Monday, August 20, 2007

Some mazing debt and bad lending stats contained within article

Debts mount for young homeowners

Young people under 24 who contact debt charity the Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) and owned their own home owed an average of £20,290 through credit cards, loans and overdraft, compared with £12,113 among those who were still renting.

Posted by enuii @ 08:26 PM (1674 views)
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57 thoughts on “Some mazing debt and bad lending stats contained within article

  • david20040_0 says:

    And the house they bought is rising over 1k a month so who is the mug really?

    You guys are so short sighted.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The fact that you bother to blog like this on a website that you don’t believe in reinforces my belief that David2004_0 is infact a fake name paid by vested interests to discredit the site. Why else would David spend so much time here?! Or is he really that bored?! I think not!

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  • david20040_0 says:

    I wish, then I could give up my low paid job.

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  • david20040_0 says:

    Look at it logically, the people who bought a house may have 10k more debt but the rising value of their house probably wiped that out, in one year!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    The fact that you bother to blog like this on a website that you don’t believe in reinforces my belief that David2004_0 is infact a fake name paid by vested interests to discredit the site. Why else would David spend so much time here?! Or is he really that bored?! I think not!

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  • Yorkshireman says:

    David – It makes no difference if the house price rises at £5k a month. The only way you can realise the supposed increase in value is to sell. This leaves you with the problem of having nowhere to live, unless you decide to rent or maybe even buy again on a “rising market”. Take into account all the expenses and you are back to square one or worse. Borrowing, particularly against the increase in the value of a house is a mugs game.

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  • david20040_0 says:

    I am that bothered because I want to buy a house.

    Just because I often have different opinions to you ‘planning4acrash’ doesn’t make me a paid up member of VIs

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  • David ….. if you want to know the truth about house prices, go onto http://www.houseprices.co.uk and try to find a few houses that have changed hands a few times over the past 6 years. If you do that for my nearest town, you get the following for a recent sale – click here – which shows a 5% drop in the past 9 months. Can you accept that prices might be falling in some places?

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  • david20040_0 says:

    Yeah, I live in the E Mids and in some areas they have stalled.

    I fully accept that.

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  • david20040_0 says:

    But in some areas they are still rocketing.

    Student areas in Nottingham and Leicester are booming.

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  • david20040_0 says:

    Maybe a 5% drop in the past 9 months, but look at the boom before it ‘uncle chris’ nearly a grand a month, just like what I have been saying.

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  • Prices still rising in Headingley Leeds and more importnatly still selling.

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  • I think most people welcome the balance you provide here, David.

    Prices are dropping, but there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors trying to disguise it. The most shocking article I read in recent days was the Thamesmead flats scandal. Wow. I mean wow – an admission of widespread corruption and fraudulent masking of falling prices.

    The tip of the iceberg too.

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  • There is no doubt prices have risen sharply since 1997, hence the existence of this website and all us grumpy bloggers.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    “And rightmove says that house prices are rising” and “no credit crunch coz the BOE said they’d sort it out” That’s not balance, its uninformed nonsense from a person who contributes to most threads and reads almost every post yet never references counter arguments, wake up Paul, David is a spoof blogger paid by vested interests, no doubt.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Funny how he pops up just after Landlord Association leaves, one and the same person matey.

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  • 1. david20040_0 said…
    “And the house they bought is rising over 1k a month so who is the mug really?

    You guys are so short sighted”.

    David, why do you feel it appropriate to come on here and insult people? Where do you get off on calling others short sighted. Meaning what? You have the true crystal ball and are the only one who can see into the future with clarity?

    Whether you like it or not, many people here believe the people who have bought in recent years (at what could well be the top of the biggest housing bubble in history) are the short sighted ones. Apparently, according to selective parties, those who have bought are in clover because their property is going up in price far faster than their debt or inflation. BIG BUT here buddy, but is the average property actually increasing at all? Is it select properties in certain areas? What worth has a profit on paper? I’ll tell you, zero. The smart money would have sold by now – admittedly prices could continue to rise but “smart” money would generally hedge their bets – especially with all the indicators that the market is overblown flashing red. Hedge bets, get money to safety, live to invest another day. OR carry on counting your paper profit and watch it spiral downwards?

    (And personally, I don’t buy your ‘I’m hoping for a big crash’ line. You’re too quick to submit posts which appear to be trying to convince people that all in the garden is rosy. You’re an EA or someone trying to prolong the inevitable long enough to flog your portfolio. Go on, admit it).

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • Freddie Sirmans says:

    Just browsing the internet, your blog is very, very interesting.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

    Reply
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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

    Reply
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  • planning4acrash says:

    All he does is say, oh, this said that, so it must be true, whilst everybody else says, this said that, and that said that and the other said this that and the other, but this is my on balance conclusion. Or, and this is a new conspiracy theory, the nice people at house price crash may be worried that too much of a consensus is happening and and posting as David to stir up a bit of interest?!

    Sorry guys, hope you don’t mind me getting this off my chest! But remember that we are blogging about big bucks, trillions of pounds are at stake here, so there is no doubt that there are many people out there who so want this type of blogging to disapear, look at what the vested interests have done to destroy propertysnake.co.uk

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Sorry for the last few posts, my browser is playing up and, hope you don’t mind my accusations, but, remember that we are blogging about big bucks, trillions of pounds are at stake here, so there is no doubt that there are many people out there who so want this type of blogging to disapear, look at what the vested interests have done to destroy propertysnake.co.uk

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  • planning4acrash says:

    All he does is say, oh, this said that, so it must be true, whilst everybody else says, this said that, and that said that and the other said this that and the other, but this is my on balance conclusion. Or, and this is a new conspiracy theory, the nice people at house price crash may be worried that too much of a consensus is happening and and posting as David to stir up a bit of interest?!

    Sorry guys, hope you don’t mind me getting this off my chest! But remember that we are blogging about big bucks, trillions of pounds are at stake here, so there is no doubt that there are many people out there who so want this type of blogging to disapear, look at what the vested interests have done to destroy propertysnake.co.uk

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  • C'mon Correction says:

    I agree, I’ve read nothing from David over the past year where he can offer any reason why house prices should “rise at least £1k a month until the end of time” forever and ever.

    He is either trying to put doubt in the people’s mind that come on this website to seek reassurance that not everyone in this country thinks house prices will never fall and that house prices aren’t truly over-valued OR he’s just sad and likes to annoy people blogging (probably on various different blog-sites) insults like “you guys are so short sighted” like he has the power to predict the future (and doesn’t use/have a brain to make convincing counter-arguments)?

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • Wow, your browser must be really scr’wed, if it’s IE get rid and get Firefox or something else less stressful.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    All he does is say, oh, this said that, so it must be true, whilst everybody else says, this said that, and that said that and the other said this that and the other, but this is my on balance conclusion. Or, and this is a new conspiracy theory, the nice people at house price crash may be worried that too much of a consensus is happening and and posting as David to stir up a bit of interest?!

    Sorry guys, hope you don’t mind me getting this off my chest! But remember that we are blogging about big bucks, trillions of pounds are at stake here, so there is no doubt that there are many people out there who so want this type of blogging to disapear, look at what the vested interests have done to destroy propertysnake.co.uk

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Its Safari, I thought Macs were supposed to be perfect and never go wrong! Yes, it is stressful.

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  • well said panning4acrash and wiltshire,David is just blogging vested interest bulls£$t and he knows it.I reckon he is defineately an EA because none of his comments are very well thought out or intelligent.Keep trying mate but most people on this blog have got you sussed.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Oops, my server or computer is playing up.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    That’s wierd, even my posts are even going in the wrong order, time for bed me thinks. (maybe I can think of another conspiracy for this one?!

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  • Emigration_generation says:

    I’ve been following this blog for over six months now and initially David20040_0 was a bull who attacked anyone who dared to say that the conditions for a crash or large correction are appearing.

    After being slapped down by facts from regulars here, David20040_0 laid low.

    A few weeks ago (not long after Landlord Association disappeared) David20040_0 reappeared being bearish or at least appearing to do so. I don’t mind counter arguments to a crash if they are based in fact or have some real evidence but this guy seems to pull information out of his backside, posting crap and then not backing up with arguments or even reasoned discussion.

    Personally I think the conditions for a crash are building nicely, I plan on emigrating to Cyprus within the next 5-7 years so the price of houses do not affect me directly however I feel that affordable homeownership should be available to all and that people shouldn’t have to commit financial suicide to have the chance at owning their own place.

    The posters to this site have correctly predicted a number of things that have all materialised thus far:

    * Interest Rate rises.
    * Repo’s and Insolvencies rising.
    * House prices stalling and generally falling in huge parts of the UK.
    * How the inflation figures are cooked so that they appear lower than they are.
    * How the media and vested interest groups spin statistics in order to deceive the public.
    * The fact that the price of oil has sat above or around $70 one year after the Lebanon war last year and with a potential war between the US and Iran round the corner.

    It’s very difficult to pick the time the crash will begin, however you can determine the chances of a crash depending on various conditions and those conditions are brewing nicely, sadly some people will find themselves repossessed and in financial hardship however they made their choices and ignorance of ones own financial affairs is inexcusable.

    People that think the “value” of a house only goes up are setting themselves up for life to slap them around the face.

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  • p4c, you could even be right, but I doubt it.

    If David stops being rational in his arguments, then maybe look again.

    At this stage, the recent drops are dwarfed by past gains in prices. Then again that makes the drops all the more ominous, and no-one needs to force any point of view right now.

    It’s happening all on its own.

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  • voiceofreason says:

    Don’t worry Dave90210, I have a cunning plan 🙂
    How about you lend me say £200,000 and I will put up some furniture & a car etc. worth about £20,000 as collateral.
    I will of course pay you 0.5% interest every month (my margin payment to you).
    Then I will “invest” my £200K in some cracking good investments, e.g. some city centre off-plan BTL flats.
    Maybe we can find some of your friends too, say 300 of them. Then we can all lend eachother £200,000.
    We can all pay margins of of 0.5% per month to each other.
    Oh and while we are at it, let’s all lend eachother another £200K each and get some more off-plan flats.
    Who cares if one or two of our off-plan BTL flats can’t be let, or that the builder failed to sell all of them to gullible potential landlords and is now offloading them at £140K a pop. Just so long as we keep telling each other we are borrowing more every month because we are such successful investors. Keep slapping eachother’s backs. Have another Aston. Don’t mind if I do.
    Nobody knows that actually some of the 300 or so are using the extra borrowing to pay the 0.5% per month margin calls…
    So long as we all keep borrowing and lending each other increasing amounts. The arrangement can go on.
    Each month we lend some more, borrow some more. And the cracks are not exposed.
    Until one or two of us can’t meet the 0.5% even with the extra borrowing to fund it, and this gets everyone spooked.
    Suddenly nobody wants to lend more money to anyone.
    Next month, it will become obvious who is really sitting on the dud assets & big losses because they wont make the margin payments.
    I wonder who it will be ?
    Dave90210s & his 300 friends will collapse like dominoes all the while wandering what happened.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • Ihopeitgoeswithabang says:

    I would think the main point to make here, would be that people with a house have ‘gone to town’ with their spending on credit cards, cars and general loans in the belief that their property will save them from everything. Well for some it may well do that. So their options are to remortgage or sell. Assuming that alot of people have lied and mortgaged to the hilt to get a house in the first place – a remortgage will not not be possible. So the only real option is sell.

    Now that is relevant since it means more property thrown onto the market.
    The next problem for those people will be getting ‘out of the habit’ of spending what they dont have or earn!

    If you buy and sell a property within 2 years and ‘make’ £15,000 then thats not really the case is it. I had to remind my brother that by the time he accounts for his buying and selling fees /costs he did not infact make any money at all! He too was expecting to ‘pay things off’ with his house!Not!

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • Pauls post (#11) mentions the thamesmead flats scandal, a story that was covered by the times yesterday and as it appears to me none of the other media. I am absolutely certain this is being repeated over and over again all over the UK as I have come across the same scenario in quiet conversations about certain developments in Manchester.

    These practices have ramped the market in the UK which is unfortunate for the normal citizens of this country who have bought properties in the last 2 years or so especially new-build apartments.

    The scenario Voice of Reason alludes to has been played out over this period especially where multiple off-plan purchases have been made and not subsequently rented out.

    Check out your local new-build apartments, especially in the late evening and see how many empty parking spaces there are and how few have lights that are on.

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  • “”Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.””

    OK OK I get it but why have you posted it like 15 times.

    I have no affiliation with any Estate Agents, I despise them.

    I just think posting articles which state that someone who has bought a house is 10k less well off compared to someone who is renting is a bit weird when the value of their house, by Halifax / Nationwide’s estimates that they will rise by at least that in one year.

    I do want house prices to crash, but I don’t share the same massively pessmistic doomsday scenario that you guys seem to support.

    If house prices drop by 0.1% you seem to think it is a new dawn, yet if they rise by 1 or 2% you instantly dismiss the article.

    I guess that if you don’t tow the line here you aren’t welcome so I won’t post anymore.

    And as for being paid by VIs, I wish, I earn peanuts and will never be able to afford a house in the UK. That’s why I want them to crash.

    I will still visit the site, but I will no longer post because if you go against the line then you are instantly shot down and insulted.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    All he does is say, oh, this said that, so it must be true, whilst everybody else says, this said that, and that said that and the other said this that and the other, but this is my on balance conclusion. Or, and this is a new conspiracy theory, the nice people at house price crash may be worried that too much of a consensus is happening and and posting as David to stir up a bit of interest?!

    Sorry guys, hope you don’t mind me getting this off my chest! But remember that we are blogging about big bucks, trillions of pounds are at stake here, so there is no doubt that there are many people out there who so want this type of blogging to disapear, look at what the vested interests have done to destroy propertysnake.co.uk

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    No David, my server is really playing up, I didn’t mean to post it so many times.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    My point is very simple, the point of a blog like this, is not to say, this is what the article said, so its true, the point is to read it and, giving a view in context with a critical analysis of the source of the info, is it a reliable source? Is the source a vested interest? What are other sources saying? Are they more or less reliable? I am all happy for bull comments, I personally can’t see any big crash until later on next year, but I don’t take what rightmove says at face value, because they get their money from estate agents. This is what I mean by abstract thought.

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  • Wow,
    and I don’t even like peas.

    David – I’ve been reading this blog for a good few years, thinking that the “crash” must be just round the corner.
    I would say, if not having a house is getting you down, just buy one and then don’t read a newspaper for ten years. However, personally, I’m just going to hang in there for another 6 months and then put in some really low offers on houses I like. I might just get lucky.

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  • Either that, or he has the intelligence of a garden pea with no capacity whatsover for abstract thought

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  • stillthinking says:

    What are you saying people? My guru’s, who led me on the righteous path.
    Hedge funds, the bank’s bank have already said it’s all gone. Some dubious (US) banks are about to go. Central banks everywhere are issuing money….
    We are looking at a severe recession. I will lose my job so the HPC won’t help much.
    Gossiping and bickering about the price of property. I never heard the like.

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  • David,

    I don’t need to resort to emotive language – I’ve probably been watching this game since before you were born – there IS a BIG problem out there, and you would do well to listen and learn – before judging your seniors…

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  • Please ban planning4acrash immediately – I can’t take anymore!!!!!! (Joke).

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  • @david20040_0

    It’s nice to hear a contrary voice! I’d prefer if there wasn’t a slanging match.

    I accept that in principle it may be possible to speculate upon rising house prices to finance debt in some areas of the country but it becoming riskier with every day that passes.

    It seems to me that our house price ‘boom’ is based upon ever rising debt. Some youngsters will undoubtedly be advised that they have to buy in by their parents who don’t understand the crazy state of our nation’s finances.

    Unless you genuinely believe that we can keep racking up greater personal and national debt without consequences, then the logic of a downward turn in prices is unavoidable.

    When will the tide turn? I’d guess about two years from now … but I’ve been (very) wrong about this in the past.

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  • george monsoon says:

    Wow.. I just got through the previous 51 posts.

    P4crash, lay off David a bit, although he is inherantly Bull, It does look like we have opened his eyes to all the media manipulation and monumental mess that the nation is currently in. I think there is truth in this statement that David made ——“If house prices drop by 0.1% you seem to think it is a new dawn, yet if they rise by 1 or 2% you instantly dismiss the article.”——

    I must admit, that I am as guilty as anyone else of getting a little over passionate with my comments and I am using this as a cool reminder to remain as objective as possible.

    All that said, Uncle Tom, Japanese Uncle, Royston.. all you guys have “Proved” your knowledge by predicting the rate rises, sub-prime fallout, market volatility that we are currently witness to.

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  • What happened to propertysnake.co.uk?

    As eluded to in multiple posts above.

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  • planning4acrash says:

    Alan, Estate Agencies and Rightmove ‘pursuaded’ stopped property snake from using data from their websites, hense, no photo’s and the number of reduced properties down from about 150,000 to about 20,000. See the link beneath.

    http://www.propertysnake.co.uk/site/news

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