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Definition of chasing down the market:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-50458008.html

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In a very desirable road with big plots, but the actual house is odd, a lot of work spent on garden but the layout is not great, upstairs bedrooms restricted height and on a slope so extensions would be costly.

 

I do get satisfaction knowing that the boomer owners originally thought they were getting in the region of £500K! It is now on sale with two agents and still not sold. I would imagine it would go soon as that road has some expensive properties on it. 

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On 04/05/2018 at 02:47, fandanman said:

Yeah I always see these shops in slum towns, I went to Grays in Essex (Christ thats grim) the other day, full of these sort of shops. I also went to Dartford in Kent not so long ago, busting at the seams with all the big names shops.

Not sure why Reading isn't on this list? It seem to be full of Northern towns for some reason.

 

Reading is fairly obviously not a slum, however it is city-sized and has some of the consequent traits. In terms of feel then I suppose it's the Essex to neighbouring Surrey in a way, there are fewer private schools for example and obviously rather less money washing around. 

So it makes sense for property to be relatively cheaper, though it's not in a unique position - you could look nearby to say Farnborough, for example.

I went to look at Ashford, Kent, and the town is proper-grim, and if you want to actually use the train, it's a good 50% more expensive than from Reading. If you're happy to do all your shopping online and like having your own land, then it's obviously much better!

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Just an update on no news - Reading market appears to be frozen.  

Search for houses between 200 and 250 k returns roughly the same small number of crappy 2 bed terraces as it has over the last year.

I am also still witnessing lots of refurbishments in progress around my way.  I guess new entrants are still polishing their 2-bed turds and longer term BTLs have gained so much that S24 is not bothering them yet.

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On 04/12/2017 at 07:05, spyguy said:

More of the same thing Ive been flagging up.

https://www.ft.com/content/ebe08914-d6bc-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9

'Facebook to recruit 800 staff for new London office'

Growing tech companies are not considering the Thames valley.

Software jobs are high paying now that they are moving to London and no SW wants to move to M4 corridor.

M4 has the companies like HP, MS, both of which are shedding the higher paying jobs.

https://www.cringely.com/2018/08/08/it-is-urbanizing-mcdonalds-gets-it-but-woonsocket-doesnt-yet/

Merka.

'My favorite UK TV producer once had to sell his house in Wimbledon and move to an apartment in Central London just to get his two adult sons to finally leave home. Now something similar seems to be happening in American IT. Some people are calling it age discrimination. I’m not sure I’d go that far, but the strategy is clear: IT is urbanizing — moving to city centers where the labor force is perceived as being younger and more agile.'

 

I disagree with the 'younger and more agile'

Its because the demand for software is soo high and the number of software people is so low that the any company wanting to recruit 50+ has to move where the public transport hubs are.

The (old) commuting areas, in the UKS case - M4- are too congested.

And, as a job, SW pays so much, that you'll be told to fux is you suggest relocating to bracknell.

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Ha ha the congestion moron returns, we can all pull out snippets such as

http://www.jll.co.uk/united-kingdom/en-gb/services/property-sectors/tech-and-media-sector/tech-space/reading-global-hotspot-multi-national-tech?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=1675706608&utm_campaign=MARKETING+CAMPAIGNnon-specificnon-specific-service-industry

or

https://www.itproportal.com/features/why-successful-tech-businesses-dont-have-to-be-based-in-the-capital/

Its really funny, someone who bangs on about M4/Reading congestion.... yeah why not move to a city like london where the average speed is approx 15 mph by car or spend a fortune on a horrendous, expensive, no seat  commute into the smog.

No wonder  a lot of companies are beginning to look elsewhere, maybe the US IT companies are a bit behind the curve, who knows Spyguy but they certainly ain't moving to an area near you ?

 

 

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Anyway a quick update on the Reading property market, same as 2008ish. A small mark down here and there, anything decent still selling reasonably quickly and the dross takes longer to sell. I reckon we are down around 10% from early 2016 highs with bits of dross having to knock off a few more percent. Because of the amount of jobs available (especially IT) and Crossrail opening on the horizon I am not sure we are going that much lower, especially as anyone who bought pre 2014 is still 20% plus up, lets see.

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9 hours ago, fandanman said:

Ha ha the congestion moron returns, we can all pull out snippets such as

http://www.jll.co.uk/united-kingdom/en-gb/services/property-sectors/tech-and-media-sector/tech-space/reading-global-hotspot-multi-national-tech?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=1675706608&utm_campaign=MARKETING+CAMPAIGNnon-specificnon-specific-service-industry

or

https://www.itproportal.com/features/why-successful-tech-businesses-dont-have-to-be-based-in-the-capital/

Its really funny, someone who bangs on about M4/Reading congestion.... yeah why not move to a city like london where the average speed is approx 15 mph by car or spend a fortune on a horrendous, expensive, no seat  commute into the smog.

No wonder  a lot of companies are beginning to look elsewhere, maybe the US IT companies are a bit behind the curve, who knows Spyguy but they certainly ain't moving to an area near you ?

 

 

London has a large public tranaport system - tube, train even boats.

M4 corridor does not. Cars and busses all getting stuck in the same choke points.

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9 hours ago, fandanman said:

Ha ha the congestion moron returns, we can all pull out snippets such as

http://www.jll.co.uk/united-kingdom/en-gb/services/property-sectors/tech-and-media-sector/tech-space/reading-global-hotspot-multi-national-tech?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=1675706608&utm_campaign=MARKETING+CAMPAIGNnon-specificnon-specific-service-industry

or

https://www.itproportal.com/features/why-successful-tech-businesses-dont-have-to-be-based-in-the-capital/

Its really funny, someone who bangs on about M4/Reading congestion.... yeah why not move to a city like london where the average speed is approx 15 mph by car or spend a fortune on a horrendous, expensive, no seat  commute into the smog.

No wonder  a lot of companies are beginning to look elsewhere, maybe the US IT companies are a bit behind the curve, who knows Spyguy but they certainly ain't moving to an area near you ?

 

 

Jll are a real estate developer. They would say that.

I didnt say relocate to capitals. Software development is moving to cities with good transport link i.e. not cars.

Reading is a big railway hub. Future for 2m radius around the station is relatively bright - if you can convinve people to move there.

Rest of m4 corridor towns? Poor.

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You didn't say relocate to the capital but post articles telling us how all the bug US firms are moving to London and every other town is dead or f$cked because of the horrendous traffic?

And for the last 2 years you've been telling us all that Reading and the M4 corridor is on life support but now your goal posts have changed in that 2 miles around the Reading station is now "relatively bright".

"Software development is moving to cities with good transport link i.e. not cars." No its not, you made that up. 

"London has a large public tranaport system - tube, train even boats." Yes but you have to A: live there first which most people cannot afford to do or B: Commute in, which I am sure I can remember you were banging on about the sky high fares, standing all the way in cattle trucks in previous ramblings. 

May I suggest dear Spyguy you haven't got a f$cking clue what you're on about, you just spout headlines that fit your narrative.

 

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48 minutes ago, fandanman said:

You didn't say relocate to the capital but post articles telling us how all the bug US firms are moving to London and every other town is dead or f$cked because of the horrendous traffic?

And for the last 2 years you've been telling us all that Reading and the M4 corridor is on life support but now your goal posts have changed in that 2 miles around the Reading station is now "relatively bright".

"Software development is moving to cities with good transport link i.e. not cars." No its not, you made that up. 

"London has a large public tranaport system - tube, train even boats." Yes but you have to A: live there first which most people cannot afford to do or B: Commute in, which I am sure I can remember you were banging on about the sky high fares, standing all the way in cattle trucks in previous ramblings. 

May I suggest dear Spyguy you haven't got a f$cking clue what you're on about, you just spout headlines that fit your narrative.

 

I used to work (in London) with a software developer from Reading, it took her 8 years to find a job in Reading and stop commuting to London.  I don't think the market is that great in Reading (of course her experience could have been unusual).

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23 hours ago, fandanman said:

Anyway a quick update on the Reading property market, same as 2008ish. A small mark down here and there, anything decent still selling reasonably quickly and the dross takes longer to sell. I reckon we are down around 10% from early 2016 highs with bits of dross having to knock off a few more percent. Because of the amount of jobs available (especially IT) and Crossrail opening on the horizon I am not sure we are going that much lower, especially as anyone who bought pre 2014 is still 20% plus up, lets see.

I agree that the market is flat at the moment but completely disagree about the potential for future losses:

- lots of rental properties which will only fully reflect their unprofitability potential once all stages of Section 24 are rolled out in couple of years time

- London is falling quicker.  Why bother commuting from Reading if London becomes cheap enough.  In particular, rail fares (including magical house-price-inflation Crossrail) are rising faster than house prices

- Lots of immigrants come straight to Reading looking for work.  Brexit and all that can't possibly help

- While buyers from few years ago are probably immune to IR rises, any recent movers would be pretty sensitive to any changes now.  And the only way is up

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On 15/08/2018 at 16:30, spyguy said:

https://www.cringely.com/2018/08/08/it-is-urbanizing-mcdonalds-gets-it-but-woonsocket-doesnt-yet/

Merka.

'My favorite UK TV producer once had to sell his house in Wimbledon and move to an apartment in Central London just to get his two adult sons to finally leave home. Now something similar seems to be happening in American IT. Some people are calling it age discrimination. I’m not sure I’d go that far, but the strategy is clear: IT is urbanizing — moving to city centers where the labor force is perceived as being younger and more agile.'

 

I disagree with the 'younger and more agile'

Its because the demand for software is soo high and the number of software people is so low that the any company wanting to recruit 50+ has to move where the public transport hubs are.

The (old) commuting areas, in the UKS case - M4- are too congested.

And, as a job, SW pays so much, that you'll be told to fux is you suggest relocating to bracknell.

 

So you say Reading house prices will go down, what about London

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10 hours ago, vincent said:

 

So you say Reading house prices will go down, what about London

When London falls, Reading collapses. 

The finance sector has driven London SE from the mid 80s til 2008. Creating lots of well paying jobs.

That sector is still contracting. Reamed infact.

London SE wage have gone nlwhere for over 15 years.

Id guess most new household formations in London have been foriegn and benegit dependent.

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

When London falls, Reading collapses. 

The finance sector has driven London SE from the mid 80s til 2008. Creating lots of well paying jobs.

That sector is still contracting. Reamed infact.

London SE wage have gone nlwhere for over 15 years.

Id guess most new household formations in London have been foriegn and benegit dependent.

I assume this is because of IT and AI

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

When London falls, Reading collapses. 

The finance sector has driven London SE from the mid 80s til 2008. Creating lots of well paying jobs.

That sector is still contracting. Reamed infact.

London SE wage have gone nlwhere for over 15 years.

Id guess most new household formations in London have been foriegn and benegit dependent.

This is my view despite the hype over Cross-rail and the seemingly buoyant local economy in Reading.  One of the weaknesses that Reading has is there is little 'old' money in the area; as jobs go spending can collapse quickly.  Lots of its apparent wealth is driven primarily by IT related jobs and, to a lesser extent, work in financial services.  Yes it has a good shopping district, yes it has a University and a large regional Hospital who are all big employers but its IT and Financial Services who are the big payers and they are shrinking, in part due to the fear of Brexit.  My guess is that much of the commuters around Reading who are fleeced nicely by the Rail Companies will have less incentive to stay if London housing becomes cheaper.

I am hopeful that conditions are in place for a nice slide in house prices round Reading but I am usually wrong!

Edited by dougless
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3 hours ago, vincent said:

I assume this is because of IT and AI

No.

Fall in finance jobs is down to less leverage and that money is best done with computers rather than people.

The IT in Reading m4 was the guants of the 90s - hp, ms, oracle. These are on thei uppers.

I expect ms to move to london soon.

Hp are basically dead.

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3 hours ago, dougless said:

This is my view despite the hype over Cross-rail and the seemingly buoyant local economy in Reading.  One of the weaknesses that Reading has is there is little 'old' money in the area; as jobs go spending can collapse quickly.  Lots of its apparent wealth is driven primarily by IT related jobs and, to a lesser extent, work in financial services.  Yes it has a good shopping district, yes it has a University and a large regional Hospital who are all big employers but its IT and Financial Services who are the big payers and they are shrinking, in part due to the fear of Brexit.  My guess is that much of the commuters around Reading who are fleeced nicely by the Rail Companies will have less incentive to stay if London housing becomes cheaper.

I am hopeful that conditions are in place for a nice slide in house prices round Reading but I am usually wrong!

Id add that, not only does Readung lack old money, theres been a huge rise in hot money - a large increase in foreign nationals in the area, mainly dependent on tax credits.

The last census figures were shocking. White, working Brits have been replaced by foreign benefit claimants.

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3 hours ago, spyguy said:

Id add that, not only does Readung lack old money, theres been a huge rise in hot money - a large increase in foreign nationals in the area, mainly dependent on tax credits.

The last census figures were shocking. White, working Brits have been replaced by foreign benefit claimants.

I guess they cannot keep the plates spinning much longer, with brexit taking all the attention places like reading will not be a nice place to live as they cannot keep drip feeding resources 

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https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/berkshire-house-buying-getting-harder-and-harder/

Quote

New figures from Reach PLC's Data Unit show the 'affordability ratio' - the gap between personal income and house prices has increased by 21 per cent since 2013.

This means people hoping to buy homes in the south east, including Reading, Bracknell and Wokingham, are looking at paying 11.9 times their salary for a home.

This is the second biggest affordability ratio in the country.

 

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On 21/08/2018 at 08:55, spyguy said:

Jll are a real estate developer. They would say that.

I didnt say relocate to capitals. Software development is moving to cities with good transport link i.e. not cars.

Reading is a big railway hub. Future for 2m radius around the station is relatively bright - if you can convinve people to move there.

Rest of m4 corridor towns? Poor.

Wokingham and Bracknell? 12 or 15 minutes by train to Reading and then 45 mins on cross rail to Canary Wharf, or 5 miles to Twyford and then 41 mins on cross rail to Canary Wharf. Both have undergone/undergoing significant town centre and road improvements too.

Fact is wherever there are people and jobs and money there will be traffic. 

If i didn't have a perm job and a nice house though I'd be moving to Bristol so I can sort of agree with you. 

Startups will burn money like crazy and be located in some hipster infested oh so cool edgy bit of a city but the good companies that actually grow and don't fold with eventually be acquired by a stack vendor or Private Equity. Either of those will focus on managing fixed costs (operational gearing) and look to lower headcount costs and facilities costs. Hard to do in a large trendy city. Easy to do in somewhere like Reading when it's relatively cheap and has great links to the biggest airport in UK for the US talking heads to fly in and out from. I'd even wager that it's quicker to get from Heathrow to my office on the outskirts of Reading than it is to get from Heathrow to silicone roundabout. 

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On 21/08/2018 at 13:33, iamnumerate said:

I used to work (in London) with a software developer from Reading, it took her 8 years to find a job in Reading and stop commuting to London.  I don't think the market is that great in Reading (of course her experience could have been unusual).

No offence to her but there are 37 permenant jobs within 10 miles of Reading paying £55k or over. Maybe she was fussy?

https://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?q=Software+Developer+£55%2C000&l=Reading&radius=10

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2 minutes ago, adarmo said:

Wokingham and Bracknell? 12 or 15 minutes by train to Reading and then 45 mins on cross rail to Canary Wharf, or 5 miles to Twyford and then 41 mins on cross rail to Canary Wharf. Both have undergone/undergoing significant town centre and road improvements too.

Fact is wherever there are people and jobs and money there will be traffic. 

If i didn't have a perm job and a nice house though I'd be moving to Bristol so I can sort of agree with you. 

Startups will burn money like crazy and be located in some hipster infested oh so cool edgy bit of a city but the good companies that actually grow and don't fold with eventually be acquired by a stack vendor or Private Equity. Either of those will focus on managing fixed costs (operational gearing) and look to lower headcount costs and facilities costs. Hard to do in a large trendy city. Easy to do in somewhere like Reading when it's relatively cheap and has great links to the biggest airport in UK for the US talking heads to fly in and out from. I'd even wager that it's quicker to get from Heathrow to my office on the outskirts of Reading than it is to get from Heathrow to silicone roundabout. 

Its connections that kill you on public transport.

In the Thames valley youve got to get to the station and pay to park there.

Lets take Mr Wokingham.

10m to get to station,  10m wait, 15m to Rdg, 20m wait, 30m to Pton, 30m tube.

It all adds up. And its not cheap.

I think CrossRail will be a damp squib. Finance has still not stopped contracting.

 

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On 26/08/2018 at 09:19, Bear Hug said:

I don't think this is a valid metric these days. They take the average house price and divide it by the average salary of one of its buyers, not both. Granted that would take the ratio to circa 6 which is still crazy, but then role in a deposit and the average would be about 5 times joint earnings? 

Not saying it's a good thing but saying that this is crap journalism. 

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