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I thought you could get WTC up to about £55K....over twice the average wage.

No thats CTC - but even then it's a tiny amount - couple of hundred quid tops

pinched from elsehwre

I think the limit is somewhere round £15K taxable income for those with no

children. Unless classed as disabled by tax credits and working in own right

for at least 16 hours a week.

The £15K is only what I vaguely remember, but I haven't played with a tax

credit calculator since the government gateway was shut.

I know at just over £10K taxable income its worth over £1500.

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No thats CTC - but even then it's a tiny amount - couple of hundred quid tops

pinched from elsehwre

I think the limit is somewhere round £15K taxable income for those with no

children. Unless classed as disabled by tax credits and working in own right

for at least 16 hours a week.

The £15K is only what I vaguely remember, but I haven't played with a tax

credit calculator since the government gateway was shut.

I know at just over £10K taxable income its worth over £1500.

thank you.

Soooo many benefits, too little brainpower.

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Talking to a 'friend' who has jsut been 'boxed' form a major london finacnial institution he said he knew why this happened.

Banks (with Northern Rock the worst) were in the business in selling on debt, not in lending money.

One of his jobs every week was to canvas a wide range of institutions to try and get hold of tranches of mortgages to assetise and sell on.

Demand was so hight hthese banks were giving mortgages to anyone and then dumping them off there books.

These were then resold. Chinese banks ate them up apparently.

Then whne it went sour and non-one would touch this stuff with a 30 foot insulated barge pole him and his fellows came to work to find 2 boxes and a note gving them notice and 2 hours to vacate the building :-)

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Of course this is naiive. The average person is naiive.

But since when has naiivity been a crime? The people in these stories have merely believed what they have been told.

Firstly, let me state my position. I am squarely in the camp that it is 100% the governments FAULT this has happened. It is their job (no, duty) to guide this country through the economic waters, and if they get it wrong, this is the result.

However, it is a cascade of incompetence. People saw there was a quick buck to be made, and everybody, through greed, tried to jump on the bandwagon.

So, whilst in the macro sense, the government could have stopped this all happening in the first place. They didn't. Even then, the regulators could have stopped all this, by flagging up the problems (although those that might have tried were likely suppressed by the government). Even then, the press could have stopped it.

I'm not sure the banks, other than political persuasion, could have individually done anything. If an individual bank didn't lend to the same amopunt as every other bank did, then they would strangle themselves.

But to say that peoples naivity lets them off the hook is abhorrent, in my mind. People weren't naive. They were blinded by greed. Pure greed, and fear. And maybe some jealousy thrown in.

However, back to your statement. When is naivity a crime? I could take my car, stick "taxi" on the side, and start charging people. Pretty soon I'd be arrested, and charged with various crimes. Now, that is purely due to naivity on my part.

Or buy somewhere, and rent it out. I don't need to know anything about the law, tenancy agreements, or the like. However, when I get hauled up in front of the courts by the tenant, or the local council, or have my mortgage suspended because I'm putting the lender at risk, then it is purely and simply my naivity that has landed me up on the wrong side of the law.

Naivity is just another word for incompetence. If you can get away with it, it's great, and you can make easy money. However when the ball stops rolling, you'd better hope you're lucky enough that you can keep things going.

those people with experience, who have educated themselves and who have made the right choices, and assessed the possible risks, will be ok.

The rest of them were in it for the money, through greed. They can all rot in the gutter, as far as I'm concerned.

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They are all to blame. Banks , lenders and borrowers. Each has his own degree of responsibilty in this disaster.

They deserve everything coming to them and get no sympathy from me. :angry:

The only sad part in this folly is that taxpayers who stayed out of the Ponzi scheme will be coerced/forced/robbed to pay for a large chunk of the bailout.

Stories such as we see in the OP make me angry/happy at the same time. Happy to see that the bubble is now bursting, sad that innocent parties will have to pay (not talking about the borrowers here, btw). Unemployment is the one that is indescriminate................

As someone who might end up unemployed in the next few years, I think it will be a necessary hardship. It won't be the first time I've been in this situation. But as always, like others, I've saved in the good years and hopefully this will see me through the bad. Fingers crossed.

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What if strict mortgage lending guidelines with 10% deposit and proof of income was adhered over the last 10 years...many would not have been able to buy and be living in their unaffordable homes...the council housing list would have been alot longer and homes alot cheaper.

No. There is no reason to imagine it would increase the number of people waiting for council housing.

There would have been the same number of houses and the same number of people needing to live in them.

All that would be different would be (possibly) the pattern of ownership and (certainly) the price.

Edited by Selling up
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They are all to blame. Banks , lenders and borrowers. Each has his own degree of responsibilty in this disaster.

They deserve everything coming to them and get no sympathy from me. :angry:

The only sad part in this folly is that taxpayers who stayed out of the Ponzi scheme will be coerced/forced/robbed to pay for a large chunk of the bailout.

Stories such as we see in the OP make me angry/happy at the same time. Happy to see that the bubble is now bursting, sad that innocent parties will have to pay (not talking about the borrowers here, btw). Unemployment is the one that is indescriminate................

As someone who might end up unemployed in the next few years, I think it will be a necessary hardship. It won't be the first time I've been in this situation. But as always, like others, I've saved in the good years and hopefully this will see me through the bad. Fingers crossed.

Good points, well made, reflect my own views, thank you and bump....

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Get over yourselves, you sad, whinging tossers. "I counldn't breed because I didn't have my own house.... Putting my life on hold..." Snivelling sh!ts, you never had it so good, millions starving around the world and you begrudge someone buying a house because in your eyes "they didn't deserve it". Britain is screwed, not because of a financial crisis, but because it is a divided society. Someone on the dole who got a 200k mortgage did not stop you from buying a house. Your own lack of gumption stopped you, or else you made a sensible decision to wait. THE HATRED and gloating from some of these posts is despicable. You are no better, behaving like cry babies - once you buy, you will be the first looking forward to HPI. The country's collective mania for property, along with a lack of decent renters' rights is a large part of the problem. Take your share of the blame. You got the govt. and the laws you deserve. You will never be happy no matter how much you have because there will always be something to cry about - immigrants, chavs, Europe, etc. Tossers.

Ha ha ha, touched a nerve there.

And entirely missing the point.

Someone on the dole who got a 200k mortgage DID stop other people buying a house. It pushed up house prices to levels that no-one could afford any more.

"...you begrudge someone buying a house because in your eyes "they didn't deserve it"."

Entirely missing the point again, well done. It's not a matter of "not deserving it", it's a matter of not being able to afford it. And their stupidity hurts the rest of us.

Tosser.

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Dunno why you have a grudge against EDM?

anyway, the method by which the risk free lending was created is now gone...where do you envisage the new sub prime lending to be generated from?

The answer to the fist question is that for some reason he cannot cope with being wrong. He refuses to distinguish between "helping bankers" and saving the financial system, so substitutes vitriol and personal attacks for reasoned argument. In short, he behaves like a child when people disagree with what he wants to believe (after he has put almost no thought into it) is the truth, so I wouldn't expect a coherent reply to your second question.

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I love this phrase "hardworking families"; it brings a tear to my eye thinking of these worthy, selfless souls working day and night to do the right thing and support our economy.

At best what we're talking about here it is a hardworking couple, with children. The word family is presumably added to appeal to the sentimental in us, in the manner of the my-granny-died-when-i-was-ten video montages on X-Factor.

Let's face it, an awful lot of families are not particularly hardworking. Should we be concerned about them too, as they never seem to get a mention. And people without kids are totally out of the equation, it seems. Do they not deserve to keep their houses?

Being slightly facetious here, but just to point out how patronising this term is; as if the government think we're stupid enough to believe using it proves they understand what real life is like outside of London/ politics/ big corporations. But their policies show where their real loyalties lie.

I'm not a hardworking family btw. I'm not even a hardworking single bloke, tbh, but I have always lived within my means and am not in debt. So I slightly resent the implication that people with 42" plasmas and crippling mortgages are more important in all of this.

Er, well basically being hardworking is now seen to be something noteworthy, something unusual rather than something each and every able citizen contributes. :angry:

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Get over yourselves, you sad, whinging tossers. "I counldn't breed because I didn't have my own house.... Putting my life on hold..." Snivelling sh!ts, you never had it so good, millions starving around the world and you begrudge someone buying a house because in your eyes "they didn't deserve it". Britain is screwed, not because of a financial crisis, but because it is a divided society. Someone on the dole who got a 200k mortgage did not stop you from buying a house. Your own lack of gumption stopped you, or else you made a sensible decision to wait. THE HATRED and gloating from some of these posts is despicable. You are no better, behaving like cry babies - once you buy, you will be the first looking forward to HPI. The country's collective mania for property, along with a lack of decent renters' rights is a large part of the problem. Take your share of the blame. You got the govt. and the laws you deserve. You will never be happy no matter how much you have because there will always be something to cry about - immigrants, chavs, Europe, etc. Tossers.

ah, a newly declared bankrupt. dont worry. things will get better for you soon.

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What I always find a bit perplexing about these stories is the fact that people are able to service the mortgage at all. For example the first one apparently managed to make 9.8% interest payments on a £167k loan (which would be about £1,360 per month IO) for three years, despite starting when they were both unemployed and then seemingly getting very low paid jobs. I would have expected them to default from month 1...

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What I always find a bit perplexing about these stories is the fact that people are able to service the mortgage at all. For example the first one apparently managed to make 9.8% interest payments on a £167k loan (which would be about £1,360 per month IO) for three years, despite starting when they were both unemployed and then seemingly getting very low paid jobs. I would have expected them to default from month 1...

Benefits, fraud, black market...etc.

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Re: Replying to Bbc Website - Repossession Stories.

There was a couple in their early 30's today on the BBC having their house repossessed.

Mortgage went up initially from the mid £500's a month to a quoted figure of over £900.

They had stripped the place bare, carpets, everything.

Prior to that, the beeb had come round to take a 'before' video shoot.

Nice big plasma TV and stereo system with big speakers.

And what capped it all was when they were leaving the place with great big large dog.

One of those dogs can eat up £100 a month easy + initial cost + vet bills.

As expensive as a kid anyday.

They'll find it hard to find a rental place with a pet.

No DSS, No smokers, No pets, No children, No passing wind...

Looks like, instead of paying off an extra bit off the mortgage a month as some mortgage lenders let you do, or even sticking it in a high rate savings account for the hard times, these lot didn't.

It got fritted away on mutt hounds to annoy the neighbours and foul the pavements, nights out, they looked as though they liked a nice drink.

Never glimsed the car, but I bet a couple of grand went down the pan on that.

And the holidays, looked like they'd had a few of them.

Some house buyers, want the house AND live a lifestyle they can't afford.

House buyers have to understand they may have to make sacrifices, at least in the first 5 to 10 years. This should be explained to them by responsible parents, friends etc.

They didn't adjust their monthly spending quick enough and lost the lot.

Mind you, they still have their dog. :wacko:

At last, their neighbours might get a restfull nights sleep.

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Ha ha ha, touched a nerve there.

And entirely missing the point.

Someone on the dole who got a 200k mortgage DID stop other people buying a house. It pushed up house prices to levels that no-one could afford any more.

"...you begrudge someone buying a house because in your eyes "they didn't deserve it"."

Entirely missing the point again, well done. It's not a matter of "not deserving it", it's a matter of not being able to afford it. And their stupidity hurts the rest of us.

Tosser.

Good job you can't afford to breed, ha ha!

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It's amazing isn't it?

I remember in 1999 I was earning 22K (I also got OT and callout on top) and the banks would only lend me 66K which was fine with me.

Surely back in 1999 the economy wasn't so bad? Whats the problem with going back to those times?

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Re: Replying to Bbc Website - Repossession Stories.

<lots snipped>

They didn't adjust their monthly spending quick enough and lost the lot.

Mind you, they still have their dog. :wacko:

similar story in my local paper this morning, except the couple with 2 kids decided to put the dog down !!! :lol:

At the very least, their 2 kids might get a Christmas present, but I wouldn't eat the frozen "turkey" if I'm invited to their Christmas lunch.... :lol:

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similar story in my local paper this morning, except the couple with 2 kids decided to put the dog down !!! :lol:

At the very least, their 2 kids might get a Christmas present, but I wouldn't eat the frozen "turkey" if I'm invited to their Christmas lunch.... :lol:

This is what really winds me up about these stories, the innocent children (and pets) involved in the mess.

How must those kids feel about having a beloved pet put down?

I've been told recently about someone who has decided to tell their eight-year-old child the truth about Father Christmas, because Mummy and Daddy's finances are up sh1t creek.

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Guest Mr Parry
This is what really winds me up about these stories, the innocent children (and pets) involved in the mess.

How must those kids feel about having a beloved pet put down?

I've been told recently about someone who has decided to tell their eight-year-old child the truth about Father Christmas, because Mummy and Daddy's finances are up sh1t creek.

Little girl asks daddy "Daddy, what happens when tortoise dies".

"Well, we'll bury tortoise in the garden then we'll have all your friends round for a party. We'll have sweets and jelly and ice cream".

"Can we kill it now Dad?"

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My wife and I bought the £195,000 house in Norwich in October 2006 with a 75% mortgage, paying interest at 7.25%.

At the start, we were able to keep up the payments between my wife's job as a classroom assistant and mine at Norwich airport, where I was earning £14,000 a year.

-----

"look mummy, there's a Liar Loan"

for what ever reason i am lost for words why oh why has no one gone to jail for liar loans.the ea and ther brokers along with the banks have been lending to anybody job or no job hello....did they not see where this was going to lead......write to your mps tell them no high taxes...till all the people who made profits from liar loans , have everthing taken from them by the state....build more jails for them make sure ea are at the head of the q for going to jail.....hpc needs to be in the news every day till we get fair property prices....in the mean time offer 30% less then asking price or less..just look at all the good news for the ea..which he can use to show why property is cheap now and is just about to go up...put these baskets in jail....

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Jesus Christ - how anybody involved in setting up this mortgage ever managed to make the figures add up, I will never know.

Just one of many of thousands of lie to buy mortgages,Thats why we are in such a mess, The thing is no one knows the true extent of the whole mess, as no one knows the full extent of the fraudulent mortgage total.We will only find this as the whole mess unravels mor and more each day.

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