Halifax Nov Down 2.6% Mom, 14.9% Yoy

[BearlyBegun]

Blimey give the Chancellors plan a chance.

It's only been in place 4 days.

Yes, the houses that are for sale now will drop. I've always said that.

It's the houses that aren't for sale that haven't dropped a penny and won't.

A massive part of your HPC plan was repossessions. Now that's all been sorted with the new measures. You know, the ones you were crying about last night in your 26 page rant.

We will get through this downturn easily next year. I had even started to wonder if it was true all this doom and gloom. No way are we in for a long bad spell.

By this time next year it will be forgotten.

Hah. That made me laugh - it certainly did invoke some cursing, from me too actually...until i remembered that i didnt know much of the details. It wont be that helpful, from what i've seen since then.

Its fair enough that you wont necessarily suffer the next 12months+ Sibley, but seriously - do you actually think things will be alright next year? Its going to be carnage in property and economy in 2009.

[the primitive]

Blimey give the Chancellors plan a chance.

It's only been in place 4 days.

Yes, the houses that are for sale now will drop. I've always said that.

It's the houses that aren't for sale that haven't dropped a penny and won't.

A massive part of your HPC plan was repossessions. Now that's all been sorted with the new measures. You know, the ones you were crying about last night in your 26 page rant.

We will get through this downturn easily next year. I had even started to wonder if it was true all this doom and gloom. No way are we in for a long bad spell.

By this time next year it will be forgotten.

Wahey! There he is! Kudos for posting Sibley, seriously.

But what a load of tosh frankly. It is clear that rational argument bounces off you like pebbles off a Sherman tank. So I will just encourage you to keep posting for as long as you can manage, because you will one day have to admit you were wrong.

Early next year is when it will all properly kick off. Christmas is a big psychological point, lots of businesses will keep going until then. But January will be unemployment month I think.

[Sibley]

Before I start I must insist the Mods take this troll thing off and return my search and edit buttons.

It's not right. I'm not a troll.

[WTF a you talking about? Are you trying to say that if you don't try and sell your house it's worth more than an identical house that is for sale?

/quote]

Now you hang on a minute. I live in a small close with 26 houses in it.

In the last year one 3 bed house has actually been up for sale. It was on offer for £225,000. It lasted 3 months and sold 2 weeks ago for £214,000.

The houses in my road therefore have not dropped even 10%.

I speak to other neighbors and they wouldn't put their house up for sale until the market picks up.

So, how in Gods name are you going to live in my neck of the woods?

Next the workplace.

I have had 2 days off in 5 weeks.

My company is very busy now after a month or so of a quiet period. 2009 looks great.

Not a single person is 1% bothered about newspapers ,TV or Internet websites. Well excluding me that is and I was only bothered because I wanted to sell my house this year and will now have to wait until prices go up again.

The government has measures in place should a homeowner lose his/her job. It won't be as bad as everyone is making out and if you give the interest rate and VAT cuts a chance to work you'll see a Rosey 2010.

I don't know if the person I'm speaking to on here with all the big advice actually pushes trolleys round Asda supermarket car park. I'd prefer to take comfort in the PM or Chancellor thanks.

[jungllie jim]

Sibbers,

This last months have benefitted me to the tune of £50,000.......made up of £36,000 price crash and £14,000 savings.....likelyhood of getting back to your "ops normal"2007 somewhere between none and nil.

[the primitive]

Now you hang on a minute. I live in a small close with 26 houses in it.

In the last year one 3 bed house has actually been up for sale. It was on offer for £225,000. It lasted 3 months and sold 2 weeks ago for £214,000.

The houses in my road therefore have not dropped even 10%.

I speak to other neighbors and they wouldn't put their house up for sale until the market picks up.

So, how in Gods name are you going to live in my neck of the woods?

Next the workplace.

I have had 2 days off in 5 weeks.

My company is very busy now after a month or so of a quiet period. 2009 looks great.

Not a single person is 1% bothered about newspapers ,TV or Internet websites. Well excluding me that is and I was only bothered because I wanted to sell my house this year and will now have to wait until prices go up again.

The government has measures in place should a homeowner lose his/her job. It won't be as bad as everyone is making out and if you give the interest rate and VAT cuts a chance to work you'll see a Rosey 2010.

I don't know if the person I'm speaking to on here with all the big advice actually pushes trolleys round Asda supermarket car park. I'd prefer to take comfort in the PM or Chancellor thanks.

There's a guy on politicalbetting.com who is a bit like you. He actually BET £20 that there wouldn't be a recession before Q2 2009, based purely on the fact that his company was doing quite well. I.e. he is also a clueless ostrich like you. Tiny samples do not give the whole picture, so forgive me if your 1-road anecdote does not sway my view of the entire country.

[Nickolarge]

We will get through this downturn easily next year. I had even started to wonder if it was true all this doom and gloom. No way are we in for a long bad spell.

By this time next year it will be forgotten.

We will be quoting you on that prediction next Christmas.

[Bjørn]

Business doing well.

Send Sibleys.

[the end is a bit nigher]

I speak to other neighbors and they wouldn't put their house up for sale until the market picks up.

Why? Are they particularly stupid? Do they not do basic arithmetic or are they all wanting to downsize?

My company is very busy now after a month or so of a quiet period. 2009 looks great.

Mine just got rid of 11 people out of 160 and my contract ends tomorrow with hardly a job to be seen.

The government has measures in place should a homeowner lose his/her job. It won't be as bad as everyone is making out and if you give the interest rate and VAT cuts a chance to work you'll see a Rosey 2010.

As we know, the government has undertaken a PR exercise. They reckon it may stop 9,000 repossessions a year, plus they are merely extending their mortgage and paying more for the property. So what? We know the LR figures don't include repos but they have fallen over 10% year on year so it makes no difference.

And as for a reduction in prices of just over 2%, if it's been passed on. What a waste of time and effort. The one thing that would have made a difference would have been cheaper fuel but he put an extra tax on that to compensate. What a knob.

I don't know if the person I'm speaking to on here with all the big advice actually pushes trolleys round Asda supermarket car park. I'd prefer to take comfort in the PM or Chancellor thanks.

You do that. Remember that Angela Merkel and the rest of the EU think he's a tosser and that his and Obhama's plans are a disaster.

I think the reason the mods haven't taken your little troll away is because no-one can be as ******ing stupid as you appear to be and they have therefore assumed you are doing it to wind people up. Come on, be honest. You aren't that stupid. Are you???

[yellerkat]

Business doing well.

Send Sibleys.

ED: Had a sh!t day today; but that made up for it!

Edited December 4, 2008 by yellerKat

[yermum]

Sibley

So, how in Gods name are you going to live in my neck of the woods?

Um, mate, you live in Maidstone. The question should have been, why would you want to?

Reminds me of an amusing response to this morning's 'house price fall' article in the Guardian.

Oh no!

How will I keep funding my consumer lifestyle?

How will I keep lording it over young people who can't afford a house and have to overstretch themselves by six times their income in order to take the plunge?

I bought my one-bed flat in Guildford for £20.85 and a small rottweiler back in 1986

- willwordsmith

[red]

Yes, the houses that are for sale now will drop. I've always said that.

It's the houses that aren't for sale that haven't dropped a penny and won't.

Remarkable logic.

So a house not for sale next to one that sells for half of last year's price, say, will retain its value based on what, exactly?

I think you'll find, Sibbers, that houses that sell are setting the market rate, not those belonging to people who won't sell and who are simply in denial.

[bobthe~]

Look, we are staring at 20% drops nationwide already, since last August. It took years for that to happen last time.

Actually it never happened last time, not nationally anyway, and not in the Halifax figures. The peak to trough was 70k to just over 60k IIRC.

Some areas went down 30-33% at different times, but Scotland and Norn Iron were untouched.

And flats in my part of London went down around 45%.

Mine didn't recover its 1987 purchase price until 1999 when we sold it.

But in those days we had high interest rates, so the banks could re-capitalise and stay in business, and we had high inflation so the debts became manageable for those of us in work.

Not like today

[bobthe~]

Sibley

Um, mate, you live in Maidstone. The question should have been, why would you want to?

No it's really posh here honest, we have good skools and evrywun is rich cuz ov der houses innit.

Edit cuz I spellt skools wiv a c-h

Edited December 4, 2008 by bobthe~

[scuuzeme]

Sibley

Um, mate, you live in Maidstone. The question should have been, why would you want to?

If you'd grown up in Paddock Wood then Maidstone would be the bright shining lights of high achievement.

For everyone else, however ...

[scuuzeme]

Actually it never happened last time, not nationally anyway, and not in the Halifax figures. The peak to trough was 70k to just over 60k IIRC.

Some areas went down 30-33% at different times, but Scotland and Norn Iron were untouched.

And flats in my part of London went down around 45%.

Mine didn't recover its 1987 purchase price until 1999 when we sold it.

But in those days we had high interest rates, so the banks could re-capitalise and stay in business, and we had high inflation so the debts became manageable for those of us in work.

Not like today

Yeah, I know, just couldn't be bothered to check it thoroughly and knew he wouldn't believe me if I told him the raw truth.

But Maidstone and environs in particular fell 30% easily, I know, I was in the region. Our home "suffered" the same, but the next was far cheaper in terms of difference so we won big time, as most people will with an HPC.

Your point about inflation is particularly telling, however, and few people remember what that really meant.

[Guest Mr Parry]

Sibley

Um, mate, you live in Maidstone. The question should have been, why would you want to?

Reminds me of an amusing response to this morning's 'house price fall' article in the Guardian.

- willwordsmith

I know where Sibley lives and it's actually a very nice part of the country.

Maidstone is okay, but he's about 20 mins from there.

[the primitive]

I know where Sibley lives and it's actually a very nice part of the country.

Maidstone is okay, but he's about 20 mins from there.

You know where he lives? Is he your best mate then? ARE YOU A DOUBLE AGENT MR P?! I think we should be told or your exciting range of avatars might have to be replaced with a troll!

[shedfish]

look at this - prices are falling faster than journos can type!

Property tycoon forced to sell £20 million home after going bust

A property tycoon has been forced to put his £15 million London home on the market after his companies went bust as a result of the global economic downturn.

[Guest Mr Parry]

You know where he lives? Is he your best mate then? ARE YOU A DOUBLE AGENT MR P?! I think we should be told or your exciting range of avatars might have to be replaced with a troll!

Grief . . . don't you read his posts!

Sibs lives in a little village called Yalding.

I picked up on this because I spent 18 months there until Sept 2007 on a bl00dy horrible regeneration site.

[housespider]

We will get through this downturn easily next year. I had even started to wonder if it was true all this doom and gloom. No way are we in for a long bad spell.

By this time next year it will be forgotten.

Yes it will be forgotten because things will be so bad for so many this time next year what is happening now will be insignificant in comparison.......

[Guest Mr Parry]

We will get through this downturn easily next year. I had even started to wonder if it was true all this doom and gloom. No way are we in for a long bad spell.

By this time next year it will be forgotten.

Yes it will be forgotten because things will be so bad for so many this time next year what is happening now will be insignificant in comparison.......

Now that I'll go with.

[bearbullfence]

IMPORTANT!!! Don't forget people, this graph is showing year on year figures, meaning that it will level out in the next month or two. Do not panic when it does this!

- not meaning to patronise anyone here, but not everyone is comfortable interpreting graphs.

The graph is falling at the moment because the annual rate of fall is still increasing. As of next month or so we will reach the point at which prices are falling at a constant year-on-year rate and the graph will go flat. It may even tick up a bit like the NW did last month. This does not mean prices are increasing again, they are just falling less fast. Do not rush out and buy a house when this happens!

This man speeks the truth... not every one was lucky enough to get at least a C in maths. ;-)

[Miss Madam]

We will get through this downturn easily next year. I had even started to wonder if it was true all this doom and gloom. No way are we in for a long bad spell.

By this time next year it will be forgotten.

Yes it will be forgotten because things will be so bad for so many this time next year what is happening now will be insignificant in comparison.......

I totally agree!!!

I think preaching to Sibbers is a no-hoper, you cannot reason with someone who thinks the way to increase his house's value is to take it off the market (this is the kid with his eyes closed, his fingers in his ears, humming to himself to make the monster go away).....He thinks that whilst any depreciation in the value of other houses currently on the market will not impact him, as his house is not for sale. Even if an identical house next door to Sibbers halved in value, according to Sibley - his is still worth what Kirsty and Phil promised him at the peak in prices last seen wooooooo - 15 months ago now isn't it? He is a deluded seller, hence he has taken his house off the market. It's a shame that the reverse argument hasn't lodged in his brain i.e. if paper losses don't affect a house not for sale now then paper gains do not affect houses which didn't sell at the peak i.e. if you didn't sell your house at peak, it is no longer 'worth' that figure anymore and will not be until we reach an equivalent peak - which may be some time. The concept of paper gains is eluding him to date. Sibbers can you understand the concept that share prices go up and down and that even if you don't want to sell your shares but instead choose to hold them, they are still only worth the market valuation - not what you paid for them, or what you may hope the Christmas fairy will give you for them??? Can you then take his metaphor and apply it to the housing market? Otherwise you sound like Grant Bovey with his profits that have yet to materialise. You know what I'm a millionaire who's millions have failed to appear in my bank account... no really, it'll happen soon, honest, .... *looks at watch*, *shuffles feet*

[Guest Mr Parry]

I totally agree!!!

I think preaching to Sibbers is a no-hoper, you cannot reason with someone who thinks the way to increase his house's value is to take it off the market (this is the kid with his eyes closed, his fingers in his ears, humming to himself to make the monster go away).....

He thinks that whilst any depreciation in the value of other houses currently on the market will not impact him, as his house is not for sale. Even if an identical house next door to Sibbers halved in value, according to Sibley - his is still worth what Kirsty and Phil promised him at the peak in prices last seen wooooooo 15 months ago now isn't it?

He is a deluded seller, hence he has taken his house off the market. It's a shame that the reverse argument hasn't lodged in his brain i.e. if paper losses don't affect a house not for sale now then paper gains do not affect houses which didn't sell at the peak i.e. if you didn't sell your house at peak, it is no longer 'worth' that figure anymore and will not be until we reach an equivalent peak - which may be some time.

The concept of paper gains is eluding him to date. Sibbers can you understand the concept that share prices go up and down and that even if you don't want to sell your shares but instead choose to hold them, they are still only worth the market valuation - not what you paid for them, or what you may hope the Christmas fairy will give you for them???

Can you then take his metaphor and apply it to the housing market? Otherwise you sound like Grant Bovey with his profits that have yet to materialise. You know what I'm a millionaire who's millions have failed to appear in my bank account... no really, it'll happen soon, honest, .... *looks at watch*, *shuffles feet*

Miss Madam,

These are paragraphs.

[bobthe~]

Grief . . . don't you read his posts!

Sibs lives in a little village called Yalding.

I picked up on this because I spent 18 months there until Sept 2007 on a bl00dy horrible regeneration site.

Just looked on RM.

Properties there aren't that expensive relative to other posh areas (1.1M top priced property). Maybe that is why Sibley is saying prices aren't coming down.

Some friends moved to East Horsley, which is also a small village and that hadn't seen any reductions either (or so they said). Maybe there is a village mentality that means the global financial "downturn" passes them by. It would explain why Sibley thinks it is all made up.