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Shadow Minister Arrested


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brainwashed party faithfull of whatever hue. Political leaders have no interest whatsoever in genuinely advancing the cause of or protecting the real interests of the people they purport to represent. Why would you defend them?

Yes but there are problems with the real alternative, ie putting them against the wall , ok you have lots of dead people...

Now what?....

And as such we will need people to band together and cooperate and they will form factions , fight for a bit realise fighting is kind of costly in terms of man power lives and time and then decide to have a chat , and vote for it, and again we end up in the same place all over again....

Or the beneviolent dictatorship, question is who gets to be the dictator? , the communists in China and the dictators in Taiwan before it changed to representitive democracy won the right to be the dictators in a sea of blood...

Changes to happen without a sea of blood ie Taiwan changed semi peacefully , do happen though..,

Edited by kennichi
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Isn't anyone on here going to respond to the Torygraph challenge? All you have to do is answer -

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

You Tory creeps have gone very quiet. What's your problem?

==========================================================================

Tory creeps / Nu-Labour creeps.........childish, infantile yah-boo politics. Why does anyone buy into this "my stupid idealogical mindset is better than your stupid idealogical mindset " nonsense? How about some independent thought and some original thinking instead of spouting partisan rhetoric to attack anything that doesn't fit your silly prejudices. Not just you, Patprimer, but all those who are enthusiastic, brainwashed party faithfull of whatever hue. Political leaders have no interest whatsoever in genuinely advancing the cause of or protecting the real interests of the people they purport to represent. Why would you defend them?

I often wonder if evolution and non-selective breeding has reduced the human being to two distinct factions, each one capable of supporting one idealogical role model (like dogs in a pack) or that a super-intelligent elite have deliberately created the hegelian dialectic of two-party politics to further their unsavoury ends...

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Yes but there are problems with the real alternative, ie putting them against the wall , ok you have lots of dead people...

Now what?....

And as such we will need people to band together and cooperate and they will form factions , fight for a bit realise fighting is kind of costly in terms of man power lives and time and then decide to have a chat , and vote for it, and again we end up in the same place all over again....

Or the beneviolent dictatorship, question is who gets to be the dictator? , the communists in China and the dictators in Taiwan before it changed to representitive democracy won the right to be the dictators in a sea of blood...

Changes to happen without a sea of blood ie Taiwan changed semi peacefully , do happen though..,

========================================================================

Yes. That all makes perfect sense. Thanks.

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Yep - if the police were to apply this law to all the way they have applied it to Green and the source of the leak, most of Whitehall and Parliament would be arrested, particularly Government ministers.

Why was the source of the leak arrested? Were there any National Security implications? If not, surely this is an HR issue. I work in the public sector. If I leak information against the state, is that a criminal offence?

Maybe the source was Daniel James - another trusted member of public service.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7711341.stm

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I cannot belive that they are getting away with this the opposition is nulll- the army/queen /tony ben should be stepping in ,government impeahed i'm prepered to die for this i am actually afraid of typing this, do not ****** with my freedom

As I have been posting on this tiresome, obvious forum for some time, we are within 15 years of a civil war in the UK.

Bring it on is all I can say....

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Some more from the FT:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3b47d1de-bd8f-11...00779fd18c.html

Quote:

"Governments must be jealous of giving the police too much power and of vague, open-ended offences. Unaccountable police forces with such loosely defined prerogatives are a menace to liberty. But there is little reason to hope that this administration will recognise this. The draconian anti-terror legislation it has introduced alone has given the police so much power that it has been used to detain an elderly heckler at a Labour party conference, stop protests and, last month, to freeze the assets of Icelandic banks. The government must stop making free with civil liberties."

I think they've made up their minds which way the wind's blowing.

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Who gives a shit.

Personally, I reckon the real reason he was busted was the fear that he MIGHT have something really HOT, and that "may" still be the case...

I've been considering this. Perhaps the government knows more about the Mumbai terrorists than it cares to admit!. In fact the more I think about it the more credible this seems.

Perhaps they had information that could have in some way alerted the Indian authorities or perhaps it is simply that some of them are British nationals.

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Some more from the FT:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3b47d1de-bd8f-11...00779fd18c.html

Quote:

"Governments must be jealous of giving the police too much power and of vague, open-ended offences. Unaccountable police forces with such loosely defined prerogatives are a menace to liberty. But there is little reason to hope that this administration will recognise this. The draconian anti-terror legislation it has introduced alone has given the police so much power that it has been used to detain an elderly heckler at a Labour party conference, stop protests and, last month, to freeze the assets of Icelandic banks. The government must stop making free with civil liberties."

I think they've made up their minds which way the wind's blowing.

Thanks for that. At last a bit of reasonned analysis!

It sounds like the anti-terror laws, which I guess both sides of the house voted for, need to be amended to curtail police powers a bit in areas where they are not really needed.

This is about the law of unintended consequences, much ado about nothing in my opinion. And surprise surprise, both left and right are responsible for this **** up. How predictable :) .

Edited by williamdb
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It sounds like the anti-terror laws, which I guess both sides of the house voted for, need to be amended to curtail police powers a bit in areas where they are not really needed.

The anti-terror laws most certainly need amendment - actually repealing almost all of them would be the best thing to do - but that's not relevant to this case. The police are using the common law offense of abetting misconduct in a public office as an excuse for this. The fact that they used counter-terrorism plods to feel Damian Green's collar is by the way, they could just as well have used standard coppers and have done it twenty years ago.

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It sounds like the anti-terror laws, which I guess both sides of the house voted for, need to be amended to curtail police powers a bit in areas where they are not really needed.

Ken Clark rightfully pointed out in 2001 that there was no need for any more anti-terror legislation yet we are now approaching Labour's 5th (or 6th) anti-terror bill. I believe that this legislation was always intended to be used (and abused) for other purposes.

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Isn't anyone on here going to respond to the Torygraph challenge? All you have to do is answer -

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

You Tory creeps have gone very quiet. What's your problem?

p

All you have to do is answer. Why does Labour do this if it such terrible behavour.

This type of business has been going on for years, and Labour is in the thick of it. That is why they call it spin and yes the Tories were spinning after Labour spun, after the Tories. In the early days of New Labour the whole thing was run on an nod and a wink between Tony Creep and the New Labour Groupies of the media.

Why didn't Tony (Creep) Blair disclose there were no weapons of mass destruction to Parliment, rather than quietly briefing the media that we were about to be blitzed in 20 minutes by intercontinental nuclear weapons... and then Dr Kelly got quietly put down in a wood... Lest we forget. Disclosing to the media is the only way when the country is being run by bullies.

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So, why haven't you asked yourself what were the special circumstances that made them confident enough to take 'this approach' in respect of Green. Open your eyes.

p

What on earth are you rambling on about.

The stuff being leaked to Green appears to have been crappy Whitehall data on crime and immigration which were almost certainly complete b*ll*cks even before they had been put through the governments spin machine. It wasn't classified data.

Green was arrested "on suspicion of conspiring to commit misconduct in a public office and aiding and abetting, counselling or procuring misconduct in a public office"..

These are not anti-terror or sedition charges. Instead, they are usually brought when there is evidence that an official has been involved in corrupt financial practices, when in office. They hardly merit the kind of events that occurred last week.

Although I am no lover of Gordon Brown I suspect that he had no role in this fiasco. Nor did the hapless Jacqui Smith.

What appears to have happened is that the Home Office has been plagued by embarrassing leaks over recent months.

The head of the Home Office, Sir David Normington, decided to call in the police to help him investigate the matter. Under normal circumstances the Met would probably have bounced the request back to Whitehall because the leaks in question did not involve national security or an obvious criminal offense. Unfortunately, the request from the Home Office arrived just at the time that the existing head of the Met Sir Ian Blair was on his way out, having been fired by Boris Johnson and a lot of top coppers were angling for his job, including the current incumbent Sir Paul Stephenson.

Since Normington is on the panel who appoints the Met Commissioner it seems certain members of the Old Bill thought this was a great time to ingratiate themselves with him by doing his bidding. They therefore charged off and arrested a member of the Shadow Cabinet without thinking through all the likely political ramifications. In addition they compounded this idiocy by raiding the MPs Office in the House of Commons with assistance of another fool in the person of Mr Speaker Martin, a man with no brain and no real understanding of the historical importance of his job. The poor old DPP who would have the hopeless task of bringing any charges against Green to court were only advised of his arrest shortly before it occurred.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle5258476.ece

At the end of this fiasco I expect the following people to have their careers blown up.

The first is obviously the person within the Home Office behind the leaks. He will lose his job and never get another public sector job but will probably avoids prosecution. He might make few bob flogging his side of the story to the media.

The second is Sir Paul Stephenson who has probably blown his chances of becoming the next Met Commissioner.

The third is Speaker Martin. He has lost the confidence of both the Conservative and Liberal Democrat opposition as well as a number of Labour MPs. Unless he has some good explanation as to why he failed to defend Parliamentary privilege he may find himself voted out of his post before the week is out.

The fourth may be Sir David Normington whose action triggered the whole affair. The results may not have been what he intended but he was to close the events when they exploded to avoid any damage.

The one person not taking a fall will be Damien Green. The DPP will NOT be prosecuting him on the charges relating to his arrest since their chances of making a successful case in court against a public interest defence are nil, as the recent Sally Murrer case proved. Instead he his going to become a Tory martyr for the cause of freedom. The irony of which is going to be the lasting legacy of this sorry tale.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle5254372.ece

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What on earth are you rambling on about.

The stuff being leaked to Green appears to have been crappy Whitehall data on crime and immigration which were almost certainly complete b*ll*cks even before they had been put through the governments spin machine. It wasn't classified data.

Green was arrested "on suspicion of conspiring to commit misconduct in a public office and aiding and abetting, counselling or procuring misconduct in a public office"..

These are not anti-terror or sedition charges. Instead, they are usually brought when there is evidence that an official has been involved in corrupt financial practices, when in office. They hardly merit the kind of events that occurred last week.

Although I am no lover of Gordon Brown I suspect that he had no role in this fiasco. Nor did the hapless Jacqui Smith.

What appears to have happened is that the Home Office has been plagued by embarrassing leaks over recent months.

The head of the Home Office, Sir David Normington, decided to call in the police to help him investigate the matter. Under normal circumstances the Met would probably have bounced the request back to Whitehall because the leaks in question did not involve national security or an obvious criminal offense. Unfortunately, the request from the Home Office arrived just at the time that the existing head of the Met Sir Ian Blair was on his way out, having been fired by Boris Johnson and a lot of top coppers were angling for his job, including the current incumbent Sir Paul Stephenson.

Since Normington is on the panel who appoints the Met Commissioner it seems certain members of the Old Bill thought this was a great time to ingratiate themselves with him by doing his bidding. They therefore charged off and arrested a member of the Shadow Cabinet without thinking through all the likely political ramifications. In addition they compounded this idiocy by raiding the MPs Office in the House of Commons with assistance of another fool in the person of Mr Speaker Martin, a man with no brain and no real understanding of the historical importance of his job. The poor old DPP who would have the hopeless task of bringing any charges against Green to court were only advised of his arrest shortly before it occurred.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle5258476.ece

At the end of this fiasco I expect the following people to have their careers blown up.

The first is obviously the person within the Home Office behind the leaks. He will lose his job and never get another public sector job but will probably avoids prosecution. He might make few bob flogging his side of the story to the media.

The second is Sir Paul Stephenson who has probably blown his chances of becoming the next Met Commissioner.

The third is Speaker Martin. He has lost the confidence of both the Conservative and Liberal Democrat opposition as well as a number of Labour MPs. Unless he has some good explanation as to why he failed to defend Parliamentary privilege he may find himself voted out of his post before the week is out.

The fourth may be Sir David Normington whose action triggered the whole affair. The results may not have been what he intended but he was to close the events when they exploded to avoid any damage.

The one person not taking a fall will be Damien Green. The DPP will NOT be prosecuting him on the charges relating to his arrest since their chances of making a successful case in court against a public interest defence are nil, as the recent Sally Murrer case proved. Instead he his going to become a Tory martyr for the cause of freedom. The irony of which is going to be the lasting legacy of this sorry tale.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle5254372.ece

Interesting views and obviously angry ones.

But you're missing one vital piece of information.

p

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I cannot belive that they are getting away with this the opposition is nulll- the army/queen /tony ben should be stepping in ,government impeahed i'm prepered to die for this i am actually afraid of typing this, do not ****** with my freedom

Liberating is'nt it, not bieng afraid to say what you think...nothing wil happen to you, they just want you to think there will.

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Give it a rest with the ...........'s. There is no form of writing that replaces proper sentences, punctuation and capital letters with loads of dots.

Apathy and Conservatism go hand in hand. The Tories are all about preserving a mythical bygone golden age. It never existed and even if it did we could not go back to it. When did you last hear any mention of Tory 'activists'. You don't because that type of right winger thinks that those who actually do get up and do something are all oiks of some sort.

That's why we have the BNP and UKIP. For right wingers who want to do a bit more than write a letter to the Times or Telegraph.

....stick to your lower form of vocabulary ..suits you...obviously you have never heard of conversational narrative...apathy is for Labour voters searching for the fulfillment of promises never delivered...never mind ...this will continue....promises and boom and bang and bust.....you may have extreme parties in mind but democracy will return with a vengeance and sweep all the wasters aside... <_<

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That's very interesting.

That timing is tooooo coincidental.

What appears to have happened is that the Home Office has been plagued by embarrassing leaks over recent months.

The head of the Home Office, Sir David Normington, decided to call in the police to help him investigate the matter. Under normal circumstances the Met would probably have bounced the request back to Whitehall because the leaks in question did not involve national security or an obvious criminal offense. Unfortunately, the request from the Home Office arrived just at the time that the existing head of the Met Sir Ian Blair was on his way out, having been fired by Boris Johnson and a lot of top coppers were angling for his job, including the current incumbent Sir Paul Stephenson.

Since Normington is on the panel who appoints the Met Commissioner it seems certain members of the Old Bill thought this was a great time to ingratiate themselves with him by doing his bidding. They therefore charged off and arrested a member of the Shadow Cabinet without thinking through all the likely political ramifications. In addition they compounded this idiocy by raiding the MPs Office in the House of Commons with assistance of another fool in the person of Mr Speaker Martin, a man with no brain and no real understanding of the historical importance of his job. The poor old DPP who would have the hopeless task of bringing any charges against Green to court were only advised of his arrest shortly before it occurred.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle5254372.ece

Edited by bootfair
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Guest Mr Parry

BBC is plugging the story. Not biased towards Labour to the BBC's credit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7757063.stm

I particularly enjoyed the last three paragraphs.

John O'Connor, former head of the London police unit, the flying squad, told BBC Radio 5Live he found it difficult to believe the government didn't know about the investigation.

He said: "If the prime minister and the home secretary were unaware of this police activity - then they must be utterly incompetent.

"And if they were aware of it then that makes them really quite dangerous. So I think whatever way, whatever path they choose it doesn't put them in a good light."

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