Wealthy Real Estate Family In Ny "totally Wiped Out" By Madoff

[Leroast]

A spokeswoman for Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) told AFP that the bank had "some exposure" to Madoff's company, but declined to give details.

Some £400 million according to BBC news.

[Little Professor]

'Superwoman' Nicola Horlick also got taken in:

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008/12/12...ear-after-year/

[Converted Lurker]

"It is astonishing that this apparent fraud seems to have been continuing for so long, possibly for decades, while investors have continued to invest more money into the Madoff funds in good faith," the firm said in a statement.

I'm not astonished. There must be dozens of other frauds of this nature just waiting to be exposed. Because if this Jew was ripping off other Jews (many of Madoff's clients appear to be Jewish), then New Yorkers are ripping off New Yorkers and Turks are ripping off Turks. It is pretty clear now that the entire system is crooked and corrupt. Dodgy accountants, dodgy accounting standards, corruption at the top levels. Too much money being made and money-addicted syncophantic people running everything.

House of cards. Let it fall and/or burn.

Not sure how relevant/necessary the race comments are but the other points are good. The lack of accountability on the checks and balances is astonishing, you'd think another Enron couldn't have happened. For this to have taken place on such a scale their accountants must be equally as guilty of fraud. This will either run and run or be buried to preserve other reputations. We'll also have other firms temporarily using it as a 'duck and cover' excuse for their losses/poor performance. IMHO 'Wall st' will weather this, today at least.

[Leroast]

Dubai The New Switzerland For The Elite

Exclusive to Rense.com

12-13-8

In the last two days, two separate people have engaged me in separate conversations without my inducing them to do so.

One was a visiting Swiss national. The other a Pakistani American dentist. The conversations got so hot I purposely did not ask their names, and nor did they ask mine.

Both were in Dubai to respectively move assets out of the USA and Europe. They both independently said they're getting very bad feelings as to what is happening globally. Neither really new about the globalists or the New World Order agenda, but knew of the coming important role of Dubai for the wealthy of the world.

To me, they seemed to be just two shrewd people who trust their gut feelings. When I told them what is going down with the globalist financial agenda and the unfolding NWO, they needed no convincing. It was as if all the pieces of the puzzle came together for them. Their eyes were wide open saying "I knew it, I knew it......." Interestingly, the response was the same from both of them.he same response from both.

I know a Dubai lawyer who tells me their firm is being contacted daily by people from the US and elsewhere wanting desperately to get out of their home countries.

The Dentist said he'd been to French banks but they asked 'too many questions' once they found out he is an American. They were spooked. They told him to go to Dubai.

Dubai has no taxes and there is total freedom of funds movement.

The word amongst the real estate locals is that low level Russian Oligarchs have been laundering money in the Dubai property market. Russian prostitutes are all over the town. Lord Rothschild was here last month with Gordon Brown for meetings with banking authorities under the cover of global crisis financial talks.

The World Bank has pumped $250 billion in loans into the Dubai. Why? The main gold and silver trading exchange is soon tipped to move from the COMEX to the local Dubai exchange currently being set up.

The Emire of Dubai has said he doesn't want a middle class. They can all leave. He only wants monied elites. He made this statement in a BBC interview. They locals are fully aware of his plan.

The first wave of property flippers are being cleaned out. They have served their purpose. The provided cover for the crazy initial construction phase of Dubai.

CNN is here. A huge building. As usual, I expect it's an intel base station for the usual spooks.

Legal firms in the city are currently writing global banking laws for a Free Trade banking zone being established here. These new laws are based on City of London banking codices. I met some lawyers who are writing them. They know what is going down.

A flood of UK banking and legal type wealth managers are moving here from the City of London. Why? We know what is happening with lay offs in the UK, but why Dubai? Take a guess?

The more I see, the more I can see the global elites are going to use Dubai as their Switzerland.

As you know, Switzerland and Liechtenstein are currently under pressure from the EU. CNBC ran a story this week reporting these two former money stashing locals for world elites are being pressured by Brussels to loosen their secrecy laws. They don't want both the EU and the coming global taxation regimes openly undermined.

The Globalists are clearly signaling to their elite friends to move. Dubai was set up for this purpose. The globalists would not leave themselves without a replacement wealth haven. Dubai loves secrecy. There is no pesky democracy. The Emire is foreign bank-owned and knows on which side his bread is buttered.

As much as all this sounds incredible, this is the riddle which is Dubai. It's been carved out as a globalist free zone for the elite who will be residents there, but will not necessarily live there. Halliburton are already here.

Word has it the Emire wants the Burj Dubai (worlds' tallest tower) finished asap and it may not be completed inside. I find this hard to believe as there seems no shortage of money for 'his' projects. This is in contrast to private projects, which are reported to be struggling. Condo prices have pulled back by 30%-40%. UK banks have funded much of the mortgage money here. They have reduced their LTV to 50%, so deals from the 'uncouth' Londoners are drying up.

Hotel occupancies are currently at 33%, despite this being their peak season. Usually, it's impossible to get a quality hotel room at this time of year.

New laws decreed in August now prevent the Indian, Pakistani and Filippino workers from sharing lodgings. They must rent on their own. You can imagine the unrest this is causing.

The Emire has just cancelled residency visas for new property buyers. Very strange you would think. It's in line with his new elites only policy. I expect he'll announce the new rules shortly to attract a more wealthy resident class.

I can confirm people are sensing the hardening of financial borders under the uncertain cloud which will be a globalized and tracked financial system. The moderately wealthy (up to $100 million) seem to roaming the world looking for safety. I'm hearing the same thing in Hong Kong and Singapore as I saw in Dubai.

[Converted Lurker]

if this is basic Dubai ramping you're on the wrong forum and planet.

[Leroast]

this will create a rush out of investments.

[@contradevian]

This is why you need the "bust" go along with the "boom" to out the outright frauds and ponzi schemes. I wonder how many other "hedge funds" are little more than Ponzi's?

Edited December 15, 2008 by rover2000

[Converted Lurker]

This is why you need the "bust" go along with the "boom" to out the outright frauds and ponzi schemes. I wonder how many other "hedge funds" are little more than Ponzi's?

No doubt we'll eventually get to the bottom if it, but where are the assets? They have *stuff* "under management". Now (simplistically) if they had 50 billon shares in various companies that used to be worth a dollar each, but are now worth 20 cents each then fair enough, in some respects that would be expected, but to "lose" it all? No way. You begin to wonder if this loss is being exaggerated for the duck & cover reasons I mentioned up thread. If this is all genuine then there must be a huge chunk of recoverable assets surely. I could put my seven year old in front of the pure deal IG 'screen' and he'll say "it's all nearly red, or all blue, is that good or bad Dad?" Made-Off can't be any fukcin worse/better than that surely? Unless he's been an outright thief who simply did fukc all and has nicked/stashed the bulk of the money he/they must have something to show

Edited December 15, 2008 by Converted Lurker

[Dangerous Woman]

No doubt we'll eventually get to the bottom if it, but where are the assets? They have *stuff* "under management". Now (simplistically) if they had 50 billon shares in various companies that used to be worth a dollar each, but are now worth 20 cents each then fair enough, in some respects that would be expected, but to "lose" it all? No way. You begin to wonder if this loss is being exaggerated for the duck & cover reasons I mentioned up thread. If this is all genuine then there must be a huge chunk of recoverable assets surely. I could put my seven year old in front of the pure deal IG 'screen' and he'll say "it's all nearly red, or all blue, is that good or bad Dad?" Made-Off can't be any fukcin worse/better than that surely? Unless he's been an outright thief who simply did fukc all and has nicked/stashed the bulk of the money he/they must have something to show

He paid money from new investors to the older investors and the supply of new investors has just run out. I'm sure he's trousered plenty himself.

[Converted Lurker]

He paid money from new investors to the older investors and the supply of new investors has just run out. I'm sure he's trousered plenty himself.

suppose it's all down to how much time the arl tw@t is prepared to do in order to keep hold of his stash then, whether or not he gets to trial is another matter.

[sparko]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/moneybeat/2008/12...fs-50-bill.html

And then, sadly, this:

Personally I think its great ! What a cunning plan to ensure the greedy people of this planet feel some of the pain they cause. Knighthood for Mr Mad off please.

[greenalien]

it appears to just be a bunch of gamblers creaming off fees and commissions whilst passing ordinary people's money round and round, all the time creaming something off the top for themselves?

Could be that it simply is what it appears to be...

[Tiger Woods?]

Apparently he only had about 17 clients... directly ... and then each of them sold to thousands through little or lagre investment plans.

One of the reasons he "persuaded" people to buy was because firstly his returns were high but secondly and most importantly they paid apparently the best commissions in the business...... ie they created the best story in the industry for others to sell and then paid them the most to sell it.

Obviously he's a crook but the financial advisors recommending his snake oil weren't really doing their job .... apparently two of the red flags that should have alerted people was that the "fund" used the in house broker for all transactions (so the make up of the fund was never clear) and secondly their "accountant" (and this for a muti-Billion fund remenber) was a sort of one man band operating out of a single office........ I wonder how many people "knew" that... if the papers have come up with that info this quickly then you'd imagine there was some chatter which should have alerted the investment houses recommending this thing (if the info's true of course)..... perhaps the commissions were "too good to ignore".

"I've sold them a Madoff.... thats christmas in the Bahamas paid for, crack open the champagne"

What is disturbing is that there were questions raised about the unnatural performance of his fund in 2001...yet these banks still invested.

[tawny]

Interesting article on ponzi schemes, history and similarities to the housing market.

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2008/12...t-ponzi-scheme/

[Mr Yogi]

Am I the only one who finds the whole thing hilarious?

The thing that puzzles me though, is how he allowed himself to be collared. If I had been running that scheme for 40 years I think that I'd have had a few false IDs and boltholes lined up for when the sh1t inevitably hit the fan.

[The Masked Tulip]

The thing that puzzles me though, is how he allowed himself to be collared. If I had been running that scheme for 40 years I think that I'd have had a few false IDs and boltholes lined up for when the sh1t inevitably hit the fan.

Which is why people are begining to ask why he has owned up? Is there something deeper to this than others? Perhaps he knows where a lot of skeletons are in Wall Street and feels that he might get a better plea-bargain now if he is the first to go to the authorities?

[winkie]

So who can you trust, to give high returns for your money....no questions asked?

[Converted Lurker]

So who can you trust, to give high returns for your money....no questions asked?

probably your local friendly drug dealer or lend the money to the loan shark to lend to the unfortunates...come to think of it those two scenarios are not that far removed from the average day in the banking world anyway...

[The Masked Tulip]

So who can you trust, to give high returns for your money....no questions asked?

Yourself.

Seems the way forward is self investments with shares, ISAs and pensions via the likes of Selftrade and others but to use numerous different firms to buy your shares with and also spread your money around so you do not have all your eggs in one basket.

[thecrashingisles]

So who can you trust, to give high returns for your money....no questions asked?

Chris Lewis (ex-England cricketer)?

[The Masked Tulip]

Spielberg Among the Big Names Allegedly Burned by Madoff in $50 Billion Fraud Case

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6463587&page=1

[Converted Lurker]

Yourself.

Seems the way forward is self investments with shares, ISAs and pensions via the likes of Selftrade and others but to use numerous different firms to buy your shares with and also spread your money around so you do not have all your eggs in one basket.

I'd agree and suggest everyone takes it a stage further and begins to plan a totally self reliant future; without benefits or pensions. Relying on a pension pay out is now at worse reckless and at best highly optimistic given the fact that the integrity of the system is smashed into little pieces and the trust has gone for good.

[winkie]

I'd agree and suggest everyone takes it a stage further and begins to plan a totally self reliant future; without benefits or pensions. Relying on a pension pay out is now at worse reckless and at best highly optimistic given the fact that the integrity of the system is smashed into little pieces and the trust has gone for good.

Yes, sad but true...it seems the greedy will skim the cream, take the commission and leave any dregs for the investor to live on.

Yep, do it yourself then you only have yourself to blame when it all goes belly up.

[ophelia]

Whatever happened to not putting all your eggs in one basket? The rich can afford accountants and financial advisers to tell them this. Joe Public can't.

But hedge funds are available only to the rich.

[abharrisson]

Am I the only one reading all these Madoff articles thinking they have in part lost the plot... sure theres reference to some of the big personal losses in the US etc... but the majority of the money was invested through third parties eg HSBC fund xyz was 30% invested in Madoff etc..... so most of the $50BN will have been lost by pensioners and pension trustees on behalf of the pensioners and investors looking for a relatively safe haven in managed funds....... so while it feeds bearish amusement to hear how the mighty are fallen I think its fair to say that when they report RBS has lost $300m or whatever... its not actually RBS thats lost money its either or both those people who were persuaded by RBS to invest in funds with this component or the shareholders or just you and me through the govt shareholding. Its Joe taxpayer if you like that will have lost most through this scandal.

By the by I totally agree with other comments that we haven't heard the last of this and it really wouldn't be surprising if another hedge fund or private equity group or more than one didn't collapse.... just through the greed of chasing ever larger returns abd switching their risk radar off...... it also wouldn't suprise me if some suffer excess redemption requests due to clients getting the jitters.... whilst its not the best time to be asking where is my money invested and how reputable are the things its invested in... if the risk is a Madoff then if you don't know you'd be wise to ask questions now. After all a rash of people of invested in XY or Z fund becasue its famous or because of a 5 mon recommendation from an "advisor" or becasue of a star investor .... all these were reasons behind people investing in Madoff and probably one or all of them have a role to play in 80% of UK fund investment.