Tuesday, February 5, 2008

Food for thought

Western Democracies Have Evolved Into Tyrannical Governments

The ruling class knows how to maintain stability. Keep the masses distracted, fearful, brainwashed, insecure, and dependent on government and business sectors for survival. Train people to see themselves as relatively free consumers. Maintain the myth that ordinary people can become wealthy and join the ruling class, which theoretically is not impossible, but of no statistical significance for the masses.

Posted by sold 2 rent 1 @ 09:38 AM (1589 views)
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35 thoughts on “Food for thought

  • Glad you’ve seen the light s2r1.

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  • george monsoon says:

    Don’t get me started.. just thinking about this, puts me off my food.
    The good news is, that we are AWARE of it, and thats half the battle won.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Phew. That’s a bit depressing!

    I totally agree that being frugal is a modern day radicalism in the consumer world and am actively trying to do that with my life! It is surprisingly hard work, opportunities arise wherever you go to pay for things. Even sex is charged and taxed with expensive contraception!

    Toally disagree with the not voting suggestion. You can always vote for a marginal who better meets your requirements better than the majors. You can always vote Green for example, or vote Lib Dem who seek voter reform. Even vote monstor raving loony party, at least this gives a message of some kind, that you are somebody who is willing to vote, but not for the status quo if it doesn’t meet your needs.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The biggest challenge with voting is to avoid being conditioned by the voting system. I often vote for a party that I don’t like, but that is better than the existing and the only one that could get voted in through first past the post. Yet I really want to vote Green, I did last time because no party properly campaigned on the issue, but didn’t. To ignore the system and vote for who you really want is also quite radical. All power to those in Brighton who almost have a Green MP, and to voters in Oxford City, who have the majority of the Country’s Green Councillors in their City Council, which is giving the Tory County Council a few bloody noses and stiring up some fascinating rivalry, for example, the County Council dropping parking fees for the County run car parks, whilst the City Council defiantly has taken the opposite view on the car-parks it owns and is more interested in public transport and cycling. We also have a rediculous stand off where the City wants to expand, but the Tories block it because this puts more power to the non-Tory city and prefer to expand their rural towns that have little in the way of employment opportunities, (causing more car borne commuting to Oxford City as a result). Just an example of a place where elections and politics can still be dynamic, interesting and where voting can be worthwhile.

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  • george monsoon says:

    er.. excuse me for saying this, but the above two comments show that you may have completely missed the point.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Ok, so what is your point? Are you suggesting that we all just give up and live in caves? Have you considered that the majority of these conspiracy theories install the very fear in people that the conspirators believe to be caused by the powers that be? Would not being freaked into non-participation and depressed acceptance, no vote, no involvement in community, no purchasing of anything actually do anything other than make our lives unworthwhile? So pray tell, what is your point?

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  • Planning4acrash said… “and the only one that could get voted in through first past the post.”

    P4AC, you are not trying to pick a winner. Democracy is not akin to betting on the horses. The idea is to vote for the party whose policies most suit your opinion. Collectively we all live with the outcome. If everyone who wanted to vote for the lib dems actually voted for them, they’d be in power. Instead everybody thinks “Oh, the lib dems won’t get in so I may as well vote Tory”

    WTF is that all about? You don’t get a prize for backing the winner.

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  • ”Western Democracies Have Evolved Into Tyrannical Governments”

    Absolutely…..and that’s exactly what the US has been trying to export – for many years – to other countries.

    They would rather a broken and wrecked Iraq than one which was largely self sufficient under SH; it was the descent of SH, which their egos just could not take.

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  • ”P4AC, you are not trying to pick a winner. Democracy is not akin to betting on the horses. The idea is to vote for the party whose policies most suit your opinion.”

    yes…but what about the folks in the background, who aren’t voted in and effectively control information and everything else….the government machine!

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  • Actually, if you really want to ‘fight the system’ the most radical thing you can do is to buy gold (when it’s a bit cheaper). Seems odd? Well have a look at:

    http://www.aynrandbookstore2.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HS24B

    http://www.amazon.com/Gold-Wars-Battle-Against-Perspective/dp/0971038007/ref=pd_sim_b_img_4

    and….

    http://www.amazon.com/What-Government-Money-Percent-Dollar/dp/0945466447/ref=pd_sim_b_img_1

    I recommend the last one, in particular.

    And just remember, Blair and Brown sold 60% of OUR gold mainly to private banking families when the price was at its lowest. Nice.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Sorry to sound confusing, I was suggesting not backing the winner, so I agree with the comments returned to me. I was saying that it can be tempted, given the existing voting system to vote for the winner or the runner up. I also agree that there is a problem with democracy, that people behind the scenes operate without any form of being voted in.

    The London Mayor brings in his own staff, unlike Westminster which has its permanent civil service, which is something of concern, because you never get an opposition civil service and opposition parties do not have the expertise to fully work up policies, etc. And it concerns me that there is no democratic voice inbetween elections. People should be able to bring in acts of parliament with enough petitions, including motions of non-confidence in such times as Iraq. Imagine if 100,000 petition votes were enough to trigger a national referendum on non-confidence in relation to Iraq? Hows about the nuclear question? Yes, poltics needs reform, and it is wholly about deficits in the voting system, gaps between elections, and the undemocratic nature of the civil service. Funding is also an issue, particularly in the USA.

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  • Sorry but this article is confused rubbish IMHO. He confuses freedom with wealth. Are the wealthy more free? You could easily argue the opposite if you consider the poorest like aborigines or forest people. So what is freedom? Hard to answer but consider the opposite, being in prison. Restricted actions and movement. I would say in the West we have historically unparalleled freedom to act and move and express ourselves like on this forum. Freedom of thought is more tricky because it takes hard work as an individual to free the mind, so the state has little to do with this except in schools.

    There is a lot the West is doing wrong but tyranny is not one of them. Perhaps the author should spend a bit more time in China, Russia or Zimbabwe before writing such nonsense.

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  • It is patent pseudo-intellectual rubbish – and there’s what seems to be a blatant lie at the end. The NYT and Washington Post websites have never heard of this guy.

    Again – “Only add articles from reputable sources (e.g. BBC, major newspapers, banks/building societies, government departments).” – s2r1, you and your sockpuppets continue to make this site look like a ship of fools. By the way, I’ll stake £10k today the global financial system still exists in 2013. Fancy it?

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  • The X Y Y Man says:

    Interesting article – but it misses what I believe to be a major factor in how we are controlled, namely drugs.

    From prescribed “medications”, to alcohol, dope, E’s, cocaine and heroin, almost everybody is on something.

    And the government claim to fight illegal drugs – but you can buy any of it in any town in the UK quite easily. The supply chain must rival that of ASDA and Tesco and that can only be because it is allowed to happen. No other reason makes any sense.

    It used to be said religion is the opium of the masses – well along with debt and the pursuit of cheap tat, getting wasted is the new Jesus.

    And a drugged-up, blinged-up and hard-up society is pretty easy to control.

    Now where’s me beer…

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  • It’s like S2R1 says, food for thought. I don’t believe the New World Order stuff, but I do believe the gist of the article – things are arranged the way they are not in a conscious way to opress the masses, but unconsciously because the rich and powerful are the ones who ‘make the rules’, and like any group have their own self-interests at heart.
    The challenge is not those in power, but the system itself needs to be changed. The most powerful influence is the idea that ‘it’s the way it is’ and things can’t be changed.
    Happyrenterz, I would say you’re missing the point a bit – in the countries you mention the tyrrany takes the form of opression, sometimes violent.
    In the west, it takes the form of subtle coersion, and censorship by simple omission of stories from the mainstream media, setting up an atmosphere of fear, greed etc.
    As such we still believe that we have freedom and in many cases will actually support the coersion becuase it feeds our own insecurities/fears/desires. The desired state is self-censorship and self policing, which now exists – right vs left, middle class hate of immigrants, the poor etc., all fed by media spin.
    This is much more powerful, stable and sustainable than violent opression.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    It is the banking system, the big corporations, the media and governments that together create this iron grip of power over the masses.

    The way forward will take its own natural path and will involve the destruction of exisiting systems and the formation of their replacements.

    We can see this with the internet/blogs/social networking sites replacing old style media platforms.
    The debt-based banking system is in its final stages of its long reign – its replacement has yet to emerge.
    The big corporations will fall when the economy turns down and the age of consumerism comes to and end.

    The governments will cling onto their power the longest but the collapse of the other 3 items will ensure the same result here.

    Timing is critical here as the last thing we want is another “Kenya”. We can only hope that the new systems get formed at a fast enough pace.

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  • george monsoon says:

    The point I was trying to make is that the majority of the population seem to feel that we have some control over who controls the countries infrastructure and how, which is naive and completely ficticious.
    (if anyone wanted evidence that we have no control, you could do much worse than monitor things from this website, i.e. Northern Rock, cheap credit, inflation.. )

    There IS a controlling elite in the world, but if all revolt and manage to overthrow them, what then? however they control is probably inbuilt into every financial institution in the world and to remove that control, may actually cause a kind of chaos, much on the same lines as Iraq after the deposition of Sadam.

    What angers me is the fact that I can do nothing to change the system and I am just a lab rat to be used and abused at their whim. That said, being aware of what is going on can sometimes give insight into the bigger picture on issues like Iraq or global inflation. I am convinced that what is happening in the financial world, however ilogical or irational it appears, is part of a much larger plan by the elite to control those parts of the world, that until now have been out of reach. When the stock markets of the world crash, they will be the winners. I know that I am probably being laughed at and in your minds, labeled a crank, but I am a sceptic by nature. With regard to the question “is there a global elite?” I would answer any intellignet person with “how else could the world run as it does now without them?”

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    shipbuilder,

    ” things are arranged the way they are not in a conscious way to opress the masses, but unconsciously because the rich and powerful are the ones who ‘make the rules’, and like any group have their own self-interests at heart”

    Spot on. It is the powerful elite that are conscious of what is going on in this control game.
    The masses are unconscious of this situation and think everything is fine. As the systems start to collapse the awareness in this arena will become greater and greater and eventually reach a tipping point when things change forevever.

    It is happening right here, right now, with this discussion.

    Welcome to Evolution
    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8689261981090121097
    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-567329528148516232

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  • S2R What makes you think the rich powerful elite are more conscious than the masses? I think the rich elite are trapped in the system more tightly than the poor because their self identity is more strongly wrapped up in their status within the system. i.e. they are mentally more enslaved than the poor. I disagree that anyone is in control, no evil designer of the system. Just people trying to get ahead, some more misguided than others.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Happyrenterz, I agree with that. What people need to understand, is that systems take on a life of their own. Molecules interact and form cells, which interact to form organisms, which interact to form societies. Chaos theory explains that any stable system (a whole made from a group of interrelated parts), is attracted to certain states, depending on bases of attraction that affect a system. Sometimes these attractors are multi-pointed, e.g. a pendulum that goes from one extreme to another periodically. The whole takes on a life of its own, but alter one part and the centre of attraction shifts. The fact is that there are many more people in the general public than there are in the power elite, so subtle changes in culture will have to be responded to by the elite. In essence, I am saying that we, the public, will be controlled by an elite until we are ready to make the shifts in knowledge and consciousness that draw the direction of the system to the conscious control of the people. So, you can’t change the system by fighting the elite, without destroying the system, as in Iraq, but can alter the system by becoming more aware and more able to control your own affairs. Things like becoming self sufficient and able to avoid supermarkets are small things that actually mean a lot. Understanding how media and politics manipulate and not following that lead. I mean, if all people understood the conditioning of advertising, it would not happen because people would be bombarding politicians whenever sex is used to sell shampoo and whenever subliminal messages were noticed by the public, there would be outrage and laws would change. All the conspiracies about reptilians and the illuminati and what not rather miss the point therefore.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    The powerful elites I am on about are the secretive types right at the very top.
    I am not on about the mega-rich types that appear in Hello magazine

    These super powerful elites have control over the cental banks like the Fed, which as we all should know by now, is a private bank.
    They have massive control over governments and the media.

    These elites go far back as the original Rothschild dynasty.
    They don’t want fame but absolute power and money.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    planning4acrash,

    good reply.

    “So, you can’t change the system by fighting the elite, without destroying the system, as in Iraq, but can alter the system by becoming more aware and more able to control your own affairs.”

    The double slit experiment proves consciousness exists at the sub-atomic level.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc

    If we change our consciousness then the systems will change radically.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Yes S2R, I know. But no system lasts for ever, and they know that the masses, properly informed, can overpower any “powerful” minority, simply by altering their behaviour. I’m not sure how, but the people will obtain a healthy balance of the power when the people are ready for it. In the meantime, the elite serve a purpose of providing stability to the sheeple. We still have wars, often driven by the elite, but historically speaking the world is becoming more peaceful. Yes, they maintain their grip on power, but any stable system is self-reinforcing, the same happens in bacterium cultures, the same happens in weather systems, it is the nature of systems to trend to stability. It is up to us, collectively to alter that and shift slowly to a more balanced equilibrium, where those in charge serve the people, not the other way round, the subtlety in that shift is the key to it, because the power elite will serve the people when they see it as being in their own interest, they already do damn it! Why else do we get healthcare and public transport. These things take time. In the meantime, do what you can to better yourself and your people and enjoy the blessed fruits of living in a country which provides such a wealth of opportunity. Defeatist talk about conspiracies is only saps your power and installs the very fear that sustains the self-serving elite. They love to play on that fear, so don’t let them! This is school ground psychology, the simplicity of it proves that resolution is closer than any of us think.

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  • P4C couldn’t agree more about our behaviour having a big effect. Not getting enslaved to this debt culture is another one. And I suppose that is where S2R and the author have a point because the Rothschild level rich do have some more say over the financial system than others. However, everyone needs to acknowledge their own responsibility if they choose to get sucked into the debt trap. We can’t blame the super rich for lending money to us to buy a house worth 50% more than any realistic value. I can’t see how the Rothschild’s are more responsible for this system than those who get themselves into debt. As P4C points out it is a huge machine with no one as the brain. And on a personal level, as I pointed out before, I think the super rich are enslaved more than we who choose to watch this huge pyramid money system destroy itself.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    planning4acrash,

    “the power elite will serve the people when they see it as being in their own interest,”

    Not so sure about this. They will fight to keep us enslaved in our debt-based banking system as they have for 250 years.

    If our collective consciousness can make the leap from knowledge to wisdom whilst these systems implode then we will have no need for a controlling elite. It is not going to be easy but evolution never was.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Yes, absolutely. To add to that, there are two things happening here. On the one hand, the banking system of the elite is fundamentally unstable, hence it cannot avoid depressions and recessions. So the pyramid falls in on itself periodically and the elite never achieve the complete domination they seek. The second thing that could be happening is that people refuse to partake in systems that do not serve them well, and alter their behaviour accordingly. Assembly’s at school were usually boring, but one stood out to this day. The head master told a story about a Chinese man who saved the emperors daughter. The emperor said the man could have anything he wanted. So he said, give me a chess board and a grain of rice on the first square, then double on the next and so on. It seemed rediculous so the emperor said, oh, ok! So, the first bit was easy and the emperor thought he had a bargain, my daughter for a couple grains of rice! Surely she’s worth more than that?! Then he got to the second row and he was beginning to have to bring in whole bags of rice, then cart loads, then he couldn’t fill the room. What was going on here? By the end of it the man had laid claim to three times China’s production of rice!

    So, the moral of that story is that stable multiplication is a powerful thing. Now, extrapolate that to learning between people, tell two people something in one day, they tell two people, there are only about 10 steps to cover a whole city, way less than 100 for the whole world to know, I think!! Now factor in the internet to that. My head teacher used the analogy to say that we should all do something nice each day, but it applies to anything.

    One other nice cliche, story or whateva, a guy walked bought a newspaper from a bloke each day for 10yrs and always smiled and said thank you. Another bloke, observing this said, why are you always nice to that man? He always scowls at you? The other guy said, oh, I like to be nice and do the right thing, and I sure as hell won’t let that other person’s behaviour turn me nasty.

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  • I think that there are many intelligent open-minded people reading and contributing to this forum. I would like to include myself in that statement.

    However, I cannot but help thinking that even with the opportunities to share this awareness that the internet brings to the people of the world, there are not enough people searching for this awareness to make any kind of difference in the forseeable future. I suspect we are a minority and will stay that way.

    Ever wondered if you could survive without money and supermarkets? Do you know how to build a dwelling for yourself, start a fire, and grow your own food? Are these questions as off-topic as they seem to be?

    I keep meaning to teach myself this kind of stuff.

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  • I remember there was a bumper sticker campaign that went something like “Commit random acts of kindness and senseless acts of generosity”.

    S2R this has been an interesting post and as I have been pointing out I strongly disagree with the idea that there is an elite who will fight to keep us enslaved or who ever meant to make us enslaved. In the end this is a matter of opinion and everyone has a right to one.

    To pick up on the point of evolution of consciousness. I agree that there is collective consciousness and this does evolve. But I think that it is the individual consciousness and its potential evolution that is more important and relevant to me. Can I become a more generous and wise person for example. I don’t want to wait for collective consciousness to change before making this possible for myself.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Money aint necessarily a bad thing and self sufficiency and buying locally doesn’t need to be an extreme affair, but not being able to cook, not being able to source stuff from local shops, etc. They are things that can change. Ethnic minorities manage it well so they have their comprehensive local shops in London with all they need. It doesn’t take much.

    Yer, the money thing. Maybe fiat currency will always be around? I think its the way its managed, the way that the public understand and use it and the way that the bankers are allowed to manipulate it. Thing is, if enough people ask the question, somebody somewhere will come up with the solution. Its probably the awareness of the fog and the asking of the question that is the most important bit, and you only need a critical mass of probably 5% of the population, actively seeking change to activate it.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    happyrenterz,

    “I agree that there is collective consciousness and this does evolve. But I think that it is the individual consciousness and its potential evolution that is more important and relevant to me”

    Our evolution is heading from an individual consciousness to a collective consciousness.

    What you pay attention to, you will become conscious of. Your intuition will eventually guide your actions.

    Think about how the consciousness of this website has evolved over the last 4 years. Things are starting to change fast. This discussion would not have happened 12 months ago.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Thanks guys, I feel a whole lot better with all that thinking out loud!

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  • sold 2 rent 1 The change of millenia have apparently always heralded a significant change of consciousness. However, foreseeing what that change will be is guess work. The relationship between collective and individual consciousness might be changing who knows. I certainly won’t be contributing to any changes of consciousness from individual to collective! I think the best moments of humanity are when an individual goes beyond collective consciousness and identifies injustice, error or ignorance etc which others took for granted. Individual should not be confused with selfish. By Individual I mean independent but fully aware of the needs of others and respecting them. If this is what is understood by “individual” I think we should encourage individual and discourage collective or herd mentality. But with these things it is important to define what one means by the words one uses.

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  • sold 2 rent 1 says:

    happyrenterz,

    I think you are confusing herd mentality with collective consciousness.

    The herd acts in a relatively unconscious manner. The herd are not aware.

    By contributing to this site you are adding to the collective consciousness of this site. I am not sure how long you have blogged here, but do you really think you could have learned everything you know now by “going it alone on the net” with no blogging, just one sided surfing. I know I couldn’t have achieved anything as much.

    Consciousness is defined as awareness of being aware.

    Collective consciousness must then be the awareness of the power of group awareness. The sooner we all realise this the faster we will get to where we are going.

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  • george monsoon says:

    I have to admit that some of the points I made earlier have been countered with more convincing arguments than my own.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Well George, I’m sure you’ll return the favour some time soon. I’ve been both sides in this blog and each time learn a hell of a lot. We all talk about houses, but the depth of the subject involves economics, psychology, here it is involving metaphysics! We discuss sociology, politics, you name it. So we come here to learn about when house prices will be affordable and our curiousity takes us somewhere else! Because at the end of the day all things are connected. As soon as you start asking questions and opening your ears, you get taken places you never thought possible.

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