Sunday, June 1, 2008

Graceful exit?

Bradford & Bingley chief resigns

Bradford & Bingley has announced that its boss has quit the firm "due to a serious cardiovascular condition". Chief executive Stephen Crawshaw is leaving with immediate effect and chairman Rod Kent will replace Mr Crawshaw in the short-term.

Posted by crutchley @ 12:49 PM (2113 views)
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69 thoughts on “Graceful exit?

  • little professor says:

    Bradford & Bingley has announced that its boss has quit the firm “due to a serious cardiovascular condition”.

    Like I said, he had a heart attack when he saw the latest financial figures.

    Their rights issue is undersubscribed and doomed, and a profits warning is due tomorrow morning.

    Expect a govt bailout soon – all hush-hush this time, though, we don’t want another Northern Crock bank run.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The government, ahem, Bank of England bail out will already have occured. Lets not beat around the bush, the Bank of England is a private institution now, run by and on the behalf of private financiers. The Northern Rock debacle was used to rush through powers to let the bank print money for their members with no need for commons debate. Our liberty to maintain the value of our currency was taken in one fell swoop. The only way now to see whether or not a bail out occured, is to watch the money supply. Or maybe there is a way of looking at off balance sheet government debt?

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  • Expect a govt bailout soon – all hush-hush this time, though, we don’t want another Northern Crock bank run.

    They do seem to be in quite a bit of trouble at the moment, but it’s the wreckless lending, especially to BTL’ers, that have done it for them.

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  • p4ac: The BoE is most definitely not a private institution! I refer you to this page: http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/parliament/index.htm

    The Bank’s relationship with Parliament

    As a public organisation, wholly-owned by Government, and with a significant public policy role, the Bank is accountable to Parliament.
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  • I expect to see a takeover bid emerge – LTSB would be favourites (IMO)

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  • If B&B goes pop this week, expect renewed pressure on the £ – things are looking bad. Although the BoE may want a bank’s problems to be ‘solved’ behind closed doors, the share price will usually give the game away. Looks like that’s what’s happening with B&B. Long live the free market; free, that is, from government intervention.

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  • drewster – a post by malct a couple of weeks ago offered other evidence to the effect that the BoE is privately owned. “The Bank is accountable to Parliament” like the Fed is accountable to the Senate, but the Senate doesn’t do much more than rubber-stamp what the Fed decides.

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  • icarus, what about the line that says “wholly-owned by Government”? There’s a clue in there somewhere! I don’t buy most of the conspiracy theories. Mervyn King has a tough balancing act to perform, with all sides baying for his blood. It was the government who decided to nationalise Northern Rock, not the BoE.

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  • drewster – malct must be eating Sunday lunch, otherwise he’d be re-posting.

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  • icarus said… drewster – malct must be eating Sunday lunch, otherwise he’d be re-posting.

    Or frantically digging up his BB share certificates 🙂

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  • @6. harold – B&B wont be going pop this week – following the NR debacle moves can be made covertly and support (private/public) will be put in place to avoid at all costs a fiasco similar to NR.

    I posted an article last week from fundstrategy – which documented the effective death of the free market (it wasn’t viwed by many and received no resonse) – see http://www.fundstrategy.co.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=165683&d=pnd&h=pndh&f=pndf

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  • icarus – I just googled “bank of england conspiracy” – It’s depressing how much disinformation there is out there. For a full roundup of both the BoE and the Fed, have a look at this question that some twit posted on Yahoo Answers: Who owns The Federal Reserve and The Bank of England?

    I don’t know why people choose to believe these nonsense conspiracy theories.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    If the BOE is so accountable to Parliament, how could they have authority to bail out banks by printing OUR currency, to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds, without parliamentary debate or disclosure. All debates in Parliament are televised, so the discussions go behind closed doors. It doesn’t matter who owns the bank if people can secretly print money and debase OUR currency, without accountability. Think about it.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Therefore, the debate about bank ownership is a sideline issue. The issue is about control and accountability. They who have control over printing money, have absolute control over our society, period.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Guys, don’t be fooled and sidelined by unimportant nit picking. The truth is, that there is a conspiracy out there. How much of your wealth must they steal via inflation, how much of your liberty must they take away via acts like those that take away the right to protest (free speach), to privacy (ID cards), how much of you money will you have stolen to fight unjust wars and kill innocents, how many white flag terrorist attacks will you see in your cities, how much of your pensions will you have stolen, how much of your media will you have controlled, how much democracy will you have taken to vast regional non-demcratic institutions, before you stop nit-picking and poo poo-ing valid questioning of the power elite? – The fact that some of us look at a couple of potentially hair brained things amongst other strong issues a whole with an open mind, does not mean that what we discuss is wrong. It is infact us exercising our abilities to scrutinise the various info sources around us. The process of that discourse is impressive when individuals come on and sort the wheat from the chaff. What is negative, and falls into the hands of the media that lie to us, and we know that they do, because we exposed it all the way through the housing boom, what falls into their hands, is to try to blacken everything that an individual says, because they are willing to listen to and analyse a source that the mainstream consider to be kooky. Well, I tell you what, we were considered kooky predicting a housepricecrash until Autumn this yr. Don’t fall into that mindless trap that the media set you up to carry out. Lecture over.

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  • Ok let’s assume for a moment that it’s all one great big conspiracy theory. So the BoE prints lots of money to bail out its big chums at Bradford & Bingley. Now let’s see, who owns the B&B? Is it “old money”, a cabal of slightly Jewish names like Rothschild or Goldman Sachs and other big names in banking? No, the B&B was demutualised in 2000 and its shares were distributed to the members (i.e. the account-holders) at the time. If it fails, it’s the small shareholders and small customers with savings accounts who lose out. Since when is saving the little guy a conspiracy theory?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Drewster, print money for JP Morgan to buy out the little fry like B&B and you have a theft of a business. This is how it happens!!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    How many small banks were bought by the big banks during the great depression? A redicuous amount! How many farms did they take over via foreclosure. These things are not straight forward, its a sleight of hand, like a magic trick when you say, oh, which cup is the marble in.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oh, Drewster, and notice that, the bailout will only occur once the manipulated mainstream media down the share price via press releases. Its very easy to do if you control the media and the money printing. Extremely easy, so easy that it seems ridiculous. So much so that it is unbelievable, until you get into the way of thinking that the elite work on.

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  • p4ac:
    1) Inflation is bad, yes it is stealing our wealth, and yes it should stop. Is it a conspiracy? No, it’s just politics.
    2) Taking away the right to protest is pretty bad, I’m very much against that and most people should be. Not relevant to this forum, unfortunately.
    3) ID cards are pretty stupid too, fortunately the Tory party is against it and they look like they’ll win the next election. Not relevant to this forum though.
    4) Unjust wars etc. – Yes, pretty bad stuff too. Yes, we were lied to. Not relevant to this forum though.
    5) White flag terrorist attacks – that’s a conspiracy theory
    6) Pensions stolen – that’s no conspiracy, that’s Gordon Brown’s deliberate tax. Slightly relevant to this forum because people think their house will be their pension.
    7) Media control – not sure where to start on that one
    8) Vast regional non-democratic institutions – This government has seen the proliferation of quangos and other unelected bodies. That’s bad. Not relevant to this forum though.

    In general it’s important for citizens to keep a close eye on the actions of their elected leaders. But spreading disinformation doesn’t help any of us! Everyone, please check your facts before you post on here or anywhere on the internet.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    To understand the concept of what appears kooky and what does not, look at an art student. They look kooky, with their second hand clothes. Why? Have you wondered why? It is because they, by not purchasing from corporate clothes stores, are not wearing the styles chosen for us by big business. Yet, most of these second hand clothes, were at one time mainstream and you wouldn’t have stood out.

    So, we are so conditioned by the corporate way of life, that, any expression that diverges from the corporate view, appears kooky, either the style, the tone, the way of presentation, the approach, notwithstanding the content. This is brainwashing. Its so all pervasive, that it affects us all. Just beware of gut reaction from a piece of information or a debate. Any emotion that by-passes your normal analytical powers, is the result of Pavlovian conditioning. Avoid it, re-wire yourselves. OPEN YOUR MINDS.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    1) Inflation is bad, yes it is stealing our wealth, and yes it should stop. Is it a conspiracy? No, it’s just politics.
    – OF COURSE IT IS A CONSPIRACY, CERTAIN GROUPS, I.E. GOVERNMENT AND FINANCIERS BENEFIT FROM INFLATION, BECAUSE THEY GET TO SPEND THE PRINTED MONEY BEFORE IT INFLATES PRICES, AND THEY GET TO PUMP UP WHATEVER BOOM THEY WANT VIA THEIR MEDIA MANIPULATION. THIS IS RELEVANT.

    2) Taking away the right to protest is pretty bad, I’m very much against that and most people should be. Not relevant to this forum, unfortunately.
    – YOU CANNOT PROTEST OUTSIDE PARLIAMENT AGAINST THE BAILOUT OF A BANK, THE MONETARISATION OF HOUSING DEBT UNTIL A WEEK AFTER ITS HAPPENED, E.G. UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? DO YOU RECOGNISE HOW MUCH POWER THAT GIVES THEM?

    4) Unjust wars etc. – Yes, pretty bad stuff too. Yes, we were lied to. Not relevant to this forum though.
    – OUR TAXES AND CURRENCY DEBASEMENT, WHICH ARE INTIMATELY TIED WITH HOUSING AND EVERYTHING ELSE AFFORDABILITY. IRAQ IS BANKRUPTING US. OUR DEBT IS MORE THAN OUR GDP AS A RESULT, THIS IS RELEVANT.

    5) White flag terrorist attacks – that’s a conspiracy theory
    – THE GOVERNMENT STORY IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY. THE CIA DO NOT INDITE BIN LADEN FOR 9/11 ON THEIR WANTED POSTERS, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT CLAIM, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.

    ..

    7) Media control – not sure where to start on that one
    – MAYBE START BY RECOGNISING YOURSELF, WITHOUT ANY DOUBLETHING, THAT THEY LIED TO US ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE HOUSING BOOM. IF THEY CAN LIE TO THIS EXTENT ABOUT THIS, WHY ON EARTH DO YOU BELIEVE MURDOCH’S, ET AL.S NETWORK ON ANYTHING ELSE?!?!?!?!?!?! WAKE UP!!!!!

    8) Vast regional non-democratic institutions – This government has seen the proliferation of quangos and other unelected bodies. That’s bad. Not relevant to this forum though.
    – THESE QUANGOS INCLUDE THE BANKS THAT ARE PUMPING UP OUR ASSET BOOMS AND INFLATION, THAT REGULATE CORPORATIONS, OR NOT, AS THE CASE MAY BE, LOOK AT THE FSA, WHICH TOTALLY FAILS, WHEN ITS CORPORATE MASTERS NEEDS ARE AFFECTED.

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  • I quit.

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  • Drewster @ 20

    100% agree

    P4C,

    You are getting certifiable with your ludicrous conspiracy theories – when will you wake up to the fact that this country is run by people who are not smart enough to invent covert conspiracies? (or if they are, can make more than enough dosh without any need for them)

    Getting back to the thread, the only thing we’re probably not being told about is a discreet attempt to find another bank to make a bid for B & B, as the government, and their servants, the BOE, will not want another NR if they can avoid it. However, even as a giveaway, I’m not sure if any of the big names would want it.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Uncle Tom, they are smart enough to be able to print hundreds of billions to buy out banks and smart enough to lie to you to go to war, you know this, why the doublethink? I advise you read 1984 by George Orwell again, if you have not already.

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  • fact is though that we bank rolled and invented bin laden in 1980 against the russians and put saddam hussein into power in 1979

    Bush senior is also best friends with bin laden family which apparently run saudi

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  • planning4acrash says:

    More to the point, they are smart enough to create a long Labour reign via a house price boom where they took many of our liberties.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Your Government (USA) funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda, I’ll say it again, your government funded and founded Al Qaeda,

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  • planning4acrash says:

    I’ll keep saying it, and no bigot is going to shut me or anybody else up from telling the truth or linking apparently smaller issues with the bigger picture. Until you realise that the housepriceboom and crash are part of the same issue of command and control from a small group of evil financiers, then there is no hope for you.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    They took away your home with a houseprice boom. Isn’t that enough to make you mad? My parents bought their first house on 2.5x salary as first time buyers. They bought an entire 2bed house. An entire house. They have stolen our way of life by inflating and preying on the greed of and handful of Buy to let people so that we, the public, are dependent on them, the government for shared equity, for social housing and on highly leveraged buy to let landlords who pay more in interest for stinking fiat money than they do in tax or receive for themselves in revenue, as part of a lie, a get rich quick ponzi scheme, where banks will repossess vast swathes of UK housing that was once owned by the great British public. Does that not make you MAD?!

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  • “they are smart enough to be able to print hundreds of billions to buy out banks ”

    Not true – they have had to borrow heavily to sort out the NR fiasco, but not 100’s of millions – check the numbers – and most of it will come home. Ultimately, the taxpayer will take a hit, but with luck it will be for less than £10bn.

    “and smart enough to lie to you to go to war”

    And dumb enough to think we’d believe the lie, I didn’t, nor did most people.

    “I advise you read 1984 by George Orwell again, if you have not already.”

    I probably read that before you were born. Yes, the present govt has an unhealthy obsession with surveillance, but there’s little secrecy about it.

    What you need to understand is that grand conspiracies are beloved of fiction writers, but in real life they just don’t happen.

    Why? Because people can’t keep their gobs shut, and the more that know, the more that will talk – and journalists love exposing secrets.

    But the biggest secrets they expose usually centre around the bedroom – real life is pretty boring really!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Uncle Tom, they are able to fund the interest charges on the money printed, because they used the media to destroy the Northern Rock share price, whilst they shifted the best assets away from the nationalised section within a separate private company. This is how the theft occurred during the great depression. Unfortunately, they rely on the fact that few live to remember that evil time.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The journalists love exposing secrets? Only when their editor is told to bring somebody down!! You fool!! The fact that George W Bush worships an Owl at Bohemian Grove, watching a mock human sacrifice, is not exposed in the media. The fact that the owners of our major papers meet all the top leaders in Bildeburg meetings, in top secret, deciding world policy is not reported in their papers, WAKE UP!!

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  • p4ac,

    keep posting,there are many on here who still have open minds.Not everything can be simply dismissed as “conspiracy theory”.Do these topics have any relevence to HPC? In my view yes,so keep posting.

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  • P4ac

    You’ve lost the plot mate. Have you been on the pop this afternoon, or have you fallen for the drip feed of conspiracy rubbish continually spouted on this site by the likes of s2r1 and Malct.

    Chill out and get a life. Take a break from blogging websites. I know reality is a bit boring, but you’ll stop torturing yourself when you accept it.

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  • “The journalists love exposing secrets? Only when their editor is told to bring somebody down!! You fool!! The fact that George W Bush worships an Owl at Bohemian Grove, watching a mock human sacrifice, is not exposed in the media. The fact that the owners of our major papers meet all the top leaders in Bildeburg meetings, in top secret, deciding world policy is not reported in their papers, WAKE UP!!”

    This is all utter rubbish that you’ve probably gleaned from some lunatic conspiracy site where gullible idiots like you fill your brains with total nonsense.

    Have you properly checked even one of these ‘facts?’ Of course not. Try learning how to differentiate between fact and claptrap, because until you do everyone is going to think you’re a complete nutter. OK?

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  • holding out says:

    P4AC – How much time on you hands do you have? Oh yeah loads you work for the state. You seem to think that everybody has a closed mind and you are one of the few who have “seen the light”.
    No. You are incapable of differentiating reasoned argument from drivel. You were pointed to a few poorly made, factually incorrect YouTube videos and that’s good enough for you. You had claimed you were going off for a month to practice an instrument, that seemed to last about 2 days, for god’s sake (and yours and everybody elses) go and do it.

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  • it_is_going_with_a_bang says:

    Posting on here should be something directly related to HPC and nothing else.
    Inflated House prices is about people with a human instinct to be greedy f***ers and wanting a bit of power – thats about it.
    Whether its a banker, journalist, government minister, estate agent, financail advisor etc or whatever.
    Theres no conspiracy, just plain lies and greed which is business as usual in the human race unfortunately.

    Stay on topic … please…..

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  • What happened to the website I used to visit, where intelligent people with a range of opinions debated relevant news items and swapped theories on the house price bubble? How did we end up turning into yet another blog site for halfwits to swap conspiracy stories?

    I think the most pertinent question we’re left with is: which site will we have to decamp to once we admit p4ac et al have succeeded in wrecking this one, and decide to leave them to i?

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  • (oops – leave them to it I mean)

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  • ”Theres no conspiracy, just plain lies and greed which is business as usual in the human race unfortunately”.

    Sums it up nicely.

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  • theboltonfury says:

    p4ac – you are a moron. There I said it. You are. You dominate this site with your demented rhetoric and then belittle people for having an oposing view claiming that you have seen the burning bush and we are all just Orwellion minnions. You’ve read 1984, well done, so have half the country. Why don’t you, that other berk Malct and all the rest of you half wits who indulge in noshing each other off with this conspiratorial rot remove yourselves from your darkened cellars, unwire your craniums from YouTube and let us use this site for what it was intended for.

    and no I am not a bigot. Just utterly fed up with you, you self indulgent, patronising moron

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  • doom&gloom says:

    Personally not upset by the conspiracy-theorist ranters. HPC is here and well now, so the HPC ‘if’ and ‘when’ discussions are few and far between now. And every post hijacked by the ranters gets > 50 posts, so at least it’s giving everyone a good argument. Personally if I need a break from it I head over to the forum where there are a whole different bunch of people (and a few familiar ones) with a different agenda.

    Would just be interested to know from p4c, malct, and s2r1 specifically how you got on with your education. Nothing personal, but I’d like to know whether you got history/media/geography/science GCSEs, and whether you took A-levels and/or a degree. I wonder whether there’s a collective skill gap in ability to critically evaluate information and information sources.

    One thing I’ve learned first-hand from the views expressed here is how the internet (especially youtube) is changing the the world. Anyone can publish anything to be watched by an audience of potentially billions of people.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Guys, you are all exercising what Orwell called doublethink. You say in one breath that the media and your government lied and continue to lie about the houseprice boom and crash, yet say in another that the media and your government are saying the truth about 9/11, 7/11, etc. and that there is justification for them taking our liberties, yet in another breath, you will say that you are against the immoral Iraq and Afghan war and are against bombing Iran, because our government and media lied about the evidence that led us to the first two and will lead us to the latter. Just search your conscience for a moment, take a step back, and think about what you’ve all just said.

    And no, I don’t work for this site! No way is it in their interest that I take the debate beyond housprices to the power structure that caused it, I am about saying that this is not just a housepricecrash. But my analysis of it led me in that direction. You are free to have your own, but do have a think about the doublethink thoughts that I described above. Look on Wikipedea for the definition of double think if you wish.

    Doom and Gloom, I have a BSc (Hons) Business Studies, a MSc in Spatial Planning and a PGDip in Historic Conservation, and I am only 28yrs old. You can check the archives, I’ve said this before, some time back.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    For the record, Loose Change is the most downloaded film in internet history, and Taking Liberties is excellent and very well researched. I recommend that you watch them and then see how you think.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    I visit and blog here, because it is the only site I know of where free people can read and debate the truths, half truths, untruths told and untold in the media about our British economy.

    I can read the articles on my own in a cafe, but I know now that half of what they say reinforces a particular agenda, we all know this from our study of the housepricecrash. It was a conspiracy to steal from the middle class of this country and the general tax payer, we know this to be the case. And I recal most of you who poo poo me recognising a longer pattern, that the housepricecrash was proceeded by the .com boom and that it is being followed by a commodities boom. This is a continuation of an endless war against the free middle class of the developed world that is growing in intensity whilst you good, but apathetic people sit around and let happen, well I won’t, I’ve had enough. This is the conspiracy, and its part of a wider agenda. The nature of economics is, that we cannot seperate Iraq and the war on terror from domestic politics, because the deficit, the debt, the plunging of sterling, the raising of interest rates and crashing of houseprices is all part of the same economy. You can’t seperate these things and truly understand the economy. It is not a Cartesian or Descartes divide, where one can isolate the parts to understand them, it is a dynamic system, where all parts interact to form a dynamic whole that has taken on a life of its own.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    If any of you doubt me on any of these things, debate me on the issues, pose specific questions about the particular issue and conspiracy, nothing I write about is not backed up by evidence that I cannot present and debate. I always reject information that is not falsifiable, or, if I don’t understand it, I ask questions without making my mind up prior to seeing whether there is any evidence, hence, that car and water thing, I said reasons why it may be covered up, and asked whether anybody had used it. I have not made my mind up about it because I haven’t seen any evidence. I will not make a conditioned Pavlovian response to statements put before me. I will think about them and ask questions. Does this make me a madman? Since when did this country become the land of the people who don’t ask questions, who reject scholarship, who believe in an all powerful government, media and corporate elite, without question. Is that what our hours watching television were about? To numb our minds? Possibly, probably. You know that your mind is less active when you are watching telly than it is when you are asleep? How many hours of it do you watch a day? How much of your info do you get from it?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Bolton Fury, stop insulting me and tell me which part you disagree with. Your insults mean nothing, they are not backed up with any question about anything and merely amount to trying to tarnish my reputation, I could call you names, but it wouldn’t mean anything. It would just mean that you annoyed me. It wouldn’t say anything about whether you were right or wrong, just tell you how I feel right now. Give me some substance, where is the info you read that proves me wrong, where’s the beef.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    The black swan is approaching
    6 July 2008 – a big day for world consciousness

    P4AC is just trying to help you guys protect your wealth before the final phase in this wealth transfer process.
    From West to East. From masses to elite. Prepare to be much poorer.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Ah, S2R, with the risk of causing more dissent, I wanted to ask you the question I asked before, note people, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with S2R, just asking him questions with an open mind, what is the correlation between WWII rationing in the last Mayan calender cycle and this, keeping in mind plans for carbon credits being used for rationing everything we use and do.

    BTW, the 6th July thing, that was the equivalent date of the nuclear attack on Japan. Here’s a falsifiable, not prediction, but test for your hypothesis S2R, most now agree that any attack on Iran will be in the form of a nuclear attack, and Dick Cheney has published papers saying that we need a new Pearl Harbour type attack to justify that. So, Q2. Where is Pearl Harbour on your model, is it between now and July 6th? If so, and this something I’ll watch out for, without committing myself cognitively either way, could we predict the next white flag event and the strike on Iran? Over to you S2R.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    You see people, instead of insulting S2R, I ask him probing questions that go to the heart of his theory, I challenge him, throw down the gauntlet, take his arguments to their logical conclusion to see whether they hold up or fall down. I DO NOT INSULT PEOPLE. Yet you others think you gain kudos from it. BTW S2R, I’ve almost finished reading Calleman. Some strange stuff, but alot of very interesting bits.

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  • doom&gloom says:

    @s2r1 – Why West to East? Are the global elite based in the East? I agree that the power and wealth of China will grow, but primarily because they are a motivated workforce (not popluated with idle spongers like the UK) and have a strong manufacturing base.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    You would have to read Calleman to understand what he means by west and east. The line runs along Rome in his model. So, what he means, is tranfer of weath to eastern europe, the middle east and china, from the USA and the UK, and places west, outside the EU, like Iceland and scandinavia.

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  • A word from plato :

    Great reading ————- Debate :– Constructs ———- Insults :– Destroy. What do you really want to acheive?

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  • P4ac We know where West and East are. The question was why should wealth be transferred from West to East. Logic dictates that money will flow to the emerging economies (for the moment), but S2r1 and his supporters are constantly banging on about the ‘elite’ stealing all our wealth, so do all these elite live in China then?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    And S2R, the other big conspiracy that you could map, the Manhattan Project. When was that uncovered? Could that be the date of widespread take-up of the 9/11 truth movement?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Or, given that this cycle is about ethics, not power, would we see something on those dates (pearl harbour and hiroshima/negasaki equivalents), not on the demonstration of power, but demonstration of ethics? Anyway, I want to know the dates, so that we can test your theory.

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  • That’s it. I can’t take any more. I’m off to bed.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p. doff. The elite bankers are not loyal to any particular country, imo. Their objective would however be to avoid any strong nation state where there is government that does not have sufficient control over the people. Some believe that China is a model for the elite for controlling the people. It has won more awards from the UN than any other country regarding its actions. Things like the one child per family policy.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    P4AC,

    Pearl Harbour maps to 30 April 2008.
    I think Ron Paul launched his book then.

    Compared to the 5-10m that died at Stalingrad/Russian front, the 3m men involved in the D-Day landings, and the Japanses A-bombs, Pearl Harbour was a minor event.

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  • So there you have it p4ac. S2r1 thinks that the act of military aggression that sucked the mighty US into WW11, unquestionably affecting the outcome (and the world as we know it), equates to — erm– Ron Paul launching a book.

    Yep, I bet you are really convinced by the Mayan Calendar ‘evidence’ now, aren’t you.

    S2r1 believes because he wants and needs to. I fear that you are regrettably of the same ilk.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p.doff. A Republican Presidential candidate publishing a best selling book, questioning the entire Republican foreign policy and Federal Reserve System. This is dynamite. Pearl Harbour is what brought the good guys, the USA, into WWII, which led to its end point. Maybe Ron Paul’s book will make wavering American’s who care, decide to enter the fray and fight against all the injustice.

    What were the cycle aniversary dates for the D-Day landings, A-bombs, declaration of peace and ending of rationing? Was the end of rationing at the final days of the 5th night? I should go work it out myself, but I think you’d be far quicker! Interestingly, all would fall into the 5th night period, I believe.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p.doff, I believe many things. I do not believe the Mayan Calender, but I think its an interesting idea, one that is verifiably a historic thing with archeaological evidence, and, fascinatingly, it explains many of the mysteries in Genesis and Revealations within the Bible. We are discussing hypothesese that are verifiable and testable. I am merely, in my own way, entering into a dialogue on that level. Fortunately, there are still a few people capable of absorbing information asking questions without committing the mind.

    “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it” Aristotle (325 BC) “Nicomachean Ethics” pp.I.1094b24

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  • “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it” Aristotl {325 BC)

    Precisely. But those who have an educated mind also dismiss the [email protected] pretty promptly. P.Doff (2008)

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p.doff, just because you say something is [email protected] because it appears kooky, or different to what you have been used to thinking, does not mean that it is [email protected] Attack my arguments with questions and debates, do not attack me personally. My point of quoting Aristotle, is, that, by engaging in the debate, and asking questions with an open mind, you should not feel so insecure as to need to lash out and call me my idea abstract names of insult. You should be able to entertain the thought without accepting it. This is a very important philosophical point that I’m trying to make. Take note, that VI’s have attacked HPC bloggers for a very long time, in a similar manner to how you are attacking me. In allowing this, the general public, by letting down their vigilance (which is the cost of liberty), they now have egg on their face. I hope that you don’t get egg on your face for failing to question the establishment and their lies.

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  • P4ac. Look! The site is called Housepricecrash and I’ve been blogging on it for years. I found it of interest because I am a surveyor involved in the property valuation field and hence the information and views were relevant to my situation, particularly the job security aspect. I would like advance warning of where the property market is going and I believe this site helps me achieve that. I am getting more than a little peed-off with the conspiracy theorists with their kooky ideas which clutter this site and bear no relation to HPC whatsoever – water driven combustion engines being a recent example of off-topic discussion. (which incidentally appears rediculous to anyone with my mechanical and electrical engineering background)

    I am capable of entertaining thought without accepting it. I am also capable of sorting out the wheat from the chaff. I have looked at the VI articles of HPC denial over the last few years and, as you will note from my comments, I have remained very much a bear throughout, having scrutinised the facts and reached what I believe to be a rational conclusion. Don’t forget that I have seen at first hand the ever increasing dodgy deals, the 125% mortgages, the broker scams, the BTL frenzy on flats etc and I am on record ages ago stating that IMHO it was unsustainable, when the general view was that the ‘good times’ were set to continue ad-infinitum.

    So, don’t worry about me getting egg on my face. I have always questioned the establishment – quite vocally on occasion (much to my wife’s annoyance). I am fully aware of the spin and lies dished out by politicians, but I think I know where to draw the line.

    Despite my belief that the property market would collapse, I have no vested interest either way – I have not cashed in and sold-to-rent for example. This is because I regard my house as somewhere nice to live and not an investment. Quite frankly, I can’t be bothered worrying about it. I did inherit a house last year and luckily sold at what proved to be close to the top of the market. This was a no-brainer as the potential rent would not have stacked up anyway, but I may have hung on if I thought prices would continue to increase.

    It was not my intention to attack anyone, and I don’t wish to be smug, but I get exasperated at the drivel that is finding it’s way onto this site. You seem an intelligent sort of person but I sincerely believe that you are succumbing and reacting to some of the extremist views on this site (and other sites no doubt) with a degree of paranoia. It is not for me to tell people how to live their lives but I genuinely feel you would be better off staying in reality land and avoiding the more nutty side of youtube etc. There is a beautiful world out there and life is short, so stop worrying and smell the flowers!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    I never suggested that you had a vested interest. I just don’t understand the doublethink. The acceptance of media manipulation, vested interest and conspiracy in the case of the housepricecrash, but failure to accept the possibility of exactly the same pattern being carried out in the very structures that caused it in the first place, and in other things carried out by the same control system. Once again, double think is the recognition of something concurrent with the denial of its existence. Double think in its purest form is about a single issue, as seen in Orwell’s 1984 novel. But, it is more subtle and arguably more dangerous, and definitely a slippery slope to have recognition of a corrupt system in one arena, whilst vehemently denying it in another, even though the two arena’s are subject to the same corporate and socio economic system. It is very important therefore, for your sanity and liberty (eternal vigilance being the cost of liberty), to maintain your power of reason whatever the circumstance, even when it goes against the grain. If your model is proved right in houseprice crash then it is illogical to not apply the same reasoning to other economic and political issues.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    And I agree, there is a nutty side of youtube. But the two films I’ve posted are widely respected, and neither have been seriously challenged.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The only bit I disagree about, re: taking liberties, is that Churchill was entirely into peace. He was a member of the Bildeburg Group, which was includes in its membership the very financiers who funded both sides of the war. But I can’t proove that this was Churchill’s way, I can only say that it is my instinct. He had blue blood through and through, just look at the palace he was born in in Oxfordshire, Blenheim Palace.

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