Shadow Minister Arrested

[cockrobin]

Politics in this country is embarrassing, we have three political parties to choose from, none of them has any members with enough experience to run a country.

One party always says how it will rid politics of sleaze, only to increase it to new levels. They say they will support the working class, then instead taxes them out of existence to pay for those that are apparently "incompacitated", and you can guarantee the economy will be ruined after their 2nd term.

The next Party tries to repair the economic ruin left by the last party only to get voted out before they actually achieve anything.

The other party never gets a chance to do anything.

The UK electorate has two choices:

1. Vote Tory or Lib-Dem.

or

2. Don't vote at all.

If I could afford I'd move to another country.

[SNACR]

And yet people still vote for them, and their reasons are because it is better than having the other lot in. I lived through the eighties and so did my family, it wasn't so bad, I can remember my dad celebrating when Labour were voted out in 79. I can also remember the look on my dad's face the night we stayed up to watch the 1997 election, he was depressed for months, this is where it all turns to shit were his words.

Democracy in this country, and many other western countres, is effectively a choice between two brands of sh1t. The difference being the blue brand usually has slightly superior managerial competence and real world commercial experience.

I sometimes wonder if phrases like 'if you don't bother to vote you can't complain how the country's run' aren't just cunning memes to keep the whole ridiculous charade alive.

[Nickolarge]

Contrast the media interest in this story with that of Ross and Brand What a ****ed up country we are!

You have hit the nail on the head but in a way not intended.

The media interest in Ross and Brand was strong because they are part of the media.

The BBC because it was about them and the others because it was a chance to have a pop at the Beeb.

MP's of all persuasions are kicking off about this arrest because he is an MP nearly as much as for the freedom and liberty reasons. Should MP's be above the law? I don't think that would be a good idea. Is the law that was used wrong? Possibly. Or is it a good law used wrongly? If MP's don't want to be arrested for this kind of thing they should abolish or change the law so that we all can enjoy those 'freedoms'. They should not argue for some kind of immunity.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Nickolarge

[Nickolarge]

JimmyMac seems to have an inability to form a reasoned argument. Here are a few sample phrases from his recent posts, a testament to our now great educashun system:

Now f*** off you [email protected]

You are complete scum.

Get it? Now go away.

I have no interest in engaging scum like you in debate other than to tell you to f*** off. Right?

d!ckhead

you can f*** off too

are you completely naive and dim?

you really are very stupid aren't you?

idiot.

I absolutely detest these New Keynesian idiots.

You are a fool. I am done with you.

Thanks for that. I'm not the only one on the end of his razor sharp wit then.

I already regret posting the IQ stuff but I just got fed up with the 'idiot and fool' thing(It was late and I had downed a few by then!). He fell right into the trap though. You would have thought that he might have guessed that I had something with which to back my claim. I'd lay money that he doesn't believe me anyway .

[Nickolarge]

I quite understand your disappointment, anger and helplessness in such a situation. In your position I, too, would lash out at all and sundry hoping to steer attention away from the elephant in the room. That is, that one of your MP's is arrested and held for nine hours under such serious circumstances that even the Commons authorities wanted to assist the police by allowing the unprecedented authority to search his office. You must be shattered to be let down so badly. You have my sympathy.

p

Imagine what they would all be posting now if it was a Labour front bencher in cuffs .

[Thunderbird 900]

Pat the Prat...QUOTE

"I quite understand your disappointment, anger and helplessness in such a situation. In your position I, too, would lash out at all and sundry hoping to steer attention away from the elephant in the room.

There is only one elephant in this room and that is you PatPrimer. Tell me Pat, were you born with a brain that could think on it's own, or are you some sort of pre programmed NU Labour "USEFUL IDIOT"? Your inability to understand right from wrong and your slavish devotion to Brown's idiotic running of this country leads me to believe that you really are stupid and beyond reason.

Wikipedia...

In political jargon, the term "useful idiot" was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in western countries and the alleged attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and being cynically used.

The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, or hostile government, whether or not the group is Communist in nature

[patprimer74]

The Torygraph is laying the ground for the time it has to wipe it's hands of Cameron and Green. Wise move, Torygraph!

"Mr Cameron and Mr Green may yet have questions of their own to answer too. If the disclosure of the documents Mr Green is alleged to have obtained was so clearly in the public interest, why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

I wonder why? Do you lot wonder why?

It's gradually seeping out. It'll all make sense when you see the full story. Meanwhile, the Tories complain too much. They know the score and have thrown the kitchen sink at the problem but it won't work.

I feel sorry for his poor family - they don't deserve what's coming.

p

[Privateer]

I feel sorry for his poor family - they don't deserve what's coming.

Meathooks, is it?

Nutjob.

[Nickolarge]

No, but there are plenty of forms of argument that replace logic and reason with an attack on the writing style, grammar or punctuation of the other party.

And you edited that post to remove the main text leaving only the dig at his style.. What form of argument is that?

Do you seriously think that having a high IQ test score makes you any less likely to be a fool or an idiot? If you do, I suggest you join mensa (I assume, from the pompous and condescending tone of your posts that you must have a high enough score for that, or are you just happy to have scored above 100 maybe?). As someone who was personally foolish enough to have been a member of mensa for a short while, I can tell you categorically I have never met more fools and idiots in a single sitting than I did at the few of their meetings that I attended.

There are plenty here who think that "a good education" makes it less likely. You have the cheek to call me pompous and condescending but make no comment about those who bandy about insults in place of the "logic and reason" that I presume you always adhere to. I was a member of Mensa for just the one year after gaining entry. I also thought that the active members were an odd bunch but I would prefer to call them eccentric and maybe fools, not idiots.

[Thunderbird 900]

Pat the Prat spreads false information and rumour just like his mentally ill Dear Leader. I have read the Daily Telegraph today and there is nothing in there to suggest ...

"It's gradually seeping out. It'll all make sense when you see the full story."

The full story will come out when Brown and Smith admit they knew in advance of the police raid.

Pat, you have been a willing worker for the your beloved Nu Labour experiment. Sadly, for you and your band of Useful Idiots, NuLabour is now falling apart at the seams. I think it is now time for you to exit stage left and piss off into obscurity where you most definitely belong.

[Injin]

The Torygraph is laying the ground for the time it has to wipe it's hands of Cameron and Green. Wise move, Torygraph!

"Mr Cameron and Mr Green may yet have questions of their own to answer too. If the disclosure of the documents Mr Green is alleged to have obtained was so clearly in the public interest, why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

I wonder why? Do you lot wonder why?

It's gradually seeping out. It'll all make sense when you see the full story. Meanwhile, the Tories complain too much. They know the score and have thrown the kitchen sink at the problem but it won't work.

I feel sorry for his poor family - they don't deserve what's coming.

p

No, they don't.

I take it you fully decry the actions taken by all concerned?

[patprimer74]

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

I wonder why? Do you lot wonder why?

Isn't anyone on here going to respond to the Torygraph challenge? All you have to do is answer -

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

You Tory creeps have gone very quiet. What's your problem?

p

[frozen_out]

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

'Cause that's what politicians do

[Injin]

Isn't anyone on here going to respond to the Torygraph challenge? All you have to do is answer -

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

You Tory creeps have gone very quiet. What's your problem?

p

Obviously to gain a political advantage.

Will you join me in decrying the actions of ALL concerned, of both parties AND the police?

You've got a snitch, a sociopath Jock, heavy handed ******wits in uniform, craven politicians....all of them are at fault, no?

[patprimer74]

But the enforcers of law wouldn't take this approach in most circumstances.

So, why haven't you asked yourself what were the special circumstances that made them confident enough to take 'this approach' in respect of Green. Open your eyes.

p

[patprimer74]

Pat, you too can be quite sensible sometimes ...

That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me on here, Paulokes. Thank you.

p

[Privateer]

a sociopath Jock

Let's keep the casual racism to minimum, shall we?

[BXLONDONMAN]

Politics in this country is embarrassing, we have three political parties to choose from, none of them has any members with enough experience to run a country.

One party always says how it will rid politics of sleaze, only to increase it to new levels. They say they will support the working class, then instead taxes them out of existence to pay for those that are apparently "incompacitated", and you can guarantee the economy will be ruined after their 2nd term.

The next Party tries to repair the economic ruin left by the last party only to get voted out before they actually achieve anything.

The other party never gets a chance to do anything.

The UK electorate has two choices:

1. Vote Tory or Lib-Dem.

or

2. Don't vote at all.

If I could afford I'd move to another country.

just out of interst which country do you think has a better system, it's the same the world over the electorate will always get lied too no matter who's in power.

those that seek power do so for ther own reason's maybe a few do so for the better good, but the rest for ther own personal gain, greed drives them power is ther dream.

no matter who get's into power they will never please all the people all the time.so they please themselves instead...so what's new this will be the case no matter who get's into power.

the electorate want and need so much no party can give it all..in the 1980's we had a good goverment untill she went crazy that's what total power does..what we have will do..

at least we can get rid of them if we want..at the next election so it's not all bad.

Edited November 29, 2008 by BXLONDONMAN

[Nickolarge]

In other words, strict intelligence and intellect are different things (with a bit of snobbery thrown in). It is not the done thing to boast about your IQ. After all, if you need to mention it to win an argument, you have already lost.

I agree, which is why I have never mentioned it before. I have been called an idiot before on this forum and I will be again. This time the guy was just too persistent with his 'idiot' comments.

When you consider that this only happens when the subject is politics it is all the more silly. Politics is all about opinions and beliefs and yet there are so many people who think that there is one doctrine that is 'correct' and anything else is for idiots and fools. When these same people get so many of their 'facts' wrong is seems unlikely that their beliefs are anywhere near as correct as they think they are. This thread, for example, is chock full of jumped to conclusions with very little to back them up.

At the moment there are not many who openly support Labour and despite what some might think, I don't either. However I can remember when the same was true of the Tories. Have either parties really changed much? I don't think so. None of them deserve my vote on current form.

[TheBlueCat]

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

For exactly the same reason the government leaks things to journalists rather than announce them in parliament I imagine. Not so long ago, a leak of something in the budget was a major scandal, now labour passes the whole lot to the media before-hand to test the waters. If you were arguing that the whole of the cabinet should now be arrested on exactly the same grounds, then you would still be wrong, but at least you'd be consistent.

[Flatdog]

(Snip)

Will you join me in decrying the actions of ALL concerned, of both parties AND the police?

Yes, all else is conjecture.

[Guest KingCharles1st]

Isn't anyone on here going to respond to the Torygraph challenge? All you have to do is answer -

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

You Tory creeps have gone very quiet. What's your problem?

p

Who gives a shit.

Personally, I reckon the real reason he was busted was the fear that he MIGHT have something really HOT, and that "may" still be the case...

[Nickolarge]

Nicko, ocassionally you talk sense, rest of the time I can't help thinking what you say is coloured by some ideological attachment to what the Labour party is supposed to be. Why can't people leave political persuasions at the door? It's amazing how much tosh is spoken every time one of these debates turns in to Labour vs Conservative.

MPs shouldn't be above the law. But the enforcers of law wouldn't take this approach in most circumstances. Insider trading, industrial espionage, trade secrets - all of these things are glossed over or dealt with in the courts - you don't see dawn raids and arrests. And you didn't see dawn raids every time whitehall documents were leaked over the last 60 years (a weekly event FFS). Right or wrong, it's a common tool in the armoury of the opposition - and I'd say a valid one.

To assume the government knew nothing about this is ridiculous. Police wouldn't act without at least a phone call, if they weren't under direction.

This is the state out of control, protecting it's own interest and flexing their muscle. I couldn't give a toss if they're Red or Blue, it's wrong.

I won't deny that I was happy back in 97 or that I couldn't be more dissapointed with what we actually ended up with.

My views are coloured by the fact that I have spent most of my life listening to bogus arguments from those on the right. If you look back through my posts you should see that they concentrate on shooting down those arguments and very little of the content is in any way supportive of Labour when they have held power.

As for this current matter, I am prepared to wait for more info before I form any opinion.

[mdman]

For exactly the same reason the government leaks things to journalists rather than announce them in parliament I imagine. Not so long ago, a leak of something in the budget was a major scandal, now labour passes the whole lot to the media before-hand to test the waters. If you were arguing that the whole of the cabinet should now be arrested on exactly the same grounds, then you would still be wrong, but at least you'd be consistent.

Yep - if the police were to apply this law to all the way they have applied it to Green and the source of the leak, most of Whitehall and Parliament would be arrested, particularly Government ministers.

Why was the source of the leak arrested? Were there any National Security implications? If not, surely this is an HR issue. I work in the public sector. If I leak information against the state, is that a criminal offence?

[tricksters]

Isn't anyone on here going to respond to the Torygraph challenge? All you have to do is answer -

" ...why did he not disclose them by publishing them in Parliament, instead of quietly passing them to friendly journalists?"

You Tory creeps have gone very quiet. What's your problem?

==========================================================================

Tory creeps / Nu-Labour creeps.........childish, infantile yah-boo politics. Why does anyone buy into this "my stupid idealogical mindset is better than your stupid idealogical mindset " nonsense? How about some independent thought and some original thinking instead of spouting partisan rhetoric to attack anything that doesn't fit your silly prejudices. Not just you, Patprimer, but all those who are enthusiastic, brainwashed party faithfull of whatever hue. Political leaders have no interest whatsoever in genuinely advancing the cause of or protecting the real interests of the people they purport to represent. Why would you defend them?