Thursday, June 5, 2008

Peak water

Drought 'to be biggest world risk'

A catastrophic water shortage could prove an even bigger threat to mankind this century than soaring food prices and the relentless exhaustion of energy reserves, according to a panel of global experts at the Goldman Sachs "Top Five Risks" conference.

Posted by sold 2 rent 1 @ 08:50 AM (3425 views)
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102 thoughts on “Peak water

  • You’ll get flamed for this….

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    Anyone watching the BBC’s Wild China would have picked this idea up last week.
    The big question is how long do we have to fix this problem?

    Intuition says the “fifth night” crisis in summer 2011 will be centred around this water issue.
    And how will we fix this probklem? Co-creation of course. Creativity is born out of chaos

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  • There is no overall shortage (remember the recent ‘debates’ on water powred engines). It’s localised problems. We have 2 ways out.

    1. Let the city spivs buy and sell it for profit.

    or

    2. Transport it to where it is needed for free (or at the cost of the richest nations).

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  • You can turn sea water into drinking water, might not taste like Evian but you can live on it.

    I thought sea levels were rising.

    Therefore I suggest we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

    So I suggest property purchases in the Maldives and Venice and shares in a Saline filtration company.

    There, that’s that problem sorted out.

    Next.

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  • str 2007 – I believe that the problem with your suggestion is the energy use required for desalination.

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  • Goldman are forecasting a rise in water futures, which means they’re probably going to short it.

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  • Cornishman

    Then we should invent a wind, tide and solar powered Saline filtration station then.

    After all it will be on the coast.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    str 2007,

    Nice idea but you would have to desalinate and pump enough water for 3 billion people.
    The pumping would have to feed to all the Himalayan rivers. A big ask.

    My guess is we need a new approach.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    “A Goldman Sachs report said water was the “petroleum for the next century”, offering huge rewards for investors who know how to play the infrastructure boom. The US alone needs up to $1,000bn (£500bn) in new piping and waste water plants by 2020.”

    “Goldman Sachs advises investors to focus on the high-tech end of the world’s $425bn water industry.”

    “It is difficult to find a “pure play” on water equities. GE is a market leader in the field, but the sector makes up just 2pc of its colossal turnover.”

    Above should explain why the world we live in is utterly screwed. Absolutely disgusting.

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  • The real problem isnt with finding enough drinking water for people -thats a tiny part of the total consumption. Agriculture and industry are massive users of water. To date they have mostly been drilling bore holes and pumping water which accumulated over thousands of years up for free. In many places, like central Spain that water supply is now almost exhausted. Even if you invest billions in massive desalination plants and 1000s of miles of new water mains it is a) too expensive for agriculture b)the salt remaining in the water gradually accumulates in the soil and after 10 or 20 years the soil is contaminated and will not support crops.

    This is a real issue, not a scare story. Like most other environmental issues, it all comes back to fact that there are far too many of us.

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  • Rentinginthesouth says:

    How about reducing salt in our diets as a substitute for sea water?

    Alternatively, we could desalinise our urine…. that definately won’t taste like evian.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Yes, but it is industry, with its inefficient appliances, its aweful mass-argriculture that is completely out of harmony with nature, i.e. plants that need lots of water in drought prone areas. AND, it is profligerate use by large industry’s. Plus, of course, the massive inflation in water costs, from the billions, nay I say, Trillions, “borrowed”/printed by central banks for corporations to purchase our utilities. Don’t let this become an arm of eugenics, where the general public are seen as the enemy!

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  • @s2r1

    I don’t think the big rivers are going dry up, the article talks of the Himalayas acting as a sponge to regulate the speed the water flows.

    The problems resulting are flooding etc. and top soil run off.

    I’m clearly no expert, but my comments were really aimed at drinking water.

    China etc. will need to re-organise themselves around what is likely to happen (when they’ve worked out what in deed that will be).

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  • planning4acrash

    Our whole economy is dependent on digging finite resources up from the ground – oil, gas, coal, copper, steel, uranium etc. Growing populations simply increase the rate of depletion. The global population in 1930 was around 2.5 billion, currently around 7 billion and heading rapidly to 12 billion. I don’t have the answer, I find the realities of population control as abhorrent as anybody, but we are heading for a massive resource crunch and water will be a battlefield in many parts of the world (although not the UK fortunately) .

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  • First and foremost taxation will restrict water consumption. It is the perfect commodity for revenue,better than oil and I dare say the plans are already in process.

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  • We need a New World Order. There are just too many people in the world and the drain on the planets resources is unsustainable. Who would have thought 50 years ago that pollution, resource depletion and climate change would be such a problem? I mean CLIMATE CHANGE for goodness sake.

    I fear that human beings by nature are inherently competitive and greedy, and it is impossible to self regulate this attitude, even when we are faced with our possible destruction. Most people on this site (and the conspiracy sites) bang on about the luminaries/oligarchs/bankers or whoever stealing all our wealth, and the BTL lot are accused of the same attitude in a small way. If the truth be known, most of us would have a go if given the opportunity. Even the act of pro-creation is antisocial in the case of very large families. Does altruism really exist? I mean I send money every month via a charity organisation to an African child and her family, together with a small gift at Christmas and on her birthday. Does this make me a better person? No, I suspect I do it because it makes me feel good. The same goes for the conservation organisations that I support. Bill Gates gives away millions (which he won’t miss) and I bet that makes him feel a better person too.

    We humans have created companies so that we can all buy into and trade shares. Companies are even worse, they have no soul or conscience and will protect themselves and their profits at all times at the expense of people.

    So a New World Order it is then. An all powerful mechanism for overseeing and controlling us for our own benefit and salvation. The end of all wars; an end to the waste of resources on weapons and armies; no need for stupid politicians to tinker around the edges. OK, so a few bods at the top will be rich and powerful beyond imagination; so what, it’s a small price to pay.

    Spoken in jest?

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  • nopensionnohouse says:

    Water shortage? Not in this country there isn’t! It falls out of the sky. Astonishing!

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  • last_days_of_disco says:

    I am sorry, but after the housing bubble how dare these guys show their faces in public. One thing I have learned from dot com and this housing bubble is *never* pay any attention to “analysts”, especially Goldman who are so blatantly corrupt.

    I mean this shameless ramping:

    0. Dot com
    1. Housing
    2. Gold + Oil + Wheat
    3. Now water

    What is next?

    I know, how about we have world shortage of sewerage plants, its going to result in worldwide disease everyone will be drinking their own …. Hey maybe Goldman can hire me as an “expert” and I could literally spout this shite for them. I could get in the newspapers and be famous woohoo, I am on my way…

    At what point are we just going to tell these guys to shut up and sit down?

    I suppose this is the outcome of globalisation. Before, the stupidity could be contained, now it just runs like wildfire through the whole world. Great job everyone!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    So, buctoomtim, do you agree with the New World Order then, in their attempts to depopulate country’s by pumping us full of chemicals from the water supply, murcury and other nasty stuff like formaldahyde via innoculations, flouride and various other mass medications like aspartame, etc in. that eat away at the brain, via the proliferation of radiation via mobile phones, contrails, etc, and many more things that are so scary that I do not want to go into them right now.

    Ask the question and do research on the stats, how many people do you know who had cancer, allergies, ashma, diabeties or obesity before 1990? How many kids had lukemia a few even a decade ago? It used to make front page news, now, it doesn’t even make the back sections of local papers. We now have lukemia clusters. There has been an explosion in all these things, just look at the stats. With these story’s we, the public, are being trained to accept our extermination as a necessary process. And, lets not blame progress, a muted media and muted and paid off scientific community would be more than capable of dealing with these issues. There is no excuse.

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  • http://dieoff.org/

    DIE OFF
    “If a path to the better there be, it begins with a full look at the worst.”
    — Thomas Hardy

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p.doff said, “We need a New World Order.”

    Finally, you show your true colours. So, people, p.doff is happy for this to happen. He is probably quite happy that the world’s elite are now making decision about eugenics and Iran, here and now, in Bildeburg in Virgina, this week. Make no mistake, we are under attack, and the rigged futures market are merely a weapon of propoganda in a wider war against us, the citizen.

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  • Oh, shut up.

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  • theboltonfury says:

    P4Ac your rambling again, time or your lie down!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    It used to be 1 in 35 or so dying of cancer, now its 1 in 4, it is projected for 1 in 2 by 2020. Note that people in the 3rd world are dying right now in mass through higher food costs. Make no mistake, this is eugenics in process. Step 1, filter your water, step 2, don’t hold a mobile by your head, use speaker phone, landlines and don’t have it on in your pocket. Step 2, have a good look at your food sources and medication, step 3, detox.

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  • theboltonfury says:

    oh for f**ks sake! What is wrong with you? You need locking up

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Step 4, get involved with groups like No2id, We are change, etc. Lets all get burning copies of loosing change and taking liberties to your friends and families. The time is now.

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  • Well done ‘planning’. Another interesting thread you’ve killed off. Is it a conspiracy or are you totally imprevious to any sense of time and place?

    ps thats a rhetorical question. Please don’t reply.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    We’ve just had weeks of heavy rain, the sun comes out, they say that we are all going to suffer from drought, that we all need to be controlled and repressed, and you actually call me the mad one? Note, that my steps to combatting this are pretty damn sane.

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  • theboltonfury says:

    who is ‘they’ – the voices in your head? The lizard people?

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  • @planning4acrash: “It used to be 1 in 35 or so dying of cancer, now its 1 in 4, it is projected for 1 in 2 by 2020.”

    I am unsure whether the writer thinks this is the result of a conspiracy, or an inevitable result of medical advances and progress?

    If the latter then fair enough – otherwise, they probably should stick to talking about house prices.

    That also has the advantage of being on-topic.

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  • Bolton Fury

    Stop – I’m crying with laughter.

    BTW Interest rates on hold

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  • planning4acrash says:

    No, I always said that I think the Lizard conspiracy is nonsense, it is an apology for some types of Creationists, who can’t reconcile Human’s coming about without making up something stupid to replace evolution. The people I am talking about are all meeting this week in at the Bildeburg meeting in Virginia this week. They are normal people, who happen to be alied to the financiers, defence contractors and a couple of other vested interest groups. It happened in the 1930’s, after the great depression. Fascism is bred by economic depression. What makes you so arrogant to believe that it could not happen again, after we all know that the USA president was first elected under a false ballot in Florida! 9/11 is exact in impact to the Reichstag fire that led to Hitler bringing in the ID cards, the end of Hebus Corpus, laws exactly the same as the patriot Act, the laws here that ban protest, that give police the right to lock up prisoners without trial. This is the exact process taken by Hitler, and Hitler’s philosophy was led by Eugenics.

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  • Sorry all. Couldn’t resist the NWO baiting bit – Light blue touch paper and retire to 20 metres.

    I do believe elements of what I said though and I think something unpleasant is heading this way, but I certainly don’t know what the solution is (It definitely isn’t just buying gold either).

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  • There are too many people on this planet. Full stop. Until we address this problem, or nature addresses it for us, we are doomed to suffer.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    So, p.doff, who do you think is leading it, and why? Are they justified? Your chance to add to the debate.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    So, Doh, you will be happy to kill yourself? Or is it everybody else who will have to die?! Pray tell, because the implications of what you say, are complete evil.

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  • theboltonfury says:

    @30 – well that clears that right up then. As long as it’s not the lizards.

    how do you know all this stuff? Are you a YouTube superuser?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Just start with watching “loose change final cut” and by watching “taking liberties” on google video. Follow whichever route takes your interest from that point using search engines, ignore lots of the rubbish on google, I can’t lead you towards it. –

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  • theboltonfury says:

    thank you Grasshopper

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  • george monsoon says:

    I agree with Doh, there are too many people on the planet and we can’t go around killing everyone. So what is the answer? bearing children is the most basic human right that exists and probably the biggest driving instinct in human nature. I can only think of one way of doing this and that is for countries with exploding populations, to tax parents with more than two children… Its harsh, but lets face it, the only other option is education and that is the expensive answer.

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  • nopensionnohouse: ‘Water shortage? Not in this country there isn’t! It falls out of the sky. Astonishing!’

    But apparently in the SE England area – our national powerhouse of the economy – not enough of it.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    George, the West is depopulating, people are choosing smaller families. The developing world is only booming because they don’t have access to family planning services and because poverty actually encourages large families and a lack of family planning. The solution is an end of poverty and liberty, and control over corporations, not day to day, big brother control over individuals.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oops, and end of poverty, and the provision of liberty.

    Note, the resources used for war, etc. are the elite destroying the bounty, the excess goods that we can use to end poverty.

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  • P4ac.

    Nobody is leading it. Why does somebody have to? It’s a simple freak of evolution that human beings have become so successful they are outcompeting other animals on the planet. This has happened throughout the history of the planet with every dominant species. On this occasion however the dominant species has become so advanced and abundant that it is actually changing and damaging its environment.

    You needn’t worry for the planet though, (cosmic catastrophe aside) nature has a way of ensuring a correction. Nature is however very cruel and we as a species might not like the outcome.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Agreed, but the issue here is, that the corporate elite, are manipulating valid environmental issues for their end. And, that, given that they are the main culprits, they are making it worse.

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  • I give up. I knew I shouldn’t have risen to the bait.

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  • P4C @33 It’s not evil. It is a statement of fact. This planet cannot support 9 billion people living first world lives. Deal with it. Species that multiply beyond the carrying capacity of their environment destroy it and then there is great misery and suffering for all. No, I’m not happy to kill myself off, nor am I proposing popping others off. However, I am happy constraining myself and imposing some constraints on others: in my, and my partner’s, opinion anyone having more than 2 children is environmentally irresponsible, bordering on criminal. This isn’t because I wouldn’t like to have a lot of children, I would, but as a rational moral being, and applying the rule of what would happen if everyone did as you did, I must conclude that having more than 2 children is wrong given the current population of the planet. Okay we have to deal with the demographic results of that, which will mean that people will have to work longer or accept a reduced standard of living, at some stage this has to happen…we can start it now, or we can let nature take its course. The former will not be nice, the latter will be much much worse for those that have to live/die through it. Planet Earth is finite. You cannot continue to exponentially grow a population on a finite resource…it is a mathematical fact…in the end we would be standing on each other’s shoulders. So, do we do something about it and incentivise people not to breed and accept that there is going to be some demographic “economic pain”, or do we wait for nature to take its course and have people kill each other in resource wars and starve? I know which seems the better option to me.

    If we were truly an intelligent species, we would have implemented population restraints when there were a billion or fewer of us. It wasn’t as if we weren’t warned by Malthus at the beginning of the 19th century…and please don’t trot out the usual Malthusian denial…it’s ridiculous…sort of liek throwing mud at the people who foresaw HPC in 2001/2, but didn’t foresee all the ways the banks would keep the thing afloat for another 7 years.

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  • What’s this got to do with house prices?

    Unless of course, you are suggesting that Scotland won’t be affected by the HPC because everyone will want to move their to be near all the rainy weather.

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  • @p. doff

    “I knew I shouldn’t have risen to the bait.”

    Correct. Another blog topic gone weird. Do not feed the troll.

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  • P4C ps – I don’t disagree that many resources are wasted by the elite etc. etc etc., but it doesn’t change the fundamental problem, just exacerbates it.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac – I would suggest that pollution has always happened, that interference with our natural resources and environment has always happened, due to the greed of industry and incompetence of governments. profit before people. As a response, governments cannot help but interfere, making the problem worse. There’s all sorts of reasons for cancer increase – the cr*p we all eat, the cities we live in, stressful lifestyles – all have increased with ‘economic progress’. The biggest cause of cancer is, apparently, the oxygen we breathe.
    If the NWO were as clever as people like to have us believe, why is everything done in such a complicated, roundabout and time-consuming way? Yet again, I just don’t buy it.
    Simple solution – become self-sufficient, buy less, vote out the main parties and the powerful and rich become powerless and poor very quickly.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    Population ‘control’ is a difficult one. Over the longer term the only option is gettign rid of anti-contraceptive religious nonsense, raising the quality of life of the poor and the rest will do itself. There are still enough resources on this planet to do everyone, it’s just that they are all concentrated in the West.

    The reality is that in terms of resource usage, we are the equivalent of 21 third world citizens. That gives the UK a population greater than India.

    That leaves the burden of responsibility back with us – unfortunately for the smug few who trot out the overpopulation argument as a barely disguised front for their bigotry – ‘those Africans are ruining the world, not us’. And no – i’m not accusing anyone on here of this.

    Think about it in these terms and we can all do something – drive less, buy less, eat less, work less, relax and enjoy life a bit more and save the world at the same time…

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    As the thread is officially wrecked – I just visited the site
    eutruth.org.uk

    and got the result
    http://suspended.hostgator.com/?domain=eutruth.org.uk

    So the eutruth site has been SUSPENDED. By who I wonder?
    The Irish vote in 1 week
    Stephen Wheeler’s High Court ruling on the EU Treaty is very soon too.

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  • FROM CITYWIRE

    Pictet Water manager eyes Asian stocks
    By Danielle Levy | 09:46:16 | 28 April 2008

    Hans Peter Portner, manager of the Pictet Water fund, is looking to increase the fund’s exposure towards Asian water companies.

    Portner, alongside co-managers Philippe Rohner and Louis-Mathieu Perrin, is seeing opportunities in Asian stocks and said further market volatility could present a prime opportunity to play this trend to a greater extent. At 2.6% Tokyo-based Kurita Industries is the ninth largest holding in the portfolio, which is invested in water-related companies.

    Veolia Environment is the fund’s largest holding with a weighting of 6.6%, followed by Suez at 5.3% and Nestle at 5.1%.

    Portner and his team have a bias towards more defensive holdings in water supply and packaged water companies, but the fund also has cyclical exposure through positions in water technology and environmental services.

    Over the three years to the end of March the Pictet Water fund has returned 33.7% compared to a rise of 59.5% by the FTSE AW/Gas Water Multi-utilities TR index.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    “why is everything done in such a complicated, roundabout and time-consuming way?” – Simple, because the elite only have a small powerbase. And they are up against billions of people. They can act via their companies, and via complex buying up of and manipulation of parliament, media and fiat money. They don’t have many levers, and they don’t, yet, control everything you do and think minute to minute. That they needed 9/11 to push through most of the changes explains the way of thinking and how people would not accept these things without games first being played.

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  • And I thought I was the wind-up merchant. You’ve beat me hands down you little devil. — er — You don’t really believe this do you?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Do you believe that financiers robbed you of housing for their financial benefit? Well, most of you do if you visit this site. Take the next logical conclusion. Unlike you p.doff, I am not capable of mind games and lying, etc. I only say what I believe in. If anybody has any evidence to the contrary, i want to hear it. If others want to say that I’m stupid, then I want you to back this up.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p. doff, just watch loose change final cut, and tell me whether or not you still trust your government with your life.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Ok, I’ll admit it, I’ve been listening to the Alex Jones show on prisonplanet.com They had an ex head of US military intelligence covering the issues I’ve discussed today.

    This week, Alex is being covered on his radio show/podcast by Jason Burmess, the man behind Loose Change, because Alex is in Virginia, covering the Bildeberg meeting.

    |’ll put on my tin hat!

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  • p4ac said:
    >>If anybody has any evidence to the contrary, i want to hear it. If others want to say that I’m stupid, then I want you to back this up.

    Turning it on it’s head why don’t you provide some proof that other can believe in? Back it up. Tell me who the elite are and how they orchestrated 9/11 to push through their changes. Just because somebody makes a video full of thoughts that cannot be refuted does not make it the truth.

    I would happily admit that I would not trust the Govt with my life but does that mean I believe “loose change final cut”? There’s a difference.

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  • 56. planning4acrash said…Do you believe that financiers robbed you of housing

    Nope, I’ve got a very nice waterside house thank you.
    OK, I shouldn’t be flippant, I know housing is a very serious affordability issue especially with the younger generation and many on this site. But it’s not a conspiracy, it’s the downside of business and capitalism.

    What I do see is human greed at work, with bonus hungry bank bosses driven by pressure from shareholders (i.e the people – well some of them anyway) blindly ignoring the risks involved in order to make vast profits for the companies that they manage. I see competing banks each afraid that the other might do better, joining the frenzy by shoving their snouts in the trough while the going is good in order to satisfy the demand from speculators (the people). I now see banks having write downs, losses and rights issues, with CEOs resigning or ‘retiring’ due to ‘ill health”. This hardly smacks of an orchestrated conspiracy by a clever super elite of the NWO, it smacks of incompetence and lack of foresight by fragmented individuals and companies, helped along by government politicians who will use any means to create the illusion of a healthy economy in order to stay in power for personal gain.

    Shipbuilder @ 50 puts it succinctly with his usual clarity of thought. Why indeed should the NWO implement their plan in the most roundabout route. It makes no sense whatsoever that they should e.g. invent the story that 9/11 was hit by aeroplanes when in fact they had intentionally blown it up with some clever new explosive. I mean why, for God’s sake risk that story in broad daylight, with potentially thousands of onlookers, when all they had to do was sneak in with the explosive and claim that the bombs were set off by terrorists. Your response @ 54 is self defeating nonsense.

    Anyway, I know nothing anybody says or does will turn you from your fantasy, and I know I’ve just wasted the last 10 minutes of my life typing this. But what the hey, I’ve got a quiet afternoon.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p.doff, fiat currency is not capitalism, it is command and control economy. True capitalism has sound money, with a stable money supply that cannot be manipulated. Printing of money manipulates the markets, so it is not capitalism. All asset booms and crashes are a function of the manipulation of fiat currency. Look at the mises links on the mainpage of hpc link that says “academic papers on hpc”.

    – Re: short change, there are many more video’s on the subject. The fact that the 9/11 commission didn’t answer or even tackle any of the questions is enough for me to say that there is a coverup and that a new independent enquiry is required. Ditto 7/11, where we haven’t been given any enquiry, even though a government official was on record doing drills that exactly mirrored the tube and bus attacks, it was on telly, google it. This mirrors how drills were being carried out on 9/11 that were identical to the attacks.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The 9/11 commission did not even achnowledge the fall of building 7, which was a 40 something tall tower, about as big as Canary Wharf, which the BBC reporter reported as having fallen about 30mins before it actually happened! Again, look at these independently produced videos.

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  • holding out says:

    It’s pointless arguing with these consipracy theorists, they have one virtue: indefatigability – oh and loads of time on their hands what with having no mates.

    Loose change is a load of flannel. If you are convinced by a graphics designer and a failed solidier that an NWO consipracy toppled the towers then you are even thicker than I first thought and beleive me that was thick.

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  • Sorry P4ac. I’m not wasting any more time on you. There is a limit and you are a lost cause.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    I’ve had your type on here before. You won’t leave this alone. You are just like David 90210 and Glorious Sunshine. I bet you a hundred quid that you reply to this post, but hope that you leave. This is a turning point in consciousness, people are waking up, I can feel it, and HPC is leading the way. All roads lead to the Truth, you only avoid truth if you decide to not walk down the routes given to you. I brought the whole issue of fiat currency onto this site, and prior to that I believed that Peak Oil was the main cause for high oil prices!! However, I correctly predicted that house prices would go negative in May 2008 1.5yrs ago. What has changed is, that, following correct analysis of the system, is to try and understand what lies beneath, what causes this, how we are constantly duped by boom and bust, one after another.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    I’ve had your type on here before. You won’t leave this alone. You are just like David 90210 and Glorious Sunshine. I bet you a hundred quid that you reply to this post, but hope that you leave. This is a turning point in consciousness, people are waking up, I can feel it, and HPC is leading the way. All roads lead to the Truth, you only avoid truth if you decide to not walk down the routes given to you. I brought the whole issue of fiat currency onto this site, and prior to that I believed that Peak Oil was the main cause for high oil prices!! However, I correctly predicted that house prices would go negative in May 2008 1.5yrs ago. What has changed is, that, following correct analysis of the system, is to try and understand what lies beneath, what causes this, how we are constantly duped by boom and bust, one after another.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    holding out, THE GOVERNMENT STORY IS THE CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!! JUST LOOK AT WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT HOUSEPRICES!!!!!!!!!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    We are TRUTHERS, they, the Government, are the CONSPIRACY THEORISTS.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ, FOR FREAKES SAKE!!!

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  • p4ac,

    Good to see you back,keep going. its the masses that need convincing not a few individual bloggers on here.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac – in your view, what was the reason for the Iraq war? How do you think 9/11 was carried out and why? Why make it so complicated when it could have been fairly simply done?

    Please answer this question – do you accept that there are unanswered questions in every major event? Why should this one be any different?

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    p. doff #46
    At the risk of sounding patronising: Wow, well impressed!
    You’ve nailed it in seven sentences. Spot on.

    p doff said….
    > Nobody is leading it. Why does somebody have to? It’s a simple freak of evolution that human beings have become so successful they are outcompeting other animals on the planet. This has happened throughout the history of the planet with every dominant species. On this occasion however the dominant species has become so advanced and abundant that it is actually changing and damaging its environment.

    You needn’t worry for the planet though, (cosmic catastrophe aside) nature has a way of ensuring a correction. Nature is however very cruel and we as a species might not like the outcome.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    shipbuilder, have you watched loose change final cut? That answers 9/11. There are hundreds of reasons why. I’ll list a few. The building fell at free fall, 10secs. Engineers have prooved that itwould have to have fallen in more than 45secs with the resistance caused by the official pancake theory. The official story relies on kinetic energy from the plane and the kerosene. Kerosene can’t get hot enough to melt steel, and molten metal was found under each building, even via NASA thermal imigary. Building 7 fell without a plane or any debri hitting it, and the owner states, on telly that they chose to, I quote “pull it”. He owned all three buildings, and building 7 was one of the largest secret service building in America. Put options were placed for multi-millions on the airlines and companies that were destroyed. The owner insured the twin towers for terrorism a few days before the attack for billions. Bush stayed reading a book. Testaments show that Cheney lied and was in a bunker in the Pentagon, tracking the planes. The hole in the Pentagon is too small for a plane, and there was an exist hole on the other side that points to a cruise missile. No bodies or debris was found at the crash site for the plane that didn’t hit a building. The whole of Norad stood down for the entire attack, more war games were being carried out that day by the pentagon than in any other day in history, some of which simulated attacks on new york and washington.

    I could go on, but these are all on the videos.

    The motives right now are not material. The turning point first is for people to understand that we’ve been systematically lied to.
    – 9/11 has so many holes in it that it needs proper investigation, which, if you look into it, never happened, e.g. the 9/11 commission did not even consider the fall of building 7, amongst many other failings.
    – This is not a petty issue, it has been the corner stone to laws that took our liberties here and there, and that started wars that are destroying our economies and killing millions.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    sold out, you are one of the masses, tell your friends and family.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    And so another amazing thread continues, another day of “Dad, get OFF the computer!”

    This is definitely another thread I will print and put in my Blue Peter time capsule entitled: The Way We Were.

    G.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    shipbuilder, have you watched loose change final cut? That answers 9/11. There are hundreds of reasons why. I’ll list a few. The building fell at free fall, 10secs. Engineers have prooved that itwould have to have fallen in more than 45secs with the resistance caused by the official pancake theory. The official story relies on kinetic energy from the plane and the kerosene. Kerosene can’t get hot enough to melt steel, and molten metal was found under each building, even via NASA thermal imigary. Building 7 fell without a plane or any debri hitting it, and the owner states, on telly that they chose to, I quote “pull it”. He owned all three buildings, and building 7 was one of the largest secret service building in America. Put options were placed for multi-millions on the airlines and companies that were destroyed. The owner insured the twin towers for terrorism a few days before the attack for billions. Bush stayed reading a book. Testaments show that Cheney lied and was in a bunker in the Pentagon, tracking the planes. The hole in the Pentagon is too small for a plane, and there was an exist hole on the other side that points to a cruise missile. No bodies or debris was found at the crash site for the plane that didn’t hit a building. The whole of Norad stood down for the entire attack, more war games were being carried out that day by the pentagon than in any other day in history, some of which simulated attacks on new york and washington.

    I could go on, but these are all on the videos.

    The motives right now are not material. The turning point first is for people to understand that we’ve been systematically lied to.
    – 9/11 has so many holes in it that it needs proper investigation, which, if you look into it, never happened, e.g. the 9/11 commission did not even consider the fall of building 7, amongst many other failings.
    – This is not a petty issue, it has been the corner stone to laws that took our liberties here and there, and that started wars that are destroying our economies and killing millions.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    P4AC,

    Keep flying the flag

    “18. last_days_of_disco said…
    I am sorry, but after the housing bubble how dare these guys show their faces in public. One thing I have learned from dot com and this housing bubble is *never* pay any attention to “analysts”, especially Goldman who are so blatantly corrupt.
    I mean this shameless ramping:
    0. Dot com
    1. Housing
    2. Gold + Oil + Wheat
    3. Now water
    What is next?”

    The bubble in gold is yet to come. The bubble to end of bubbles in 2011.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Thanks, but, of all people, I’m surprised that, on this story, you’ve been sucked in by the shortages argument. After all we’ve discussed on fiat currency on houses, fuel, etc, etc. Of course there are water issues, but all things have issues, but the crisis? Its made by corporations, unopposed by them, and enhanced by speculators and privatisation.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    P4AC,

    Been busy this week.
    There seems little point spending hours and hours trying to convince 2 or 3 people.

    6 July is only a month away now, so these guys will find out the hard way.
    The mathematics of the universe says that consciousness can only change at a certain rate.
    I would chill a bit, wait for significant news to happen, and get your strategy sorted for the forthcoming destruction.

    What about eutruth.org.uk website being “taken down”? The NWO are rattled.

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  • The document presents a legal claim made by Schillings UK in name of their client EIM UK, Ltd towards The Planet.com Internet Services, relating to content produced in the eutruth.org forum.

    The claim relates to a discussion on a possible link between eimgroup.com, the hedge fund tailoring business and eimconsult.com, a company spezialized in diverse topics around workplace performance, including human reengineering, perception, absenteeism reduction programs and similar, presented in the forum, and also linking the eimconsult.com group to belgian paedophile Marc Dutroux and the scandal around him. Chairman Arpad Busson of EIM UK, also is the chairman of ARK, a company providing privatized public schooling, with allegedly dubious learning content.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    http://drjn.co.uk/

    This site came up as being theirs too.

    If they are anything like this, actions like that, if not a technical hitch, will merely embolden them, and the fightback and backlash will cause more problems for them than they envisaged. The truth movement now is like a whip. Its about to snap back, it will with a critical mass of truth and truthers.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oops, if they are anything like me!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    S2R, I had a similar battle getting people to understand fiat currency, and, we know that journalists from the main press visit here. That is the why.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    S2R, if you are right, their power games will be like pushing on a slack rope, they will get redundant, and, I am starting to percieve the stuff you are describing, because, you know that I’m passionate, well, I can be Machiavellian at times, but am finding that I can’t be that way anymore, that it exhausts me, but somehow, many issues in my professional and personal life have been resolved, all of a sudden, with the co-operation of others, who seem in someway transformed to listening and discussing and problem solving. Its happened at work, its happened at home.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    S2R, most of the we are change video’s are offline. Info war steps up? How do we deal with this stuff if the internet goes down?

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac – I watched loose change a while ago as 9/11 was a subject I was interested in. Then I looked into the opposing views and critiques, including some from the 9/11 truth movement itself. ‘Experts’ have been shown to be misquoted or misrepresented. After watching ‘final cut’ I wondered why it had almost completely changed, with multiple fairly basic mistakes cut out. Not very reassuring. In fact the more I looked into it, the more I realised how disconnected, random and ridiculous the various ‘alternatives’ were. In fact, you might say my ‘consciousness changed’.
    Yes, of course the are questions to be answered, but is this really the best you can come up with? Have you even bothered to read any books on structural engineering or do any first-hand research youself, or are you restricted to simply cherry-picking from Alex Jones’s various self-promoting websites?

    82. sold 2 rent 1 said…

    “6 July is only a month away now, so these guys will find out the hard way.
    The mathematics of the universe says that consciousness can only change at a certain rate.
    I would chill a bit, wait for significant news to happen, and get your strategy sorted for the forthcoming destruction.”

    Words fail me…….

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Shipbuilder. They cut bits out because they had been said before, that is the only reason for most of the bits cut out. If you acknowledge that questions haven’t been answered, and recognise that the whole UK, US foreign military and domestic civil liberties policy have been based on it, how can you defend it, or our government’s policy?
    Damn it, I want to believe that there isn’t a conspiracy, the main lie spread by debunkers is that conspiracy theories fill a gap in people’s lives. The truth is, that it does the opposite. Seeing how things really work, gives you sleepless nights. Knowing that we went to war and lost part of our freedom of speech on a lie offers no comfort.

    – So, pray tell, which questions do you think are real? Lets start with the specific issues I rose, debate me on them.
    Which questions do you feel have been answered and how, because, you are still throwing abstract arguments at me. You still haven’t made a specific statement or question of substance. Show me the beef?

    &, notwithstanding how comfortable you are with metaphysics, S2R has a right to his views, as you are to yours. It is a disgrace to rubbish me and S2R, and anybody else by throwing general abuse. Whether or not words fail you, or whether or not you want me to shut up is immaterial to anything but your own subjective point of view.

    DEBATE ME ON THE ISSUES, ASK AND ANSWER SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, PROVIDE ACTUAL INFORMATION OR STOP BLOGGING WITH A PUERIL, PAVLOVIAN, CONDITIONED RESPONSE!

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    P4ac,

    http://video.google.com

    Zeitgeist is on Google video home page. Chill man. The tide is turning.

    shippy,
    Your consciousness has failed you……

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac – you vaguely answered one of my questions with ‘the motives right now are not material’, and ignored the others, including the one I specifically asked you to answer. You also failed to confirm if you had done any first-hand research.

    “If you acknowledge that questions haven’t been answered, and recognise that the whole UK, US foreign military and domestic civil liberties policy have been based on it, how can you defend it, or our government’s policy?” – But didn’t you say that the motives are immaterial?

    I’m not sure ‘words fail me’ is general abuse, but ‘these guys will find out the hard way’ is certainly pretty nauseating.

    You talk about the issues, so let’s look at the issues – normal fires can reach 1000 degC. I’m pretty sure that the fuel wasn’t the only thing burning after the towers collapsed.

    Nicked from ‘Debunking 9/11 conspiracies’ –
    http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/Design/

    Chunks of the building were in free fall – they clearly hit the ground first –

    http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf

    Your response to these? You must have seen them before, so I ask – why believe loose change rather than these?

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  • shipbuilder says:

    s2r1 – seen Zeitgeist, as i’ve said before, many times. Exactly like the Da Vinci code – takes unconnected subjects, connects them with zero evidence. Not convinced.

    Please tell me one thing – what evidence have you looked at that debunks these theories and why did you reject it?

    I await your response.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    You know that I am a planner, not an engineer!! No, I haven’t done direct research, have you?

    Chunks of the building were in free fall – they clearly hit the ground first – Bits of the building hitting the ground before the main bit? Can only be explained by charges being detonated beneath the point of aircraft impact, and, from bits that are ejected sideways by charges (not possible with the pancake theory) that have a free reign down. But, notwithstanding that, it fell in less than 10secs, which is at the speed of gravity, and, if the pancake theory were right, that would be impossible, because each floor would have provided significant resistance to the fall, so the fall would have taken closer to 40secs. REMEMBER, a chunk of the building, greater than the weight of the aircraft, was ejected sideways at such a rate that it flew more than 400ft from the building, to be embedded in an adjoining building which, did not fall.

    Kerosene would have burned harder than most things in the building, and, kerosene burns at a similar heat to a cooker, as we know, cookers don’t burn steel pans, which are not fireproofed by the way, and, steel, will be cooler than the flames. Even if the fire was 100degrees, the steel would not have got close to that.

    So, over to you, how about the molten metal (indicative of Thermate/Thermite used in controlled demolitions) and the collapse of WTC Building 7?
    – I note that some of you have referred to engineered demolition substrates, which have only been exposed recently in a peer reviewed article. Are you being put up to this? You seem to know a lot for somebody who doesn’t agree with it.


    Richard_Gage

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  • shipbuilder says:

    And s2r1, i’d like to ask you AGAIN, because I don’t think you answered me last time – you keep mentioing ‘black swans’ – but isn’t ‘The Black Swan’ in direct conflict with your models that claim to predict future events? I wonder why you combine them?

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  • shipbuilder says:

    “Kerosene would have burned harder than most things in the building, and, kerosene burns at a similar heat to a cooker, as we know, cookers don’t burn steel pans, which are not fireproofed by the way, and, steel, will be cooler than the flames. Even if the fire was 100degrees, the steel would not have got close to that.”

    This is rubbish and you know it. the molten metal was under the building, as you said, after fires had been burning for days, plenty of time for the steel to heat up – read the link.

    As for the freefall CALCULATIONS – read the other link and stop re-posting your inital point without re-qualification.

    This research took me 10 minutes – I wonder why you didn’t bother, so I ask AGAIN. Why believe loose change and not this?

    You are basing what seems to be a major change in your way of thinking on one side of the story, without direct research. Is that wise?

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  • planning4acrash says:
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  • planning4acrash says:

    The molten metal, and the 9/11 commission admitted this, without even achnowledging the molten metal, have you read the report? They did not explain it. A peer review article has now been released saying that Thermate was the only possible way of producing molten metal. The molten metal was at many thousands of degrees, impossible with a kerosene fire.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Kerosene is used in camping stoves. The steel girders in the WTC were of the highest quality and fireproofed. There are no other steel structures in history than the three that fell on 9/11, yes, three, see the video above, that have ever fallen via fire alone.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Try to melt steel with a camping stove, I DARE YOU!

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    s2r1,

    I love your sincerity and I’m fascinated by your posts, BUT I gotta know….

    Do you have excuses prepared for July 7th IF you are proved to be wrong, even in timing? I predict you’ll have a large audience, waiting expectantly, and for the most part, they’re a tough crowd!

    G.

    s2r1said>…..6 July is only a month away now, so these guys will find out the hard way

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    @str1

    Alternatively, you may be required to give an acceptance speech, but that’s too scary to contemplate, even for my open mind!

    G.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    ……However, ever the mercenary, whether YOU are elected, sold2rent1, or YOU, p.doff, I’ll take the post of Minister for New Fuel and New Energy in your cabinets.

    G.

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