General Congreve Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) When I started this thread and bought Pt and Pd in December 08 I based my decision on these historical charts from Kitco:http://66.38.218.33/LFgif/pd92-pres.gif http://66.38.218.33/LFgif/pt92-pres.gif Since a lot of mines have been mothballed I think there should be a spike if/when automotive demand picks up again. Prices would have to rise to a level worth opening those mines before they do. There is just so much hot air spouted by gold bugs that I'm glad I didn't get much of it. Platinum and Palladium is where it's at. Thing is they're both industrial metals and industry is going through the biggest downturn ever seen. Not to say that there isn't plenty of money to be made from their volatility. However, the beauty of gold is that its primary use in the world is as a store of value/currency, therefore industrial demand doesn't have as much of an effect on it as the other metals. This makes it the perfect monetary metal as industrial demand is never likely to deplete it leading to deflation and newly mined gold is only produced at a max 2% per annum, perfect for a currency that promotes healthy economic growth. There are many people with money left looking to 'maintain value' in these uncertain times, hence the popularity of gold, as it is the ultimate currency. Speculate with other metals by all means and good luck. But gold is last chair in the game of musical chairs now being played. Edited July 22, 2009 by General Congreve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diversified Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Thing is they're both industrial metals and industry is going through the biggest downturn ever seen. Not to say that there isn't plenty of money to be made from their volatility.However, the beauty of gold is that its primary use in the world is as a store of value/currency, therefore industrial demand doesn't have as much of an effect on it as the other metals. This makes it the perfect monetary metal as industrial demand is never likely to deplete it leading to deflation and newly mined gold is only produced at a max 2% per annum, perfect for a currency that promotes healthy economic growth. There are many people with money left looking to 'maintain value' in these uncertain times, hence the popularity of gold, as it is the ultimate currency. Speculate with other metals by all means and good luck. But gold is last chair in the game of musical chairs now being played. Nonsense. You're another one trying to talk up Gold, thanks for proving my point. It's performance in relation to the crisis (and compared with Pt and Pd) has been below mediocre and it's price will drop as we pull through the bottom of the recession. The world is full of Gold, even chavs wear it. It survives mostly on hype and BS. The blatant fact that a drastic bullion coin shortage has barely affected spot but hugely driven up dealer premiums proves it. You don't speculate on gold, you essentially bet on it and the world is full of people who'll want to dump it the moment things start to look more rosy. People are already thinking changing back to stocks again. However there is less than a year's worth of Pt andPd above ground and very few open mines, so you stick with gold and I'll cash in when industry desperately looks for Pt+Pd again. Edited July 22, 2009 by Diversified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 What are your thoughts on Rhodium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diversified Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 What are your thoughts on Rhodium? Difficult to buy or sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Don't know if any of you read this: http://www.platinum.matthey.com/uploaded_f...publication.pdf It's a market analysis (probably the most reputable one) of the platinum group metals, mainly platinum, some palladium with a small section on Rhodium (essentially a by-product of the Pt extraction) and the other precious metals. Full of interesting info for investors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Sorry, forgot to mention, if you're interested in precious metals generally you should read platinum metals review. A free scientific journal also published by JM. http://www.platinum.matthey.com/publications/pmr.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzy Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Anyone know how secure investments in Kitco acccounts are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diversified Posted August 9, 2009 Author Share Posted August 9, 2009 Anyone know how secure investments in Kitco acccounts are? About as long as a piece of string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azogar Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (daily chart - so not confirmed as yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azogar Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (daily chart - so not confirmed as yet) well, three days later and I would say it is confirmed; the multi-month resistance has been broken, perhaps it is too early to call it a support line as yet but we shall see going forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azogar Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 well, three days later and I would say it is confirmed; the multi-month resistance has been broken, perhaps it is too early to call it a support line as yet but we shall see going forward now acting as support (so far) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azogar Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 now acting as support (so far) and continues to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diversified Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Well, it looks like I was right! A quid invested at the time I started this thread would be worth approximately £1.40 now, 10 months later. Gold didn't perform as well as PT+PD. Edited October 5, 2009 by Diversified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azogar Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Well, it looks like I was right! A quid invested at the time I started this thread would be worth approximately £1.40 now, 10 months later. Gold didn't perform as well as PT+PD. very subjective though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upsanddowns Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 This post has made me a considerable amount and i thank the original poster greatly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1AK Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm glad the platinum and palladium worked out for you, but I do think gold has an advantage that these metals don't. Gold as others have said straddles the line between currency and commodity. This has the advantage of protecting it from variances in the industrial demand but makes it susceptible to variance due to market confidence. Although it worked out this time it could just as easily have backfired. Arguably the commodities benefitted from confidence returning, whereas gold suffered. If things had gotten worse in the last few months gold could of come out ahead (or not, I'm no financial expert!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upsanddowns Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I guess anything you do has the capacity to backfire especially if it involves money - the best we can do is use the most logical outcomes , this must be hard on a daily or weekly basis but on longer term outcomes it becomes perhaps a bit more predicable If for example electric cars were predicted to become the norm (they probably will) then copper will be used for the motors each car having say 50 kilos each and then the millions of cars on the road would require a huge demand for copper you could reasonably expect the price for copper to go up over time But Im sure that the past is littered with logical losers- I just hope that Im not amongst them !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diversified Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 This post has made me a considerable amount and i thank the original poster greatly And your comment has made my day! Enjoy your gains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diversified Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 I'm glad the platinum and palladium worked out for you, but I do think gold has an advantage that these metals don't. Gold as others have said straddles the line between currency and commodity. This has the advantage of protecting it from variances in the industrial demand but makes it susceptible to variance due to market confidence. Although it worked out this time it could just as easily have backfired. Arguably the commodities benefitted from confidence returning, whereas gold suffered. If things had gotten worse in the last few months gold could of come out ahead (or not, I'm no financial expert!) I take the view that the non-commodity part of Gold is no different to any fiat currency: It's only worth as much as people are willing to give you for it, like glass beads or bits of paper with vacuous promises. It's the practical need for it in products that is Gold's non-fiat value. There is so much of it around that industry isn't likely to go short for a long time. The chains dangling from chavs are a few months industry supply alone. IMO PT+PD haven't achieved their full price yet, industry is still running on stocks from the global downturn, demand for vehicle catalytic converters is still low and the mines that were shut down haven't reopened. They won't until the price has risen high enough to make it worthwhile. Until then I expect PT+PD prices to go up because of shortage of supply and increasing vehicle demand. The main risk is some major innovation in catalytic conversion, in which case a price rise will just be postponed until stocks run low. My original precious metal investment was 17.5% gold, 40% Platinum and 42.5% Palladium. Don't let the Gold bugs bite you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azogar Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 now acting as support (so far) still acting as support (weekly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azogar Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page34?oid=93944&sn=Detail Shanghai's gold exchange to start trading palladium The exchange's chairman told a conference in the city it will launch trading the metal next year once government approval has been received Posted: Thursday , 03 Dec 2009 SHANGHAI (Reuters) - The Shanghai Gold Exchange is set to launch trading of the precious metal palladium next year, the exchange chairman told a conference on Thursday. "Palladium will soon be launched," said Shen Xiangrong, chairman of the Shanghai Gold Exchange. "The government approval process is nearing an end." The launch still needs final approval from China's central bank, he said. The precious metal may find a rising market in China as demand grows from car manufacturers, who use it as a catalytic converter to reduce toxic emissions from engine exhaust. China's car production has soared in 2009 and, helped by government subsidies, the Chinese car market overtook the United States as the world's largest earlier this year. China has plenty of room to promote car sales further in 2010, a senior Chinese government official said on Tuesday. Palladium XPD= is already traded globally and its value has doubled this year, helped by an association with gold XAU=. Palladium is also popular as jewellery in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diversified Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Hehehe, still laughing at the gold bugs here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay Beautiful Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Hehehe, still laughing at the gold bugs here! without doing any reaserch here, ireckon that the aformentioned is doing better than gold as of when you bought in, well done! there, you have some praise, sweet dreams x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diversified Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 without doing any reaserch here, ireckon that the aformentioned is doing better than gold as of when you bought in, well done! there, you have some praise, sweet dreams x Thanks for the praise and yes, Palladium more than doubled and Platinum is up more than 50% since I started this thread in December '08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay Beautiful Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks for the praise and yes, Palladium more than doubled and Platinum is up more than 50% since I started this thread in December '08. Well done pal, its always nice to hear of a bit of sucess on a site that does tend to lean on a bearish outlook of ife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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