Sunday, Aug 27, 2006

Anyone here want to desert Blighty?

Times: 10m want to quit 'over-taxed' UK

According to the Times, one in five Britons nearly 10m adults is considering leaving the country amid growing disillusionment over the failure of political parties to deliver tax cuts, according to a new poll. This somewhat biased article seems part of a campaign to reduce tax. I'm sure there are many other reasons for wanting to leave such as house prices, loss of traditional communities through immigration and the weather.

Posted by uncle chris @ 10:12 AM (606 views)
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1. indiablue19 said...

In comparison with traditional figures of about 6% emigration from Britain per annum which have previously been quote in the media, the idea of 22% from this straw poll is extraordinary. But weather has always been at issue [and weather on all but the Costa del Sol isn't all that much better while crime is rife], and many traditional communities were sacrificed long ago when most heavy manufacturing and the unions disappeared. But housing's escalation has changed a great deal. For one thing, if the additional cost of housing is factored into the cost of living, then the much-trumpeted 2.5 percent annual increase is a LOL joke. More like 20% per year on that score. Add to that the associated rise in council tax, utilities and maintenance costs, and in just a few years, you've got an impossibile hurdle for many to meet. Such a rise effectively "does in" most pensioners and young people no matter how they adjust their budgets. I notice that all the concessions being demanded of Parliament [abolition of inheritance tax and consideration for stock holders] are only helpful for the rich and well-established. And an another factor -- in relation to most servivces [NHS, school, transport especially], the UK appears to be stuck firmly between privatization and socialism and can not make up its mind. This results in the loss of a national identity, [and poor services] making it even more difficult to cope. Add those up and most will be wondering why they should stay, except that it is home and they are faithful to their own ideal vision of their country.

Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:10AM Report Comment

2. Dude said...

So how do you know you're 'over taxed?' How come European countries can tax more and give better public services, whereas the US taxes less ('it's your money, so you can spend it on what *you* want, not what the country needs') and they have poor public services and an appalling standard of living for those at the bottom of the pile?

I don't like paying tax, and niether do you, but tax pays for the society we live in. If the political system is not allowing people to express their views adequately then the sensible thing is to change the system. For those who don't like paying tax, well that is tough -- get used to it. For having more control on how your money is spent, well either get involved politically or, if you think that's not effective, campaign for a system that does give you more say.

Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:22AM Report Comment

3. Retiredbanker said...


A very astute assessment of the situation.

If I were young again and could not afford a reasonable house, I would most certainly acquire a marketable
skill and emigrate. This has been my usual advice to young people for many years.

Why stay in the UK and help to prop up the unfair and rapidly deteriorating conditions seen here.

My observations may seem to be at odds with the fact that my wife and I have done moderately well in
the rat race, but I do have a strong sense of fairness. I am from a lower middle/working class background, and was a Union rep. for many years, which certainly did not help my career.

Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:34AM Report Comment

4. tyrellcorporation said...

I have made a concious effort in recent years to try and ween myself off England and what it stood for. It's just too depressing to to see what TB has done to the fabric of England and GB. My logic is that if I don't give a stuff about the place and feel absolutely no allegiance to it then I can concentrate on living my life either here or in New Zealand (which would be my target for emigration).

I many respects this has been Tony's biggest achievement as he always knew the one thing that stops Britain being assimilated into the European project has been the British people. What better way to solve this than by effectively destroying their belief in the country and diluting the population with people from other countries.

I read recently that 1 in 5 are now contemplating emigration up from about 1 in 10 about 10 years ago. He wants a legacy, maybe the destruction of English and British culture is it...

Not too much about house prices but heh!, Mini-rant over...

Sunday, August 27, 2006 01:29PM Report Comment

5. paul said...

Like the falling brithrate I believe this is another manifestation of unaffordable housing. When will the government wake up to the true impact? When we start seeing genuine measures to improve affordability for younger people rather than concentrating on pampering to the landed elederly with inheritance tax breaks etc.

Sunday, August 27, 2006 02:18PM Report Comment

6. Ticktock said...

=on behalf of the Taxpayers Alliance (TPA), an independent political lobbying group

Hahahahahahahhahahaha.......and Fox/Sky News is an independent News station too I surpose!!

Nice one Rupert, good to see you have sense of humour, you might just need it one day.



Sunday, August 27, 2006 03:10PM Report Comment

7. Retiredbanker said...

The TPA should get their facts right.

The tax threshold is now 33,300, and to this must be added the personal tax free allowance of 5,035.
So 40% tax is not payable until income exceeds 38,335 ( assuming no claw-backs for benefits in kind
such as company car, private health insurance, etc.).

Sunday, August 27, 2006 04:45PM Report Comment

8. indiablue19 said...


A few words, if I may on the question you have posed about the differences between social and economic culture in the USA and in the UK. The US went for a very different model of democracy, in a county where opportunity has been virtually a commodity. There is little excuse in the US not to make a living. If you will notice recent headlines there, even 4 million illegal Mexican aliens have stepped into the economic system and staked their territory, purely on the "willing to work" basis, and are now demanding to stay. The US has given multiple waves to amnesty to such people because, frankly, they had a point.

The problems you witnessed in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina do attest to a class of people in the US who are vulnerable as institutionalized individuals who can not imagine a way, even with all support, to rise above their circumstances. There may be some of this in the UK, apart from the obvious council housing, but not anything on the scale you would witness if you lived an integrally involved life in the States. There, the first solution offered is job training and child care for the underprivileged. Those who will not make any effort may achieve a welfare status, but there is no guarantee if they have been offered reasonable work or training, except that they and their families will have free medical care called Medicaid. It is about as good as the NHS. Otherwise, it is expected that, if you can work, you will want to. Contrary that assumption is a massive embedded "gang" culture, where refusal to work in legal employment is an emblem and it is an award akin to an OBE to have status in the prison system rather than in the legitimate marketplace.

I helped build a private company that assisted multiple-offending young criminals, and their families in Los Angeles, Denver, Tucson, Phoenix, Chicago, Philadelphia and various places in Florida -- and even wrote a book about the road to success for kids growing up in these situations, including the types of programmes that can help.

It wasn't unusual to visit the families of kids we worked with and be told by a five year old boy "I'm gonna be a homeboy, just like my brother. Which meant this child was already planning a life of crime, drug addiction, and incarceration. This lifestyle leaves the multiple girlfriends, wives, and one-night stands who bear the children of these young men with no one to turn to for support; no one to be a viable male parent. They and their children are left living in dangerous streets and slums with no income. These are many of the people you saw at the stadium following Hurricane Katrina, I would guarantee. Many prominent Black and Latino citizens have decried the mentality of these people and sworn their own resources, in tandem with government monies, to turn the situation around. Our own private company could manage 3,000 multiple offending kids in community facilities at any moment in time. It took us fifteen years to build our expertise, resources and credibility. There are at least 125,000 gang members in Los Angeles alone. Cabrini Green in Chicago is literally a gang "city" with its own economy of drugs, extortion and armed robbery.

You must remember that the USA is a country of refugees. And keep in mind as well that the predecessors of many of these people were hijacked from their homes and brought there as slaves by Britain for a profit in the early years of the American civilization. Britain on the other hand is only beginning to find what it is like to try to welcome immigrants without distinction as to what kind of contribution they can make and how prepared they are to make it and to educate these people, and change their minds about "living on the system" -- especially when it is something they have seen to work for others. Which is the reason, you may find, that some people came here at all.

As I once was advised, "be sure your words are kind and sweet, you may someday need to eat them."

Sunday, August 27, 2006 04:52PM Report Comment

9. paul said...


I think you're missing a fundamental point that tax is always a trade-off. In Norway, where taxes are much higher, they have good state pensions, and good health service and a good safety net for the poor. "Overtaxed" expresses a belief that we're paying too much in relation to what we're getting back.

Sunday, August 27, 2006 05:00PM Report Comment

10. Caledonian-emigre said...

Norway, Sweden and Demark have arguably the highest standard of living in the world - their taxes go towards kindergartens, sports facilities, pensions, health, higher education, subsidised public transport etc.
Tax may be lower in the UK than many European countries but you have to pay for most of the above yourself (not the National Health of course) - and if you fall on hard times there is not much chance that Tony and Gord will come galloping to the rescue - theyre too busy giving tax breaks to BTLs or allowing foreign organized crime to come and set up shop in London

Sunday, August 27, 2006 06:13PM Report Comment

11. daintydiana said...


US has a large and unwieldy population - Norway's population is so rare, everyone of them is 'numbered' :)

Sunday, August 27, 2006 06:44PM Report Comment

12. Sloth (friend Of The Tpa) said...

Tick tock,

Under this government the extortion funded sector has grown massively. Socialism (coerced collectivism) allways kills, just look at the massive number of NHS deaths.

Productive people are hugely over-taxed in order to reward people who receive extorted money, and thus are likely to vote Labour.

Make funding the NHS, Pensions, Education and every other non-core activity voluntary (i.e. only fund, police, military, judiciary) and see how many people would choose these state "services". My guess is next to NONE (e.g. state teachers are the most likely to use private schools). The productive people living in this country are treated as slaves to socialism.

As soon as I can, I'm off to somewhere like the U.S. or anywhere else with a future.

Sunday, August 27, 2006 08:26PM Report Comment

13. paul said...


What you're saying is that the US is poorly managed/administered. Large and unwieldy? I wouldn't want to have to wield an average American, granted.

Norwegians? Numbered? No!

Like America, Norway was friends with the Nazi regime. Most of the numbering was done in Germany, Hungary, Poland and Czechoslovakia I believe.

Sunday, August 27, 2006 09:02PM Report Comment

14. Ticktock said...


With all due respect, your analysis is completely backward.

I have no idea why you think the Nu labours rabid neo-libralism has anything at all to do with Socialism. It is the polar opposite of socialism. It is disingenious to suggest that the numerous problems caused by this administration have their routes in socialism,rather they are the inevitable result of American style, unbridled, capitalism.

Tax breaks for Companys, and the rich, have done absolutely nothing (ever) to encourage productive investment in an economy, and given both the fiscal, and social, state of those Nations who still believe in this fallacy,it is quite laughable that calls for 'more of the same' should be given any credibility at all. How many times do you have to be proven completely wrong before you accept this?

The 'open' economy (ie. those whose capital accounts can be 'punished' by U.S. hedge funds if they do not do what the US wants) is the problem. As economies are so vulnerable to attack, nobody wants to risk investment. As a result of this, there is constantly shinking employment. This is why crash has employed so many people at the tax payers expense, because our old friend Mr. Market has f***ed off abroad with all our cash to serve its own 'rational self interest' and avoid the mess that it has created domesticly.

It could therefore be argued that crash's response to the problem is rooted in socialism,but to blame the cause of the problem on socialism is quite ridiculous.I can assure you that this state of affairs would never have come about under socialism in the first place. There may be other problems with a socialist economy, but not this.

Tax breaks never have, and never will, do anything but transfer more wealth to the already wealthy at the expense of the poor, and thus make the problem far worse. The rich are well aware of this, which makes their phoney survays and suggestions all the more sickening.

If you don't believe in tax, then you don't believe in State either. And if you do not support our State, why should we listen to your suggestions for it? The fact that 'productive people' (always makes me laugh that one - because traders etc. are nothing of the sort!) have so little regard for their Country that they would rather leave than pay for it to continue, proves that the kind of self intrested citizens that capitalism creates, have no business deciding the future direction of our Country doesn't it?

Monday, August 28, 2006 10:29AM Report Comment

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