What Do Dwp Define As 'savings' For The Purpose Of Claiming Housing Benefit?

[DavidSWP]

To claim housing benefit (whether to pay rent or interest on a mortgage) you can't have savings or investments above £16000 and anything over £3000 will reduce the rate. I'm just wondering if anyone on here knows what the DWP classes as 'savings' and 'investments'. For example would they look at mortgage equity, shares and unit trust investments, gold holdings etc.

I'm just wondering because I'm possibly going to make a risky move into contract IT Development work from my secure but dull permanent job. Its possible although unlikely that I could get a months work and then be out of a job. I'm currently renting and have savings close to the cut off limit in both cash and unit trusts. If my contract ended early I'd like to get housing benefit hopefully for a short time before I find something else, so therefore need to make my money not count as savings. Worth buying gold, paintings, classic cars ??

I'm pretty sure that mortgage equity won't be considered (I might be wrong) so I think its unfair that the money I've been saving for a deposit would stop me from claiming this.

[DblEntry]

Swiss bank account?

[VeryMeanReversion]

I'm pretty sure that mortgage equity won't be considered (I might be wrong) so I think its unfair that the money I've been saving for a deposit would stop me from claiming this.

Welcome to the "system". I ran into this one when I claimed unemployment a few years ago. I asked if I would get more benefits if I used my STR fund to buy some Ferraris to minimise my official savings. They said yes, but we don't like you doing that.

Make sure your gold is just your "antique coin collection" or onlyjewellery.

In my twilight years, my plan is to have officially no savings (i.e. gold and non-measured assets). This bumps up your state pension from around 5k to 8k (min guaranteed). That 3K extra income would take the best part of 100k in a pension fund to generate.

VMR.

[whojamaflip]

if you're an IT contractor you can't claim benefits when you are sittting on the bench. I did try claiming when I switched from perm to contract but they said I was paid too much . Anyhow I'm based in swizterland now so out of the system

[NotMyHouse]

Anyhow I'm based in swizterland now so out of the system

No. We live in Swizterland. 'Cos everything is a swiz in the UK.

[@contradevian]

if you're an IT contractor you can't claim benefits when you are sittting on the bench. I did try claiming when I switched from perm to contract but they said I was paid too much . Anyhow I'm based in swizterland now so out of the system

Has something changed? I did when I was an IT contractor (over 8 years ago now) and told them I was a company director but not earning anything.

[whojamaflip]

Has something changed? I did when I was an IT contractor (over 8 years ago now) and told them I was a company director but not earning anything.

another 'tractor told me that company directors couldn't claim benefits... just passing that on.

[youthoftoday]

To claim housing benefit (whether to pay rent or interest on a mortgage) you can't have savings or investments above £16000 and anything over £3000 will reduce the rate. I'm just wondering if anyone on here knows what the DWP classes as 'savings' and 'investments'. For example would they look at mortgage equity, shares and unit trust investments, gold holdings etc.

...

I'm in a similar position with regards to having a large amount of savings and find it extremely irritating that you get denied benefits merely because you haven't spunked all your cash in typical chav fashion. If I am denied benefits then why should I pay tax?

My solution is to have an offset mortgage and so if redundancy does come then with one phone call my mortgage will shrink by 2/3rds overnight. I'm also thinking about 'parking' several thousand in my parent's savings account. Perhaps also with the in-laws too (but that'd be in Euros and so I should have done that last year when it was 1.5 to the £ :angry: ).

[dr ray]

I have a similar problem with my disabled daughter. I want to build up some savings for her because she will likely outlive me but she would not be eligible for any state aid and she is physically unable to work or earn her own living as much as she want to.

If I give the money to her siblings to look afer for her it could be taken off them by a spouse or civil partner.

If I appoint executors and put it in trust the fees would eat into it and she would end up with nothing. And there is no guarantee that GB and future governments would not dip their hands into the fund anyway as he has brought in retrospective legislation and raided savings before so he has a track record.

The system rewards the feckless and wasters.

[Zak823]

Housing (&Council Tax) Benefit are a Local Authority Benefit so have nothing to do with the DWP...

The only input the DWP have is if you make a claim to one of their benefits they provide the Housing & Council Tax benefit claim forms.

Griping against the wrong organisation I'm afraid.

Here's the link:

Direct Gov - Housing Benefit

Edited September 24, 2008 by Zak823

[Nationalist]

That 3K extra income would take the best part of 100k in a pension fund to generate.

Er, no. You could deposit £100K at 5.5% very easily right now and get £5,500pa for it; annuity rates are higher than that, about 7.5% for a 65yo male.

As for "hiding" assets, you could make a loan to a trusted friend or relative and tell them they can roll-up the interest until repayment time and then call it back in at a time when you're not on means-tested benefits. If you wanted to spend some cash while on benefits you could borrow it from the same friend, using your loan to them as collateral.

In fact two people on benefits could probably have a merry old dance loaning money backwards and forwards.

[DementedTuna]

Er, no. You could deposit £100K at 5.5% very easily right now and get £5,500pa for it; annuity rates are higher than that, about 7.5% for a 65yo male.

Deduct inflation from that...

Nice idea about the dual-loans though, that could work pretty well.

Edited September 24, 2008 by DementedTuna

[youthoftoday]

Er, no. You could deposit £100K at 5.5% very easily right now and get £5,500pa for it; annuity rates are higher than that, about 7.5% for a 65yo male.

As for "hiding" assets, you could make a loan to a trusted friend or relative and tell them they can roll-up the interest until repayment time and then call it back in at a time when you're not on means-tested benefits. If you wanted to spend some cash while on benefits you could borrow it from the same friend, using your loan to them as collateral.

In fact two people on benefits could probably have a merry old dance loaning money backwards and forwards.

If I did this then could I package up our multiple loans to each other and sell them to an investment bank? That gives me an idea...

[lulu]

Welcome to the "system". I ran into this one when I claimed unemployment a few years ago. I asked if I would get more benefits if I used my STR fund to buy some Ferraris to minimise my official savings. They said yes, but we don't like you doing that.

This is what is the most annoying aspect.

If you piss your money against the wall on pointless tat you are automatically entitled to all kinds of benefits etc. try to be sensible and put some money aside you are automatically penalised.

I know that if I lose my job tomorrow I will get sod all in relation to benefits despite the fact I have been paying for everyone else to live in apparent luxury for years (well luxury compared to my own lifestyle).

[fiodyl]

Not sure that 'loaning' the money to a friend would work, the LA/DWP will ask to see your bank statments, class this as deprivation of capital and assess your claim as if you still had that money anyway.

[Concrete Jungle]

Bung what you can into the account / care of someone you can trust. The system rewards greatest the chav morons who have no savings or assets, and ignores those who have taken a more prudent approach to life.

[Guest Steve Cook]

Swiss bank account?

yep. this is the way to go

Deny the existence of the money.

If, after inspecting your historical accounts/bank statements, the benefits agency questions you with regards to where the money has gone, you need to say you pissed it up againts the wall or wasted it on the gee gees etc.

A further measure you could take is to feign depression and get a prescription for some happy pills from the doc before you embark on all of this. That way, when the benefits agency questions you about the money dissapearing you can use mental illness as the underlying explanation for your monetary loss. One you have got yourself medicalised, they will tend to give you a wider berth. This is particularly true for illnesses such as depression because it is so hard to prove falsehood. If you had said you hurt your back and so had to spend the savings to pay your bills, they could test this with a medical. With an illness such as depression this is so much harder for them to disprove. I mention depression because it is nice an vague. If you start getting specific, it become easier to specifically falsify your claims. So, keep it general.

Edited September 24, 2008 by Steve Cook

[piece of paper]

To claim housing benefit (whether to pay rent or interest on a mortgage) you can't have savings or investments above £16000 and anything over £3000 will reduce the rate. I'm just wondering if anyone on here knows what the DWP classes as 'savings' and 'investments'. For example would they look at mortgage equity, shares and unit trust investments, gold holdings etc.

The DWP is likely to have a much enlarged customer base soon. It will also have a much reduced budget. Savings and investments could take on a new meaning.

"Have you kept both your kidneys? One is sufficient. We consider the other one to be savings. No benefit until you have realised its value and spent the money on essentials."

p-o-p

[seriousz]

I face the same concern - working in what's left of the construction industry I know my job is at severe risk and my accumulated would-be deposit would prevent me getting any benefits. They do of course check your bank statements, and require details of any shareholdings etc; but they have no way of knowing how many accounts you have - your best hope is to keep your current account 'clean' - i.e. no trace of a transfer to a savings account. Subterfuge is essential.

[Guest Steve Cook]

The DWP is likely to have a much enlarged customer base soon. It will also have a much reduced budget. Savings and investments could take on a new meaning.

"Have you kept both your kidneys? One is sufficient. We consider the other one to be savings. No benefit until you have realised its value and spent the money on essentials."

p-o-p

yes...this will come in due course. Well, ok, not the specific thing with the kidneys....

But you know what I mean...

[VeryMeanReversion]

Er, no. You could deposit £100K at 5.5% very easily right now and get £5,500pa for it; annuity rates are higher than that, about 7.5% for a 65yo male.

As for "hiding" assets, you could make a loan to a trusted friend or relative and tell them they can roll-up the interest until repayment time and then call it back in at a time when you're not on means-tested benefits. If you wanted to spend some cash while on benefits you could borrow it from the same friend, using your loan to them as collateral.

In fact two people on benefits could probably have a merry old dance loaning money backwards and forwards.

pension 100K 3% annuity => 3k a year (joint life escalating, similar to a savings account where if one pops it, the other gets it). (last time I looked, been while though)

but it "only" takes 60K to get a 100K pension.

pretty much the same as 60K 5.5% interest -> £3300.

Rough figures but the point is that it takes serious saving to make up the difference between basic pension and min guarantee. Putting any weatlh into classes not counted as assets is worthwhile.

VMR.

[TeddyBear]

Remember a thread, not sure where, about a recently unemployed woman who had some 8k sitting in a bank account but it was earmarked for very expensive service charges coming up on her flat, she had the letter to prove that these charges were going to be due in the next year. Yet the DWP said this must be counted as savings and reduced her benefit. Must admit though that if such cases were let through the system would be even more open to fraud so it's hard to come up with alternatives. I've wondered about offset mortgages myself, if they'd pick that one up.

[wickywackywoo]

Welcome to the "system". I ran into this one when I claimed unemployment a few years ago. I asked if I would get more benefits if I used my STR fund to buy some Ferraris to minimise my official savings. They said yes, but we don't like you doing that.

Make sure your gold is just your "antique coin collection" or onlyjewellery.

In my twilight years, my plan is to have officially no savings (i.e. gold and non-measured assets). This bumps up your state pension from around 5k to 8k (min guaranteed). That 3K extra income would take the best part of 100k in a pension fund to generate.

VMR.

My plan as well. No point trying to be honest and remain within the system. It's unfair and unreasonable. Better to present yourself as a peasant with nothing and watch all the freebies roll in.

The problem is, hiding your dosh isn't that easy if you don't want to put it all into physical gold.

[christhpc]

yep. this is the way to go

Deny the existence of the money.

If, after inspecting your historical accounts/bank statements, the benefits agency questions you with regards to where the money has gone, you need to say you pissed it up againts the wall or wasted it on the gee gees etc.

A further measure you could take is to feign depression and <snip>

You are Gordon Brown and I claim my £5.

[wickywackywoo]

if you're an IT contractor you can't claim benefits when you are sittting on the bench. I did try claiming when I switched from perm to contract but they said I was paid too much . Anyhow I'm based in swizterland now so out of the system

You can claim benefits the same as anybody else providing you don't have over the cutoff points in savings. They don't like IT contractors because they're a bunch of lefties, and will try and put you off. You just need to persist and appeal if necessary.