Wednesday, April 23, 2008

RPI – 3.8%, CPI 2.5% Teacher pay rise 2.45%

8,000 schools could close in tomorrow's national teachers' strike

It is about time one of the Unions began to stand up for their members. It is shameful that the government have got away with delivering below inflation wage increases to the nurses and teachers to name but two. “Teachers’ pay has increased by 19 per cent in real terms since 1997............... But the NUT argues that with the retail price index running at 3.8 per cent, the 2.45 per cent settlement for next year represents a pay cut.” It is amazing that statistics about pay increases of 19% in 11 years is used as a stick to bash the NUT, but when you consider that HPI has been running at 180 - 270% it puts it into perspective. When will the media support the British People rather than protect the interests of an inept and deceitful government, headed by an unelected clown.

Posted by bystander @ 04:19 PM (1941 views)
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20 thoughts on “RPI – 3.8%, CPI 2.5% Teacher pay rise 2.45%

  • Brown is worse than a clown, as they don’t normally severely damage things.

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  • Bystander if you follow your logic through there would never be a bubble in anything. The reason there is a bubble is that HPI has been what its been. Are you seriously telling me that no teachers have participated in HPI? Civil servants have final salary index linked linked pensions (such the like that very few private sector employers can afford), I sorry but your pique is aimed at the wrong place. Its the GENERATIONAL devide that is the issue.

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  • “Are you seriously telling me that no teachers have participated in HPI?”

    …I don’t feel that this was inferred by my posting or comments, but I take it onboard that this HPI has been generational. I am a little confused by your comments regarding ‘never be a bubble in anything’, firstly would that be such a bad thing, secondly I don’t think my logic would lead me to such a conclusion. I am merely emphasising the lies and media manipulation which controls the masses while speculation and greed are allowed to flow (in the private sector and public/ private enterprises), or have been allowed to flow freely. Whenever a public sector worker, especially teaching or nurses go on strike the media, always interviews aggreived parents/patients and ladle on the guilt, and then to emphasise that they have had 19% increase in wages over 11 years, as if that is something to be proud of when the cost of living, and yes, the cost of buying a home has shot up. I would indeed be an ignorant sod, if I thought no BTLers are teachers, just look at those two ex-maths teachers in Kent, or that teachers haven’t enjoyed the increase in their properties worth, albeit mythical,but a fair wage under current circumstances is not much to ask. Wage aggreements have been based on the manipulated and fast becoming discreditted CPI and it is about time the Unions stood up for their members and confronted the government, as they have done in Germany and are doing in France. Final salary payments are a seperate issue and not one I brought up, but thanks for bringing that one to the table. It is true that public sector workers get final salary pension schemes, but these are fast being removed. So it won’t be long before everyone will have shitty pensions.
    …and Techieman I do know that most public sector teachers are able to get on the key workers scheme as well. So you can use that one to hit them with. I do not have an index linked pension and am not able to get on the key workers scheme, FYO. Hope this has cleared things up a bit.

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  • The government ‘bought’ the last general election by giving most public sector employees above inflation pay hikes, but without raising taxes sufficiently to cover the cost.

    Now they are finding out that there is no lasting pool of gratitude – it cuts no ice to say: ‘you had a large pay rise five years ago, so you can accept a small cut now’ – the public sector will not tolerate a pay cut or pay freeze, especially when their own living costs are rising by much more than the published inflation rate.

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  • There would never be a bubble because you would just inflate the salaries of people to keep up with the bubble – thereby destroying the currency (i apprciate your view that the govn are doing that in any case but its not a view i neccesarily totally concur with).

    I dont have a problem stating that the CPI is this or that or the RPI is this or that and that the numbers have been fudged etc, and that therefore people should get more pay. Its just those costs shouldnt be confused with the debt bubble. Now you may say that yes Mortgage Interest or House Prices should have been included in the RPI – thats a different issue and one which may have restricted the extent of the bubble. The argument is circular – pay the young people more but those that have benefited from HPI and those that are about to benefit from a big Final Salary scheme (and im not really fussed whether these are public or private sector – its just more prevalent in the Public Sector) make them pay more to society (eg tax, whether by income or e.g. deferred capital gains ) on a means tested basis. Forget this [email protected] they have paid all their lives into a pension scheme etc. They have paid superannuation in an inflationary environment which they are reaping the benefit of by being paid out by the tax drain supported by the next generation. I realise there will be people that dont agree with this at all, and thats fair enough, it is after all only a view.

    Now if they had defined contribution pensions, via their own and say a % from a reasonable employers contribution then fair enough. Otherwise you will find more and more of your council tax will be going to support pensioners. Now dont get me started on the public servants that pay themselves fat increases in their last 3 years of service to get the highest base average for their pensions. Re keyworker schemes – well forget that. The key is let the prices of houses drop to market forces then there will be no need for these rent-to-buy schemes or keyworker rubbish. Look what difference does it make what job a 22 year old has – if they cant afford to live near their work then make it easier for all of them whether they are teachers / tube workers / dustmen.

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  • techieman – Teachers are civil servants but not in the sense that they get paid for doing nothing. The article is right somebody needs to stand up to this government who need replacing, with somebody who will actualy look after the workers of this country.

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  • Bystander if you follow your logic through there would never be a bubble in anything. The reason there is a bubble is that HPI has been what its been.

    @techieman, HPI has been what it’s been due to mismanagement of the money supply. Bubbles are not a good thing and almost always have resulted in a slump and a recession. I could well do without that kind of excitement – I just don’t need it.

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  • hpw – you misunderstand my point. I’m not saying there should be a bubble im just saying that IF the response to credit created bubble is to increase peoples ability to pay for that “bubbled” asset then there would never be a bubble and there would be hyper-inflation. I was probably being a bit cheeky by sugesting that Bystander was saying something along the lines of give people more money so they can afford to live in a house (at a bubble price), but thats how i first read his post. Yes bubbles are a very bad thing – i have said before that most bubbles arent a problem (except for the people in them) if they are in asset classes that have little impact on the real economy – eg Silver, but when they are in HPs then there are extreme (as the peeps are learning now) extreme implications and potential probs for the economy at large.

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  • Teachers payrises in recent years, along with many other professional public servants have been excessive. £34,000pa for a classroom teacher 39 hour week with 14 weeks holiday a year is too much, except in London where the money is much more anyway.

    A couple of years below inflation rises is about right.

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  • I’m not saying there should be a bubble im just saying that IF the response to credit created bubble is to increase peoples ability to pay for that “bubbled” asset then there would never be a bubble and there would be hyper-inflation. I

    Yes, I get your point. In any event, it appears that we are in a mess. I’m just trying to avoid seeing my savings going down the pan, along with housing.

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  • Gold plated final salary pension, 13 weeks holiday, substantial pay increases compared to pay stagnation in the private sector over the last decade, fantastic job security, endless days off (inset days, polling days, heating broken, training, snowflakes, bad weather forecast, makeitupaswegoalong), in service training, no competition from minimum wage immigrants,….ah the list is endless.
    .
    Right children, make a list of all the jobs that offer this and write an essay on how a further 10% pay increase at the taxpayers expense is justified.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Baudot, the issue is not about what teachers are and are not worth. The issue is, that the government is artificially holding down wages by using core price index to target inflation, rather than retail price index, which is almost double that. Not only this, but they fail to respond at all to M3 money growth, i.e. the growth in printed money. Thus, a pay rise of 2.2% is a substantial paycut. Now, if you wish to say that they are already overpaid, which may or may not be a valid point, then it is a very different question than asking whether a paycut, shrouded as a payrise, is appropriate, given that the main reason for inflation is the boom in loans, many of which have ended up in real estate, and given that we have heaps of pipeline inflation to contend with, primarily as a result of money printed and used to bail out the banks who led to the inflationary boom in the first place. It is not only public jobs, but how many in the private sector are getting 4+% payrises to compensate for inflation? Well, some may even have to take nominal paycuts to avoid redundancy if unemployment in certain sectors keeps rising.

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  • @Buctootim – 39 hour week? You’ve obviously never known any teachers. 60-70 hour week is more the norm.

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  • I would love to give everyone on the public payroll, both at local and national level, a simple exercise –

    – explain, in no more than 200 words, why your job is important?

    Have the answers examined and rated by retired street-wise businessmen, and severely mark down anyone whose response appears to have been copied and pasted..

    ..then sack the 20% who have given the least convincing answers.

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  • Irrespective of terms and conditions of employment, if inflation is going up at (say) 4.5% and the pay rise is 2% lower, then it’s misery. Lots of public sector workers are in this position and this will have a small impact at the next local election, IMHO.

    I think RPI is understating inflation and by the way, I’m not working in the public sector.

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  • £30,148 after 6 years of service (the highest level without extra responsibility) for at least a 40 hour week of highly stressful work. And let’s not pretend these 14 weeks are all holiday…you are plainly wrong. Teachers need degrees for their jobs – these need to be repaid…is that cost in the CPI? Teachers aren’t fighting for a pay rise…just not to have a pay cut.

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  • “examined and rated by retired street-wise businessmen” @uncle tom

    …..why?? Is this the only section of society, that in your view has the right to decide who is worthy and who is not. This lot and their ilk have caused many of the bubbles we have had to deal with in the past and will do so again in the future. I for one would hate to think that my worth was being decided by a bunch of ‘street wise businessmen’, read: SHARKS. It amazes me how angry everyone gets about teachers in the media???? As Planning4acrash said this story was merely meant to highlight the use of CPI to award pay rises, and that the RPI should be used. The BBC this morning were bashing teachers as well. If everyone thought they could teach, then everyone would, but the working environment can, and mostly is lousy, your workforce (pupils) are difficult to motivate and extremely volatile, and getting worse with the encouragement of a media, parenting undercalss etc who hold teachers in contempt and education as a worthless waste of time, especially when they are constantly reminded, that Alan Sugar etc. the multi billionares, dropped out at 16 and hated school anyway. These are being portrayed as the norm, rather than the exception to the norm.

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  • it_is_going_with_a_bang says:

    Look, in every profession there are cowboys and lazy people. I’ve met some really good worthwhile teachers and some who quite frankly shouldn’t be teachers. But that is a completely different issue.
    The issue is, as has already been said, that one hand you have Gordon Brown Associates telling everyone inflation is 2.5% and then by our own experience it is much higher than that.
    Most projections for inflation even by Gordon Brown’s standards, indicate it will go a little higher. So anyone who is handed a 2.45% pay deal is probably going to be a little miffed.

    Personally I feel that Unions have taken a very soft approach with New Labour, one that I’m sure they would not have done with any other government. It’s about time they flexed their muscles and gave Gordon Brown a rough ride.

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  • Supermario – its really quite simple. We can assume 2 things – one that some teachers see this as a calling – in which case why strike? And 2 that they already KNOW what they are getting themselves into before they start their training. Without getting into the pros and cons its all about Supply and Demand – (and lets leave aside social implications). IF the govn dont pay enough then there will be less teachers and their “price” will increase. This is exactly what happened when we had a shortage. Bystander if i may say so – your point “If everyone thought they could teach, then everyone would” – is complete rubbish. If everyone thought they could teach AND WANTED TO given the terms and conditions then (maybe) everyone would , which would of course reduce the price of those teachers and decrease further their collective bargining. They get degrees yes, they go to teacher training yes BUT they know all of this dont they!! They even know (or should know) that in times of economic hardship (perhaps sadly) as memebers of the public sector they are likely to be a political football. The issue is unlike members of the private sector (where rights are continually discarded – although Ind, Tribun and TUPE etc legislation have indoubtedly had an impact on that) they basically have security of employment. That i’m afraid does come at a price!

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  • Kangarooviking says:

    Baudot – you really have done your homework… you certainly have hit the nail on the head as to all the perks of a teaching career. So, since you are so informed and such an authority of which I’m impressed, it puzzles me that you have not already enrolled yourself to undertake a teaching degree so that you can skim all this cream that the teachers apparently are enjoying. Hmmm… or maybe you already have? Or is it all just hot air?

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