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Guest mattsta1964
The fact that David Davis, a supporter of the death penalty, now seems positively liberal shows you just how extreme the Labour Party have become.

They are fascists in Saville row suits........ENDOF

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The fact that David Davis, a supporter of the death penalty, now seems positively liberal shows you just how extreme the Labour Party have become.

Did you hear the interview? I would link it but I'm unsure how to do it.

I don't believe that David Davies was ever anything but a liberal, in the true sense of the word. He resigned over a principle concerning liberty - 42 days detention without charge.

Support of the death penalty may be viewed as illiberal by the leftie intelligentsia, but that doesn't mean it is. A policy is liberal to the extent that it preserves maximum freedom for maximum number of individuals. The death penalty could be viewed as a very liberal policy inasmuch as it offers to the majority total freedom from the fear of re-offending by a minority of murderers.

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Support of the death penalty may be viewed as illiberal by the leftie intelligentsia, but that doesn't mean it is. A policy is liberal to the extent that it preserves maximum freedom for maximum number of individuals. The death penalty could be viewed as a very liberal policy inasmuch as it offers to the majority total freedom from the fear of re-offending by a minority of murderers.

Indeed; bring back slavery.

Edited by Cogs
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Hang on. If the Civil Servant broke the Official Secrets Act by giving info to the MP then what if the MP asked him, or encouraged him, to do it?

Is that illegal?

I.e. is it illegal to encourage someone to break the Official Secrets Act?

:huh:

Edited by SHERWICK
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Did you hear the interview? I would link it but I'm unsure how to do it.

I don't believe that David Davies was ever anything but a liberal, in the true sense of the word. He resigned over a principle concerning liberty - 42 days detention without charge.

Support of the death penalty may be viewed as illiberal by the leftie intelligentsia, but that doesn't mean it is. A policy is liberal to the extent that it preserves maximum freedom for maximum number of individuals. The death penalty could be viewed as a very liberal policy inasmuch as it offers to the majority total freedom from the fear of re-offending by a minority of murderers.

Unless, of course, an innocent person is executed. The death penalty is also opposed on moral grounds by many religious groups; the catholic church are hardly leftie liberals.

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Indeed; bring back slavery.

Oh, for goodness' sake! Capital punishment is a judicial response to the ultimate crime - the pre-meditated taking of the life of another. It is a judicial response that bestows the highest possible value on life by extracting the maximum penalty for taking that life, and thus upholds individual freedom - the freedom to life.

Enslaving another is an offence against individual liberty. It is a crime, not a judicial punishment for crime.

How on earth do you manage to equate the two?

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Death Penalty?

When an innocent gets executed by the state, then in effect the state has itself commited murder. In which case, which member of the state claims responsibility and gets the noose? Eye for an eye and all!?!?

Bar a complete breakdown of society, capital punishment will never come back, no matter how hard certain people stamp their feet, so get over it.

However I do believe a life sentence should indeed mean life.

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Guest X-QUORK
Oh, for goodness' sake! Capital punishment is a judicial response to the ultimate crime - the pre-meditated taking of the life of another. It is a judicial response that bestows the highest possible value on life by extracting the maximum penalty for taking that life, and thus upholds individual freedom - the freedom to life.

Enslaving another is an offence against individual liberty. It is a crime, not a judicial punishment for crime.

How on earth do you manage to equate the two?

Capital punishment is State sanctioned murder, don't try and frilly it up as something respectable. It demeans the country that practices it and certainly in the case of the United States, doesn't do much to deter crime.

Back on topic, why did the police have to arrest Damian Green, surely asking for a witness statement should be sufficient?

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Capital punishment is State sanctioned murder, don't try and frilly it up as something respectable. It demeans the country that practices it and certainly in the case of the United States, doesn't do much to deter crime.

Back on topic, why did the police have to arrest Damian Green, surely asking for a witness statement should be sufficient?

And they could have asked a judge for a search warrant, negating the need to arrest.

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Death Penalty?

When an innocent gets executed by the state, then in effect the state has itself commited murder. In which case, which member of the state claims responsibility and gets the noose? Eye for an eye and all!?!?

Bar a complete breakdown of society, capital punishment will never come back, no matter how hard certain people stamp their feet, so get over it.

However I do believe a life sentence should indeed mean life.

There is a world of difference between state-sponsored murder outside of the judicial process and capital punishment.

But I do not want to sidetrack this thread any further and I apologise for having taken the bait re David Davies liberal credentials (or otherwise) as a supporter of capital punishment. The point I wished to make was that supporting capital punishment is NOT illiberal, imo.

I think we should now return to the subject in hand.

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There is a world of difference between state-sponsored murder outside of the judicial process and capital punishment.

But I do not want to sidetrack this thread any further and I apologise for having taken the bait re David Davies liberal credentials (or otherwise) as a supporter of capital punishment. The point I wished to make was that supporting capital punishment is NOT illiberal, imo.

I think we should now return to the subject in hand.

First answer the question: Should a government official be executed for the execution of an innocent person?

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The truth is starting to leak out :

Torygraph abandons Green

Interesting reading, particularly between the lines.

p

Back on topic: what The Torygraph actually says:

Row over claim Damian Green 'groomed' Whitehall mole

The allegation has outraged senior Conservatives who have accused detectives of mounting a politically-inspired witch-hunt based on “flimsy and trivial” grounds.

In the Comment section:

Heads should roll

Denis MacShane argues that arresting Tory MP Damian Green for doing his job is a mammoth breach of parliamentary privilege

Arresting MPs happens in dictatorships

Our freedoms are under threat from a government desperate to save its own credibility, says Janet Daley.

ixdbig01.jpg

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First answer the question: Should a government official be executed for the execution of an innocent person?

No, because it wouldn't be pre-meditated murder.

A judicial execution is NOT the same as murder, however much you may like to think it is. It is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime that a society agrees upon and collectively allows to be administered by the judiciary (NOT the government, note. We have separation between government and judiciary for very good reason.)

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No, because it wouldn't be pre-meditated murder.

A judicial execution is NOT the same as murder, however much you may like to think it is. It is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime that a society agrees upon and collectively allows to be administered by the judiciary (NOT the government, note. We have separation between government and judiciary for very good reason.)

:lol::lol:

Erm, if you say so.

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Sorry for going off-topic. I'll say one last thing on the death penalty matter and leave it at that; I find it bizarre that some people are outraged at the government's infringement of rights in Damian Green's case, but seem to think it a good idea that the state can legally murder people. Some very confused people on this forum.

edit for clarity

Edited by carbonoid
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Sorry for going off-topic. I'll say one last thing on the death penalty matter and leave it at that; I find it bizarre that some people are outraged at the government's infringement of rights in Damian Green's case, but seem to think it a good idea that the state can legally murder people. Some very confused people on this forum.

I am utterly against the death penalty, personally... but I am more than curious why Labour repealed the death penalty for treason... where the punishment had lain dormant for so many years.

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Guest X-QUORK
A judicial execution is NOT the same as murder, however much you may like to think it is.

You seem to be one of those people who thinks that by stating something with conviction it will make it true. I think I'll have a go.

A judicial execution IS the same as murder, however much you may like to think it isn't.

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Sorry for going off-topic. I'll say one last thing on the death penalty matter and leave it at that; I find it bizarre that some people are outraged at the government's infringement of rights in Damian Green's case, but seem to think it a good idea that the state can legally murder people. Some very confused people on this forum.

edit for clarity

John Smith MP

Robin Cook MP

Dr David Kelly

RIP

One should not go out for walks in the countryside.

That fresh air is lethal.

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No, because it wouldn't be pre-meditated murder.

A judicial execution is NOT the same as murder, however much you may like to think it is. It is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime that a society agrees upon and collectively allows to be administered by the judiciary (NOT the government, note. We have separation between government and judiciary for very good reason.)

God only know's what the correct punishment for rape would be under your preferred judicial code.

edit to say, 'Yes, I lied about not mentioning this again'.

Edited by carbonoid
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