Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Mega

B&b To Be Taken Over By Northern Rock!

Recommended Posts

:angry: so the good old British taxpayer gets saddled with all the rubbish debts, meanwhile the banks get given all the high quality mortgages, loans, and deposits.

Disgraceful !

But we'll keep paying.

And they - Labour and Conservative - will keep doing it to us until we decide to stop.

Which we won't.

Marvellous (but annoying) trait that we Brits have isn't it...?

That big, fat stiff upper lip...

X

Y

Y

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not feeling very well today due to a gall stone problem that seems to have flared up despite an operation. Seems to have affected my demeanour.

Feeling a bit better now but you could say I have been full of bile today - indeed I literally am full of bile :lol: !

Try peppermint tea, helps a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Try peppermint tea, helps a bit.

Thanks. I will give it a try.

Hearing that we the tax payers are on the hook for £41 bn of B&B subprime and BTL loans has not helped though.

Assuming they all default and we sell of the properties at 65% discount to original purchase price as seems to be the case in a number of auctions I have seen reported on HPC means we the tax payer should get about £17 bn of that back.

I have no idea why the bond holders cannot just take the hit. We seem to be bailing them out. The business is bust why can't people just lose some investment money here. I know the shareholders will lose but why not the bondholders?

Edited by Wad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a done deal. B&B to be nationalised

We'll only nationalise the crappy bits. B&B get to sell the decent bits. No doubt senior management will get their share of the bonuses and will be laughing all the way to the bank (not the one they just trashed of course). Government by the criminals for the criminals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks. I will give it a try.

Hearing that we the tax payers are on the hook for £41 bn of B&B subprime and BTL loans has not helped though.

Assuming they all default and we sell of the properties at 65% discount to original purchase price as seems to be the case in a number of auctions I have seen reported on HPC means we the tax payer should get about £17 bn of that back.

I have no idea why the bond holders cannot just take the hit. We seem to be bailing them out. The business is bust why can't people just lose some investment money here. I know the shareholders will lose but why not the bondholders?

To be honest I've given up getting upset about it. The government has selective hearing on any issue. Short of riots and revolution I don't think you could get them to listen and even if you did, the socially disconected f@ckwits would get it all ass upwards. They will end up blowing the whole thing up themselves. Banks are going boom because people can't pay their debts, paying more tax is really going to help that maxed out situation.

I've done what I can to protect myself as much as I can. Now I think we will all have to live on our wits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you divide 41 billion by the 17 million families in the UK thats £2412 each

even if they only lose 20% on this 'investment' thats an extra £500 per family you can expect to be paying via tax over the next few years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If Santander buys B&B, it would probably not take all of the branches, and would want to avoid taking the worst assets. As an incentive for Santander, the Government could remove the good mortgage assets from Northern Rock and hand them over to the Spanish bank.

Oh FFS! So Santander get all the "good" mortgages, and the taxpayer gets billions of pounds worth of toxic worthless rubbish :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just dont understand why the govt. cant use the existing money to refund depositors, then sell off all the other assets to make up any shortfall.

Then just let the rest die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we all get to share £40 billion of buy to let negative equity.

I don't mind paying taxes for schools and hospitals I don't use, but I object to paying a massive amount to shore up the finances of BTL landlords, who I see are now being described as "victims" and "casualties" of the credit crunch. The language implies that these people deserve sympathy and support (money).

As soon as they're in the black again they'lll tell us to sod off, while they boast of their property developing profits. We'll never see this money again. It's a disgraceful abuse of power.

The other thing that scares me is that the government now seems to directly own a very high proportion of the UK mortgage debt, through liquidity schemes, NR and B and B, and ? secret deals over HBOS. Does anyone have a guess about how much of the UK £1.2 trillion in personal debt is now directly owed to the government? Won't this totally distort the way the governemnt deals with the financial crisis? It has a vested interest in allowing high inflation/rising prices to dilute the debt??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you divide 41 billion by the 17 million families in the UK thats £2412 each

even if they only lose 20% on this 'investment' thats an extra £500 per family you can expect to be paying via tax over the next few years

:(:(:(:( Cobined with the 2k+ on Northern Rock, I now have more negative equity than in 1992, and this time I don't even have a mortgage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This may not be as bad as it seems. If the government go the Northern Rock route, they will be trying to offload as many of the BTL mortgages as possible by offering uncompetitive rates to force the mortgage holders elsewhere. With the current climate, the BTLers won't be able to get a mortgage and may have to sell up or be repossesed releasing the property back into a falling market causing prices to go down even more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just dont understand why the govt. cant use the existing money to refund depositors, then sell off all the other assets to make up any shortfall.

'cos no-one will buy that BTL shiite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These arguments must be heard beyond this forum. Most people don't do economics, therefore, they're easy targets for the BBC (Brown Broadcasting Corporation). We have a collective duty to speak to others, in order to raise their awareness. Brown and any other politician will do what's sensible, but only once they've seen thousands protesting in the streets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Presumably by not letting the bank fall into administration the taxpayer is on the hook for the £1 billion of GMAC mortgages still to be bought (as part of the renegotiated deal).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So we all get to share £40 billion of buy to let negative equity.

I don't mind paying taxes for schools and hospitals I don't use, but I object to paying a massive amount to shore up the finances of BTL landlords, who I see are now being described as "victims" and "casualties" of the credit crunch. The language implies that these people deserve sympathy and support (money)...

So true.

Why are we (tax payers) being used to bail out the system that has excluded us from buying a home?!

Words cannot express how livid this makes me feel.

:angry: :angry: :angry: 50 BILLION! FFS! :angry: :angry: :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about this point of view...

Farewell B&B

http://ukhousebubble.blogspot.com/2008/09/so-farewell-b.html

The demise of the B&B is a serious blow to the buy-to-let business. In future, investors will need to receive a significant risk premium if they are to be persuaded to invest in specialist BTL investors.

The end of the B&B also rules out any serious possiblity of banks recapitalizing via rights issues. Anyone who invested in the B&B earlier this summer would have literally thrown their money away. Investors won't make the same mistake again.

Like the NRK failure, the end of the B&B marks a major turning point on the road towards deflating the UK's housing bubble. Just as the NRK collapse signaled the end of the high LTV retail mortgage; the B&B signals the end of the BTL loan to highly leveraged small time speculators.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you divide 41 billion by the 17 million families in the UK thats £2412 each

even if they only lose 20% on this 'investment' thats an extra £500 per family you can expect to be paying via tax over the next few years

You're assuming the govt will actually pay the face value of these loans? I doubt they are paying a penny for them - which in that case means a bonus for the taxpayer not a burden if even a small percentage are paid back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not feeling very well today due to a gall stone problem that seems to have flared up despite an operation. Seems to have affected my demeanour.

Feeling a bit better now but you could say I have been full of bile today - indeed I literally am full of bile :lol: !

Don't whatever you do be tempted to do a gall bladder flush! I nearly poisoned myself with epsom salts! COuld have caused a stone to get stuck in a duct, very dodgy.

On the other hand apples and fresh pressed apple juice softens the buggers up, and laying off the icecream and cheese at night is a good thing too. I reckon it's something in the water that causes em.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't whatever you do be tempted to do a gall bladder flush! I nearly poisoned myself with epsom salts! COuld have caused a stone to get stuck in a duct, very dodgy.

On the other hand apples and fresh pressed apple juice softens the buggers up, and laying off the icecream and cheese at night is a good thing too. I reckon it's something in the water that causes em.

I have had the gall bladder out already but the odd stone sometimes hangs around in the tube. You are right about cheese and ice cream and not eating at night.

Apologies to everyone. I did not mean this turn into a personal health thread.

I am feeling better today. Calmed down about the B&B a bit now - I think that helped. Just reviewing my bank acounts to check I have not exceeded the bank guarantee limit though. You never know which one is going down next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vince is on the money again is Vince our Eric ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...old-944940.html

"Liberal Democrat treasury spokesman Vince Cable said the bank's problems were the result of a "collapsing housing bubble built on a toxic mix of buy-to-let speculation and self-certified mortgages".

Calling for a full, independent audit of B&B's accounts, Mr Cable said: "I suspect that a substantial proportion of the bank's assets are of poor quality because of loose self certification and because of the speculative element in buy to let.

"It's important that the taxpayer is given a full and honest statement of what it is that the Government has taken on, even recognising that there was no alternative to public ownership following the collapse of market confidence."

He added: "I will be writing to Alistair Darling with practical suggestions on how the Government can intervene decisively in housing, given that a vast amount of tax payers' money is now tied up with the mortgage lending business, the state of collapse in the house building industry and the inevitable tide of repossessions from the growing numbers of redundant employees unless action is taken through the courts to stem the flow." "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're assuming the govt will actually pay the face value of these loans? I doubt they are paying a penny for them - which in that case means a bonus for the taxpayer not a burden if even a small percentage are paid back.

It sounds like the way it will work is that the government will take ownership of the company in its entirety and then sell off the branch network and retail deposits in one go. This will leave them with bond holders and wholesale depositors on one side, mortgages on the other - shareholders will get wiped out I expect. Presumably, they'll need to lend B&B another 20B or some immediately to fill the gap left by the retail deposits and then more over time as the wholesale depositors get their money back and bonds mature. So, they will end up, over time, paying face value for all of the mortgages hoping to recover most of the money over time a la NR. If they're lucky, the money they get for the branch network and retail customers might cover most of the losses from the mortgage book (particularly if they also push up mortgage rates for anyone who can't move to another lender) but, personally, I doubt it. If there was much chance of a long run turnaround, the share price wouldn't have tanked the way it did to start with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're assuming the govt will actually pay the face value of these loans? I doubt they are paying a penny for them - which in that case means a bonus for the taxpayer not a burden if even a small percentage are paid back.

Even if they are being given this 'for free' - the bank will have assets and liabilities, if the liabilities prove to be 20% higher than the assets, guess who will be paying the difference?

The fact that no other commercial organisation wants to take on the BB loan book tells you all you need to know, maybe it will only lose a little money, maybe it will lose a lot, but evidently none of the other banks think it's a worthwhile investment.

I can see the next stage of this will be that the gov't will suddenly make it make it harder for people to walk away from mortgage debts.

When it comes to debt recovery is owing HM Goverment £100K worse than owing B&B £100K ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 333 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.