Thursday, June 19, 2008

The EU. A true democracy!

Our EU masters have no sense of shame

Guinness and oysters combined can make for a dreadful hangover. Celebrating the Irish way, after the good citizens of the republic had bravely rejected Lisbon and all its works, seemed like a good idea at the time. But after the party that followed such a rare piece of good news for Euro-sceptics, comes the blistering hangover. Why can those involved not see that the Euro-project lacks any popular mandate? Irish voters may have thought they had killed the treaty, but, in the European Union, no never quite means no; or rather no seems not to matter. And, our peers also bulldozed it through the Lords.

Posted by flintster1994 @ 01:38 PM (725 views)
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7 thoughts on “The EU. A true democracy!

  • “The polls are quite clear: the most recent YouGov survey, conducted for Open Europe this week, showed that just 14 per cent of those polled think our Government should continue ratifying Lisbon. Only 29 per cent of those polled want to continue our current relationship with Europe, while 38 per cent want to stay in the single market but withdraw from the other political aspects of the EU. Almost a quarter want to withdraw completely.”

    So it’s clear what this article is about. Getting out of Europe completely, not the Lisbon Treaty. But if you ask people about the political aspects of the EU, what will they tell you? I willing to bet that not many people understand the EU structures, what it is trying to achieve and why there is pressure for these reform treaties in any case. But as this is the standard Torygraph nonsense you don’t get the full story, only the ‘we don’t like Europe’ crap.

    As to popular mandate, if there was a Europe-wide referendum, would that be acceptable? Probably not, because that would be a resounding Yes. But the view would be — these foreigners don’t have any role in telling us Brits what to do. So what sort of democracy would be needed to make Europe workable? It seems from the attitude of this article that nothing would fit the bill.

    To leave Europe will not mean our economy stops working. But it will mean that it doesn’t work nearly as well as it has been. Before we joined in 1973 GB was the laughing stock of Europe. If we leave we will become that laughing stock again. We do so much trade with Europe that our leaving will inevitably impact that.

    Europe IS our future. We will NEVER be a world power again — and can only share in some of the global glories by being a part of a larger grouping. That’s a fact — get used to it!

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  • Dude,

    If you think the EC has been good for the UK you are sadly deluded. We never had a good reason for going in, and we have lost money on the deal every year since.

    It provides a lavish rest home for failed politicians, but achieves precious little besides.

    When people are denied ballots, or those ballots are rigged or ignored, they eventually put their faith in bullets. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.

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  • Uncle Tom,

    I can’t agree about being denied ballots. First the idea that we have a referendum is frankly laughable. You are simply going to get those who don’t like it voting no, and they simply won’t listen to the arguments, and those who do like it will vote yes. As to the rest, they will not have enough information to decide which way to vote, and so will probably stay away. So their votes will be worthless.

    A vote would be ludicrous for precisely the reason that our media refuse to engage in a sensible debate, because many of the proprietors are either American or American-leaning, and greatly dislike any move towards Europe. The Telegraph is a good case in point.

    If you don’t get a rational debate about the issues, and only talk about your ‘rights’ to have a referendum, then that will achieve nothing, and the political class (of all hues) have been right to refuse such a demand. If we are talking about a treaty with another country (for example the extradition treaty with the US) we never got a vote on that. The idea behind parliamentary democracy is just that, to let parliament discuss this. They have the expertise and that is the right and proper place to have these discussions. You are well within your rights to go and lobby your MP.

    The argument about lavish rest homes is simply farsicle. The European Commission is tiny, and you are talking about less than 50 people, out of 500 million in Europe. The Commission as an organisation itself is only about 30,000 people. Focus that argument at the fat cats of industry that award themselves excessive bonuses and you may have a stronger point.

    Remember that most of Europe wants to be in Europe. It’s only because the few that like to dictate the news in the UK don’t want us in that we have the opposition that we have. If people don’t even know about the institutions and how tiny they really are, how on earth is it right that they should be given a vote?

    If you vote no because you’ve been told it’s bad and so you don’t like it — you’re a moron. If you vote no and can articulate a reason as to why (and I’m sorry ‘surrendering our powers to Europe’ simply won’t wash, that’s not informed) then that’s different.

    I personally believe that Europe (sui generis) has been, and continues to be, amazing! And remember, it’s not them imposing rules on us, it is everybody imposing rules on everybody. (And I’ve not even got to the European Parliament…)

    So I’m sorry, but as I said I simply cann’t agree with you.

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  • greytornado says:

    A rather famous British Lady PM once said; – “Europe has only ever been united under tyranny”. She realised all too late where it was all heading. We are sunk now – the Queen apparently gave the Royal Assent this morning.

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  • Dude,

    Your argument in favour of ‘europe’ perfectly demonstrates why it needs to be killed off as quickly as possible.

    You are either on the gravy train, or incredibly naive.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    We gained many liberties. BUT, gave too much away. Its quite simple. Politics is always like that, it is an oscillating system, and the system went too far. Just as people said that house prices can only go up, they now say that the European Union can only go up. Well, I’m here to tell you that the liberties lost to the EU can be got back. Unfortunately, the ruling class will have a sting in their tail, but we should not fear it, because the reaction to the reversal of this fascist movement will be greater than anything gained from inaction.

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