega-field is simply a conspiracy story with nothing really to back it, from all I have seen, learned and been told by people who would know from their own firsthand experiences and knowledge.

    It’d be like trying to convince somebody in Arizona that a vast, 100-mile wide lake existed in the middle of the state, but that knowledge of it was being suppressed and kept from the public”.

    But I know you lot prefer conspiraloon comments like the one below, from the same websitesite :-

    On March 21st, 2008 ecorob says:
    …and it was probably because of you so thank you for that…i shared it with many of my friends who have also continued to share it…your work has caused a domino effect…we are snowballing and all the desaulinators of the world will be crushed under our sheer weight and force…his lies and deceits are the nails in their coffin and we, dear patriots, are very large hammers

    we must believe that most people are not dumb, just uneducated…keep working to educate and inform…you are succeeding and you are succeeding very well…why do you think this traitor is here trying to deceive? they are scared, they are very scared of what we will accomplish here….this is the ONLY media they can not control, this is our Concord, our Bunker Hill, our Yorktown! fight the good fight!

    There, I said I wouldn’t be drawn in, but you got me again you little bug–rs.
    One thing I will say is that if you spend your time Youtubing and Googling , you will justifiably get seriously worried about the sanity of the human race.

    Be seeing you!!

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    george,

    There are so many hedge funds that have bought oil on margin.
    I think to buy a barrel of oil you only need $8, the rest comes from the bank as debt creation.

    So if the oil price crashes we have hedge funds blowing up, loans turning bad, bank writedowns etc
    We haven’t even finished the sub-prime crisis before being launched into another bursting bubble.

    A crashed oil price means that the Middle East counties that purchase massive amount of US T-bills will suddenly stop doing so.
    This will drive up US interest rates at a time when they need to be slashed and will cause the economy to crash even harder.

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  • How about this s2r1 – you’re saying with confidence that the oil price will drop to $50 next month. I’ll bet you that it doesn’t go below $100 before 31 July, and the loser agrees to just go away from this website permanently. Deal?

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  • Pelethar – I’m trying the same thing with the gold price…

    Look here: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/newsblog/2008/04/blog-goldsilver-bull-not-over-12623.php?comment=added (comment 4, but also note he’d already started shifting his ‘prediction’ then)

    By the way, enjoy s2r1’s picture of the Black Swan on that thread? s2r1 hasn’t even read the book (comment 76):

    http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/newsblog/2008/06/blog-sp-index-of-wall-street-equities-is-likely-to-fall-by-more-than-points-to-around-by-september-14377.php

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    No deal.

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  • george monsoon says:

    Can I open box number 12 please..

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  • Why not? The Mayans have foretold it (making it a cast iron certainty) so what are you worried about?

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  • “No deal” s2r1? Oh good. Now I can add ‘coward’ to my list of things against you.

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  • Pelethar

    S2r1’s consciousness hasn’t evolved quite that far – yet.

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  • Pelethar

    S2r1’s consciousness hasn’t evolved quite that far – yet.

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  • Happy Mondays says:

    pelethar, your a cast iron certainty!

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    Fox news report:

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  • Paranoia Blue says:

    Some real professional help needs to be rushed in here, before too much longer! Excuse me while I have a prolonged lie-down in a darkened room……………

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  • S2r1

    You are so easily convinced by Youtube videos aren’t you.

    All I see is a demonstration of a cutting torch purportedly using a mix of hydrogen and oxygen (oxy-acetylene style). The fact that you can do this with hydrogen is not in dispute. They claim that the flame is cold to the touch, but I don’t see anybody sticking their hand in it. I next see somebody pouring water into a tank, and then a picture of a few pipes followed by a car running. I could have made a more believable video myself.

    If this is the standard of ‘proof’ upon which you base your theories then we needn’t worry about the NWO..

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  • BTW, the point that people have repeatedly tried to make to you is that it might be quite posible for an IC engine to run on a flammable gas and oxygen mix, as per LPG + air, but what is in dispute is the viability of splitting water into it’s constituent gaseous molecules by electrolysis. Simply put, it takes more energy to split the water into gas than is created by combustion of the gas.

    Just accept it – even Scotty on Star Trek knew ”ye canny change the laws of physics lad”

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  • flintster1994 says:

    The laws of physics, as we know them, could very well change. Why not? I find it ridiculously arrogant that human beings believe that we have everything sussed! New things are always just around the corner! An open mind is essential, now more than ever!

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  • Nobody said that human beings believe we have EVERYTHING sussed, and nobody but a fool would suggest it.
    There are more things under heaven……………etc
    But some things we do know, like the world is not flat – that ain’t going to change. And like you can’t economically split water into hydrogen and oxygen – that ain’t going to change either.

    Now, houseprices always going up – that might change. LOL

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  • notaneconomicsguru says:

    61. Flinster. That’s not what has tended to happen so far with the laws of physics i.e. they don’t really change. Instead a very well established set of laws (e.g Newton’s) comes to be seen as a special case of an underlying more general theory (e.g. Special or General Relativity or Quantum Mechanics) which hitherto was unknowable because the observable phenomena that differentiates the more general theory from the established one were previously beyond our means to observe them. You could say beyond our conciousness and I wouldn’t disagree with you. This means that Newtons’ Laws (even though they have been ‘replaced’ in some sense) continue to this day to be extremely useful and extraordinarily precise low speed, low gravity, large ensemble approximations (the difference between Newton and the newer laws is infinitisimally small in those conditions) and they allow us to do truly amazing things. Of course the newer laws open up even more amazing things which were unknown to us previously.

    I would also say that it is possible that we do in fact now have all the laws necessary to explain all the phenomena in the universe but we could never know that because its always possible a new experiment will find something which cannot be accounted for by those laws.

    And then even if we do have all of the laws and even if we could somehow know that we had really got them all, there would still be phenomena consistent with those laws that we would not predict simply because knowing and understanding the fundamental laws does not enable you to immediately understand all of the possible physical phenomena consistent with them. For example, you could say if I understood Quantum Mechanics, I would understand i.e. calculate how human consciousness comes about. Not even the most expert physicist in the world today can make that claim even though they will understand QM perfectly.

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  • flintster1994 says:

    Thats where we differ p.doff.

    I do not believe that anything, and I mean anything is a given.I believe that anything can change at the drop of a hat, absolutely anything, including your examples!

    The one exception to the rules, however, is obviously property prices in the UK! Only ever up!

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  • flintster1994 says:

    Excellent points, notaneconomicsguru.

    I will certainly give them some thought. If economics is not your forte, perhaps philosophy is?

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  • shipbuilder says:

    Oil under Alaska or not – sure let’s pump away anyway – what does our home matter when we want that big pick up…..we can ignore the inevitable for a bit longer and continue to steal from and reduce the opportunities of our children. Only the truly closed and fairly sick mind sees this as a simple case of if it’s there to exploit, let’s do it.
    Our society is like a person building their house – except each new brick on top is taken from the lower floors. Everything will look grand for a while, the house getting ever taller, until the inevitable happens.
    No real change will happen until we change our culture, monetary system and so on.

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  • Flintster1994 said…I believe that anything can change at the drop of a hat, absolutely anything, including your examples!

    That is, of course, your right. If you want to believe that the World may ultimately prove to be flat, then who am I to try to convince you otherwise.

    On the other hand, I would prefer to stick with my perception of the relative spherical nature of the globe. I think that works better for me.

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  • flintster1994 says:

    “That is, of course, your right. If you want to believe that the World may ultimately prove to be flat, then who am I to try to convince you otherwise.

    On the other hand, I would prefer to stick with my perception of the relative spherical nature of the globe. I think that works better for me.”

    I had to laugh p.doff,

    Your comment was perhaps unintended comical genius, but how mad does that make me sound? Mmmmm?

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  • flintster.
    You have taken the first step towards enlightenment – well done.

    Nah, seriously, I just adopt the tactics my wife uses. Try to win an argument by any underhanded means, but usually involving discrediting the opposition through ridicule. I’ve suffered this for years!!! LOL

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  • scandinavian pessimist says:

    S2R1,
    You are pretty brave, your reputation could take a big hit if you are wrong on this one.

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  • flintster1994 says:

    No reflection on you whatsoever s2r1,

    but I seldom laugh out loud. Sometimes the simplest things can do it.

    Davros @ 35

    “You are quite, quite mad aren’t you.”

    So simple and to the point, yet biting!

    Or maybe it’s just me.

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  • flintster1994 says:

    James,

    You don’t actually serve any sort of purpose whatsoever do you?

    Your just sort of there!

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  • Your just sort of there!

    Or even, You’re just sort of there!

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  • why did rothschilds’ reuters run this promo on a water powered car?

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  • here’s the original post

    The final oil collapse is close
    The Guardian: Bush calls for lifting of ban on Alaska oil drilling
    George Bush, responding to public alarm over soaring petrol prices, yesterday proposed overturning decades-old bans on drilling for oil off the US coast and in the pristine Alaskan wilderness. “There’s no excuse for delay,” the president told a White House press conference. America was too dependent on countries abroad, many of them in unstable regions.

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  • who on earth managed to persuade admin to wipe out my peaceful comment at numero uno?

    a quote from chapter 17 of matey’s book

    I don’t think there was anything off topic or offensive in it – not even controversial

    btw – 85. flintster1994 said…
    James,

    You don’t actually serve any sort of purpose whatsoever do you?

    Your just sort of there!

    very, very funny – unless you’re james of course – but nonetheless very true.

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  • I don’t see anyone contesting Williams’ info.

    just abuse and distractions

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    comment numero uno suddenly seems kinda important.
    What did you say, malct?
    Post it again in a reworded form.

    G.

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  • 91. gardeniadotnet said…
    comment numero uno suddenly seems kinda important.
    What did you say, malct?
    Post it again in a reworded form.G – wish I could, i picked out several bits from the chapter that seemed important, didn’t save it thinking there wasn’t a problem.

    the whole chapter is here :- http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis-ch17.html

    and strangely the reference to the whole book is still at no.8

    s2r1 also (as I did earlier) links to the video

    don’t understand why this has happened, unless there was something I lifted from chapter 17 that was sensitive to some VI

    OK too dramatic, too late just wish I’d saved it.

    G. normally you are a flippant joker – now I see you have a serious side, interesting

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >G. normally you are a flippant joker – now I see you have a serious side, interesting

    Er, thanks…. I think.

    Re: chapter 17 – continue with the “dripfeed” of information. You’ll get your message across eventually.

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  • G no offence intended

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    None taken. Keep up the good work.

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  • None except to hold s2r1 to account – given how repeatedly wrong he is, I do ‘get’ why you wish I didn’t do that. Oh – and posting the odd article that does actually directly relate to hpc.

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  • In fact, much as this site was a lone voice against crazy house prices in 2006, I’m a bit of a lone voice (along with p doff and shipbuilder) against crazy posters here…

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