Us Bailout Plan Being Torn To Shreds

[jonpo]

Ah ha! The slight problem is that Loyds is probably very poorly capitalised itself and buying HBOS probably just made it worse. If I was S&P I'd be itching to do a ratings review on Lloyds.

yep id be looking to gett out of banks completly.... neither a lender nor a borrower be you know ...

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Lloyds shares went down nearly 18% immediately after Lloyds announced it had saved HBOS from going under. So there.

Edited September 20, 2008 by gruffydd

[Injin]

So Paulson is explicitly aiming to increase real estate prices.

They have bcaked the dollar and pound with real estate, maybe?

[_w_]

Read Schiff -

Paulson Goes All In

You're going to love this one. I thought Peter Schiff was the best but he's got competition. Don't know who the speaker is but he is priceless. Shame about the VI ads added to the piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnfeBKa4FjE

[dancer7]

No expert knowledge is required here...merely commonsense. From near meltdown to stability in the blink of an eye is not feasible...it is a confidence trick on a gigantic scale. It might just buy a bit of time simply because so many people will be taken in, but the end result is a certainty.

[OnlyMe]

You're going to love this one. I thought Peter Schiff was the best but he's got competition. Don't know who the speaker is but he is priceless. Shame about the VI ads added to the piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnfeBKa4FjE

Max Keiser - he was on a great interview a long time ago on France 24 - it is on Youtube somewhere.

Found it.

Back from August 2007.

Part 1

Part 2 - "A game of musical chairs with no chairs"

Part 3

Part 4

Edited September 20, 2008 by OnlyMe

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Just read that Lloyds is facing a possible downgrading by credit ratings agencies next week.

B&B has been downgraded to just one notch above junk status.

Yeeeehaaaa

Edited September 20, 2008 by gruffydd

[_w_]

Yeeeehaaaa

Just had this flash vision from the Dr Strangelove scene. Thanks for the laugh

[_w_]

Max Keiser - he was on a great interview a long time ago on France 24 - it is on Youtube somewhere.

Found it.

Back from August 2007.

Part 1

Part 2 - "A game of musical chairs with no chairs"

Thanks for the links, can't wait to watch.

[ReggiePerrin]

I don't see a problem here. The banks had/have no idea how MBS, CDS, etc worked, but they bought into them; so why should the banks worry about the bailout, and whether it will work or not? I think we're over analysing things, we should keep things simple and stop letting the facts get in the way of an opportunity to make some money ... it's all about confidence

[OnlyMe]

Thanks for the links, can't wait to watch.

Some of the best videos you'll ever see on the whole situation. Anybody who has not seen them before will find them quite enlightening when you look at what just happened this week and compare them to the output of the rest of the media at the time.

[R K]

The LloydsHbos merger was a good move, its not cost taxpayers anything and raising money will be less of an issue for the new entity. I'm moving money into Lloyds now and out of Santander owned banks.

You have no idea how much Lloyds has swapped with the BOE, or how much of HBOS debt it will swap now the SLS has been extended until January.

[OnlyMe]

His point about Growth is absolute truth. Thats why all the BOE guff about growth is such a pack of lies.

[Converted Lurker]

great thread guys, interesting bit from Schiff on 321gold, nothing we didn't know already but good all the same:

"When the U.S. government owns all mortgages, the real estate market will be completely subject to political, rather than financial, concerns. Will foreclosures be outlawed? Will loan term easements and principal reductions become standard campaign issues?

While it is dizzying to predict how this plan will be implemented, it is fairly simple to foresee the macroeconomic consequences. The U.S. dollar will be shattered beyond repair. The government simply has no means to make good on the trillions of new liabilities. Interestingly, while both Paulson and President Bush acknowledge that the plan will put "significant amounts of taxpayer dollars on the line," they did not mention any tax increases. Given the politics, no such move is forthcoming. The printing press is their only solution."

[Converted Lurker]

Ah ha! The slight problem is that Loyds is probably very poorly capitalised itself and buying HBOS probably just made it worse. If I was S&P I'd be itching to do a ratings review on Lloyds.

and Lloyds has to raise a £bill to finally fund this acquisition apparently, another instance of devil in the detail taking a while to bleed into the media once the 'hurrahs' have stopped...

[cht]

and Lloyds has to raise a £bill to finally fund this acquisition apparently, another instance of devil in the detail taking a while to bleed into the media once the 'hurrahs' have stopped...

I personally think that Brown and Balls will do whatever it takes to make things look fine and dandy, whilst the labour conference tears itself apart next week.

The week after though, well times running out and the dam will burst. IMO of course.

[domo]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080920/financial_meltdown.html

Rescue plan seeks $700B to buy bad mortgages

In a session with House Democrats, they described a plan where the government would in essence set up reverse auctions, putting up money for a class of distressed assets -- such as loans that are delinquent but not in default -- and financial institutions would compete for how little they would accept for the investments, said Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif., who participated in the conference call.

Meh, this is starting to look more like another liquidity scheme

FAIL

edit, the Feds are deflating the value of the debt themselves by operating the scheme this way, that lost value CANNOT be recovered.

Edited September 20, 2008 by domo

[Realistbear]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

William Poole, who retired in March as president of the St. Louis Fed, said he's ``skeptical on all counts.''

``I'm afraid that we've got a grand idea that when we start to actually write it down on paper, how it's going to work, we're going to find one stumbling block after another,'' Poole, 71, a Bloomberg contributor, said in an interview with Bloomberg Television.

``I certainly don't think this is the taxpayers' problem,'' said Meltzer, 80, a professor of political economy at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. ``This is not a place exactly with a great big surplus that can afford to do these things. This is social democracy at its worst.''

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/default.stm

Page last updated at 14:21 GMT, Saturday, 20 September 2008 15:21 UK

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Milton Friedman recalled from the dead

Sir Giles Pratt-Hornby, Chaiman of the Guild's Investment Bank, is reported to have invited several high profile bankers to a Friday night seance conducted by renowned medium Gladys Philpott. After some minutes passed the voice of someone claiming to be Milton Friedman was heard saying "there ain't no free lunch." Sir Giles confirmed that Gladys had no idea who Friedman was and was not making the message up. One of the guests present suggested that t.../

[Laura]

You have no idea how much Lloyds has swapped with the BOE, or how much of HBOS debt it will swap now the SLS has been extended until January.

Or how many pointless jobs in Scotland have been preserved (on a promise)

like Halifax no longer exists

[_w_]

Some of the best videos you'll ever see on the whole situation. Anybody who has not seen them before will find them quite enlightening when you look at what just happened this week and compare them to the output of the rest of the media at the time.

Yes! Really good. He really gets started in part two. The faces of the anchor and the other guests betrays a mix of fear and incomprehension, couldn't help laughing. He might as well have been on another planet.

Same league as Schiff and Faber. Thanks for the link.

[Wad]

I don't see a problem here. The banks had/have no idea how MBS, CDS, etc worked, but they bought into them; so why should the banks worry about the bailout, and whether it will work or not? I think we're over analysing things, we should keep things simple and stop letting the facts get in the way of an opportunity to make some money ... it's all about confidence

You are dead right there. An old stockbroker of my acquaintence once said "Never let the facts get in the way of the story". He was right - it just took me 20 years to realise!

[Guest Mr Parry]

As people think about this plan over the weekend they will come to the conclusion its a load of ******** and the markets

will start crashing on Monday. Then what?

Back to the land.

[grasshopper]

and Lloyds has to raise a £bill to finally fund this acquisition apparently, another instance of devil in the detail taking a while to bleed into the media once the 'hurrahs' have stopped...

Is this in addition to the 767 million it raised on Friday's successful share sale?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/newIssuesNew...J60183220080919

[Bloo Loo]

Can anyone actually explain why this won't work?

because there are two sides to the deal, one expert at the art of deception and backstabbing, the other side are politicians.

[Wad]

Back to the land.

Puts me in mind of these famous lines from From Gone with The Wind when all seems lost:

Scarlett: As God is my witness, as God is my witness they're not going to lick me. I'm going to live through this and when it's all over, I'll never be hungry again. No, nor any of my folk. If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill. As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again.

[last lines]

Scarlett: Tara! Home. I'll go home. And I'll think of some way to get him back. After all... tomorrow is another day.

...or if you prefer The Grapes of Wrath here is something a bit more on bankers:

They breathe profits; they eat the interest on money. If they don't get it, they die the way you die without air, without side-meat. [referring to the banks]

Chapter 5

The bank is something more than men, I tell you. It's the monster. Men made it, but they can't control it.

Chapter 5

It ain't that big. The whole United States ain't that big. It ain't that big. It ain't big enough. There ain't room enough for you an' me, for your kind an' my kind, for rich and poor together all in one country, for thieves and honest men. For hunger and fat.

Chapter 12