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James Clow


RockyBalboa
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I dont think this was an option presented to us at the time. The equity in the property has been severly dented by the downturn to be honest, so there wouldnt be value there in the property that there once was.

If your house is mortgaged then the first charge holder (Mortgage Company) would have to consent to the second charge. Did they consent to a second charge? Are you sure it's even a charge.

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yes I think that is the most annoying part, the fact that others in same situation were advised differently to me, and I raised the same point that they won the case on to my solicitor at the time and he just said it wasnt an option! its very frustrating to say the least!

appreciate your help. just one of those things.

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yes I think that is the most annoying part, the fact that others in same situation were advised differently to me, and I raised the same point that they won the case on to my solicitor at the time and he just said it wasnt an option! its very frustrating to say the least!

appreciate your help. just one of those things.

Could you take it up with the law society - that you were badly advised?

What would you have to lose - might even get legal aid.

Bit of a long shot admittedly, but CAB and even the housing rights service may take up, or advise on, the legal side for you.

Hope something turns up for you.

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Could you take it up with the law society - that you were badly advised?

What would you have to lose - might even get legal aid.

Bit of a long shot admittedly, but CAB and even the housing rights service may take up, or advise on, the legal side for you.

Hope something turns up for you.

Yes I was thinking of looking into that, just worried that legal bills could esculate into something which will ultimately end up with me no better off. Its a tricky one! I suppose Legal aid might not be given in certain circumstances, I dont know too much about these areas.

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Yes I was thinking of looking into that, just worried that legal bills could esculate into something which will ultimately end up with me no better off. Its a tricky one! I suppose Legal aid might not be given in certain circumstances, I dont know too much about these areas.

Its not over until the Fat Lady sings!

I dont think CAB is the palce for you,they might be fine for a guy who has defaulted on a car loan and run up a few credit cards bills.Your case requires specialist advise.

Most solicitors don't charge for the initial consultation and once you have laid out the facts you can ask for their recommendation with a capped fee quote.

have all your paperwork and series of events listed so as you a hitting the ground running during your consultation.

Forget about the pity which we all have for your situation,YOU have to lay your cards out and decide the strategy that is right for you what ever it is.

Bankruptcy may be the right option but it all needs explored.

The developer has got a second charge.What value is it to them ?Why haven't they or the bank made a move on it?

To move today would require money to issue proceedings which I suspect neither the developer or the bank will want to part with and they know that values are well down.

The charge might not be worth a whole lot to them.Let say you defualt on the first mortgage and they repossess the property.The property is sold at less than its normal value as all repossession do.The mortgage company will impose penalties default interest rates and heavy fees.

I know of a case were the mortgage company on a repo issued an invoice to the borrower for 90k.The house was bought for 335k (07) with a 285k mortgage and sold for 135k (12).The repo invoice in this case was useless but on an occasion were there was 35k of a mortgage on a 335k house and the borrower lost his way through illness then the repo invoice would be of a great deal of use.

So if your back to the developer and offer say 10k or nothing in the senario above what will he do?OK you dont have the 10k but that another days work.

Of course if you just keep on paying mortgage number one eventually you will have it paid off and guess what the second charge has a real value.In other words every monthly mortgage payment you are making will go to the developer or his banker.

Your original solicitor would need a poke. Why were they not aware of the other legal cases being taken ?.I bet they charged you nicely for capitulating to the developer.

Do you have a partner?Did they get independant legal advise on the second charge?Are they even involved in JC?

Why not try Tughans as they know the case and seem to be well able.

If have to take the game to them you will not know how well it will work out until you do.

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Its not over until the Fat Lady sings!

I dont think CAB is the palce for you,they might be fine for a guy who has defaulted on a car loan and run up a few credit cards bills.Your case requires specialist advise.

Most solicitors don't charge for the initial consultation and once you have laid out the facts you can ask for their recommendation with a capped fee quote.

have all your paperwork and series of events listed so as you a hitting the ground running during your consultation.

Forget about the pity which we all have for your situation,YOU have to lay your cards out and decide the strategy that is right for you what ever it is.

Bankruptcy may be the right option but it all needs explored.

The developer has got a second charge.What value is it to them ?Why haven't they or the bank made a move on it?

To move today would require money to issue proceedings which I suspect neither the developer or the bank will want to part with and they know that values are well down.

The charge might not be worth a whole lot to them.Let say you defualt on the first mortgage and they repossess the property.The property is sold at less than its normal value as all repossession do.The mortgage company will impose penalties default interest rates and heavy fees.

I know of a case were the mortgage company on a repo issued an invoice to the borrower for 90k.The house was bought for 335k (07) with a 285k mortgage and sold for 135k (12).The repo invoice in this case was useless but on an occasion were there was 35k of a mortgage on a 335k house and the borrower lost his way through illness then the repo invoice would be of a great deal of use.

So if your back to the developer and offer say 10k or nothing in the senario above what will he do?OK you dont have the 10k but that another days work.

Of course if you just keep on paying mortgage number one eventually you will have it paid off and guess what the second charge has a real value.In other words every monthly mortgage payment you are making will go to the developer or his banker.

Your original solicitor would need a poke. Why were they not aware of the other legal cases being taken ?.I bet they charged you nicely for capitulating to the developer.

Do you have a partner?Did they get independant legal advise on the second charge?Are they even involved in JC?

Why not try Tughans as they know the case and seem to be well able.

If have to take the game to them you will not know how well it will work out until you do.

Some fantastic points, thank you for your reply!

I think next step as you say is solicitor advise! as you say a consultation with a solicitor doesnt cost a thing, and they can best advise on way forward!

We did make an offer to developer already, but that was since rejected. Then they rang to ask if we had another offer. Seemed strange since it was only threatening letters previously.

To be honest the charge was once worth the paper its written on, now there is maybe 8/10 k equity in the property! which really means the developer would be out money persuing this amount in the long run! but its the fact of losing a property which worries me the most! its not something that we want to happen!

Really appreciate your thoughts though.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

2 bed flat for sale at James Clow, asking price £104,950. From the kitchen photo I'm guessing it's a repo.

http://www.propertypal.com/unit-117-james-clow-the-granary-buildin-15-princes-dock-street-belfast/217575

"Notice of Offer

117 The Granary Building, 15 Princes Dock Street, Belfast, BT1 3DS

BTWCairns are now in receipt of an offer for the sum of £102,500 on the above property. Anyone wishing to make an offer on this property should contact BTWCairns before exchange of contracts."

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"Notice of Offer

117 The Granary Building, 15 Princes Dock Street, Belfast, BT1 3DS

BTWCairns are now in receipt of an offer for the sum of £102,500 on the above property. Anyone wishing to make an offer on this property should contact BTWCairns before exchange of contracts."

Still a few muppets buying then. £100K for a 2 bed flat in Belfast is nuts.

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Still a few muppets buying then. £100K for a 2 bed flat in Belfast is nuts.

Staggering. Why anyone would pay £100k for a 2 bed, in an empty block, in Sailor Town is beyond me.

The area is dead after 5, with the only half decent bars closing (in 2007).

What are the odds this is a coownership purchase? I'd imagine pretty high.

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  • 2 weeks later...

most contracts are vauge about the completion date and dont give an actual date. But this decision will open up alot of challanges. What would have saved mr Fitzpartick is the fact he replied immediatly to the notice of delay saying it was unacceptable and he took action to get his deposit back. The vast majority of purchasers dont reply and just hope that somehow they dont have to complete. Therefore bringing up the unacceptability of delay is no defence if they did not demenstrate it through the means available when they were first informed. This may be a test case for a number who all did exactly this. I will try and find out.

Hats off to this guy and his team. I admire clever work even if it is against the industry.

Here's the Appeal Court ruling which overturned the Fitzpatrick victory

http://www.courtsni.gov.uk/en-GB/Judicial%20Decisions/PublishedByYear/Documents/2012/%5b2012%5d%20NICA%2058/j_j_GIR8669Final.htm

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Does that mean they will now have to complete on the purchase of the apartments? Or can they appeal this decision?

It's now much more likely they'll have to complete. If they want to appeal on this point they'd have to petition the Supreme Court. Though the qualification is at the end of the judgement which states there are still some try-able issues which will have to be heard before the High Court.

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  • 2 years later...
  • 4 months later...

Interesting to see that after all these years, this might be coming to a (somewhat forced) conclusion:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-34128093

The company that developed the James Clow apartments close to Belfast docks has been put into administration.

The apartments were completed in 2009 and the administrators report shows that 54 out of 135 have been sold, with the other 81 retained by the company.

Sarcon (No. 177) owes the bank almost £7.5m.

Earlier this year, a group of up to 40 people who had agreed to buy apartments in the development won a case which meant they did not have to go through with the purchase.

a Belfast law firm is owed an estimated £278,000 by Sarcon (No. 177).

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  • 5 months later...
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I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread but apparently there is an absolute nightmare of a housing estate right beside those apartments. Antisocial behaviour, tons of noise ect....if my friend is correct it would mean those apartments aren't worth buying at any price.

If you're considering buying one, at least do your research first.

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