Tuesday, April 1, 2008

Very funny cartoons

House Price Crash” (HPC) Website Mentality

House Price Crash (HPC) (www.housepricecrash.co.uk) is a pretty popular property website, which displays interesting statistical data. The forum is constantly active with hundreds of users. I’m even a member of the forum community myself, although I tend to keep under the radars, because “my kind” is frowned upon. “my kind”, as in someone that isn’t all about “the property crash”- we’re a minority in there. In case you haven’t guessed, the site consists of a rather large community that insist a property crash is coming; and they can’t bloody wait. Anyone that is opposed to the crash tends to get the hairdryer treatment by a barrage of…well, pretty immature, patronizing individuals. I have no qualms with conflicting opinions, but I’m a firm believer in tact and mutual respect.

Posted by sold 2 rent 1 @ 05:04 PM (2941 views)
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90 thoughts on “Very funny cartoons

  • I kindly invite the said individual to post his arguments for discussion.

    As an act of astonishing magnaminity we will politely ignore the 10 years where anybody who said house prices might go down (as they have every time before ) was told they were an idiot who was missing the boat (thats a polite translation).

    So much so that the professionals who were modelling the market seemed to incorporate this into their activities…

    The invitation is open:

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  • Excellent link !

    We’re obviously touching a nerve down at propertyinvestmentproject. Why do you think they’ve been visiting our site ? Maybe they’ve got a bit more time on their hands these days.

    From the article :
    ‘The fact that a crash might not occur is simply beyond their comprehension. It’s pretty odd how people can be so ignorant towards possibilities’.

    Err.. It’s pretty odd how a crash occurring was beyond the masses comprehension, despite the repeated lessons of history.

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  • or her

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  • “This is a normal 1-on-1 conversation in the HPC world:
    Person 1: Hey, what do you think of the current property market? I think there’s going to be a crash…
    Person 2: Yeah, i’ve heard a lot of people say that. But I think the market will sustain, and perhaps ripple up and down..Oh well. What you up to?
    Person 1: F*ck you, you dumb piece of shit. F*ck you A lot. F*cker.”
    “The place is full with slightly mad people”, “just weird kind of mad”, comments include from Jason “that site is full of pyschos”.

    I guess to attract this kind of interest from a VI group people’s comments must be getting to them and hitting them where it hurts – their wallets! And notice that this cartoon post goes back to Oct 14 ’07 – wonder how they all feel now?!? Are we still behaving childishly, aggressively and rude? I don’t think so. But good luck to you all – propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk, and I mean that sincerely.

    And apologies for the overt profanity above, but I am only quoting their site – nice eh? Well at least I was but this site wont let you!!

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  • im a bit confused really, because i dont think we can post the F-word so in that respect alone this is just plain wrong. [now trying to post that in it – didnt work]

    “Anyone that is opposed to the crash tends to get the hairdryer treatment by a barrage of…well, pretty immature, patronizing individuals. I have no qualms with conflicting opinions, but I’m a firm believer in tact and mutual respect. A lot of the members remind me religious-radicalists; there’s no room for compromise, “we’re right, you’re wrong, so f**k you”

    well thats really not how it is or how i have found it, its good the guy has posted a link then people can make up their own mind.

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  • Obviously this site is abit biased (there’s a clue in the title) but I think people are generally tolerant of a range of views.
    The problem is that the optimists don’t have anything substantial to base their arguments on, and they are too busy making loads of money to engage in pointless debate about price crashes. Until now that is.

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  • He’s absolutely… right. He doesn’t even mention the real loons. S2R1, Cornishman, I’m looking at you…

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  • Somebody’s getting desperate – this is the second ”shoot the messenger” post today.

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  • I never have the time to visit the forums, I only visit the News Blog items (but nevertheless am always impressed by the generally very reasoned arguments to be found there) but maybe there’s a more hardcore element found on the forums???

    Regardless, the sheeple have been fattened for market and are now heading to slaughter. No-one on this site encouraged them in their folly, infact it could be argued we were the only sane ones trying to help them avoid their fate. They’re bitter, of course they are. Tough. I’m not going to lose sleep because some mugs are going to blame economic calamity on a tiny number of people who visit a blog because they’ve seen through the VI bullsh*t.

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  • Cyril, you are right. I have WANTED (and still want) someone to come on here with a divergent view and explain to me WHY they think propety prices will increase or stay the same without falling. To date no one has convinced me, to the extent that people have posted bullish views havent people on this site merely questioned those views and asked follow up questions which the bulls then respond with “losers” etc. I am looking forward to seeing the Bulls come back when we have the B wave.

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  • just sent him the following:

    Errmmmmm…. not sure of the accuracy of your web page here:

    http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/2007/10/14/house-price-crash-hpc-website-mentality/

    given the fact that it is not actually possible to post those words on HPC, and although it may have seemed like a prudent thing to advertise in October, maybe to avoid people laughing at you it might be an idea not to be so abusive given that the uk has just experienced its 6th month of consecutive house price falls and the US is in dire straits. Maybe you could just retitle your site to “Documenting one man’s journey to losing a million by leveraging through property”

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  • planning4acrash says:

    What we do, is read reports, and delve into the truths and untruths within them. We ask the sort of questions encouraged by scholarship, like, who wrote it, what is their vested interest, where is the evidence. Unquestioned orthodoxy is fought, thats all.

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  • I’m a newb on HPC, but I would say that in the short while I’ve been on there I’ve read several less than polite posts, generally against non-believers. None directed at me I’ll hasten to add, but that is what you find on forums everywhere. Most people seem able to contain their excitement at the impending HPC, however a few seem to be over-tired having waited patiently for so long for it all to kick off that they are forgetting their manners…

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  • japanese uncle says:

    If they are confident that there won’t be any crash, they can just calmly ignore this site. The fact is they may well be extremely scared about the potential 70% drop which could demolish their career into pieces. What I can suggest to them is they rehabilitate to become a reborn person and take up any job that is not as tricky as real estate job. The coming crash provides a great opportunity for such reformation. Amen.

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  • This is great – check out their blog:

    http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=580.0

    and check out the brilliant advice that budding property millionnaires can gain:

    “I like to put my foot out of the bed a feel around for my slipper in the dark”

    LOL!!!

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  • I suppose we have to accept that there are going to be a large number of very angry, bitter individuals out there, who have lost a packet with their failed BTL or property investment gamble, and are looking for someone to blame for the situation they got themselves into. With the threat of their own homes being repossessed because of their greed, they are likely to thrash out at the easy targets – now that the developers/surveyors/EAs that conned them into that BTL have scarpered.

    As the crash continues, no doubt we will be sitting on the sidelines (drink and snacks in hand) and calmly watching events unfold, but us ‘doom-mongers’ (aka realists) will be in for a bit of stick from many quarters and probably held to blame by those (like Krusty and Phil) who wish to wash their hands of their part in this bubble. Popcorn anyone?

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  • As the said individual has not revealed their identity it is hard to know how they may have been treated. However, over the years there have been some utter halfwits posting on here along with some pretty smug, deluded [email protected]
    Back in 2006 when HPI should of been buried, yet was rampant, I guess it was pretty easy to touch a nerve and reap the abuse!

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  • Since my family and I (mutual decision) – sold our house two years ago and decided to rent and batten down the financial hatches – we have been treated like lepers by my relatives….’nothing safer than bricks n mortor’ brigade, ‘renting is lost money…’, etc. Still – my rent has not gone up (or down), I have money in the bank, and all my debts paid off…..and now wait for sensible prices to return after the waves of excess receed!

    Even though HPC obviously caused the credit crunch, etc, …..please keep up the good work.

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  • I didn’t find it particularly funny until I scrolled down to the bottom of the page:

    “I initially started this website as a complete property idiot; the plan was to document my every step from property idiot to property landlord (mission accomplished), in hope that people would find my site and help me along the way (they did!). Read about my journey from A-B in my Property Diary and read more About Me and the project. This project started 505 days ago, and due to the popularity of this website, it’s just kept going, going and going; it’s evolved into a useful area for property enthusiasts that like to learn and share.”

    505 days ago.. HEHEHEHE. Top of the market?

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  • I suspect the author came onto HPC, posted something equivalent to “there will be no crash simply because of supply issues”, refused to listen to anyone pointing out the error in his arguement and was eventually called an idiot due to his inability of unwillingness to apply new information to his thought process!

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  • Dare I say it? Oh what the hell, “…my every step from property idiot to property landlord to property bankruptee….”

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  • All rather amusing – if not a tad sad…

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  • “This (property website) project started 505 days ago, and due to the popularity of this website, it’s just kept going, going and going; it’s evolved into a useful area for property enthusiasts that like to learn and share.”

    They must mean commiserate and discuss whether to take steps towards declaring bankruptcy or not?

    The credit crunch was long signalled on this site. So were the poor economic returns for BtL. There is no point in blaming us when things turned out as predicted. Have a good look at the hompage – in particular the House Price predictions (and history).

    We are documenting respected opinions, I think.

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  • Well,

    Greenbay? Perhaps?

    Mind you I do think I am fairly well balanced (as a lawyer, assuming they can be balanced of course).

    I thought Krusty on the Telegraph Blog (I do think it probably was she) on the David Harrison Article on Sunday was a bit raving and paranoid but there we are. I also thought the blooger who referred to her as tear stained mascara directing the traffic around her at 4am was VERY funny. There will plenty more as this unfolds (probably over the next 12 years whilst morgagees pursue them through the limitation period for negative equity).

    It does seem however that you lot are now touching a nerve. I do hope my taxes won’t be going to propping up this mess or paying off those whose fingers are likely to be badly burnt (which concerning the reaction looks like our mutual friend).

    Still food for thought when the very (apparently) enemy are advertising this site. One would have thought they wanted to keep it low profile… We have seen what happened with a mass panic at the Crock (and very nearly latterly HBOS)…

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  • They have got a point!!

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  • Landedgentry says:

    Surprised all you dudes never heard of this character. He has been dissing HPC since last year!

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  • It’s here at last and here to stay,
    the property crash will make bankers and estate agents rue they day
    they encouraged borrowers to exaggerate their earnings and lie
    so the flats and houses could be theirs to buy
    but 6,7 and 8 times earnings is unwise
    this was the reason prices would rise
    but freefall is here not a parachute in sight
    the credit has stopped and finance is tight
    the sad thing is repossessions will rise with no where to live and no safety net
    the government is to blame for encouraging the debt
    the good thing is first time buyers will afford a nice place tomorrow
    thanks to the rest that were in the rat race and encouraged to over borrow.

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  • Expect a lot more of these articles as the VI’s portfolios start taking further hits. Definately a case of in denial from this greedy lot, I was laughed at and ridiculed in my office for months. Although I am not one to say I told you so, I am finding it rather difficult to keep a straight face these days……

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  • little professor says:

    To be fair, this one did raise a smile:

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  • I remember when this happened with some rightmove stats!! Cant have it both ways fellas! Remove your bias and then see a clearer picture!! Also, becareful what you wish for. Capitalism albeit a bit crap, is the best of a very bad bunch.

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  • @little professor
    @pecker

    Yes, the cartoon is good and does have a valid point.

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  • The cartoon is fundamentaly wrong. Rightmove will never publish a negative figure. Never I tell ya.

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  • All I can say is:

    Why all over a sudden are people having a pop at this site!!?!

    Sour grapes maybe??!! MUAHAHA

    REALITY: Ive been reading articles on this site for months, ever since last summer when i was about to buy (im a FTB). After studying your articles/opinions in depth and without bias, I took the decision to rent and wait. Thank god i found this site, it has saved me thousands of pounds already and stopped me from attaching a huge mortgage burden around my neck, which would have financially crippled me for YEARS.

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  • Definitely April 1st today. Is it a full moon as well ?

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  • “Yes, the cartoon is good and does have a valid point.”

    Maybe, but the use of the F-word is a deliberate attempt to portray HPCers as an unthinking mob who don’t disagree with one another and who don’t enter into debate. NOTHING could be further from the truth – which, IMHO, is what makes the site worth visiting. We’re likely to attract a lot of flack and anger as the crash gathers pace. This cartoon seem a tad angry to me.

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  • new user 2007 says:

    I I have no doubt that the market will go up in the long term (in real terms). I merely suggest that it does not go up in isolation and without falls along the way. It needs high inflation and wages to match so that people who buy in year t will see 1) the debt deflated away and 2) wages rising to ensure general affordability improves and efforts to move up the ladder can be made.

    What has happened over the last 8 years has been a continued nominal rise along the long run average BUT with no corresponding high wage and inflation rises (inflation has been lower in the last 10 years than it was from 1952 i.e. the “long run nominal house price average index from the Nationwide”, even if inflation is admittedly higher than the official numbers suggest.

    This is why the ratios are on scales never seen before. They are clearly unsustainable. There is also too much evidence along both time series (the UK housing market for hundreds of years) and cross-sectional data (US, Japan, Spain, Ireland) to suggest this is some new paradigm. If prices had risen just in the South east there could be some support for the idea of shortages driving prices BUT…

    …prices went up everywhere i.e. Ireland and the US, North of England…VIs there were saying shortages to justify price growth there too. This supports the idea that it was all excess credit driven. What gets me is that people here are ridiculed for analysing numbers and history. The optimists rely simply on a “this time it is different, best case scenario”.

    Why is it hard to believe the evidence of history and other countries, as well as the IMF and non-VI economists, but so easy to believe that house prices and debt can rise to infinity (that is the only way optimists can be proved right that there can be no correction of 25%). So does it come down to if it is more realistic to assume that debt can rise to infinity OR that prices can fall by 25%?

    As for nominal prices remaining stable but real prices falling fixing everything…will BTL (the new factor in this) really stay in such a scenario?…particularly as the ratios are so far off that a return to equilibrium without large nominal falls will take years to reach. Will immigrants really stay as the economy slows? Etc etc

    However, we have had the “return to school period” bounce that never happened, we have had the “post-Xmas bounce period” that never happened and the “Spring easter bounce period” has just started. Will it happen? We will all know in May where the market is going, so lets not fall to the level of VIs. If the credit cycle miraculously recovers the BTL will be correct for another year. If not, then people here will be:)

    p.s. people here and on VI sites (the BTL and landlord sites are a lot scarier than here just because they are all incredibly unbalanced stories that many BTL obviously believe) are all guilty of playing with the monthly statistics. But that is why trends and moving averages are so important. They remove the need to pounce on a single number.

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  • There’s no question, he’s got us on the Rightmove cartoon. We all do that.

    But I agree with other posters – he’s wrong about the general attitude shown to intelligent HPI bulls on this site. Cretins like greenbay and glorious sunshine bring rudeness and discourtesy to the forums, and are given the scorn they deserve, but people advancing honest arguments tend to be listened to and talked to. Yes, the likelihood is most people here aren’t going to agree with them, but the clue’s in the site name there.

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  • Is a HPC really worth talking about? Afterall, whatever will be will be… seems like youre all wasting time..like I am writing this message to people I dont know…

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  • it_is_going_with_a_bang says:

    You know when people are really believing that there number is up – when they start posting like that.

    Quite fun to red.
    What on earth would he expect going to HPC ? In principle.
    What would he expect going to Rightmove / Nationwide or Abbey?

    It’s called a different perspective. Which quite clearly – despite his effort to say otherwise – he does not have.
    LOL at having a website called “http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/”

    And I would say the only thing I am likely to swear at is the Donation link to him personally.
    That clearly will get the finger treatment on principle. The rude little deluded sad F git. LoL. ( joke …. ) 🙂

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  • it_is_going_with_a_bang says:

    Or funny to read even …..

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  • Charlie Brooker. says:

    Really, the language! It’s thoroughly disgusting!

    I had to wipe my screen after seeing that.

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  • “The place is full with slightly mad people, to say the least. Not a dangerous kind of mad, just weird kind of mad. The fact that a crash might not occur is simply beyond their comprehension. It’s pretty odd how people can be so ignorant towards possibilities. I don’t think there will be a crash per’se, but I wouldn’t laugh or disrespect anyone who thinks there is going to be one”.

    LOL. Great stuff – then you do anyway. But, but, but … hang on – going to be one? Er … one already started geez – about 14 months ago!

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  • @Pecker

    “I am writing this message to people I dont know…”

    It’s your choice. Nobody compelled you to come here. Some of us like to contribute. Some don’t. I think most just scan the blog for interesting/useful titbits of information.

    “whatever will be will be… seems like youre all wasting time..”

    Personally, I have found this site informative. The “whatever will be will be…” philosophy is going to cost some recent house buyers a lot of money.

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  • To pinch a quote…… ‘I sit on the edge of all this indulgence….taking notes and trusting in prudence’.

    This is where I’ve been sitting for a few years now and I’m beginning to feel somewhat vindicated. Anyone care to join me?

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  • Denial.. Fear.. Anger.. Acceptance
    You are Here….^

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  • 41. pecker said…

    Is a HPC really worth talking about? Afterall, whatever will be will be… seems like youre all wasting time..like I am writing this message to people I dont know…

    — So why bother posting it? I’ve firmly set aside all bias and am open to hearing about the bigger picture – what have you got, beyond the vague platitude of que sera sera?

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  • the site was started 505 days ago, and prices have fallen for 6 consecutive months. With all the fees associated with buying and selling I’d say that it was probably too late for pecker (if that is who runs the site) to make any kind of profit. He is probably too indebted to be able to sell the properties at less than he paid for them, so I guess there’s nothing for him to do now but sit back and cry at his continuing losses (assuming of course that prices continue to go down).

    Pecker – how much money have you got in the bank? A million? No? Well at best then you can only be a paper millionaire. That could all disappear very very quickly. Good luck. You need it.

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  • Charlie Brooker says:

    Look at the comments beneath the cartoons on that website.

    Apparently Rij has invested in a BLT.

    It looks like he’s had his chips too – with a side order of sour grapes.

    Hard cheese, old chap.

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  • theboltonfury says:

    bring on these fools.They give our united cause publicity. If people read what we say, they may find we’ve saved them a lot of money.

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  • The point I think posters miss on this board is that we’re pretty much all in this together. Becareful not to get conditioned as someone that just moans about a HPC. When it comes and then surely goes you’ll be conditioned to just moan, possibly ending up like Sold 2 Rent 1 (i.e. borderline fruitloop) What im trying to say if that there is a damaging effect to reading these posts EVERY day that go sends… many are effectivly duplicated anyway. House prices fall 0.5%, next month they fall .2% etc etc. Get the picture!! You all got it right! Well done, not quickley pat yourself on the back and get on with your lives…. or… continue reading negative posts/articles that will make you feel bad regardless of whether they are accurate or not. Confused76s laugh becomes more manic by the day, you find it funny but its plainly disturbing… nothing funny is happening here… “Greedy” BTLers will lose money go bankrupt!! Big deal! The next generation will find another asset class to exploit.. Big deal!! Ask yourself if your prepared to moan for ALL of your life.. coz bubbles and greedy idiots arnt going anywhere….

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  • it_is_going_with_a_bang says:

    @Pecker.
    Do you only think it worth talking, sorry communicating, with people you only ever meet in person. Well at least until the huge Knees up. Dam I’m sure someone out there will persecute me for saying that ! 😉

    “Knowledge is power. Information is power. The secreting or hoarding of knowledge or information may be an act of tyranny camouflaged as humility.”

    … Knowledge you obtain through education…so…

    “Education is a human right with immense power to transform. On its foundation rest the cornerstones of freedom, democracy and sustainable human development.”

    Kofi Annan

    This site is merely education in my opinion. It’s a basic human right! even Kofi thinks so! ….

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  • “This site is merely education in my opinion”

    Thats garbage… go to college if you want educating! This site if for insecure people stroking each others tummies!! There there, im sure the crash is unfolding!! Feel better?? Probably not.. Do you know why? Because when the market crashes nothing of any real substance will change.. nothing is new under the sun.. the sooner you realise this the sooner you can live your life rather than wishing for irrelevant events… I absolutely guarentee in 5 years when house prices are materially lower you wont feel any better…. its not houses that make you bitter…

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  • crash bandicoot says:

    Wow pecker what’s up dude? Are you asking us not to blog because we’re being too rude? Or because we are going to make ourselves ill? Or because you don’t like what we’re saying? Well don’t worry about us mate we’ll be fine, there’s plenty of others in front of us in the queue for sympathy.

    On the other hand S2R1 you are being kind of quiet on this one. Is Pecker your alter-ego? Is this part of the information war? Top find whatever way it is! What fun!

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  • Ah! You should have been around in 2004! The discussions were good, we were visionaries and contrarians, we had our little property emperor and we all had polite relevent “agree to disagree” discussions. We were right, but then we underestimated how stupid the banks would get and therefore got it wrong. Then we got popular, and the intelliegence of the posts, tended to go down hill. Not been a regular for a couple of years now. Far too many posts to read it all any more. But I do get the feeling it is generally more offensive than it used to be, on both sides. Shame really. but the good news is, turns out we were right after all, it is possible or property prices to get too high and crash!!

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  • it_is_going_with_a_bang says:

    Actually Pecker you are wrong. When you get to 40 will it be school that educated your opinions and actions? Or the experience and information to you have taken in since then.
    If it’s college or school then I can understand your apparent frustration.
    Feel better? Yes I do suprisingly.
    🙂 there u go ! happier than u it would seem!!!!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    That’s right people, now, take a deep breath,,,,, ,,,,,, and relax.

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  • Seems people are worried now that the inevitable is drawing closer.

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  • Im simply saying on a philosophical level.. all this is a load of garbage and you dont need to worry/fret about it. Let me put it another way.. What happens if you dont read all these articles winding yourself up??? For new buyers, they should borrow what they can afford on a house they like… dont need a lot of information to work that one out… not really sure I need to add anything further.. pretty simple stuff… Waiting for other people to go bankrupt and then laughing about it doesnt really seem very nice! But by all means carry on.. and end up with an empty husk for a soul…

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  • crash bandicoot says:

    At what sort of philisophical level is worrying about other people winding themselves up? Thanks for your concern my friend but I will continue nonetheless. My soul is totally shot now anyway so the only gratification that I have in life is pulling the legs off spiders and laughing at bankrupt property investors, and you’ll never take the spiders away from me.

    Incidentally, how much did you borrow and what is your portfolio now worth? Does that have an impact upon your views?

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  • Narrowescape says:

    Gandhi: “First they ignore us, then they laugh at us, then they fight us, then we win”

    I wonder where we are now ?

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  • mark wadsworth says:

    Fellow HPC-ers, history will prove us right!

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  • Perhaps it would be a surprise to know that im a would be first time buyer… but please feel free to assume im an evil btler… It seems there was more than a little substance to this article… this is a cult which serves little/no purpose… well done!!

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  • “Fellow HPC-ers, history will prove us right!”

    Then what???? Oh the glory of being right! Hopefully there will be an asset bubble in Turnips by then that you can all moan about for another 10 years…

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    James,

    “He’s absolutely… right. He doesn’t even mention the real loons. S2R1, Cornishman, I’m looking at you…”

    I didn’t know you could operate my webcam remotely. Must get that loophole closed.

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  • waiting for the crash says:

    I found this site very useful, its providing a consolidated view of the current turbulence in the money and property markets and its a discussion forum, bringing in all views. This site is coming into its own now, I will one day be looking to buy a home (home not investment) along with propertysnake.co.uk this site is well worth a read to find out whats is being discussed/happening in relation to property. Its also very good to read a different opinion occasionally and base decisions on all view-points not just that those of VI’s otherwise people begin to believe their own hype. I must admit I do like some property porn now and then – but ‘Homes under the Hammer’ should be regulated by the FSA.

    Unfortunately people have borrowed MORE than they can afford, driven by VI’s, bankers, governements and its going to leave people poorer for now and for a long time to come, but not the bankers or governments. People have based their actions on so little information, if they had read sites like this they may have been more considered in their approach.

    Our souls are quite full thank you.

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  • I repeat, you can borrow a sensible amount to buy a property that you like. If prices are too high this becomes impossible.. if they fall it becomes possible… not rocket not, not necessary to worry/fret/moan about all this… its an indulgence that will make you feel bad… Fine, not acknowledge that it winds you up, stick your heads in the sand (something you all accuse BTLers etc of)

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  • Pecker,

    Your comments seem rather odd in some ways. You think we shouldn’t spend so much time on this iste because it’s bad for us. Maybe I will take a break because the news is getting a bit boring anyway.

    “not necessary to worry/fret/moan about all this”

    We should just quietly ignore the fact that we have been priced out of buying our won living space by one of the biggest asset bubbles in history! Your advice would make perfect sense if it related to tulips (or turnips) but not something so important to day-to-day living and rubbed in out face by years of property porn and peer pressure to join the great Ponzi scheme.

    Houses aren’t like South Sea Company shares or tulips – you just can’t ignore them. Thanks for the input and good luck with your future property aspirations but if I want further advice about my mental health, I’ll ask for it.

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  • Sittingitout says:

    @pecker – I’ve just read the comments and it appears to me that you’re the only one fretting here – could it be because you’ve recently bought a property that’s now worth less?

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  • Pecker, Good advice and, as you say, not rocket. But that is exactly the view the most of the posters on this site are giving. However, as a potential FTB, how often have you been given that advice by the ‘professionals’. Everyone has probably been laughing at you for the last year for not having bought a house already. Prices are too high and so it should have been impossibe to buy but many people seem to have managed it! (with the kind help of their banks).

    Don’t underestimate how important this is going to be for many people.

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  • waiting for the crash says:

    It will make me feel good to have a mortgage at a realistic ratio to my salary, that I can afford to repay, yes repay – a word sadly absent in the last few years. Its knowing when the bottom has been reached as the right time to buy and not overpay. That will make me very happy.

    Also a lot of people who post on here show a concern for society, how much debt people have been encourgaed to borrow, how this will hurt and the fact that no-one will be held responsible for encouraging people to over-borrow. This consistutes a political debate, which is good as debate about society is not really happening to any degree in the press, nor discussed by many politicians who matter and with political debate being drowned by modern media since NULabour has been in power, this provides a forum for that scary thing called debate.

    I think you fear debate. What an empty mind.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    Pecker,

    “possibly ending up like Sold 2 Rent 1 (i.e. borderline fruitloop)”

    Thank God I am only borderline and not absolute.
    Please tell me what I have to do to get promotion.

    Serously though, just because you don’t understand my analysis, concepts and models, you have to start calling me names.
    If you don’t understand then ask me to explain them better.

    “I absolutely guarentee in 5 years when house prices are materially lower you wont feel any better”

    At least when I try and predict how events will play out I am following various cyclical models.
    You are just speculating in an almost random manner. How can you guarantee anything?

    I can agree with you on the way the cartoons portay us is very life-like.
    I showed the Mrs and she agreed totally.

    Personally, the cartoons make me belly laugh evertime I look at them.

    I regularly put forward HPC ideas that don’t meet with the HPC normal view and I get assulted bigtime.
    This is why I always push the boundaries.

    If the boundaries are not pushed then the consensus is continually reinforced and no new ideas are let in to a closed group.

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  • Its not debate, its tummy stroking and thats useless or its moaning and thats bad for you.. either was..little point! Isnt this a debate anyway??

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  • Sold My Soul To The Never Never Never says:

    I joined this website around June last year and it has been an education. I only wish that the information age (the internet) had been around 20 years ago then I would not have been caught up in the last house price crash which has still left me scarred. Hence when this next boom started instead of rushing out to get as much cheap debt as possible I overpaid the mortgage while it was cheap to do so and it is now fully paid off.

    When this credit crunch eventually draws to its conclusion I can see us still having lower interest rates but people will be more wary with their debt and they too will want to get rid of it as soon as they can.

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  • Pecker
    “I absolutely guarentee in 5 years when house prices are materially lower you wont feel any better….”

    What are you on about?

    does anyone know what pecker’s point is?

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  • it_is_going_with_a_bang says:

    Oh jeez.
    Really, does anyone really need to explain why they may be posting ( on a philosophical level … ) on a site called housepricecrash?
    I mean really.

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  • new user 2007 says:

    Pecker is being philoposophical.

    We should all stop on here as what will be will be.

    People discussing ideas is as old as civilisation. Perhaps in his world people would not be allowed to think?

    This site also provides an interesting conduit to maintsream media where comments can be placed.

    Would you rather FTB just let the likes of ASSetz sell themselves to eternity and everyone else just waits?

    It is rare to have someone who does not have a point, so well done on that.

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  • I’ve just figured it out. This site has been infiltrated by NWO activists who post rediculous rubbish in order to set bloggers against one another to further discredit this site (divide and conquer perhaps). This seems to be succeeding as the references to HPC submitted out there are becoming extremely derogatory. I also suspect that some bloggers on this site are multiple posting under different names in order to stir up the action in a particular direction to further their own ends.

    When I first discovered this website shortly after it started, I found it provided a useful source of property related information, plus a diversion at work during my tea breaks which provided a few laughs and helped relieve the tension. I don’t recall all the nonsense and insults that now abound. It seems that many informed contributors become disillusioned, give up and move on, whereas the nutty brigade seem to attract more nutters – birds of a feather style – who feed off each others conspiracy theories.

    I will continue to hang around for a while, as I think I can still learn a bit from this site, but some posters are definitely starting to spoil the enjoyment.

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  • Well hello everyone! I have been coming regularly to this site since circa 2003 and these cartoons are so funny I just had to add my 2 cents worth- so I’ve finally registered. Here are my thoughts..

    You do get the impression that anyone seeking to make a profit (BTL) out of housing is frowned upon (major understatement) at HPC. Despite understanding people’s growing frustration with getting a foothold on the housing market, I find this difficult to understand- it’s a bit like Saint Bob throwing all his toys out of the pram over ebay reselling tickets to his latest save all of Africa concert. People in a capitalist economy will always do what ever it takes to earn a crust, and as long as it is lawful, it seems churlish to bemoan the fact that, due in large part to an accident of demographics, you aren’t sitting on an immense portfolio of flats or a comfy cushion of equity. Nonetheless it would be difficult to avoid a certain amount of schadenfreude at the current plight of BTL’s and, nowhere more so than here, at the housepricecrash mother lode.

    As to my situation, despite being bearish about the mid to longterm prospects of the housemarket, I bought the 2 bedroom flat I was previously renting 3 years ago, my landlord having decided to move to the Bahamas, nice. Although able to take out a 180k mortgage that seemed just plain crazy. Prior to buying the flat, I was gazumped on a more expensive 4 bedroom detached house. Thankyou evil gazumper, i think you did me a good turn..happy negative equity trails for you

    So why did am I a traitor to the HPC cause? Well If there is a 10% slump; my flat will drop less in real terms compared to more expensive properties. Buying a flat at a lower price relative to the market, I am being ripped off less than the even more price inflated semi and detached houses. I don’t have the hastle of being moved on my landlord. I have a 4 month old daughter and need a secure nest. I could decorate the place how I like. Over a lifetime how much do you earn? 1 million perhaps- more/less? Whatever. My point is over the long run the amount I over paid is fairly inconsequential. What is criminal is how high monthly mortgage payments stop you having fun. If Mr evil gazumperer hadnt gazumped me, there is no way I could have afforded to buy and run a Boxster for 3 years. People get way to hung up on what at the end of the day is a pile of bricks.

    My hopes for house market in the future? My mortgage loan is half the (current!) value of my flat. Pay down the loan bigtime over next 2 years. Then take out a manageable loan – upto 160k, and leapfrog a few rungs of the ladder- hopefully a lot more house for the money will be on offer circa 2010/11.

    So even though I am a owner -I say bring on the crash as I have less to lose at the moment and more to gain later on.

    As much as I do love checking out this site I would warn against crowing too much. Its taken a hell of a long time for this crash to materialise and those sitting on their hands waiting for prices to drop will have required the patience of saints. Finally If you predict something long enough, it is almost bound to eventually happen and the longer it takes, the less smart you appear. Bit like one of the crazy people who says the end is nigh for 30 years, until, eventually one day, he is proved right.

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  • This site was useful to me last year when the economics of buying a house seemed faulty, despite the hype encouraging people to buy property.

    I saw a mortgage broker this time last year to discuss financing for property. I have never bought property, so it seemed the sensible path to investigate.

    I explained to the broker that my work contract had ended a few months previously, and I was taking a sabbatical to investigate a few business ideas (nothing to do with property). I explained that I had no income, but had some savings.

    The broker offered me the possibilities of various mortgages, AND I would not need much deposit. He said he could find me mortgages with no deposit required so I could look for more than one BTL property.

    The broker told me that he used to sell pensions, but now concentrated on dealing in mortgages. For example, buy property with interest only repayments of £700, rent it out for £600 and pay £100 myself to clear the mortgage. This would be equivalent to £100 per month payment into a pension. Over a 20 year period property prices increase, and the capital appreciation for my pension pot.

    As a long term investment …. this makes sense.

    I showed the broker MY analysis of the housing market over the next 20 years. I calculated decreases of 4% per year over the next 5 years, followed by steady increases over the remaining 15 years. He thought I was being too pessimistic as property prices always rise. The majority of article in the press and on TV supported the brokers view.

    A year ago, this site (HPC) provided links to BEARISH articles, but not mainstream or headline.. BUT, this site supported my calculations that property investment is not a sound investment. I did not buy a property.

    One year on …

    This site is providing links to ALL the UK and INTERNATIONAL headlines.
    The headlines agree that property prices will fall. We don’t know how far!!

    Thankyou to members of this site for posting interesting articles during the period that I have been visiting. Whilst the market was going wild this was an oasis of sound thinking.

    Now that “expert” opinion agrees with HPC, there is no reason to visit this site…. :-O

    I look forward to a HousePriceBoom site, that identifies sound economic reasons for house price rises (assuming that this could be 7 to 10 years away). At this point, I can look forward to having a property of my own, plus a BTL as part of my pension plan.

    In the meantime, I will work on my business ideas and hope to earn some money.

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  • Landedgentry says:

    I just want a house, ok maybe it has 8 bedrooms and a swimming pool, but a house goddamit!!! LOL

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  • crash bandicoot says:

    Pecker, of all the blogs available on the internet, covering some really despicable topics, you have chosen to come and preach morals on one that contains discussion about house prices. Keep up the good work mate. What’s next ,are you going to get the hup cap collectors forum banged to rights?

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  • pecker said…

    looks like another troll has surfaced……

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  • Lets be honest. He has a point.

    The “research” and “analysis” displayed here rubbishes anything bullish and praises anything bearish. All sense on objectivity goes out the window.

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  • The barrow boy of BTL

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  • Pecker – I honestly don’t understand the point you are trying to make. If we are all tummy-strokers (I don’t agree with this by the way) then where’s the harm? Why are you so annoyed by it? Why not just go to a different site? I really don’t understand, but now I’m afraid to ask you to elaborate because I fear it may start a debate or (God forbid) an informed discussion.

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  • new user 2007 says:

    Pecker

    It comes down to whether the credit cycle has returned to normal or not. If it has FTB will have a chance to get onto the housing ladder soon. If not, they will have to wait a bit longer.

    The basic idea of most people here is that this is a credit cycle issue rather than a housing shortage one. We will see very soon.

    Not sure what your point is at all. So VIs can say the same thing “supported by fundamentals etc” and get media coverage all the time, yet a site saying it is about credit cycles is being abused by your types.

    Most here are already happy with a crash so we are preaching to the converted, and the ones that do not agree will not until the evidence hits them in the face

    BUT does that mean this site does not provide ideas, or provide links to where VIs have said what I would consider bo**ocks?

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  • To celebrate my first comment posting that made it on to HPC……while this article runs I’ll submit another…..

    HPC collates (=collects for those who’s vocab is littered with F words)…..a good selection of daily news articles on the topics of housing, banking, world financials, etc, as well as the odd one with dubious relevance. Obviously from this HPC is a world media power if it can instigate all these articles, affect global markets, banking, etc…….’steal a nuclear device and hold the world to ransom for….one b i l l i o n dollars!……Muharrr Muharr muh muh Muharrrrrr’

    By the way – Newsnight last night was brilliant (if a little nasal by Mr Peston).

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  • Omg:

    I don’t think most of the commentators on this site automatically rubbish bullish reports. What they tend to rubbish is the kind of stuff we read from obvious VIs, like the BTL lending specialists, property “consultants” and their ilk, who can only offer what have become cliches – “strong fundamentals”, “housing shortage”, and so on.

    You may argue that regulars here have a vested interest in falling house prices, but I think most people support the idea of a stable and balanced economy, and house prices at current excesses are not part of such an economy.

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