Monday, June 9, 2008
If it is good enough for the FT, it can appear here
The truth is out there
According to a show of hands that February afternoon, several hundred people in the immaculate church believe this to be true. Some came in T-shirts bearing the words “9/11 was an inside job”. One wore a badge demanding that you “Examine your assumptions”. Quite a few bought the DVDs on sale in the foyer, most of which bore photographs of the Twin Towers spewing smoke. They had all come to hear the message of Architects, Engineers & Scientists for 9/11 Truth, one of the dozens of groups across the US which campaign to persuade us that everything we think we know about 9/11 is wrong.
Posted by lvmreader @ 10:23 AM (2156 views)
89 thoughts on “If it is good enough for the FT, it can appear here”
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lvmreader says:
Poor assumptions led to a Housing bubble. People need to know what happened and why it happened.
Let’s debate: was the housing bubble only supposed to be a short term thing and certain powerful folk expected to have invaded Iraq, conquered it and stolen resources by now?
Because many sources seem to point at THAT being the reason for 9/11.
pelethar says:
Hey, here’s an idea. Why don’t you just post up links to every single article on the FT’s website. Chuck in Bloomberg, MSN Money, Yahoo Finance, the Economist, and the business sections of every newspaper while you’re at it. They’ll all be at least vaguely to do with finance or economics and so will have some sort of a link to house prices on some level. The rest of us will just have to learn to love it, and you can relax in the comfortable knowledge that you made your point.
Marge says:
Please remove these irrelevant spazzy dribblings from HPC.
lvmreader says:
Feel free to NOT read this site @Pelethar
Stevie Dee says:
@pelethar.. Ivmreader is correct in what he says, it’s not a conspiracy, it’s fact, like with any lie, it eventually falls foul on intelligent people. Like with the people who have come to this website, something of an intellectual capacity drove you to come here. Remember peole who came long before any mention of a crash have talked about the inevitable and labelled as “nutters”, now with financial maelstrom now being visited on the world in various dimensions just goes to prove that everything has a relevance, and if it seems “off the wall”, then you are entitled to your opinion. But don’t put down people’s opinion, just because you want your moment of fame. Creep.
lvmreader says:
@Pelethar,
You aren’t so hot at Economics, Finance or Business are you?
lvmreader says:
Wow, this man Mr Barber has really gone to town on this article. I guess he will put down the facts (both sides) and let people make their own mind up.
Marge says:
lvmreader is the cancer that is destroying hpc
Mr Realist. says:
Daft americans… They’ll believe anything. I don’t suppose the tower in Spain had tonnes of aviation fuel burning in it? Next they’ll create a religion based on the belief that aliens exist – hold on, they’ve already done that.
With regards to the correlation between the current financial crisis and 9/11: Alan Greenspan lowered interest rates post 9/11 in order to provide confidence in the markets. The fact that this low interest rate has been exploited by some to sell high risk products is really a separate issue. Such bulls are always waiting for opportunities to make a quick buck (well lots of bucks, actually).
Finally, 9/11 was a horrific act and these people trivialise the whole matter.
Kevin Monk says:
This article is a poor posting and not relevant to HPC.
Stevie Dee says:
@Marge.. harsh comments angel..
lvmreader says:
@Marge,
I have been posting heavily for up to 2 years here. How am I suddenly cancer?
Killerbee says:
Zeitgeist the movie. Watch it and wonder.
pelethar says:
Wow Stevie… the phrase “what are you really angry about” comes to mind.
To be clear about it, I don’t have a problem with anyone expressing their opinions, and wouldn’t disrespect those opinions either. I have a major problem though with people flooding this website with irrelevant and barely-relevant news articles.
As far as 9/11 goes, like lots of others I watched “Loose Change”, and was dumbfounded by what seemed to be a massive story. So I did some research and quickly found rational, scientific evidence to dismantle pretty much all the arguments put forward by the people behind the film. So, for me, that was that. If others want to continue the argument they should be encouraged – people expressing hostility towards them just encourage them to feel persecuted. But would it be too much to ask them to use one of the thousands of 9/11 conspiracy websites to do so, rather than one about the UK housing market?
inbreda says:
“9/11 was a horrific act ”
not as bad as what the americans and brits have done in retaliation. Well – retaliation is not the right word, because they are not fighting back – they are just using 9/11 as an excuse to invade a country that is in no way implicated in 9/11 in order to steal its oil. Now THAT is trivialising 9/11.
lvmreader says:
@Mr Realist,
Great. Opinion is important. Debate is good. So after 9/11 the interest rates had to fall to maintain economic confidence. It just happened to create a monster housing bubble. Now if 9/11 WAS an inside job, then I guess the housing bubble was an unintended consequence.
Let the “Conspiracy Theorists” be proved wrong. If they are wrong, the facts will prove it. If you prevent people being able to talk about things, you will drive it underground and make people believe something is there. Imagine if we had a law saying that “You could not believe Elvis Presley was alive”. Why would you need that? Just let the people who believe it, believe it. It causes no harm to have a differing point of view.
But when some “so – called” Conspiracy Theorists are very smart people with operational experience and more access to more facts than Joe Public, then what harm in listening.
Michael Meacher MP is an early conspiracy theorist.
lvmreader says:
The Japanese Parliament actually debate 9/11 being an inside job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH1UA3ijXug
They (and many others) seem to think that an economically failing America needed to invade other countries for resources.
rocket robbie says:
Ivmreader
Keep posting mate there is plenty of people on this site who like reading these type of posts so dont let some of the above people put you off.
I am open minded and like reading both sides of the argument so dont let childish name callers put you off. I dont think they are even worth responding.
lvmreader says:
Remember, that the FT (The Financial Times) posted the story (thanks to Japanese Uncle for pointing it out).
lvmreader says:
@Marge,
Marge – don’t read this site then.
Do you remember that episode of the Simpsons where Homer is wrongly accused of molesting the babysitter. And he is ridiculed and lambasted on local and national TV. And then it turns out that he was just trying to get a Gummi Bear sweet.
And at the end, when Homer is gladly accussing other people of things which may or may not be true, Marge says “Have you learned anything Homer?”
Predictably, he hasn’t.
People came to the site in the first place to hear what the “House Price Crash Nutters” were saying over 4 years ago. All that ridicule and yet we were right.
How can you know that some other stuff isn’t right too?
brian t says:
This was in the FT’s Weekend Magazine section. Other articles in that section last weekend include:
– “Natural Running” (about people who run with no shoes on)
– “Walking with bats”. (Ever seen a bat walk?)
– “Thalidomide is back” (…)
– “Where networking blossoms” (doing deals at the Chelsea Flower Show)
It’s a human interest story for the weekend – ooh, look at the conspiracy freaks – not an endorsement by the FT.
pelethar says:
Marge, please do keep reading the site. Don’t be scared off by this nasty little bully.
Jmac says:
@lvmreader
Take your cr@p and post it at some loony conspiracy website because it has nothing to do with our house price crash and it seriously damages the credibility of this website.
brian t says:
“I have been posting heavily for up to 2 years here. How am I suddenly cancer?”
“That mole on my side was fine for years. How was it suddenly cancer?” Because it changed, after years of normality. Like the investment ads state: “past performance is no guide to future value”.
drewster says:
Personally I found this article interesting. It’s not a cheerleader for the various “9/11 Truth” movements, simply an objective look at the different groups of people involved. I’d complain vehemently if the article was spouting biased opinions and poorly-researched factoids; but that’s not the case here. This is a serious, well-written article from the FT. If you only read one article on the subject this year then make it this one. Whether you believe it or not, I think it’s good to be aware of the possibilities and counter-possibilities.
Thanks for posting this, lvmreader.
Stevie Dee says:
@pelethar..
I’m not angry.. believe it when I tell you this, no conspiracy.. people use to come on here and talk about people belonging to the “tin foil hat brigade”.. really.. and other derogatory comments aimed at people discussing the possibility of a crash.. as for 9/11, it was merely a horrific distraction, an excuse, a plan executed by the insane, meanwhile, a distraction was played on the domestic front (property), to provide a “feel good factor” for the masses, when in reality it was merely a mirage. Reading articles about War, I believe that eventually the people have to pay for such exercises, and this will no doubt be the case again. And the question is, how is Iraq today? Have the production levels of oil increased? And are the US/Coalition forces correctly placed strategically placed to strike Iran within the next 3 months. Answer YES! Today, we see oil at $135, with Goldman Sachs saying Oil prices possibly reaching $200, and with there track record on prediction being uncannily precise, I can see this happening soon. Yes the same oil which has increased from $30 – $135 in a matter of years.. creating inflationary pressures, etc, etc, etc. So it is relative, because energy is a factor when living in an abode on food to eat in your home, etc, etc, etc. And finally, this is an FT article.. maybe they are bonkers for highlighting the issue, maybe we should just pretend it never happened.
lvmreader says:
@Drewster
Thank you. All I want to do is look at why interest rates were dropped so low – when all the evidence of the last 80 years would point to an asset bubble being created.
@Pelethar, @Marge – you are behaving like the bullies. I haven’t told you what to do or what not to do. YOU 2 tell me what I cannot or should not write. I have just reminded you of your freedom to NOT read something. You are bullies.
flintster1994 says:
Well said drewster! It really is about time for people to accept that they may be wrong, regardless of which side of the fence that they perceive themselves to be sitting on.
Dark Horse says:
Anyone who has come to this web-site looking for genuine house-price related information is going to be scared away by this article and the ensuing conversation thread. They’ll think HPC.co.uk is full of anti-capitalist borderline communists looking for the end of western civilisation and the onset of revolution.
Which would be a shame, because I don’t believe that’s what most people here are like. The loudest ones might be…
pelethar says:
Sorry, what about telling me to f**k off and die, as you did on another thread a few days back? Does that not constitute bullying or telling people what to do?
lvmreader says:
@flinster1994,
I am wrong several times a day. I rely on debate to point me in the right direction. I don’t tell people what they can or cannot think or believe.
pelethar says:
For goodness sake. Nobody is telling you what you can think or believe, but some people have a problem with what you post on this news blog and are questioning whether there might not be a better place for you to vent your spleen on non-hpc related subjects.
lvmreader says:
Remember Roger Bootle
He had to asy he was wrong about house prices. The man was actually right.
lvmreader says:
@Pelethar, I seem to get a lot of readership, so I guess MORE people like what I write.
You are behaving like a fascist and a bully yourself.
pelethar says:
Yep you’re right. Case in point – 28 comments on this article so far, well done. Although 23 of those were either by you or by people complaining about your behaviour.
lvmreader says:
@Pelethar, I suggested that no-one has to read anything on the internet. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. Don’t go insulting other people. You and a few others went out of your way to make very nasty personal attacks. I suggested that you leave the site rather than telling everyone else what they could or could not post / read / believe.
In a Free and Open society (as this one still is), there are many ways to express oneself. You can do so by leaving this site. Or just suck it up.
I am open to debate, but if you attack me, I must defend. I am happy for you to point out to me where I am wrong and if the facts bear it out, I will say “Yes @Pelethar, I was wrong”. Thank you for pointing this out.
So let’s examine the facts. Let us stick to the facts. Don’t tell me what to do or not do.
lvmreader says:
@pelethar, you ARE deluded. Did you used to believe that “House Prices always went up”.
I have read many statements of support in many posts where you have attacked me.
Mr Realist. says:
Opportunities and their subsequent exploitation can sometimes lead to the appearance of a conspiracy. Please use your common sense.
Also, 9/11 was, and remains, an horrific act. That is not to mean that the invasion of Iraq (and loss of civilian life there) isn’t.
disillusioned says:
lvmreader – do you have your own blog? I’d like to suggest that you post these kind of articles on it instead of on a website about house prices? If you do not have a blog, perhaps you should create one for non-HPC discussions. That way, from the hits to your site, you will get direct feedback about how interested people are in your and others’ theories and who those people are. I think that piggybacking on the HPC.co.uk’s fame is a bit off. I found this article very interesting, but I’d rather have found it on another site or in the off-topic part of the HPC forum.
jonb says:
It may be in the FT – in the arts & weekend section, but I can’t really see what it has to do with house prices.
I suppose the 11/9 attack did lead to a war, which is a contributing factor to higher oil prices, which contributes towards higher inflation, which leads to higher base rates, which may lead to higher mortgage rates, which can reduce house prices, but the link is tenuous at best.
This is housepricecrash.co.uk, not ft.com.
pelethar says:
28 out of 33……
lvmreader says:
@JonB,
Money Supply and loose lending is probably 75% of the reason house prices boomed. The biggest factor in the money supply nexus is interest rates.
Any Central Banker knows that low interest rates can (and often do) lead to runaway inflation.
To think that House Prices are only to do with TV shows or “lack of availability” is naive and shows a lack of basic understanding on the topics.
This blog is here to educate and hopefully we can all learn something about how to avoid booms in future.
The question is, why did the Fed drop rates so low, knowing that this (house and other asset inflation) was a likely outcome?
Greenspan has been publicly lambasted for this. If it was part of a war strategy, well it backfired. If it was just poor calculation, we need to know how to spot such idiocy in future, so that we can prevent it taking us to the brink of disaster.
We are all in for a very painful correction.
pelethar says:
I think on that note I’ll let the matter rest – I don’t agree that I have personally attacked lvm but I have made my point repeatedly and forcefully about his irrelevant and barely-relevant postings. Though it hurts to admit it I have to concede that he does seem to get a fair bit of support, and clearly he’s not going to agree with me, so I’ll let it lie.
I will say one last time that I think this sort of thing is going to destroy this website, and I think that is a real shame.
lvmreader says:
@Pelethar,
You actually are contributing nothing. I hope you leave.
the northerner living in oz says:
lvmreader
The 911 incident may or may not be true but it is not relevant on this site
This is House price crash site.
Is there any reason that you cannot create your own web site?
pelethar says:
Gracious to the last.
James says:
pelethar – for your count, another vote in opposition to bobbins like this being on here. Albeit that it is a good article.
japanese uncle says:
One thing is certain. If we stop questioning the questionable, succumed to the overwhelming propaganda, disaster will strike. On this basis, issues of the 911 and the housing bubbles are of the same kind. We must have made a fuss when the FRB stopped to publish M3 data as ‘being irrelevant’, as housing bubble was in the making then.
housebear says:
Blimey guv, its all going off in ear! init.
I think the news blog is the first thing any new visitor reads when finding this site, hence, everthing in the news blog IMVHO should be totally about houses.
The news blog IS the first impression of the sites content.
They say you get one chance to make a first impression, do they not?
japanese uncle says:
house bear
I agree. I think that seems to be the bottomline.
flintster1994 says:
Ivmreader,
You may have misunderstood me. I agree that a lot of this stuff is interlinked and believe that debating these issues is the only way to get to the truth. I don’t understand where certain individuals get off on telling others what they should and shouldnt post on this site. Once that starts, where does it end?
Sharpe says:
In Russia Putin blew up sky scrappers and blamed it on the Chechens, to fight a war to win an election; then killed every journalist investigating it.
It is at least sensible to investigate the possibility of this also happening in the US – however unlikely. (can they not just check the dust of explosives to close off the idea it was blown up?)
what it does show is that people are becoming more a more distanced from their leaders, and more and more convinced by Orwells vision of a leadership at war with its own population – which is a good thing
flintster1994 says:
Why the big concern about what new visitors may or may not want to sea. What the hell has that got to do with anything. Are you tryng to start some sort of revolution? Or is this all about ego? Jeez!
flintster1994 says:
Sorry see. Let people make up their own minds! Stop trying to second guess them!
flintster1994 says:
If they don’t like what they see, then so what. Seriously, what is it you are trying to prove?
debtfree says:
ivmreader,
As this was meant to be a debate, do you not think it would have been better to post in the forum ?
regards
debtfree
pelethar says:
I think the dust has just about settled now. Not really scientific, but just out of interest I totted up the entries up to this point.
Five people posted in support of this article being in the news blog (lvmreader included).
Thirteen people posted protesting comments saying they thought it shouuld not be there (myself included)
& A further four didn’t express an opinion either way but joined the debate about the article, suggesting they found the news item of interest.
All this supports the comment someone put up a few days back saying that the site is at a crossroads and two groups are loosely forming with very different ideas about what it should be for. Perhaps all this will end with one of the two groups spinning off and settling in a new website.
flintster1994 says:
pelethar,
That would be such a shame. I think the variety of people that frequent HPC is what makes this site so interesting.
Facts become clearer more quickly with lively repectful debate.
Oridley says:
This article has a tenuous connection at best to the housing market. If there’s an appetite amongst the readership of this site for this kind of thing, it should be maintained in a separate blog.
quiet guy says:
@pelethar
“I think on that note I’ll let the matter rest”
Best idea. I’m not conspiracy theories and I wonder what a newcomer would make of comments such as on this topic. In my opionion, lvmreader seem to enjoying these arguments which is why I don’t join in.
Whatever you say, the conspiracy theorists are not going to listen so why bother?
pelethar says:
Agree flintster and (without wanting to re-start this debate) that speaks to the heart of why I feel strongly about these news articles.
Part of what makes (made?) this site so attractive was the news blog – there was always a good, intelligent selection of relevant news articles on there. This helped make the site more attractive to vibrant, intelligent posters, and obviously that creates a virtuous circle as those people post up their own articles and contribute to the debate.
I think if the site becomes flooded with articles about 9/11 or even economic articles with only a tenuous hpc link, then the opposite will start to happen. You’ll get more people attracted to the site who want to talk about these subjects, inevitably making the site less interesting to those people who made it such a great site in the first place. That leads to a vicious circle. And once that passes a tipping point, there’s no stopping it. I don’t think we’re there yet but I think it’s coming.
pelethar says:
quiet guy, you’re right. I really really will leave it there this time (really). Final answer.
nopensionnohouse says:
@pelethar “Thirteen people posted protesting comments saying they thought it shouuld not be there (myself included)”
Make that 14 people. I had a go at ridding HPC of conspiracy theorists / conscious enlightenment tripe a few months back. Asked for a vote, won the vote but got flamed by the conspiracists anyway.
HPC – the clue is in the title. This is not conspiracy.com!
That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.
That said I thought this was an interesting article. Especially towards the end when he talks about people believing in a good conspiracy story or 2 towards the end of an unpopular administration.
Human nature is a funny thing.
Stevie Dee says:
@ pelethar.. lol… i’m looking through these entries too.. you should ask for a job at HPC, as content manager… that is the wonderful thing about this site, someone puts an article on, and all hell breaks loose. Well, it is healthy to debate, even if the link is tenuous,and well done for everyone contributing. Now get back to f*cking work you lazy sh1ts…lol
housebear says:
When I first found HPC over 3 or 4 years ago, I was looking for a site that focused exclusively on the state of the housing market.
At that time there were certainly a lot more property bulls.
Metaphorically speaking the bulls got a lot of stick from the bears on this site.
I think what we are missing to some degree, is an opposite opinion, regarding the state and future of the housing market.
A lot of the bulls I’m sure, are now in reluctant agreement with the fact that the housing market at long last is heading south, FAST.
The main topic of conversation on this site over a couple of years ago was either you believed there would be a crash or prices would climb for ever.
Maybe now that we have been proved right thus far, some posters are just simply missing some body to have a disagreement with.
Comments please?
Davip says:
Applying posting sanctions to remove the likes of lvm and in-bred from this site would do a great deal to enhance its credibility. Cretins like these two do much to discredit this site…
Stevie Dee says:
“some posters are just simply missing some body to have a disagreement with”
@Housebear.. to be fair.. you may be right.. but these tenuous links are the minority.. and maybe add a different perspective.. Macro, as well as Micro..
A question for you Housebear.. obviously you came to HPC because you had a hunch that house prices would eventually fall. But are you surprised by the fashion in which we are seeing the change (South).
Comments please?
Housebear says:
As I have a VI in a housing crash, the clue being in my forum name of course.
I think we should focus on maintaning good quality articals and get the message to the masses.
There are still a lot of floating voters out there so to speak.
Lots of people I know still think its a 50/50 weather to buy now or not.
Keep the blog all about houses.
wiltshire says:
I don’t think the newsblog is the place for these articles/discussions. As someone just suggested the forum is really the best place for these discussions as it is arguable whether they relate directly to house prices in the first place.
Additionally, how can we be sure these articles aren’t being planted by HPI VI’s who wish to divide us by causing arguments and who are trying to discredit the site by allowing it to appear that is it just another crank/conspiracy site???
Cybervigilantes says:
housebear: Maybe now that we have been proved right thus far, some posters are just simply missing some body to have a disagreement with.
Comments please?
I think people are now interested in WHY this has happened, so are looking for the bigger picture.
While those in power are still hell bent on warmongering and spending tax-payers money on wars based on lies killing innocents then the economy will continue to slide into the abyss.
On the topic in question I very much enjoyed this satirical take on an old dance floor classic: http://tinyurl.com/5www4b
and for those still in doubt, the author David Ray Griffin has carried out exhaustive research that question the official conspiracy: http://tinyurl.com/6nuk23
Wiltshire says:
Ah-ha! No response for 17 minutes. I rest my case m’lord………………….
gardeniadotnet says:
#62 said…..HPC – the clue is in the title. This is not conspiracy.com!
That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.
That said I thought this was an interesting article……
LOL. Keep posting the thought-provoking articles. The HPC webmasters are quite capable of censoring what is posted if they want to.
G.
flintster1994 says:
Wiltshire,
Do you really think that any VI bulls believe that they can reverse the current HPC by discrediting this site? Wow! Some people really do consider themselves to be uber important!
Put your theory into reverse. Those trying to prevent open debate on world/economic/political issues and using the fantastic term”conspiricy theorist,” are really the VI that are trying to prevent certain truths from being uncovered; or worse believe everything the mainstream media and governments tell them, end of!
The reason that I label “conspiricy theorist” as a fantastic term, is because I believe it to be a clever piece of spin created by those in the know. In the beginning, this term was associated with aliens etc. Thus the phrase was associated with nutters etc. Therefore to associate the phrase with anything that those in the know didn’t want the public to question would immediately stop any poking around, as the majority of sheeple wouldn’t want to be labelled a “conspiricy theorist,” that is to say a mad man! So clever!
Consciousness is all about the ability to be open to the unexpected and not just the usuall Pavlovian responses. Change IS upon us whether you like it or not! Creation will not be open to debate!
wiltshire says:
flinster1994, I had my tongue in my cheek when I wrote that (I don’t take much seriously I’m afraid). However, assuming there is a powerful elite about to enslave the world’s population I would imagine they try to operate and influence on all levels. So while they’re cleverly keeping us fighting amongst ourselves over whether they engineered the housing price bubble they’re sneaking back-engineered alien mind control drugs into Cornflakes (allegedly).
Put your theory into reverse. Those trying to open debate on world/economic/political issues are actually VIs trying to bore the pants off the population and send them all to sleezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Look, this site is about house prices and I think the whole powerful world elite is stretching the issue a little thinly. If it’s true then it’s likely to affect all aspects of our lives and maybe those who care should be visiting forums on http://www.manutd.com, http://www.farmersweekly.com, http://www.croissantlovers.net, http://www.ikea.com (amongst several million others) to let them know what’s occuring. See if they care.
Malct says:
How each of us perceives what is or is not on topic for a HPC website surely is dependent upon where we’ve been and how we got here. There is bound to be disagreement.
Some of us may be relatively comfortable, not inclined to rock the boat and able to put any issues down to human greed, chaos theory and poor management.
Others, like myself may have had bad life/business experiences which may have caused them to ask difficult questions about the society we and our forefathers and foremothers collectively have allowed to be created around us.
We are all so busy it is difficult finding the time to look deeper into things unless we are forced to do so by pain of one sort or another.
So, you know where I’ve been, How did I get here? Well as it happens by the end of 2003 my unfettered questioning of the world around me led me to the conviction that much of what is unpleasant and unsustainable in the world has a common power base tool, and that is the fraudulent, unethical debt based money system that was grown in Venice, Amsterdam, London, New York and spread from there throughout the world. What exactly is behind that is another matter.
This view of mine has coloured what I see as relevant to house prices and obviously money supply (same thing) in the UK.
Anyone who has not done this tedious unpaid research will have a totally different viewpoint. That’s only to be expected. Sadly much of what ivmreader has had thrown at him today has not been constructive debate at all, but simply abuse. I think those who resort to blunt abuse are the real threat to this excellent website, which incidentally may want to survive a future housepricerise!
Sadly because of the way the site works, no-one knows who people really are so it is difficult to know wether you are dealing with a reluctant mind or a paid advocate.
Observers of the site need to ask why objectors to views like this post seem determined to drive up the comments 73 and viewings 1437 as I write – way above other posts. Surely they would do better to ignore such posts and put their energies into more ‘on topic’ articles or even post some themselves.
What is everyone so frightened of?
kindness
Malct
PS this post is being made at 15.37 but may not appear for a while or at all as my password was disabled shortly after I mentioned the EU treaty, must have been something someone said.
Dark Horse says:
@housebear
“Maybe now that we have been proved right thus far, some posters are just simply missing some body to have a disagreement with.”
Yep, spot on. I’ve posted something in the forum earlier today saying pretty much the same thing. Now that we’ve been proven right (after years of looking stupid) there is a lack of direction as to where we go now. There’s no point going out to the country shouting about a HPC when the country is just going to turn around and say “Yes, thanks very much. We know and we know you told us so. Now shove off so I can declare myself bankrupt.” 🙂
Here’s a thought which I think I’ll post in the forum: once a HPC has clearly and unarguably happened (i.e.: once they drop by 20% – the usual definition of a crash), shouldn’t this site just shut down?
Malct says:
The mind of David Ray Griffin is refreshingly clear and logical. With his exceptional gift for discerning significant distinctions he has, once again, produced a meticulous critical analysis of documentary evidence that is astute and compelling. In “9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press,”
Dr. Griffin presents a sequence of irrefutable facts drawn from documents and testimony that demonstrate twenty five internal contradictions in the official 9/11 story. As each contradiction is presented, the author juxtaposes documented timelines and official memos, eye-witness testimony, television broadcasts and news articles that are logically inconsistent with the narrative contrived by the 9/11 Commission.
Griffin objectively questions these contradictory narratives, some of them inherent within individual alibis, and observes that the Commission avoided confronting these inconsistencies by eliminating all mention of them in its report. Facts that could not be logically refuted were strategically omitted, thereby erasing from the historical record all evidence of possible perjury and complicity. Each chapter is devoted to one category of contradictions and ends with the request that Congress and the press investigate this inconsistency.
http://www.sott.net/
Dark Horse says:
@Malct
Your post of 15:37 is one of the more thoughtful, well constructed and intelligently written of the day – something which has been sadly lacking in much of the above.
I disagree 100% with what you say – as I don’t believe HPC is the place for this sort of topic – but I respect entirely why you say it.
wiltshire says:
The thing for me is that I simply do not think the NWO stuff is appropriate for this area of this site and certainly not in the quantities that appear (and which largely seem to go over and over the same points).
I think I will take Malct’s advice and simply ignore these posts in future.
nopensionnohouse says:
@Malct, well what ever your opinion at least the majority here actually type stuff out and say what we feel.
It is interesting to note: One of the mannerisms that separates us non conspiracists from the NWO / enlightenment types is that they use cut & paste far too much.
Often pasting the same paragraphs and passages time and time again often for days at a time!!!!
What’s with that?
Malct says:
@ 79. nopensionnohouse
What’s with that? – no point reinventing the wheel – if the work has already been done best to quote it rather than misrepresent it.
My post at 75 is completely me whereas my post at 77 is a quote I can’t improve on and relates to a quality of work I could never aspire to.
Password still more disfunctional than I am, this post may be too late to be of value.
icarus says:
The length of this blog just goes to prove that a lot of people didn’t do a lot of work today.
sold out says:
Ivmreader,
Another great post.You have contributed to HPC.co.uk over the years with some great posts and continue to do so.
Why some bloggers continue to bring nothing to the debate,other than dictating what should or should not be posted,is perverse.I can only conclude that the demise of the property bull,has led to certain bloggers,who are very argumentative and negative to vent their anger at you and others.
I dont buy into this silly ” what will newcomers think of this site” rubbish either.If they are narrow-minded enough to stop viewing a website because of a few posts about NWO and 911 then who cares?Will people stop reading the FT? I dont think so.
flintster1994 says:
Exactly sold out,
I dont get this, “what will new bloggers think?” argument. It’s unbelievale for a bunch of adults to presume that new bloggers need their first impression of this blog to be filtered, otherwise their judgement will be irreparably damaged! We are not that special! Give consenting adults, who are seeking mature debate about HPC some credit.
nopensionnohouse says:
Yeah, well done Ivmreader!
@soldout “Will people stop reading the FT? I don’t think so.”
No people wont stop reading the FT, because (as some one else on this thread said) if you read the article to the end the conspiracists don’t come out at all well. In fact they all sound a bit unhinged.
Hey, before you start I didn’t post it! I thought it was interesting.
flintster1994 says:
Thats a great way of thinking! I should have thought about it earlier! The FT says that it isnt so. Well, that’s the end of that and any future discussions then!
unplugged says:
@ 75. Malct
Well said Malct.
Good post Ivmreader.
new user 2007 says:
Best thing to do would be to just ignore commenting on the story put here?
Attention seeking and undermining the site is all the objective seems to be, of people who post such things.
new user 2007 says:
For those who think what is relevant to post here is open to interpretation…
…how about we stick to stories that relate to what is actually happening in the housing market (housing statistics), or can have an impact on the housing market that is twice removed (on say what is happening i.e. credit markets), or even thrice removed (evidence relating to other housing markets).
Stories/ subjects that are 20 times removed from housing, like this one, in no way can be considered relevant.