Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006

Saving Scheme For House Deposit Suggested For Ireland

Irish Examiner: Young people 'exiled' by house prices, say Fine Gael

Fine Gael are proposing that the government contribute towards huge deposits now needed to get on the housing ladder - or risk losing a generation of young people who will go abroad

Posted by Peter Argot @ 10:50 AM (572 views)
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22 Comments

1. sebastian said...

What is it with stupid ideas like this, how short sighted can people be? Great idea, lets ignore the actual problem (houses are a rip off) and fuel it instead. Ignoring the fact that the longer this goes on for the larger the deposits that will be required by the next generation and the generation after that.

When people, we are talking about everyday working class people on average wages, have to rely on government schemes to own a home then something is clearly wrong. People really need to start looking at the root of the problem in order to correct it. If you ask me the problems seem to lie in excessive borrowing and a greed fueled market.

Am I the only one that finds it frustrating that some people are willing to take on massive mortgages and debts, live care free and then reep all the rewards? Perhaps I am just bitter lacking the spine in not wanting to take on more debt than I can afford. I just don't believe that a stable economy can be based on the masses of debt we now have, time will tell I guess.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:13PM Report Comment
 

2. Reubenh said...

At least someone over there is raising the issue! That's streets ahead of the crocodile tears and smug complecency offered by our own "Opposition" ...

And yes, throwing government money at FTBs is idiotic and irresponsible. The only real solution to this growing nightmare is to tax second homeowners and offshore property investors. Fat chance of that happening though... the two major parties here, without whom nothing will ever be done, are more interested in rewarding the idle speculation of parasites than seeing that current & future generations enjoy the same chances they did.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:29PM Report Comment
 

3. Michael Bartlett said...

I agree.

The only solution to this problem is either the one mentioned above, or an economic crash, which is due around 2009-2011. It won;t bother me, though - I will be long gone to the USA by that time. I'm not waiting around anymore.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 01:19PM Report Comment
 

4. inbreda said...

things will change when the majority of voters have experienced what is currently only being experienced by FTBs. So when the FTBs are OAPs and the next generation of FTBs are facing the same problem, there will be sufficient votes for the scum politicians to sort it out.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 01:52PM Report Comment
 

5. European-bear said...

When demand is greater than supply the price rises. When the government interferes to give buyers more buying power (because they cannot do it on their own)...surprise surprise, demand increases and price rises further. Government subsidies weather in handouts or tax relief never work, they just push the price up and people still pay the same as they would without the subsidie (or possibly more as the capital sum to pay back goes up).

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 02:42PM Report Comment
 

6. Retiredbanker said...

Like our own Government's scheme to assist "essential workers", this would only succeed in pushing house
prices to even higher levels and create bigger problems in the future. However short-term "solutions" always
appeal to politicians who know that they will be comfortably retired before the chickens come home to roost.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 02:46PM Report Comment
 

7. tyrellcorporation said...

Cripes! It does make you wonder about the calibre of the decision makers eh?

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 02:46PM Report Comment
 

8. talking rot said...

Clearly the calibre of the decision makers is incredibly high. Our own Govn has fostered a reputation for economic competence by ensuring house prices remain high as a driver for consumer spending. The money New Liebour has generated from Stamp Duty has gone some way to allowing them to pay for their social experiments. From a politicans point of view it is a nirvana - tax people more AND THEY STILL FEEL HAPPY.

Despite what many learned commentators on the Blog say, we are in the minority. The vast majority of the UK population don't want a crash and want to see their homes rise in value. Interest rates are low; unemployment is far below the 3 millions mark and many people feel wealthy.

We're just a bunch of cranks with a Cassandra complex. I recall that many commentators to this Blog predicted a HPC in 2006. Not much sign of one.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 03:46PM Report Comment
 

9. sebastian said...

Reubenh these issues have been raised all too often. Housing shemes have been suggested very often over the last few years. I agree that it is at least making people aware of the problem and this type of solution probably is more acceptable than saying houses are a rip of make them crash :)

Can you please explain what you mean by "That's streets ahead of the crocodile tears and smug complecency offered by our own "Opposition" ..."

"To weep crocodile tears is to pretend a sorrow that one doesnt in fact feel, to create a hypocritical show of emotion. The idea comes from the ancient belief that crocodiles weep while luring or devouring their prey."

Interesting lookup but I don't really see it's relevance? Seems like you are just spouting nonsense for the sake of a flame then going onto agree ?!? :S
I merely try to be constructive and welcome critism and education but don't see the requirement of comments like that. Keep it civil please :P

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 04:06PM Report Comment
 

10. inbreda said...

What's so uncivil sebastian?

Why don't you understand reubhens crocodile tears comment? It makes sense according to your own description.

Perhaps the confusion is in the word "opposition" - i.e. tory party????? Maybe you read it as our (HPC) opposition?????

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 04:12PM Report Comment
 

11. Ticktock said...

Given all OECD Governments (particularly the UK's) firm belief that 'renters' are more 'economicly mobile' than 'owners', and moreover,that this mobility is to be encouraged within the new 'federal europe' project, I fear that news such as this will be well received by Governments, and not at all viewed as a reason to change anything.

FTBs are being coerced away from the rich countries towards poor ones, and lower payed, less demanding imigrants, imported to replace them. Social and economic engineering at its ugliest I'm affraid.

Welcome to the new world order!

P.S For what its worth, I agree with your points entirely Sebastian, but, like Inbreda, think you may have miss-understood Reubenh??

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 05:02PM Report Comment
 

12. Surfgatinho said...

Anyone not tied to the UK or Ireland for whatever reason should vote with their feet. It will be time to come back when the Baby Boomer generation is gone. Anyone under 30 owes nothing to the state and have been earmarked to support their elders by having to work until they drop trying to pay off their massive debts

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 05:06PM Report Comment
 

13. Reubenh said...

"Keep it civil" Sebastian? I'm kind of gobsmacked by this... Uncivil behaviour might be, gee I dunno, maybe accusing a poster of "spouting nonsense for the sake of a flame"... but where did I do anything like that? Perhaps you misunderstood something...

As Inbreda already said, "Opposition" refers to Her Majesty's Opposition, i.e. the Conservative Party. They are to the UK what Fine Gael are to Ireland. Only unlike Fine Gael, the Tories are all too happy for unsustainable HPI to continue forever.

"Crocodile tears" seems apt because I all too often hear Tory politicians professing deep sympathy for the plight of the priced-out generation, but they never have the slightest mind to do anything about it.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 05:14PM Report Comment
 

14. Paul said...

Reubenh, Sebastian, stop arguing about the length of rope we're hung by! ;D

"Crocodile tears" does seem to sum up the government attitude to high house prices because its a moneyspinner for them at the expense of excluding a whole generation from equity buy-in. They'll make sympathetic noises but they won't act and neither will the Bank of England, which is now credited with engineering the soft landing (and I don't remember that ever being part of their remit).

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 06:27PM Report Comment
 

15. tyrellcorporation said...

Surfgatinho... Spot on mate!

I'm 38 and thankfully my missus was born in NZ and so can return to live there (with me in tow!) any time. From a purely selfish point of view it's great to see the NZD dropping in value as I'm sorely tempted to leave this festering Isle for those very reasons you mentioned.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 07:09PM Report Comment
 

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17. Crashedoutandburned said...

The banks must love this sort of stuff. They have carte blanche to lend suicidal sums to anyone with a pulse but no one ever says this should be curtailed. It's always, 'build on the green belt', 'more HA shared ownership', 'government must pay deposits. Kill loose lending and you stop speculation, MEW-ed second homes, and kamikaze FTB bankrupt-in-waiting all in one go. the trouble is, over 60% of money in circulation was created as mortgage debt. Debt enslavement is how we provide a means of exchange. Sadly, money reform has never been such a fringe issue.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 08:17PM Report Comment
 

18. Gruppenfuhrer said...

I like a lot of what this Government has done - I am sorry, I do. I don't mind working, I don't mind working hard and I don't mind paying higher taxes in exchange for better services. What I object to is the ridiculous situation house prices have reached. I don't believe this has been maliciously engineered by politicians or the Government or anyone, but it has happened, and if effort hasn't been taken to curb it already it surely must do now.

Things are getting silly.

Is there any way that we, that the contributors to this site, can start to put out press releases - can do our own straw poles or petitions that can perhaps start to get some coverage?
I used to be a news journalist and sub editor on the nationals (I only write about architecture now so put you voo doo dolls away) but the thing is I know how it works, generate a press release that is half convincing, based on reasonably credible information - a straw poll for example - say it comes from a credible source - pressure group www.housepricecrash.co.uk for example and you are away. If the journlaist has anything about them they should get some balance from somewhere else but I think it wouldn't take much to start getting our message out to a wider audience.

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 08:52PM Report Comment
 

19. Paul said...

Well volunteered Gruppenfuhrer. These things are usually achieved by a spokesman stepping forward rather than a committee.

I think your arguments will fall on dear ears though, because no-one wants to hear about falling house prices (well, apart from us).

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 09:54PM Report Comment
 

20. harold said...

Gruppenfuhrer, it's not a bad idea. What you would need, however, is a sample of bloggers from all/most quarters of the country to post the result of some simple statistical test - like the number of monthly EA price reductions (often billed as "new price") they observe in their local property newspaper, for example (I'm sure there's a better test of a stagnant market - any suggestions?).

Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:10PM Report Comment
 

21. Geed said...

Gruppenfuhrer, great idea. Lets get some "real" sentiment/statistics from some "real" people out in the media.

Thursday, June 22, 2006 03:48AM Report Comment
 

22. tyrellcorporation said...

Gruppenfuhrer. The trouble is you're paying vastly higher taxes for no improvement in services. If you don't mind doing that then we're all in trouble!

With regards to your idea, I think the sentiment is great but I reckon about 25-30 people write on this forum. Even with getting on-board friends and relatives who recognise our plight we'll amount to about a hundred if lucky. I don't want to sound defeatist but too many people have done extremely well (ie. won the housing lottery) out of HPI and the politicians know this. A few squeeks of dissent from the periphery will not get heard or broadcast.

As someone said in one of the other threads, I think we're going to have to wait until the 20 somethings realise they've been utterly shafted before the political classes sit up and take note of the disenfranchised generation.

...unless HPC comes from another quarter altogether...

Thursday, June 22, 2006 09:00AM Report Comment
 

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