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Hmmmm... I've just had an awful thought. /tinfoil hat on/

Is the point of these stories to actually build up anger against these kind of folks and make the idea of owning any property abhorrent?

/tinfoil hat off/

No the point of the story is to foster the exact feeling in the general public that has just been expressed here. It is to remove any sympathy for the forthcoming mass of repossessions by the likes of Northern Rock etc.

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BBC Article on What Banking could Evolve Back Too

Quaint view of how banking used to be and perhaps a peek at what it will go back to.

I opened my first Nat West Account in 1975 and can remember being taken into a side room for a 'pep talk' 33 years later I still use the same current account. In all those years It has never been overdrawn by more than £100 and only then on the 2 or 3 times it occurred it was with agreement. These days they give me a credit buffer zone of just shy of £4,000 in the hope they can generate some income from me. I never use it as I never allow the account to go overdrawn.

Not sure I fancy some bowler hatted twunt knowing who's wife I was up though.

Especially if it was his.

.

ST

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No the point of the story is to foster the exact feeling in the general public that has just been expressed here. It is to remove any sympathy for the forthcoming mass of repossessions by the likes of Northern Rock etc.

They could have saved themselves the effort, I never had any.

.

ST

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They could have saved themselves the effort, I never had any.

.

ST

Ah' but the majority of repos will not be against silly cases like these. They will be against ordinary families, who didn't buy at the top and who have perhaps equity on the house but who fall behind in payments.

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Ah' but the majority of repos will not be against silly cases like these. They will be against ordinary families, who didn't buy at the top and who have perhaps equity on the house but who fall behind in payments.

Yes your right, they should let them off in that case.

After selling all the sh!t they bought that werent vital for survival. :rolleyes:

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I agree. What's the point of these beeb sob stories exactly? Are we meant to feel sorry for these people who have effectively stolen from us?

There is not necessarily any agenda. (Although there may be, as with any story.) This is basic technique throughout journalism. For example they don't simply say x thousand die in tsunami, they do inteviews with folk who survived, or whose kin are missing. Makes the whole thing seem more real to the average viewer.

Basic lesson a PR agency will tell their client: the average viewer is thought to be incapable of working with facts and figures. So to get a journalist to see your piece as a 'story' its a good idea to illustrate what you say with anecdotes about real people.

Very frustrating journalism if you are somebody who likes to work with facts and figures.

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It was 1985. It'd been a few months after I started my first job after graduation, and having bought a house I wasn't flush but had not got out of the free-spending habit yet. The overdraft was mounting to a staggering £300. My bank manager called me in for a little chat. He castigated my financial disarray, one comment sticking in particular that I'd actually had the gall to draw money out of an ATM TWICE on one day! Having administered the admonition, he agreed an extension of my overdraft (6 months to 1 year, not the amount) provided it was paid off in full in that time. Of course, it was. Moral? The bank's intervention helped stop what was developing as a bad habit in living beyond my means. And I was and remain grateful for it.

Bit of along way from 3 minute Liar Loans over the phone eh? Banks should return to their role of training, and if necessary enforcing, financial prudence. Didn't hurt me at all.

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There is not necessarily any agenda. (Although there may be, as with any story.) This is basic technique throughout journalism. For example they don't simply say x thousand die in tsunami, they do inteviews with folk who survived, or whose kin are missing. Makes the whole thing seem more real to the average viewer.

Basic lesson a PR agency will tell their client: the average viewer is thought to be incapable of working with facts and figures. So to get a journalist to see your piece as a 'story' its a good idea to illustrate what you say with anecdotes about real people.

Very frustrating journalism if you are somebody who likes to work with facts and figures.

Basic lesson in government PR is to condition the people for what is coming. Remove the sympathy

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I`m sure we`ve all met them over the past few years....... They`ve told us that house prices only go up, you can`t go wrong with property, blah,blah,blah. We`ve tried to explain to them why they are wrong, and what will probably happen, but they just dismissed us as "doom mongers".

Well, to all those people who thought the ride to riches would last forever, read that article. In fact, they should be made to read the article, every day, for the next 5 years. Maybe, just maybe, they`ll finally understand what underpinned rising property prices, and how damaging it can be.

There is very little doubt that the mortgages should not have been issued in these three cases. Had they not, that`s 3 cases of irresponsibly lent money not been pumped into the property market. If these three stories are just a small example of what has been repeated all over the country, then no wonder we had year after year of 10%+ HPI. Let`s hope that the banks current reluctance to lend will continue, and undo the damage that has been done in the last few years.

:angry:

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It was 1985. It'd been a few months after I started my first job after graduation, and having bought a house I wasn't flush but had not got out of the free-spending habit yet. The overdraft was mounting to a staggering £300. My bank manager called me in for a little chat. He castigated my financial disarray, one comment sticking in particular that I'd actually had the gall to draw money out of an ATM TWICE on one day! Having administered the admonition, he agreed an extension of my overdraft (6 months to 1 year, not the amount) provided it was paid off in full in that time. Of course, it was. Moral? The bank's intervention helped stop what was developing as a bad habit in living beyond my means. And I was and remain grateful for it.

Bit of along way from 3 minute Liar Loans over the phone eh? Banks should return to their role of training, and if necessary enforcing, financial prudence. Didn't hurt me at all.

It was about that time that I started in business.

I bought a book and in it, was the list of what you really needed to start.

One of those items was to appoint your 3 wise men.

They were: Bank Manager, Accountant and Solicitor.

I appointed all three, had meetings with the BM and even new him on first name terms: right up to the day I got into trouble in 1991.

they took him away from me and put my account with Head office number crunchers.

This had two effects.. 1. My adviser was gone, and I had to go it alone, and 2. I started to play hardball with them in return for the callous "frack you, pay me" attitude of the HO team.

TODAY, I get a letter from the bank telling my new business manager is changed about every 6 months. Never met HER, (9 times out of 10 its a her) and shes about 21 years old. the letter also includes new loan "products" which I dont need.

As a small business man these days, you only need 1 wise man... the accountant... and youve even gotta watch them.

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of course, there's no sub-prime in the UK. That friend of mine who got a liar loan from B&M a couple of years back by making up some headed notepaper in Microsoft Word which declared her to be a Business Research Consultant with a salary of 50k a year doesn't exist at all. The broker and B&M checked it all, they didn't pass through the loan with no checks in a matter of hours. She isn't really in a call centre earning 18k. (and yes, I told her not to do it, and yes, she will now be subsidising her tenants for a long long time).

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I`m sure we`ve all met them over the past few years....... They`ve told us that house prices only go up, you can`t go wrong with property, blah,blah,blah. We`ve tried to explain to them why they are wrong, and what will probably happen, but they just dismissed us as "doom mongers".

Well, to all those people who thought the ride to riches would last forever, read that article. In fact, they should be made to read the article, every day, for the next 5 years. Maybe, just maybe, they`ll finally understand what underpinned rising property prices, and how damaging it can be.

There is very little doubt that the mortgages should not have been issued in these three cases. Had they not, that`s 3 cases of irresponsibly lent money not been pumped into the property market. If these three stories are just a small example of what has been repeated all over the country, then no wonder we had year after year of 10%+ HPI. Let`s hope that the banks current reluctance to lend will continue, and undo the damage that has been done in the last few years.

:angry:

yeah but, thats £30K in bonuses and commissions up the swanny man!

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Ah' but the majority of repos will not be against silly cases like these. They will be against ordinary families, who didn't buy at the top and who have perhaps equity on the house but who fall behind in payments.

True. However, the question has to be asked, why are they falling behind in payments ? Loss of job perhaps ? Where have most jobs been lost ? I`d say it has been in the building trade and property related industries. Add a bit of inflation into the mix, and rising mortgages rates, it`s a recipe for disaster. Too much money being pumped into the property market, or any other sector of the economy is always going to cause problems. Those of us who predicted trouble, and kept out of the property/credit bubble are starting to suffer.Meanwhile the property bulls have left the building (hopefully the building that they lived in, having had it repossessed).

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OMFG, I'm absolutely stunned, my girlfriend and I earn between us £60k (mid 20's and mid 30's). I never really understood just how bad the leding had been. On our combined salary we would only just be willing to buy a 3-4 bed in a good area for £200k but here are these absolute uneducated, below 100 IQ, financially challenged morons who the banks will led over £150k when they are on £14k-WTF!!!!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: No wonder we can't get a place we could afford that suits our needs.

This is where you're going wrong. As you earn 4 times as much as the Muppets you need to be looking at houses that cost 4X. Therefore you need to be looking at houses "worth" £600K. It's people like you staying out of the market that are to blame for this mess we're in - too much time getting an education has neutered your cojones - no sense of social responsibility - you gotta BUY BUY BUY.

- that's the kind of advice I was getting from my extended family (aka circle of mistrust) over the last few years - "look at cousin Bob - has a McJob on 15K and a proud owner of a few lie-to-buy-to-let mortgages of 200K+ each - failed his GCSE's & he's a blooming millionaire - where's all your education got you? Still renting - what kind of parent are you? - don't you know need to speculate to accumulate - don't be so stubborn / risk-averse - can't lose on bricks & mortar, bish bosh - loadsamonneeeeey!"

Seriously though- wonder how many sheeple have got themselves into huge debt as a result of this kind of pressure - I know from personal experience how much it can do your head in and strain relationships. I'm angry but not just at the lie-to-buy sheeple, the majority of which have just sleep-walked themselves & us into financial disaster - it's all the VI to$$ers who flew the flag of boom everywhere that are the real villains - people like Krusty Alslop should be publicly humiliated and forced to contribute a significant percentage of their future income to an appropriate charity (don't know who's more deserving - the homeless, or the kids of the repossessed) and banned from ever appearing on TV / writing in the media again.

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Guest mattsta1964
This is where you're going wrong. As you earn 4 times as much as the Muppets you need to be looking at houses that cost 4X. Therefore you need to be looking at houses "worth" £600K. It's people like you staying out of the market that are to blame for this mess we're in - too much time getting an education has neutered your cojones - no sense of social responsibility - you gotta BUY BUY BUY.

- that's the kind of advice I was getting from my extended family (aka circle of mistrust) over the last few years - "look at cousin Bob - has a McJob on 15K and a proud owner of a few lie-to-buy-to-let mortgages of 200K+ each - failed his GCSE's & he's a blooming millionaire - where's all your education got you? Still renting - what kind of parent are you? - don't you know need to speculate to accumulate - don't be so stubborn / risk-averse - can't lose on bricks & mortar, bish bosh - loadsamonneeeeey!"

Seriously though- wonder how many sheeple have got themselves into huge debt as a result of this kind of pressure - I know from personal experience how much it can do your head in and strain relationships. I'm angry but not just at the lie-to-buy sheeple, the majority of which have just sleep-walked themselves & us into financial disaster - it's all the VI to$$ers who flew the flag of boom everywhere that are the real villains - people like Krusty Alslop should be publicly humiliated and forced to contribute a significant percentage of their future income to an appropriate charity (don't know who's more deserving - the homeless, or the kids of the repossessed) and banned from ever appearing on TV / writing in the media again.

Ignorance is a terribly dangerous thing ;)

It's really not fair to lay the blame on the dumb bovine suckers who fell for it. The system played them like a harp

The Krusty Allsop Involuntary Resettlement Fund, a registered charity to resettle the bovine masses into subsidised accomodation, funded by Allsop's personal fortune.

Yeah......There should be a few of those!

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It gets worse as said Michelle a secretary at my old work place by 22 had a 210K house, her and her BF made between them 21K....

They kept mewing and selling mewing and selling and would rub new cars new TVs new everything constantly in my face...

She is > < from bankruptcy she has at least 30K on credit cards and can't sell the house to cover the mortgage or the debt, bankruptcy looms for her ,

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It gets worse as said Michelle a secretary at my old work place by 22 had a 210K house, her and her BF made between them 21K....

They kept mewing and selling mewing and selling and would rub new cars new TVs new everything constantly in my face...

She is > < from bankruptcy she has at least 30K on credit cards and can't sell the house to cover the mortgage or the debt, bankruptcy looms for her ,

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Ignorance is a terribly dangerous thing ;)

It's really not fair to lay the blame on the dumb bovine suckers who fell for it. The system played them like a harp

I do tend to agree here. You can't really expect people to continually put their lives on hold on the premiss that prices might come down. They might not come down in which case you will be even further away from owning your own home. It's was never absolutely certain that the big crash we are currently experiencing would ever happen, it could have been that things flattened off and went stagnant for another 10 years so those who were hard pressed to afford a house would still be hard pressed for years into the future.

There comes a time when you have to take the plunge and do something.

I know people will chip in with the "Well, why do you want to own you own home anyway, it just as easy renting". The thing is that it's not just as easy renting as you have little security of tenure and rents aren't especially cheap anyway. If there was better security of tenure, as in most of the rest of Europe, then perhaps lots more people would rent.

However, I have little sympathy for those who have bled their properties dry to pay for mega-TV's flash new cars and the like and who now can't afford the consequenses.

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It gets worse as said Michelle a secretary at my old work place by 22 had a 210K house, her and her BF made between them 21K....

They kept mewing and selling mewing and selling and would rub new cars new TVs new everything constantly in my face...

She is > < from bankruptcy she has at least 30K on credit cards and can't sell the house to cover the mortgage or the debt, bankruptcy looms for her ,

Then she's won really hasn't she? If she had been prudent on £21k, lived with mum and dad or rented somewhere (pokey) she would not have had those things.

Now she owes nobody anything once she's bankrupt and how much worse can her life be than living prudently on 21k????

The lender have paid for her to have a great time while she was young enough to enjoy it.

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Guest An Bearin Bui
Yes, I'm strong willed and rather a non-conformist but even I found it hard to argue my decision not to buy in over the last two to three years. The people who told me prices won't fall in the long run, and the "Government won't let it happen", now claim that they never said these things.

A bit like Gordon Turd Brown "I never said no more boom and bust, I said no more Tory Boom and Bust", oh right, SILLY US!!!

This kind of revisionism is rife now - it's a very interesting study in human psychology. At the peak of the boom, all I heard was 'renting is dead money' and 'you have to buy some time' and 'people will pay whatever they like for the place they want, you can't judge that by your standards'. Now I'm hearing 'we all knew it was crazy' and 'it had to end'. I even had colleagues agree with me at lunch today when I said that house prices would be down 50-70% already by now if it weren't for the government intervention to shore up the credit supply. :blink::unsure:

So they're all wise now after the event but the brainwashing was intense during the peak of the bubble. It's like the bubble never happened and I just imagined it. Except house prices are still ridiculously high...

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So they're all wise now after the event but the brainwashing was intense during the peak of the bubble. It's like the bubble never happened and I just imagined it. Except house prices are still ridiculously high...

Nail on the head. Rest assured everything will be done to keep it that way. Especially as the government now own most of the banks.

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Then she's won really hasn't she?

If she had been prudent on £21k, lived with mum and dad or rented somewhere (pokey) she would not have had those things.

<snip>

Now she owes nobody anything once she's bankrupt

I think she'll find she is chased to the grave for her debts, and won't be able to borrow from anyone again for any reasonable sum. Bankruptcy is NOT an IVA you know!

New car? No chance. Nice holiday? Nice try. Wedding? Arf!

Her life (as she no doubt wanted it) is fkd. End Of.

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