£100,000 Debt Per Household

[VacantPossession]

£100,000, according to Newsnight, is the level of debt PER UK HOUSEHOLD, which is likely to be established when combining already established personal debt with government debt as a result of buying its way out of recession. This is clearly an untenable sum, since it is an average, and I would guess half of all households are in fact not already seriously in debt on their own behalf. That could imply that many other households will be identified as carrying a burden of maybe £150,000.

The implications of this are severe. It means that in order to claw back that debt, every single man, woman, and maybe a number of children or teenagers, are going to be forced to absolutely conform and be part of a system from which escape is impossible. It means that tax, both stealth and direct and indirect, is going to rise enormously and that every person who exists in the UK is going to have to do the hard graft to help pay it all back.

It must be occuring to many people who have not spent the last ten years racking up personal debt and living beyond their means, or acquiring mortgages for over-priced housing, that they are now going to be inextricably part of a system which requires them to pay for the profligacy of others. It confirms the theme that I have posted about many many times on this forum for the past four years: There is no such thing as REAL wealth in property, it is merely temporary wealth and a redistribution of it from those at the bottom of the pyramid to those at the top. The huge and ridiculous profits taken by those who played roullete and won WILL NOW HAVE TO BE PAID FOR BY THOSE WHO HAD NO PART IN THE MADNESS.

It means that Local Councils, already in breach of several UK and European laws in their quest to rake in Council Tax, will further extend their already Nazi-like tactics in order to intimidate, bully and threaten those who simply cannot afford to pay the grossly inflated local taxation which has gone out of control. It means that already failed but bailed building societies are going to employ heavies whose tactics will eclipse those of already outrageous baillifs and mafia-types recruited to do their dirty work.

It implies that there will be absolutely no option to bypass the national system which requires each and every person to be utterly obedient and work, slave like, for the state because the state and its friends behaved appallingly and allowed this mess to occur. I have owned and run a moderately successful small business for eight years. I've kept my nose clean and kept my spending sensible. I have no debts and a little cash. I am simply not prepared to become a slave to the new order of paying back someone else's debt that I had nothing to do with. To that end my policy, each and every time I walk into my bank, and each and every time I deal with any government department, local council, or business that is part of the great club of profligacy, I am going to give them hell. I will lecture them, loudly, I will point out their misuse of their position, I will draw their attention to their misdeeds and I will make myself as awkward as it is possible to be within the law. I urge others to do the same.

VP

[tinker]

I caught that, it's absolutely outrageous. £100,000. It is beyond parody now.

It needs pursuing, elaborating upon and hammered home.

These people are out of control. It cannot go on. How can that sort of burden be imposed upon children who know nothing about this and have no choice.

The next generation is so screwed: let us not forget, one day they will be looking after us in our dotage. Thay are going to be so p!ssed off when they see what we have done to them.

Edit: edit

Edited October 20, 2008 by tinker

[I'veAlreadyLeft]

Or you could just emigrate to a country not run by morons...

[Guest mattsta1964]

£100,000, according to Newsnight, is the level of debt PER UK HOUSEHOLD, which is likely to be established when combining already established personal debt with government debt as a result of buying its way out of recession. This is clearly an untenable sum, since it is an average, and I would guess half of all households are in fact not already seriously in debt on their own behalf. That could imply that many other households will be identified as carrying a burden of maybe £150,000.

The implications of this are severe. It means that in order to claw back that debt, every single man, woman, and maybe a number of children or teenagers, are going to be forced to absolutely conform and be part of a system from which escape is impossible. It means that tax, both stealth and direct and indirect, is going to rise enormously and that every person who exists in the UK is going to have to do the hard graft to help pay it all back.

It must be occuring to many people who have not spent the last ten years racking up personal debt and living beyond their means, or acquiring mortgages for over-priced housing, that they are now going to be inextricably part of a system which requires them to pay for the profligacy of others. It confirms the theme that I have posted about many many times on this forum for the past four years: There is no such thing as REAL wealth in property, it is merely temporary wealth and a redistribution of it from those at the bottom of the pyramid to those at the top. The huge and ridiculous profits taken by those who played roullete and won WILL NOW HAVE TO BE PAID FOR BY THOSE WHO HAD NO PART IN THE MADNESS.

It means that Local Councils, already in breach of several UK and European laws in their quest to rake in Council Tax, will further extend their already Nazi-like tactics in order to intimidate, bully and threaten those who simply cannot afford to pay the grossly inflated local taxation which has gone out of control. It means that already failed but bailed building societies are going to employ heavies whose tactics will eclipse those of already outrageous baillifs and mafia-types recruited to do their dirty work.

It implies that there will be absolutely no option to bypass the national system which requires each and every person to be utterly obedient and work, slave like, for the state because the state and its friends behaved appallingly and allowed this mess to occur. I have owned and run a moderately successful small business for eight years. I've kept my nose clean and kept my spending sensible. I have no debts and a little cash. I am simply not prepared to become a slave to the new order of paying back someone else's debt that I had nothing to do with. To that end my policy, each and every time I walk into my bank, and each and every time I deal with any government department, local council, or business that is part of the great club of profligacy, I am going to give them hell. I will lecture them, loudly, I will point out their misuse of their position, I will draw their attention to their misdeeds and I will make myself as awkward as it is possible to be within the law. I urge others to do the same.

VP

A nightmare scenario and pretty accurate I reckon.

When you think about modern society, we're already pretty much there.

Councils, the police force and the court system have become private corporations. They are listed in Dunn and Bradstreet as such. These organizations have become revenue collection services and they operate for profit, not to offer a service to society.

Chilling stuff and set to get much worse. When councils fine someone £350 for leaving their wheelie bin out on the wrong day of the week, you know things are seriously wrong.

[carbonoid]

Or you could just emigrate to a country not run by morons...

well that rules Ireland out! I think ROI is the most indebted nation in the world by a long shot. (not including Monaco / San Marino / generic tax-haven). Seriously, if any of you conspiracy heads out there think govts are competent enough to engage in the conspiracies you guys imagine they do, well let me tell you, the Irish govt. will very quickly disabuse you of that notion. I used to think Irish jokes were derogatory but now, well, if our ruling "elites" are thick as pigshiote, what does that make the rest of us? On the plus side the social welfare is pretty generous: €205/week, before rent/fuel allowance (about another €100).

[libspero]

The implications of this are severe. It means that in order to claw back that debt, every single man, woman, and maybe a number of children or teenagers, are going to be forced to absolutely conform and be part of a system from which escape is impossible. It means that tax, both stealth and direct and indirect, is going to rise enormously and that every person who exists in the UK is going to have to do the hard graft to help pay it all back.

This is the concept that I am trying to grapple with. If we keep borrowing money to counter the huge asset deflation in the housing market we could end up in the position where as a nation we are left with no option but to repay our creditors by printing currency to pay them or else default. Either way it would make CGNAO et al correct. I really hope the government knows what its doing with all of this borrowing.

[Guest mattsta1964]

This is the concept that I am trying to grapple with. If we keep borrowing money to counter the huge asset deflation in the housing market we could end up in the position where as a nation we are left with no option but to repay our creditors by printing currency to pay them or else default. Either way it would make CGNAO et al correct. I really hope the government knows what its doing with all of this borrowing.

They know it has to be paid, by whatever means.......and that includes by asset stripping the people, which is what is happening right now

[Guest adp]

It is hard to imagine what part of the world isn't implicated in or going to suffer for this folly. It is the downside of the global village. If some part of this crippling tax burden does go to help pensioners who are now facing no pensions or others who are truly struggling, then I will not resent it nearly so much. My fear is it will be wasted in more pointless and mad bureaucratic semi-privatized schemes invented for profit and to make all of our lives just that bit more miserable.

[wonderpup]

It would be nice to see at least some effort made to claw back some of the obscene amounts paid out in city bonusus over the last few years- it would help morale if nothing else. But it won't happen because, apparently, all those smart bankers would leave the country- and without them, well, we could end up with some sort of financial disaster...oh.

You really do find youself wondering why play the game by the rules, when the rules seem designed to funnel wealth to the already wealthy and remove it from the rest of us.

[Flatdog]

(SNIP)

I urge others to do the same.

VP

(All your own words VP?)....will do, being as I am sufficiently pi$$ed off with just about everything.

[DementedTuna]

The only prediction I am willing to make, and am relatively certain about, is that income tax will rise by at least 5p in the pound in the next budget.

"America's fault" will probably be the reason stated.

If it hits 30%, with a higher rate of 50%... then stuff that, I'm out of this place, and taking my taxes with me. Hong Kong is looking pretty appealing already considering that my work only requires a computer and internet access to complete. I am also well aware of the hideous tax rates of the 80's... could they return?

This isn't just going to be an exodus of the rich, it's going to take out a lot of talented working class, too.

Taxes have to go up, and those with bad mortgages have to go bankrupt and lose their homes, we can't keep paying for them. I'm glad NR is kicking people out at any opportunity.

Edited October 20, 2008 by DementedTuna

[Flatdog]

It would be nice to see at least some effort made to claw back some of the obscene amounts paid out in city bonusus over the last few years- it would help morale if nothing else. But it won't happen because, apparently, all those smart bankers would leave the country- and without them, well, we could end up with some sort of financial disaster...oh.

You really do find youself wondering why play the game by the rules, when the rules seem designed to funnel wealth to the already wealthy and remove it from the rest of us.

Not really much point in playing the game unless it is apparent who makes the rules.

[AffordableHousing]

...............

These people are out of control. It cannot go on. How can that sort of burden be imposed upon children who know nothing about this and have no choice.

The next generation is so screwed: let us not forget, one day they will be looking after us in our dotage. Thay are going to be so p!ssed off when they see what we have done to them.

...............

These little sh*ts P*ss through our letter boxes, graffiti all over the place and terrorise entire communities.

We're not allowed to clip them round the ear so we dump on them a lifetime of debt instead.

I haven't a problem with that.

Anyway, anyone who brings a child into the World in this day and age needs shooting, are they blind or just bloody stupid.

80 odd years in this fascist sh*t hole place, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, lifetime of debt or not.

I blame voters, they are to blame for all our woes.

[warpig]

I doubt you'll really get a chance before the next General Election.

£100,000, according to Newsnight, is the level of debt PER UK HOUSEHOLD, which is likely to be established when combining already established personal debt with government debt as a result of buying its way out of recession. This is clearly an untenable sum, since it is an average, and I would guess half of all households are in fact not already seriously in debt on their own behalf. That could imply that many other households will be identified as carrying a burden of maybe £150,000.

The implications of this are severe. It means that in order to claw back that debt, every single man, woman, and maybe a number of children or teenagers, are going to be forced to absolutely conform and be part of a system from which escape is impossible. It means that tax, both stealth and direct and indirect, is going to rise enormously and that every person who exists in the UK is going to have to do the hard graft to help pay it all back.

It must be occuring to many people who have not spent the last ten years racking up personal debt and living beyond their means, or acquiring mortgages for over-priced housing, that they are now going to be inextricably part of a system which requires them to pay for the profligacy of others. It confirms the theme that I have posted about many many times on this forum for the past four years: There is no such thing as REAL wealth in property, it is merely temporary wealth and a redistribution of it from those at the bottom of the pyramid to those at the top. The huge and ridiculous profits taken by those who played roullete and won WILL NOW HAVE TO BE PAID FOR BY THOSE WHO HAD NO PART IN THE MADNESS.

It means that Local Councils, already in breach of several UK and European laws in their quest to rake in Council Tax, will further extend their already Nazi-like tactics in order to intimidate, bully and threaten those who simply cannot afford to pay the grossly inflated local taxation which has gone out of control. It means that already failed but bailed building societies are going to employ heavies whose tactics will eclipse those of already outrageous baillifs and mafia-types recruited to do their dirty work.

It implies that there will be absolutely no option to bypass the national system which requires each and every person to be utterly obedient and work, slave like, for the state because the state and its friends behaved appallingly and allowed this mess to occur. I have owned and run a moderately successful small business for eight years. I've kept my nose clean and kept my spending sensible. I have no debts and a little cash. I am simply not prepared to become a slave to the new order of paying back someone else's debt that I had nothing to do with. To that end my policy, each and every time I walk into my bank, and each and every time I deal with any government department, local council, or business that is part of the great club of profligacy, I am going to give them hell. I will lecture them, loudly, I will point out their misuse of their position, I will draw their attention to their misdeeds and I will make myself as awkward as it is possible to be within the law. I urge others to do the same.

VP

[DementedTuna]

These little sh*ts P*ss through our letter boxes, graffiti all over the place and terrorise entire communities.

We're not allowed to clip them round the ear so we dump on them a lifetime of debt instead.

I haven't a problem with that.

Nope, I'm afraid the little shits will never get a job, will never pay a penny of that debt and will have their food, housing, heating, sky tv, fags, 500ml cans of Halfords matt black etc. all paid for by the silent masses of people currently aged 20-50 and working their @rse off. Anyone 50+ is fine, unless they've got a pension fund.. or a house.

Edited October 20, 2008 by DementedTuna

[mattyboy1973]

And there are still people on here who think that deflation is going to be the outcome

[warpig]

No, but until your wage/salary is indexed link in some form you will suffer this debt.

And there are still people on here who think that deflation is going to be the outcome

[UndercoverElephant]

The next generation is so screwed: let us not forget, one day they will be looking after us in our dotage. Thay are going to be so p!ssed off when they see what we have done to them.

The thing is, the next generation would already have been screwed because we've used up the lion's share of the fossil fuel and other mineral resources, ****ed the climate, reproduce to plague proportions and fatally undermined much of the forests and arable land.

The Whole System has to find a new balance, and the next generation, and the generation after that, will pay a terrible price.

"Living beyond our means" doesn't just apply to economics. The bottom line is that there are too many humans on planet earth. Malthus was right. And he was an economist.

Edited October 21, 2008 by UndercoverElephant

[Guest mattsta1964]

These little sh*ts P*ss through our letter boxes, graffiti all over the place and terrorise entire communities.

We're not allowed to clip them round the ear so we dump on them a lifetime of debt instead.

I haven't a problem with that.

Anyway, anyone who brings a child into the World in this day and age needs shooting, are they blind or just bloody stupid.

80 odd years in this fascist sh*t hole place, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, lifetime of debt or not.

I blame voters, they are to blame for all our woes.

It doesn't help that the state doesn't educate people though does it?

[mirage]

Seems way higher than other figures I've heard.

What's the break down for this 100k?

Does it include off balance sheet unfunded liabilities like PFI and some public sector pensions?

[Flatdog]

The thing is, the next generation would already have been screwed because we've used up the lion's share of the fossil fuel and other mineral resources, ****ed the climate, reproduce to plague proportions and fatally undermined much of the forests and arable land.

The Whole System has to find a new balance, and the next generation, and the generation after that, will pay a terrible price.

"Living beyond our means" doesn't just apply to economics. The bottom line is that there are too many humans on planet earth. Malthus was right. And he was an economist.

So the size of the planet and its inability to support living beings is the problem...any suggestions?

[UndercoverElephant]

So the size of the planet and its inability to support living beings is the problem.

The planet is a decent size, and it has been supporting living beings for something like 5 billion years. It just can't support 7 billion humans, especially when most of them aspire to live like Americans. EDIT: like Americans have done until now. Boy are they going down the toilet.

..any suggestions?

Don't make any more baby humans?

Edited October 21, 2008 by UndercoverElephant

[Britney's Piers]

Who is all this national debt owed to? Is there someone walking about trillions out of pocket right now?

Edited October 21, 2008 by Britney's Piers

[UndercoverElephant]

Who is all this national debt owed to?

China, Japan, the oil exporters, investors...

Edited October 21, 2008 by UndercoverElephant

[Prof]

It must be occuring to many people who have not spent the last ten years racking up personal debt and living beyond their means, or acquiring mortgages for over-priced housing, that they are now going to be inextricably part of a system which requires them to pay for the profligacy of others. It confirms the theme that I have posted about many many times on this forum for the past four years: There is no such thing as REAL wealth in property, it is merely temporary wealth and a redistribution of it from those at the bottom of the pyramid to those at the top. The huge and ridiculous profits taken by those who played roullete and won WILL NOW HAVE TO BE PAID FOR BY THOSE WHO HAD NO PART IN THE MADNESS.

It occurred to me a few years ago that many where living beyond their means, now we are all in debt beyond our means.

Every day that goes by, we get drip fed more and more bad financial news. This will not be news to many of the members on this forum. I`m getting more angry as I witness more of what was predicted over the past few years. I remember reading the bull from the bulls on this site. Where are they now ? Why don`t they come and face the music ? The greedy, misinformed "property only goes up" brigade have gone a little quiet lately. When we didn`t want to hear them, they were shouting loudly. Now we want to hear from them, silence.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Prof