Tuesday, June 3, 2008

As I predicted

The great rice crisis: Rationing at UK supermarkets as world prices soar 70 per cent

Now guys. You all had a go at me for suggesting that rationing was heading to the UK. Well, its already arrived. Rice, now rationed at your local supermarket. This is a test for the public in advance of the rationing that will occur if personal carbon credits are rolled out across the UK, in response partly to this situation, which is being blamed on global warming (crop failure), and peak oil. This is what the asset price boom is about. It is fed by the global financiers, to trigger a crisis that will give governments a mandate to install full control and tax (payable to the central banks that administer the carbon credit system), not payable to government. You will pay the financiers, in our case the Bank of England, soon to be the ECB, for the "luxury" using the natural element, carbon.

Posted by planning4acrash @ 12:28 AM (1925 views)
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105 thoughts on “As I predicted

  • planning4acrash says:

    Sorry to bank on more, but, I appeal to any Christians out there, to re-read Revelations. This is the system that embodies the mark of the beast. Full control, full loss of liberty.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Apologies, but remember, that rice prices have not soared, inflation has occured as a result of monetary expansion and speculation on futures markets, and our currency has been devalued.

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  • stillthinking says:

    But in the UK we can buy rice, if so inclined, from any corner grocery store. The rice problem affects people on five dollars a month. Maybe that should be us but it is not. We don’t even eat rice at home. The price can go anywhere. Potatoes are a different story. Deny the masses their chips and you have problems.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    This is MAINSTREAM. We must be sure as hell that this is not a big fat lie, before our consumption is reduced by 3%, year on year, we must be ABSOLUTELY SURE that we are not suffering, whilst the military industrial complex expands its use of fossil fuels in the endless war on terrorism, and that corporations do not multiply their use of carbon, whilst we suffer. Because, if the system is run by central banks, run by bankers, it will equal Corporatism, Corporate Fascism, not environmentalism. Corporations will continue to pollute, whilst they control and tax everything we do.

    From the BBC: Carbon “credit cards” could be issued as part of a nationwide carbon RATIONING scheme, Environment Secretary David Miliband has suggested.
    From the Guardian: Swipe-card plan to ration consumers’ carbon use
    An authority independent of government sets a total carbon emissions budget (the “cap”) for the country each year, which is decreased by thee percent each year in a series of downward steps; in a decade emissions have been cut by 30 per cent.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Still thinking, this crisis is but a few months old. This is but the beginning. There are breadlines as we speak forming in parts of some US cities where grain is being rationed because it is being sold off to pay of the ridiculous national debt there and to produce ethanol. The pain is true for pensioners and third world people and those on minimum wage, now. But, forget your wealth. If you are rationed, you cannot buy as much as you want. You have lost a liberty!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Just one more point. Rewind to us rebutting the VI’s on housprices, sound fundamentals, supply and demand, foreigners mopping up supply, get rich ponzi schemes. Complicity and active disinformation from media, politicians, regulators and the industry.

    Back to doublethink. This is a concept from Orwell’s 1984, which means to recognise something whilst simultaneously denying its existence. To recognise these patterns in the housepricecrash, yet not recognise them in the commodities boom that followed the houspricecrash is explicit doublethink. Particularly when bloggers here, the very ones who put me down, overwhelmingly understand that the commodity boom is a result of monetary expansion, from central banks, ploughed into speculation into futures markets for commodities to bail out bank balance sheets after the sub-prime collapse, and to save the bond insurers. It does not take a leap of the imagination to think that the very same central banks could be considering a tax system to end all tax systems, where they get to monitor, control and tax everything we do. If they can take your home, steal money from your pocket via inflation, finance the Iraq war, and more, then total control is just a logical conclusion of a long standing pattern, made possible here and now, by the very recent roll out of broadband technology. This is the answer to the question of why now. WWII failed because of the threat of nuclear holocaust, they have been waiting until now for a method that does not require brute force, because they know it to be a failed approach, which is why, after Hiroshima and Negasaki, they took plan B, starting up the United Nations, and the World Bank and the IMF as an embryo for a more subtle attempt at world government and total corporate fascism.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    I don my tin hat, await the verbal volley’s, and am off to bed.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    While appreciating your good intentions I feel it only fair to point out….

    – if you’re going to rubbish someone’s ideas, use a modicum of intellectual rigor.
    – its PROPAGATION, not propagation.

    Best Wishes,

    Ray
    Gardenia.net

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oh, Gardeniadotnet. I simply posed you a question. How, when my Grandad of all people, used propagation to tend to his apple orchard, can you suggest that it is a solution to global food prices, when it is monetary expansion that is causing 9 tenths of the rise in price? I do not doubt that you may have some great ideas on gardening, but, quite frankly, the times for gardeners world as a solution to the new world order are running out. Unfortunately, Gardeners Question time, however brilliant and useful, will not solve a commodities boom led by the most reckless, free, media and government supported global banking system ever seen on this planet. Joking aside, my point is, that no technical solution is available, other than regaining control over our money supply, sacking the central banks, and instituting sound monetary policies. A 100% gold standard is the only solution I know of. With sound money, we would have true capitalism, and, should your farming solution be successful, you will amass capital and be wealthy, and so will those who follow your lead, and, with there being no monetary expansion, all those who, through thrift and savings, who have money in their pockets, will find that, as a result of the growth in GDP caused by you, that their money will purchase more stuff, that their money will have grown in purchasing power without any need to be paid interest banks that cause the very inflation that they only partially compensate you for. So there is a real trickle down effect. The reality today is the total opposite, one only becomes rich by allying oneself to the financiers and discovering the dark art of speculation and gambling, and, in some cases, of insider trading and golden handshakes. Apologies if my comments earlier came across as derogatory, I was merely attempting to put propagation of plants, as a gardening technique, into context with the actual financial and political crisis upon us. And please, do not stoop to the lows of criticising spelling on a website without spellchecking or the option of editing.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oh, and good luck with your research and efforts on gardening. I’ve just planted a salad garden on my window cills and window box. It is immensly satisfying and, with the sprouting of seeds and pulses, I am self sufficient in salad. So I do sympathise with your work, just don’t see it is a solution to the global crisis.

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  • Whilst I agree we are in a real mess – possibly even a depression – I’m not sure it will lead to the apocalypse which p4ac seems to be indicating. The thing is that as the situation is mad-made, it will take other men to sort it out. We aren’t facing a calamity like an astaroid from outer space or a tidal wave that has engulfed half of Europe….though it may only be a matter of time.

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  • Can no one remember the rationing in the seventies? I appear to have missed the end of the world that followed that period. Bags of sugar, 1 per customer, if they had any, it seems so funny now.

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  • it_is_going_with_a_bang says:

    10Kg bags of rice rationed!?
    LoL I’m not suprised.
    Panic buying rice. Please. No more. I have bought and used about 2 kg in 6 months….

    So what theres a shortage? Does it really matter here. No is the answer.
    It may well matter in countries where rice is a large part of the diet.

    The issue here is that we live a life which expects everything quite literally on a plate. Sometimes that doesn’t happen. It would not be a bad thing to be reminded of it

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  • Good grief, the site is slowly turning into a forum for conspiracy theorists and religious nutters. Shame really, it used to be a good read.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    p4ac said

    >the times for gardeners world as a solution to the new world order are running out.
    LOL

    You’re right. Propagation in its various forms has been practiced for centuries. However, amazingly, no one seems to have realised what happens when the power of exponential growth is applied to plant cloning, or at least they haven’t shared the knowlege with a wider audience.

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  • P4ac (flintster/s2r1/oracle etc)

    Just how many aliases and ‘sock puppets’ have you invented to create the illusion of support for your wacky ideas.

    Please keep religion out of the debate as well, thanks.

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  • While here in the UK we spend on average 10% of our incomes on food, it is the world’s poorest – who spend up to 80% on feeding themselves – that are bearing the brunt of shortages.Food expert Professor Tim Lang, from City University, believes the solution to the poorer nations’ problems starts here, at home, with us.
    He told Sky News: “I think we’ve got to take moral leadership – we rich countries like the UK, the US and EU states – and we have to lower our own food systems’ impact on the earth.”
    He went on: “If everyone ate like the British, we’d need to have six planets. The British are over-using space, resources, energy and saying; ‘look at our efficient system.’ sky news.)

    spoilt, no who would dare say that? whats wrong with you people. ?you want to export a housing boom n bust all over the world and now youre eating more than the world can grow for you.

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  • flintster1994 says:

    Calling someone a “sock puppet,” to me is similar in purpose to labelling someone a “conspiricy theorist”. A simple minded attempt at preventing someone from voicing a personal opinion that is contrary to the labelers.

    As far as I am concerned I am happy to listen to what P4ac has to say. It certainly gets youthinking.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    G. said “they haven’t shared the knowlege with a wider audience”

    Meant “knowledge”

    That’ll learn me.

    Once a teacher always a teacher, I suppose.

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  • I realise I should try and debate in an intellectual way but I simply cant be bothered. This is nonsense of the highest order.

    PS. Just how many times do you need to post? Ever tried getting your thoughts in order before posting? You just sound like a rambling lunatic……. Funny that.

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  • p4c, 10kg is a lot of rice (and we personally eat a lot of rice by the way).

    You can wear your tinfoil hat if you like, I’m not quite convinced yet though – when I see rationing of bread and other grain products then I’ll be convinced 100% that you are on to something. but not for the time being.

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  • what about chicken tikka masala?We need rice for that don’t we?If they start rationing in my local curry house,then its back to eating bloody chips again(with no cod).Looks like we really are heading back to the 70’s.

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  • george monsoon says:

    Just to put you guys in the picture..

    I work for the company that would develop the software system to run these cards and I can tell you now that we are not aware of any plans to introduce this system at present.

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  • Saying “We’re low on rice honey”, has a profoundly different meaning between rich and poor countries. What could seriously undermine our Paella might be starvation for someone else. I do see that the growing of biofuels is a conventient leverage of agricultural land and food (prices & control) – and also a great plug for GM foods as we need to grow more on less land, so we’ll be told it’s all neccessary fundamentals. If you need to control the world, you need you hold it by the goolies somewhere.

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  • So where does this price increase come from over the past year? Has demand increased dramatically or supply reduced enough to justify such an increase? I wonder how much of this is down to speculation above normal supply and demand.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >what about chicken tikka masala?We need rice for that don’t we?

    Hey, yeah! And chicken korma. I do like a nice korma. In fact, I was only saying the other day…

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  • flintster1994 says:

    Pendulum,

    I hadn’t thought about the GM angle. I sincerely hope you are wrong!

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  • Strangely – the movie Omen II has a whole subplot about the anti-christ gaining global political and corporate dominance by cornering people into relying on GM food… And that was made in 1978..

    How prophetic

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  • While I don’t ascribe any esoteric supernatural causes to our current global predicaments (it’s simply a nexus of Hubbert’s Curve meets excess climate change gases – thanks to industrialisation) we will be seeing instances of food scarcity here in the UK in the coming years.
    Consider: we’re an island, carrying an excess population (above that figure we can feed indigenously) of about 40m. We depend on food imports. The cost of food production is ramping up (fertilisers/pesticides – both oil-based) as is transport (subject to fuel prices), and with producer nations more likely to keep their own produce at home for domestic markets – or changing to more usefully supportive crops (rather than wasting valuable arable land growing luxuries like tea and coffee) we’re going to be getting even less of that additional support.

    Rice isn’t really a problem for us. But Apart from all the oil-based woes, a global drought problem is currently hitting the main wheat growing areas of the world – leaving the planet with perilously low stocks of one of our staple foodstuffs (I think it’s something like 3 months’ worth in storage). So, when you get the additional threat of devastating diseases, like the untreatable wheat rust UG99 also stalking the globe, you can see why Planning4ACrash is rummaging under the stairs for his book of Revelations.

    Do yourselves a favour – follow the advice issued by FEMA, and the Australian authorities, and have 1-6 months food stored away for when the inevitable supermarket riots start. Just use and replace – that way you’ll always have something on hand within the use-by dates. This is official government advice by the way, not just me being all ‘apocalyptic’!

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  • For Christ’s sake spot please posting this complete nonsense…. there are other forums for this sort of fringe stuff – you are ruining this forum’s reputation. There may be some elements of truth, but stop blowing it all out of all proportion.

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  • the northerner living in oz says:

    If I want to learn about the revelations and the end of the world I will join The-end.com

    Or watch the bible channel.

    Please stay in the real world & on topic!

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  • I read the book “The Final Crash” quite a while ago

    http://www.finalcrash.com/

    and although I consider myself an uber-bear to the point of miserable pessimism, even I found some of the predictions in this book to be fantastically negative. However – several months on and I am amazed at how much is coming true, and even more amazed at the accuracy of his predicted timings.

    All probably very old news to people on this forum but still worth a read IMO

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  • Sorry

    the relevance being that he talks a lot about food shortages, and riots over food etc – which I really didn’t buy into at the time.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac, corporations rely on consumers buying products for their money – why would they support a tax or rationing that threatens that income? What you propose that ‘they’ are planning is unsustainable. With no consumers, there is no profit, no corporations, no banks, no stockmarket, no money for speculation. It is simply not achievable, which is why it is not happening. Total control is NOT the logical conclusion to this, if the current system works fine and we actively support it. As I have pointed out before – overt totalitarianism failed – our current corporate totalitarianism with one party democracy works much better for big business and politics because the public buy into it. The control aspect – ID cards and so on, are simply those in power wishing to increase their power, just the same as those with money seek to increase their wealth – natural, no conspiracy, but all things we can change with our buying and voting habits.

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  • Shipbuilder, very clear argument, I like it!

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  • I’ll add my tuppence here:
    What a steaming pile of horse excrement this thread is, as are many of the threads of late.

    What’s interesting is that now HPC is real this site seems to have been completely monopolised by people intent on discrediting its raison d’etre with complete guff. This site used to be highly informative and was a useful port-of-call that could comprise a portfolio of sites worth viewing in order to make a balanced opinion. Anybody visiting this blog now will simply conclude that it is not worth viewing and inhabited by conspiracy theorists.

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  • I’m thinking of buying the book inbreda, would you recommend it?

    (I’m not one for groundless hyperbole and if he doesn’t back up observations with figures, I probably wouldn’t be into it.)

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    This summer’s crisis is the warm up to the one in 2011.
    Power and wealth will be transferred to the East this summer through 2010 (believe it or not these guys are more ethical than us).

    The final change in consciousness in 2011 will need a crisis focussed around the East.
    After watching BBC’s Wild China, intuition says it will be the melting of the Himalayan glaciers that will be the cause of a major food crisis in 2011.

    The melt water from the glaciers provides 2.5 billion people with water to grow their crops. If the melt water flow stops then we have a very big problem.

    BTW Revelations is a “red herring” here. Don’t get suckered into religious prophecies.

    The solution to the problems in 2011 will be co-creation.

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  • Hear, hear denzil.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Sold2Rent, Calleman doesn’t think that Revelations is a red herring. He talks about the relationship between genesis, revelations and the calender in his first book.

    Anyway, its been done now, this is a prediction, I hope people here think carefully about what I said about doublethink on the issue, and we shall see. For Christ sake tho, David Milliband said it could be a good idea. We all know that he is being groomed for prime minister!!!! And I have only used mainstream articles, the mail, guardian and BBC. Time shall tell, in the meantime, I recommend the precautionary principle, just as our grandparents did during WWII.

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  • p4ac said:
    “doublethink”.

    For Christ sake why don’t you just change your name to Winston Smith and have done with it.

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  • The ‘credit crunch’ has been caused by people playing around with economic mechanisms, fuelling ideas of illusory and endless wealth for all. These fads come and go and, up to now, we’ve been able to get through times of trouble to eventually get back on track.
    This time though, the actual basis of our real wealth (oil – aka cheap energy) is becoming a vanishing commodity, and we’re going to feel the pain – in increased costs and prices; unemployment; reduction in social and actual mobility, and the permanent collapse of the housing market as a forum for exchange and profit – right across the board.

    Now, while I agree that we could all do without the Nostradamus element that’s crept into this thread, anything that threatens the viability of the global economy does have a direct bearing on the idea of a ‘housepricecrash’ and is worth discussing – even if it’s only on the basis that reduction in incomes inevitably affects people’s ability to pay their mortgages.

    Interestingly, the ‘conspiracy theory’ angle is absolutely spot-on in the case of oil. The geologist who first blew the whistle on the oil companies back in the 50s (Marion K. Hubbert; develop of Peak-Oil theory) was effectively silenced and ostracised by the industry – which nevertheless knew full well in the ensuing decades, that his forecasts were perfectly correct and – in the case of US domestic oil production – accurate to within a year. Governments and oil companies have sat on the bad news ever since, when in fact the correct action would have been (as the US govt. Hirsch Report has spelled out) to pepare the world for a steady transition towards a reduced carbon economy. However, it looks as if short-term greed won out over responsible management on a massive scale.

    Now that’s what I call a conspiracy.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Denzil, you sad degenerate. You had the opportunity to attempt a debunk of the doublethink concept, which, is extraordinarily respected throughout the literary world. But instead, you decide to call me a name! Are you only capable of Pavlovian conditioned response? Have you lost any control of your own god given skills of analysis? Do you miss the playground?

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  • shipbuilder says:

    lierbag – you’d think that the NWO conspiracy websites would pick up on peak oil, as it could fit easily into their theories. Quite the opposite, though – they see peak oil as the conspiracy and prefer to believe in abiogenic oil. I wondered why until I realised that the NWO theorists, rather than being the freedom-loving saviours of their fellow man that they portray, are completely self-serving, self-interested, obsessed with money and rabidly anti-environmentalist.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p4ac – in you’re post above, this was perfectly reasonable –

    “Back to doublethink. This is a concept from Orwell’s 1984, which means to recognise something whilst simultaneously denying its existence. To recognise these patterns in the housepricecrash, yet not recognise them in the commodities boom that followed the houspricecrash is explicit doublethink. Particularly when bloggers here, the very ones who put me down, overwhelmingly understand that the commodity boom is a result of monetary expansion, from central banks, ploughed into speculation into futures markets for commodities to bail out bank balance sheets after the sub-prime collapse, and to save the bond insurers.”

    The second part, however –

    “It does not take a leap of the imagination to think that the very same central banks could be considering a tax system to end all tax systems, where they get to monitor, control and tax everything we do. If they can take your home, steal money from your pocket via inflation, finance the Iraq war, and more, then total control is just a logical conclusion of a long standing pattern, made possible here and now, by the very recent roll out of broadband technology. This is the answer to the question of why now. WWII failed because of the threat of nuclear holocaust, they have been waiting until now for a method that does not require brute force, because they know it to be a failed approach, which is why, after Hiroshima and Negasaki, they took plan B, starting up the United Nations, and the World Bank and the IMF as an embryo for a more subtle attempt at world government and total corporate fascism.”

    Why add on the second bit? This is what annoys people and has meant that your message is actually turning people off rather than convincing them. It is your own opinion with no evidence – when you try and present it as fact, you lose credibility.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >What a steaming pile of horse excrement this thread is, as are many of the threads of late.

    Denzil,

    I have had many “doh! why did I post that” moments. You should now know the feeling after typing the above comment.

    The fact is, like it or not, this site is moving far beyond its original house price remit.

    I sense the webmasters are at least comfortable with this and probably welcome it.

    For me, HPC is the Samuel Pepys Diary of the 21st Century.

    Continue reading and learning, my friend.

    G.

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  • 37. denzil said…
    I’ll add my tuppence here:
    What a steaming pile of horse excrement this thread is, as are many of the threads of late.

    This news artical is completely on topic! No market can be meaningfully discussed in isolation. What is the point of this forum anyway? The mainstream media has put it down many times by branding bloggers doom mongers etc. As soon as you entertain the idea of media manipulation, you can soon move on to other conclusions. If the people cant trust their information sources where does that lead? (or where has it lead?) Reality demands that we keep the powers that be in check and that our information sources are uncorrupted.

    p.doff’s accusations of ‘sock puppets’ could just as equally apply to him. But, assuming he isn’t his view is just an equally important part of the discussion as is yours. planning4acrash seems to me like a bright guy with good motives but of course should be scrutinised. Its a case of opposing opinions. Just like with some of the bulls on here a few months ago.

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  • By the way. Just saw President Armadinajad on BBC news claiming the rise in food prices is completely ‘artificial’ and that there is plenty of oil in the system.

    For anyone interested in the Fiat money debate:

    http://gilliganscorner.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/debt-based-money-a-guarantee-to-destroy-the-planet/

    This is an issue that needs exposure and discussion. Everyone should have an idea on how the system works. That way it cant be abused.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Unplugged, thank you. I am happy to be scrutinised, and, if you demonstrate that I’m wrong about something, I’ll be extremely pleased, because I do not care about and am not committed to any particular viewpoint, other than to try and seek some understanding of the crazy stuff that’s going on. I just want to understand why rice prices can go up 70% and be rationed in the space of a week!!

    Shipbuilder said: Why add on the second bit? (Duh, I added it because it is my opinion, and, I think its relevant and because I decided to express it, which, is exactly why you expressed your opinion. Incase you haven’t yet noticed, the fact that somebody is distressed or anoyed by me expressing my opinion has no bearing on whether or not I will express it. Debate me on the individual issues, provide evidence, do your own research. But don’t tell me I can’t say something because it makes you feel queezy. The situation out there makes me feel queezy, which is why I won’t let up about it. We still have, unless you haven’t noticed, not yet totally lost our right to free speach.)

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Unplugged, everybody here understand and agree about how the fiat system caused the houseprice boom and crash, yet fail to see how it works on commodities, hence the doublethink. This has now become a psychological and cognitive issue of truth denail flat earthers. Why? Because you get sleepless nights when you understand what is really going on. When you let the truth into your life, it hits you like a hammer. But I would rather be open to the truth than walk around like a zombie.

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  • P4ac @ 6 & 44.

    Every Orwellian scholar (which you obviously purport to be) knows that to use the word ‘doublethink’ it is necessary to excercise ‘doublethink’. Having just used it and exercised it, it is impossible for you to debunk the theory, because you have forgotten that you used it, or that it even exists.

    Now I don’t understand the word ‘doublethink’ because I am not an Orwellian Scholar, but having just used it, it must exist and I must have inadvertently excercised it but forgotten that I had.

    To put it another way, she turned me into a newt, but it appears that I got better.

    Using a new found consciousness, you will now understand why some people are getting cheesed off with your ramblings.

    Flintster @ 18. You accepted the situation and didn’t seem to mind when you were rumbled by shipbuilder yesterday.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    p. doff, I cannot have forgotten the phrase and used it at the same time, because I used it in retrospect to analyse something that somebody else said. It may be different if I use the phrase to analyse a thought process that I am undertaking here and now, but, that again changes, if I recognise doublethink in retrospect and re-analyse my actions.

    You, by your own ommission, do not understand the concept you just posted or the specific analysis of it and have clearly taken a valid line of reasoning out of context.

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  • P. Doff's Sock Puppet says:

    Hey P.Doff. You are so clever and insightful. I wish I could be like you. Everything you say is so true and the more of your wisdom I hear, the more I worship you.

    All those other bloggers don’t understand you. They obviously haven’t reached your level of consciousness yet. If they had they would realise that they are the doublethinkers for even considering that you might be talking [email protected]

    Please keep on posting because I yearn for more. Who cares if what you say has nothing to do with HPC. It’s all music to my ears.

    Let’s see if that gets by webmaster. LOL

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  • The Money Reform Party

    “The creation of money by a private company (a bank) is ethically indistinct from that of a back-street counterfeiter turning out dodgy tenners, therefore it should be illegal”

    Anne Belsey, Founder of the Money Reform Party.

    The purpose of the Party and its sole policy shall be to promote, by any legal means, the abolition of the power to create state-backed money (sterling) by private individuals or companies for private profit, and the investment of that power in national or local government for the benefit of the public purse.

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  • P4ac @ 53 ish.
    Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour? Either way I’m afraid I’m not allowed to argue any more unless you pay!

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  • On the 22nd December, 1964, Captain Henry Kerby, MP, placed the following Motion before the House of Commons.

    That this House considers that the continued issue of all the means of exchange – be they coin, bank-notes or credit, largely passed on by cheques – by private firms as an interest-bearing debt against the public should cease forthwith; that the Sovereign power and duty of issuing money in all forms should be returned to the Crown, then to be put into circulation free of all debt and interest obligations, as a public service, not a private opportunity of profit and control for no tangible returns to the British people; and that the volume of money be controlled so as to maintain stable prices:

    http://www.prosperityuk.com/prosperity/articles/kerby.html

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  • Planning4acrash says:

    p.doff. Don’t insult my intelligence by suggesting to me that you cannot possibly debunk my line of reasoning for lack of time, given that you have clearly spent enough time online here already to put forward an argument. You may not wish to default beyond personal insult, abuse and out of context lines of reasoning, but you aren’t fooling me. Hopefully you aren’t fooling anybody else. Like I said, debate me, but debate me properly, and don’t put forward lame excuses for not bothering or not being able to do so.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Unplugged, everybody here understand and agree about how the fiat system caused the houseprice boom and crash, yet fail to see how it works on commodities, hence the doublethink. This has now become a psychological and cognitive issue of truth denail flat earthers. Why? Because you get sleepless nights when you understand what is really going on. When you let the truth into your life, it hits you like a hammer. But I would rather be open to the truth than walk around like a zombie.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Jeez, this posting isn’t working, um, yer, your lame excuse for not debating me on the concept of doublethink is only that, a lame exuse, because you are unable or unwilling to take the discussion about personal attack and insult and out of context concepts. Go back to the playground.

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  • I’m off!

    This site has become a joke and the realisation of its cause has sadly become the reason for its demise. Thanks to all the learned contributors (many of whom left quoting the same reason I have) for enhancing my understanding of the forces that impact the property market and financial markets in general.

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  • It has been said that there should be no taxation without representation, yet private financiers can issue “imaginary” money out of nothing by mere book entry and lend it at interest, they acquire the profit of issue and of interest gratis, at the cost of the whole community.

    This is taxation in the fullest sense, accompanied not by the representation of the taxed . . .

    . . . It follows that the power of Parliament in general, and especially with regard to Money is non-existent, and all true sovereignty is in the hands of those private individuals who issue all money and determine its value and distribution.

    If even the State borrows from them, having abandoned its own powers of coinage (emission) to private financiers, how can that State claim to be truly sovereign?

    The real basis of the power of the money-creators and money-lenders lies in the fact that few know the truth about this financial “hidden hand.”

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  • denzil said…
    I’m off!

    Think I’ll shortly be joining you mate. In the absence of adequate moderation this site is turning into a cranks paradise.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Malct, it is not only a tax, it is a ration, mixed with monitoring and undemocratic control. And you will need a police state and force to enforce it!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oh, there you are again p.doff, once again, you refused to debate me. You are the crank.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    @ denzil said “I’m off!”

    OK, bye, thanks for coming! (door slams)
    Phew, thought he’d never go…
    Hey! He’s only gone and taken his beer home with him! The no-good, sneaky little….

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  • Forum for Stable Currencies

    1. Publicly-Created Money is our current Early Day Motion (EDM 390) which was tabled by Austin Mitchell MP on June 22nd 2005.

    It is the fifth continued attempt to raise awareness among politicians and possibly journalists. Signed by 9 MPs, 2 of whom are Lib Dems who are behind three other related EDMs, it may signal that times are changing: on the Gap between Rich and Poor and High and Low Level Earners (EDM 2 and 3) and Miscellaneous Bank Charges (EDM 87).

    WriteToThem is the easiest way to contact your MP, local councillor, London Assembly Member and European Member of Parliament.

    The next question is WHAT to write to them. http://www.monies.cc/forum/actions/fax_your_mp.htm makes suggestions for past EDMs which are still as valid for the current one. Happy writing!

    Organising the Forum for Stable Currencies has been my ‘social life with meaning’ while my ‘real life’ was revisiting mathematics through the eyes of a system analyst. http://www.sabine.homechoice.co.uk tells you more.

    http://www.monies.cc/

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  • Look p4ac. It would be unfair of me to enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Are you so wrapped up in your idiotic ideas that you can’t tell when somebody is ‘avin a larf at your expense. I was just using random quotes from Monty Python you loon. I’m not normally given to cruel schoolboy humour but look what you have driven me to.

    You and your ilk are driving away anyone who is likely to offer sensible debate on sensible topics. This site used to be excellent and now that HPC appears to have commenced, I was hoping it would still provide some insight on when the ‘bottom’ is reached and any recovery starts, so I can make future plans.
    You and your henchmen/sock puppets are putting that at risk and the ramblings aren’t even amusing any more.

    Be off with you!.

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  • Phew! do you think they’ve really gone?

    better show a video to keep the peace = Money as debt – A short film by Paul Grignon for those who haven’t seen it yet

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html

    It’s a strange system
    and it’s not in our best interests

    One of the last things John F. Kennedy did before he was assassinated was declare his intention to reform the central banking system of the United States.

    No connection between these two events?

    Congressman Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee from 1927-33, opposed the Federal Reserve System. There were three reported attempts on his life before he finally died of “heart failure.”

    Here’s what he said about the Federal Reserve from the floor of Congress – follow link

    more links here:- http://www.populistamerica.com/money_as_debt – – Anyone who hasn’t watched “Money As Debt,” an animated DVD by Paul Grignon, should consider purchasing this extraordinary explanation of money’s origin in an economy totally dependent on debt.

    and here – http://www.google.com/search?q=money+as+debt&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLR

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  • met office got the weather forecast wrong again today

    must be something in the air.

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  • Ponerology and the Pound – Humanity’s Worst Invention

    “The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil,
    but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.”
    Albert Einstein

    For some reason, thinking of bad inventions, my thoughts first turned to money. But then money in its original form as an enabler of the exchange of goods and services, is, or at least was, a good thing. It is when money is itself traded as a commodity that problems arise, especially on the international markets. In this context, I suggest humanity is in an advanced stage of delusion accelerating towards unstable, unsustainable insanity.

    Alongside this and in reality part of the same phenomena, are the mountains of debt which overshadow mankind’s very existence here on earth. Of course, all of this is very vague and very broad and right here we are looking for an invention, something we can isolate and pin down as not just a bad idea, but the one which has most negative influence on the planet. Humanity’s Worst Invention.

    So amidst cries of “off with his head” and “we can’t print that”
    I am proposing that The Bank of England is in deed the invention we are looking for.

    Of course there are at least two Bank of Englands, in perception terms that is. There is ‘our’ Old Lady of Threadneedle Street, the symbol of power and security, part of what being ‘British’ is all about. We can all get on with our personal stuff knowing the Pound is being safely looked after. Sadly, that is where the delusion begins and where the ‘other’ bank hides, the bank who’s shareholders MPs are not allowed to raise questions about in parliament. Check back on the real history if you need to. The origins of The Bank of England are anything but English and ‘our’ Pound is anything but safe.

    How a foreign (Dutch) king in 1688 managed to invade England by sea, and march an army from Devon to London as part of ‘The Decent on England’, depose the existing king, become king of England himself and somehow get this recorded in history books as ‘the glorious revolution, should make us all a little sceptical if not deeply suspicious. But of course William didn’t do this all on his own.

    Six years later the same transnational conspirators that had put him in ‘power’, came up with a brilliant loan plan to finance William’s obsession with war on France. The Bank of England was born and William’s obsession became the national debt. The loan was secured against future taxes on the British people who although never expected to repay the capital, pay the interest on it to this day. But that’s only part of the story, after all this is the worst invention and it does get worse.

    The government’s responsibility to provide currency was handed over to The Bank of England, perhaps the best printing job any ‘printer’ ever had, totally beyond comprehension. Not only this but also the right to charge the government (read ‘the people’) interest on the money printed. Madness? I think so. Over time money was printed with less and less security or fractional reserves so the money loaned actually didn’t (and doesn’t) exist until the loan is made. If it looks like a fish and smells like a fish it probably is a fish. A Yahoo search on fractional reserve banking today returned ‘about’ 336,000 entries. Millions of wide awake people are quietly weighing up the form and deciding what to do personally.

    And there’s worse to come, words like siphon, drain and plughole come to mind. It’s the interest, the interest on the loans, they never ever print the interest. Think what this means. If for instance and simplicity, ten people borrow £1,000 each for a year at 10% pa., the £10,000 is created out of nothing. At the end of the year they all pay back (or should if they could) the £1,000 they each borrowed plus £100 interest. So the bank has the £10,000 which was created out of thin air plus £1,000 interest which has been extracted from the genuine common wealth of the people. This has been going on for well over three hundred years.

    Gradually, no matter how hard we work, or how clever we are, fundamentally real wealth disappears from society and is replaced with debt, virtual money. Try playing the board game Monopoly with the bank taking back £200 each time you pass GO. Last time I checked more than 97% of the UK’s currency was debt, only existing in computer software. Virtual reality?

    The practical everyday effect of this is to boil the frog. Slowly over the years basic human values and concerns for each other and our environment are replaced by competitiveness, greed, selfishness and a lust for acquisition, power and wealth. Meanwhile, many millions of us in the so called developed world are avoiding or rather masking poverty with increasing debt.

    Last for the moment, but by no means least, once the Bank of England invention was up and running, it was a relatively simple matter to re-invent it all over the world in almost every country. This was of course in effect one of the principle functions of the British Empire. Eventually humanity developed a global version, the World Bank with its cousins the IMF and WTO with all the well reported ecological, humanitarian, economic, ethical and humanity threatening implications.

    But this was not before the same movers descended on the United States of America and created the Federal Reserve system in the image of the Bank of Amsterdam, sorry I meant England. At the time of writing, the US treasury secretary John Snow has recently (6th March) told Congress that rather than default on its obligations the nation is delving into pension funds to avoid hitting the $8,2 trillion debt limit.

    ‘The Fed’ will stop reporting on M3 on Thursday March 23rd, (whilst Congress is on a spring break) and only days after Iran’s intended new oil bourse may start trading oil, anybody’s oil, in Euros on 20th. This may expose the madness totally with dire consequences for us all.

    But what sort of people could create and perpetuate such a monster? Surely, some have said, behind these evil men must be something more, aliens perhaps or even reptiles from another dimension. This may be so, who really knows?.

    However, according to Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Ph.D in his soon to be published book Political Ponerology: a Science on The Nature of Evil adjusted for Political Purposes, from Red Pill Press, the answer is much closer to mankind. It’s in our genes, or more accurately, it is what is not in some peoples genes.

    Apparently a small percentage of humanity lacks the normal restraints of conscience, empathy, guilt or shame. At the same time not all are violent but most have the ability to mask their psychopathy with a facade of sanity and charm. Many will be reading this essay. Hi there!. How’s it going?.

    These people naturally gravitate into positions of power and influence in politics and commerce, where, once established they gradually modify the rules and laws to create a world that suits them. Compliance with their new world is rewarded with material success and so previously ‘normal’ humans adopt psychopathic behaviour in order to survive and prosper in a contrived and hostile environment.

    This I suggest is not a possibility, not a projected scenario or another ‘what if?, this is history. We, with help from our friends Mr Apathy and Mrs Complacency have lost control of our world to a minority group that have us suspended in an Orwellian, Huxlian dreamlike state, and, as ‘they’ are really part of ‘us’, their invention really belongs to humanity.

    “All that is required for evil to prevail
    is for good men to do nothing.”
    Edmunde Burke

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  • Personally I’d like to see denzil, p.doff and others stay and provide rational counter-argumants. There is also plenty of discussion and understanding to be had from other threads if you so wish. I’d certainly welcome their thoughts on the integrity of the debt based money system that we have in place (they are obliged to provide their viewpoint on this (IMO)). Let the site moderators make the judgements and set the policies.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    Slightly off topic

    Nuclear Explosion Suspected at Epicenter of the Sichuan Earthquake
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/030608Nuclear.htm

    There are now 3 reasons for the chinese earthquake
    1. Nuclear Explosion
    2. Natural
    3. HAARP earthquake machine
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VX0JvpW5q0

    WOW. And this mapped to my Battle of Stalingrad “fifth night” event (12-20 May 2008)
    There seems to be a whole mini information battle for this single event.
    Things are really heating up

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  • 70. unplugged said… “Personally I’d like to see denzil, p.doff and others stay and provide rational counter-argumants”

    agreed – but with a qualifying ‘if only’ – we’ve all come to the same place, from different starting points, via different routes, and had different experiences on the way.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >Personally I’d like to see denzil, p.doff and others stay and provide rational counter-argumants

    You’re right. In fact, I’m kinda missing those guys already. I’m gonna shout ’em back….

    HEY HORSE POO!!! HEY P.PANTS!!! COME BACK, WE’RE HAVIN’ A RIGHT LAFF HERE!

    They’re still walking. I don’t think they can hear me.

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  • @ 72. malct. Certainly they should. Dismissing or completely avoiding certain (glaring) issues only harms the points they are trying to make. We all have to tolerate and respect each other (though its easy to become annoyed, ridicule and gloating have no place in intelligent debate). That way we can all get closer to a consensus on what the truth may or may not be.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    @s2r1: >WOW. And this mapped to my Battle of Stalingrad “fifth night” event (12-20 May 2008)
    There seems to be a whole mini information battle for this single event.
    Things are really heating up.

    Yo Chuck man, yo, you gotta slow down man, you’re losin’ ’em!

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  • step by step, nudge by nudge total control comes closer.
    IMAGINE NOT BEING ABLE TO PAY SMALL BILLS IN CASH!

    Just getting used to shops etc not taking cheques – latest was Co-op in March and now!

    Had a car breakdown a few days ago, called out the AA (member) the fan belt had been left somewhere down the road.

    £6.75 no cheque, no CASH allowed had to be a card. Tell me it’s not happening. What happens if the driver dosen’t have a card?

    here’s a 2min clip – are we that far away?
    Freedom To Fascism (clip) Total Control Pizza Hut
    quote “This clip from the groundbreaking documentary Freedom to Fascism is the global elite’s plan for total and complete control of the world’s citizenry. What they call efficiency, is what the rest of the world calls a police state. Let people run the world, not markets!!! ”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjrKgXWaQso

    or if you have a personal problem with youtube, here’s a torrent – http://www.mininova.org/tor/513072

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The reason why loss of cash is so important, is that control mechanisms are not possible with cash. With a card, all transactions can be cross-referenced to your carbon allowance. Walkers Crisps now have the carbon of each packet. Just wait, it will be part of a rationing sysem.

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  • yes

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  • shipbuilder says:

    50. planning4acrash said…

    “Shipbuilder said: Why add on the second bit? (Duh, I added it because it is my opinion, and, I think its relevant and because I decided to express it, which, is exactly why you expressed your opinion. Incase you haven’t yet noticed, the fact that somebody is distressed or anoyed by me expressing my opinion has no bearing on whether or not I will express it.
    Debate me on the individual issues, provide evidence, do your own research. But don’t tell me I can’t say something because it makes you feel queezy. The situation out there makes me feel queezy, which is why I won’t let up about it. We still have, unless you haven’t noticed, not yet totally lost our right to free speach.)

    Why the paranoid rant? This is nothing to do with your right to free speech or otherwise. Let me explain the point of my post, which you missed – you are the person here with the self-stated mission to open people’s eyes, so I found it ironic that you have achieved the exact opposite – because you insist on extrapolating from valid points and stories to unfounded nonsense. It has now reached the point when people are ignoring even the valid points you do make.
    Aren’t you the hero, saying what you want and damn everyone else, standing up to my non-existent attempt to ‘censor’ you. Spare me the macho cr*p. You may not be letting up about it, but as i’ve said, no-one is listening anymore. In the past i’ve read with your posts with interest and gained a lot from them – I was simply asking why you are choosing the own goal.
    As for ‘debating the issues’, you have failed to answer any of my points on this thread or any of the last few days – as I am the one person who most regularly engages yourself, malct and S2R1 in debate on these topics, perhaps you should take your own pompous advice.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    @shipbuilder

    Out of interest, why haven’t you conferred your wisdom upon us regarding plant cloning / exponential growth / food production / biofuel production?

    G.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    Gardenia, I don’t claim to have any ‘wisdom’, just an inquiring and questioning mind and opinions. It’s not a subject I have much knowledge about, although I consider using land for food to grow fuel as vile. Local food for local people, as far as i’m concerned. I did look at your site and I have to confess that I don’t see how it is any different from what gardeners have been doing for years.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    @shipbuilder said…

    >I don’t see how it is any different from what gardeners have been doing for years.

    Fair enough.

    The issue as I see it is that many people understand plant cloning, and many people understand exponential growth, but unbelievably, I seem to be the only person who is actively disseminating information on the power of combining both aspects, and I am discovering new opportunities on an almost daily basis!

    G.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    Food for thought (excuse the pun):

    – I am currently cloning tomato plants.
    – Potatoes are a close relative of tomatoes.
    – I am applying my system to potatoes.
    – The first plants I experimented with will be produced at a rate of at least 1 million per month by August of this year.

    Not exactly QED, but you get the idea.

    G.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    Potatoes a close relative of tomatoes? Well good luck – I am hoping to be self-sufficient in vegetables at some point in the future.

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  • shipbuilder said…
    Potatoes a close relative of tomatoes?

    I think they are both members of the Nightshade family, but I can’t really see much advantage in cloning unless one finds a way to get plants to clone and plant themselves then grow to maturity at some vastly increased rate, in a negligible amount of growing medium, requiring next to no nutrients.

    But I don’t pretend to understand what Gardenia is on about and will therefore stay out of the debate on this one.

    I will merely ask — the relevance to HPC is —–?

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  • shipbuilder says:

    p. doff said…

    shipbuilder said…
    Potatoes a close relative of tomatoes?

    I think they are both members of the Nightshade family

    Ah! And tobacco too, apparently….perhaps with food prices on the up and houses on the way down, we could be swapping a bag of chips for our next house!

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  • Gardeniadotnet says:

    @shipbuilder
    >I am hoping to be self-sufficient in vegetables at some point in the future

    Follow the instructions I posted under the abiogenesis thread, and not only will you be self-sufficient, but you’ll have plenty to barter with in the “new economy” when/if it arrives.

    (It’s hard work keeping both sides of the conspiracy debate onside!)

    G.

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  • Gardeniadotnet says:

    p.doff >I will merely ask — the relevance to HPC is —–?

    As I said earlier, this site is rapidly evolving into something MUCH bigger.

    G.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    C’mon – we can get this one over 100 before the day’s out……

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    C’mon – we can get this one over 100 before the day’s out…..

    Don’t encourage me, I love a challenge.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    Hey, @s2r1….

    How’s this for a bit of synchronicity, karma, etc.

    One of the potato varieties I’m working on is called……. Mayan Gold.

    (cue Twilight Zone music..)

    G.

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  • Nah! I don’t think I can run with this one. My late father was a professor of Botany/Plant biology, but I don’t think I inherited any of his passion.

    Besides, if you are going to exponentially clone/take cuttings/whatever, surely your main problem will be the manpower requirement for the cutting, planting and nurturing of the zillions of plants that you hope to produce, all of which will presumably have the standard rate of growth/biomass increase for the species.

    Why would it be better than mechanically planting seeds and harvesting in the usual way, when seeds can be obtained in large quantities cheaply and easily and left to just get on with it once planted quickly and easily by machine?

    Anyway, who wants this site to ”rapidly evolve into something MUCH bigger’ Surely there are better sites to infiltrate with this topic.

    There, I’ve done my bit – 100 is still a way off!

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  • crash bandicoot says:

    Wow what a lively thread. I don’t normally follow the off topic stuff too much but I have one thought for you gardeniadotnet. Wasn’t the Irish potato famine caused because all of the plants were just grown from chopping up last year’s tubers and sticking them into the ground? Basically all of the plants were very closely related and so were prone to the same disease. Won’t you experience the same problem with cloning?

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >Nah! I don’t think I can run with this one

    Don’t worry, the baton change was a smooth one.

    p.doff said…surely your main problem will be the manpower requirement for the cutting, planting and nurturing …

    As I’ve said before, I’ve raised a quarter of a million. I’ve done this without any staff, just a little help from the few family and friends who believe in me (the rest suspect I’ve gone crazy).

    For the next stage ie up to 1 million, I’m asking for volunteers because I have, ahem, cashflow issues in the short term.

    G.

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  • crash bandicoot said…Basically all of the plants were very closely related and so were prone to the same disease. Won’t you experience the same problem with cloning?

    Yeah Ray, that did cross my mind as well

    (4 to go)

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    @ virtual_contributor said…

    >Volunteers? How naive! People will expect payment.

    To create publicity and more importantly, do some good, I’ve pledged to raise £1 million for Willowbrook Hospice by the third week in August.

    I hope this will encourage people to donate their time for free.

    G.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >Basically all of the plants were very closely related and so were prone to the same disease. Won’t you experience the same problem with cloning?

    This has troubled me more than a little over the last few months. I asked a professor of Agriculture to look into this for me, but I’ve had no feedback as yet.

    Anyway, the plants seem fine at present.

    As of now, the original plant is to be called Dolly.

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  • shipbuilder says:

    Well i’m taking the century…..

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    >p.doff said… >Why would it be better than mechanically planting seeds and harvesting in the usual way, when seeds can be obtained in large quantities cheaply and easily and left to just get on with it once planted quickly and easily by machine?

    First of all, I must point out that not all plants are suitable for cloning. For instance I would be interested to know if any cereal crops are eligible.

    Secondly, farming is traditionally based on one harvest per crop per year. If the biomass generated by my system is considered “the harvest” we are looking at one harvest every 2 weeks for some crops!

    It’s a bit like mowing the grass.

    G.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    @shipbuilder >Well i’m taking the century…..

    doh! the story of my life. Always the bridesmaid and never the bride.

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  • Gardeniadotnet says:

    Tonight, I have been mostly drinking Old Speckled Hen.

    Please bear this in mind when considering the merits of any of my subsequent posts on this thread.

    p.doff said >Anyway, who wants this site to ”rapidly evolve into something MUCH bigger’ Surely there are better sites to infiltrate with this topic.

    Name one. I’ve spent far more time on t’internet than is healthy for a young (at heart) man and I haven’t found a site that even comes close to HPC for its combination of shared knowledge, variety of ideas, viewpoints, tolerance, humour, etc. etc. etc.

    I can honestly say, without any sense of irony, that it’s one of the reasons I’m proud to be British.

    Visitors to this site are watching history in the making. As the Chinese say, May you live in interesting times.

    G.

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  • Can’t see you producing a crop of spuds or ripe tomatoes every 2 weeks. And as far as the lawn analogy is concerned, it would take considerably longer if one ‘harvested’ all the grass plants and had to re-sow the lawn each time.

    Anyway, you seem to know where you are going, so good luck.

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    Tonight, I have mostly been drinking Old Speckled Hen.

    Please bear this in mind when considering my subsequent posts on this thread.

    >p. doff said…Anyway, who wants this site to ”rapidly evolve into something MUCH bigger’ Surely there are better sites to infiltrate with this topic.

    Name one. I’ve spent far more time on t’internet than is appropriate for a young (at heart) man, yet I haven’t found a site that even comes close to this one for its content, variety of viewpoints, tolerance, humour, etc. etc. etc. In fact I can say, without any sense of irony, that it’s one of the reasons I am proud to be British.

    I feel privileged to be witnessing, in real time, a key chapter of world history being written before my very eyes.

    May you live in interesting times (Try considering these words as a blessing, not a curse).

    Ray Bishop
    Gardenia.net

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  • gardeniadotnet says:

    p. doff …>Can’t see you producing a crop of spuds or ripe tomatoes every 2 weeks

    In the UK, frost protection and artificial lighting would be required for at least 2 seasons of the year.

    We need to think globally.

    G.

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