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Optimistic Pricing In Edinburgh


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£300 to £350 pcm tends to be the going rate for single rooms for student flats (4-6 bedroom) in the southside area. That's generally students going to Edinburgh University. You can get cheaper but there's usually a reason if it's less than £250. That flat is in prime student land.

Students in flats which have not been mutilated usually get much larger rooms, though, especially the one who gets the living room with the bay window.

I wonder whether the numbers add up nowadays, either for this mutilated flat or for an unaltered one. How much are the cheapest BTL mortgages now, and what kinds of deposits do landlords tend to put down?

Let’s say you can get a two-bedroom tenement flat for 250K (which is the average rate for Marchmont/Bruntsfield according to the ESPC). Put down 25% deposit, borrow £187,500 over 25 years at 5%. Repayments would be around £1,095 per month (capital and interest), so the rent from three students would in fact just about cover it, ignoring agents’ fees (which can be substantial), repairs, voids and tax (20% or 40%, depending on income). I suppose the additional rent from the Festival month would bump up the income a fair bit. So the sums are marginal, at best, for a three-person HMO in a two-bedroom flat.

I can see why letting a property as a student HMO is so attractive, though. The going rate for rent of a regular flat without an HMO licence is only £800 per month, and non-student tenants would most likely be there all year, so it wouldn’t be possible to get Festival tenants in during August.

As for the monster at 1 Warrender Park Crescent, if you could get a group of seven to rent it at £350 pcm each, the total rental income would be £2,450 pcm. Again, assuming a 75% BTL mortgage at 5%, based on the asking price of £435,000, the monthly repayments would be around £1,905, so in this case the rental income (again ignoring fees, repairs, voids and tax) more than covers the mortgage. I would imagine that the risks inherent in letting out a flat as a seven-person HMO would be greater, though. Besides, who has £108,750 sitting around as a deposit for buying a stduent flat? In 2007, perhaps (except that then they would have done it on a 100% interest-only mortgage), but it looks a lot less likely now.

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4,500 per sq metres.

And people wonder why I always go on about Edinburghs prices, whilst not quite up to London prices, being completely ******ing mental

ESPC

And another next door. 395k but slightly smaller. More pics too.

395k

3761 Per M2

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How do developers come up with their prices? Last year the west end would have been 2500-3000 psqm, now more like 2300-2800. For new developments its more like think of a number and double it. Odder still people do buy them, skewing the average as they do so. Strange.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Students in flats which have not been mutilated usually get much larger rooms, though, especially the one who gets the living room with the bay window.

I wonder whether the numbers add up nowadays, either for this mutilated flat or for an unaltered one. How much are the cheapest BTL mortgages now, and what kinds of deposits do landlords tend to put down?

Those numbers chime with what seems to be the case to me. It does seem like an incredibly risky step to take but there is still a belief out there that property values will outstrip pretty much everything else.

Completely anecdotally. My wife is setting up a new business and we had a chat with a potential builder for the shop-fit. Fairly unremarkable chap until we suddenly found out that he owned the best part of 10 properties. As soon as he mentioned them it was like watching an alcoholic taking a drink. His face flushed and he wanted to do nothing else but talk about them and how he wanted more; the love and attention he paid to them; the brilliance of having. Listening to him it was clear that he lived and breathed this stuff 24/7. He didn't have a life, he was addicted to his properties.

I suspect a lot of talk on this board sometimes forgets that people are not rational income maximisers. I wouldn't mind betting that, like an addict, this builder ends up being consumed by his addiction but that there'll always be more addicts out there and enough finance from the pushers to keep them coming through the door. It was depressing and scary at the same time. Essentially what this person was doing was feeding his property habit by pushing every last penny of money he could make from (actually pretty good) construction skills. What's more he was massively undercutting the competition just to ensure he had money coming in. (For those interested, we didn't hire him. The property we were looking at wasn't right and when we finally found what we wanted a few months later we went with someone else.)

It seems to me that a rational, hard-nosed approached to property investing is more the exception than the rule.

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Those numbers chime with what seems to be the case to me. It does seem like an incredibly risky step to take but there is still a belief out there that property values will outstrip pretty much everything else.

Completely anecdotally. My wife is setting up a new business and we had a chat with a potential builder for the shop-fit. Fairly unremarkable chap until we suddenly found out that he owned the best part of 10 properties. As soon as he mentioned them it was like watching an alcoholic taking a drink. His face flushed and he wanted to do nothing else but talk about them and how he wanted more; the love and attention he paid to them; the brilliance of having. Listening to him it was clear that he lived and breathed this stuff 24/7. He didn't have a life, he was addicted to his properties.

I suspect a lot of talk on this board sometimes forgets that people are not rational income maximisers. I wouldn't mind betting that, like an addict, this builder ends up being consumed by his addiction but that there'll always be more addicts out there and enough finance from the pushers to keep them coming through the door. It was depressing and scary at the same time. Essentially what this person was doing was feeding his property habit by pushing every last penny of money he could make from (actually pretty good) construction skills. What's more he was massively undercutting the competition just to ensure he had money coming in. (For those interested, we didn't hire him. The property we were looking at wasn't right and when we finally found what we wanted a few months later we went with someone else.)

It seems to me that a rational, hard-nosed approached to property investing is more the exception than the rule.

I find it seems to be similar to otherwise smart financial literate people once they buy into some sort of sporting team. Any common sense or logic just gets throwan out the window. Same seems to go with property.

'You cannot go wrong with proeprty'

That seems to be the entire business plan for many so called 'investors'.

Now though all the ones on the edge are seeing it is not so much of a one way street. There will always be people like that. However the numbers interested have collapsed.

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This town house around the corner from us in Stockbridge had to be refurbished after a fire. It went on the market initially for £850,000. I laughed and thought that I'd keep an eye on it to see what happened. A couple of weeks ago it was down to offers over £750,000 and now it's fallen below £700k.

Out of curiosity I looked up this property on Zoopla. It sold for £810k in 2006. It's still not budging at OO £695k today.

I have heard that it used to belong to a Hearts player but £23,000 per year for the past five years is still a lot of cash to be losing for anybody.

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Please, Mister, help! Someone’s cut a chunk out of my bedroom and put a kitchenette in it!

£3,680 per square metre … it’s right at the bottom of the New Town, on the way to Stockbridge. I don’t know the area well enough to know whether that is a reasonable price, but what a horrible conversion they’ve made.

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  • 3 months later...

Out of curiosity I looked up this property on Zoopla. It sold for £810k in 2006. It's still not budging at OO £695k today.

I have heard that it used to belong to a Hearts player but £23,000 per year for the past five years is still a lot of cash to be losing for anybody.

The property sold a couple of months ago and the details have now made it on to Zoopla: it went for £675k

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  • 3 months later...

6/1 Warrender Park Terrace

£375K for 110.46 m² = £3,395/m², so overpriced, even by local standards, by about 13%. Also it has a utility room in place of a boxroom – first time I’ve ever seen that particular combination!

Just catching up with recent sale prices … this one eventually went for £365,000 on 14 March 2012. £3,304 per square metre!

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Here’s a flat which has been horrendously butchered internally. How on earth do people get planning permission for this kind of thing?

40 (2F1) Gillespie Crescent

However, the fact that it supposedly has five ‘bedrooms’ hasn’t washed with the surveyor on this occasion, as the asking price is OO £265,000, or £2,230 per square metre, which is quite reasonable for the area.

Meanwhile the abomination on Cumin Place has now had its price cut to £390,000, despite a Home Report valuation of half a million. If you look using Property Bee, it’s good to see the seller having a laugh on 16 July, when they increased the price from £400K to £425K before dropping it to £390K a month later.

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Meanwhile the abomination on Cumin Place has now had its price cut to £390,000, despite a Home Report valuation of half a million. If you look using Property Bee, it’s good to see the seller having a laugh on 16 July, when they increased the price from £400K to £425K before dropping it to £390K a month later.

That still hasn't been snapped up? The cash-rich international buyers can't be paying attention.

Those bedrooms don't look terribly spacious, mind you...

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The decking takes up a fair proportion of the floor plan. The actual house is pretty small - and for the price, I suspect pretty poor value for money, though I'm not familiar with the area. Hideously over valued when it went on the market - or just hard to value because it's so unusual?

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Further investigation reveals that the house at 1a Cumin Place was formerly the garage on the left hand side of this Streetview image:

http://goo.gl/maps/04ZXx

1z2oj8i.png

Googling for "1 Cumin Place" conversion will take you to the planning documents.

The main house at 1 Cumin Place appears to have sold for £380,000 in October 2010 (some time after planning permission was granted for the conversion, in 2007, so maybe the lucky buyer didn't get the garage as well), so paying £390,000 for the garage doesn't seem like too much of a bargain. Looks like the garage first went on the market at £485,000 in March this year (http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=174246&st=30). Just amazing.

If anyone fancies a test-drive, you can rent it for only £150 a night, although you have to stay for at least 3 nights.

http://edinburghluxuryaccommodation.com/

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  • 6 months later...

I thought I’d just resurrect this ancient thread in this moribund forum, with the news that this crappy newbuild flat costs £850,000. I can’t be bothered to work out how many square metres it is, but it looks like under 100, thus probably putting this price close to a pounds-per-square-metre record for Edinburgh.

Incidentally, it looks like the converted garage at 1a Cumin Place sold for £387,000 in the end. The funny money in Edinburgh certainly has not dried up.

Further investigation reveals that the house at 1a Cumin Place was formerly the garage on the left hand side of this Streetview image:

http://goo.gl/maps/04ZXx

Googling for "1 Cumin Place" conversion will take you to the planning documents.

The main house at 1 Cumin Place appears to have sold for £380,000 in October 2010 (some time after planning permission was granted for the conversion, in 2007, so maybe the lucky buyer didn't get the garage as well), so paying £390,000 for the garage doesn't seem like too much of a bargain. Looks like the garage first went on the market at £485,000 in March this year (http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=174246&st=30). Just amazing.

If anyone fancies a test-drive, you can rent it for only £150 a night, although you have to stay for at least 3 nights.

http://edinburghluxuryaccommodation.com/

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Here’s a flat which has been horrendously butchered internally. How on earth do people get planning permission for this kind of thing?

40 (2F1) Gillespie Crescent

However, the fact that it supposedly has five ‘bedrooms’ hasn’t washed with the surveyor on this occasion, as the asking price is OO £265,000, or £2,230 per square metre, which is quite reasonable for the area.

It looks like the Gillespie Crescent flat sold for £277K. Let’s hope the new owner has knocked down some plasterboard walls and returned it to its proper layout, although they’ve probably just shoved six students into it instead and are raking in £1,500 per month rent. (The link no longer works, but if I remember rightly, this was one of those flats in which internal walls had been put in to divide large double bedrooms up into two long, narrow ones.)

That flat previously sold for £345K in Oct 2007 – ouch!

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I thought I’d just resurrect this ancient thread in this moribund forum, with the news that this crappy newbuild flat costs £850,000. I can’t be bothered to work out how many square metres it is, but it looks like under 100, thus probably putting this price close to a pounds-per-square-metre record for Edinburgh.

Wow.

That is very crappy.

I hate flats, but some of the pricey London ones are very nicely done.

That however looks like generic Barratt Home laminate and Ikea kitchen units.

Not even marble in the bathroom.

Are they trying to flog this to Chinese too?

The houses are utter garbage also

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-34839529.html

No garden. You might as well be in a local authority block.

Same road:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=33893234&sale=113763&country=scotland

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  • 4 months later...

Wow.

That is very crappy.

I hate flats, but some of the pricey London ones are very nicely done.

That however looks like generic Barratt Home laminate and Ikea kitchen units.

Not even marble in the bathroom.

Are they trying to flog this to Chinese too?

The houses are utter garbage also

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/new-homes-for-sale/property-34839529.html

No garden. You might as well be in a local authority block.

Same road:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=33893234&sale=113763&country=scotland

An E. Ho and S. Ho coughed up 800k for what I assume was the penthouse. Ho Ho.

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  • 3 weeks later...

23a Morningside Place, Morningside EDINBURGH, EH10 5ES

£4.2k per meter.

Home report says 95m^2+garden. Plans on the council site show the buyer gets the pavement to front door strip off the original house and some behind, not the full depth of the plot which retains garden behind.

Offers over 420k.

Last sale - Dec 2012 for 280k. Was extended after, with kitchen/diner and shower room which looks about 30m^2 more to an existing 60m^2. So uplift on floor area alone would be 364k which itself would be £3.8K per m^2.

Objections were raised to the extension - so pee'd off NIMBY's as neighbours.

Seems a bit mental on price, but maybe not cloud cuckoo land going by 2012 price - just not giving away.... yet.

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  • 4 weeks later...

With all the talk of house price rises lol i looked at east lothian and the so called bubble i found this one http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38576209.html

yip HPI lol sold for 665k 2005 booming on the market for a year now started at offers over 595 now offers over 545 no cues at the door.

but the Daily mail says its booming lol tell that to these sellers drip drip drip

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With all the talk of house price rises lol i looked at east lothian and the so called bubble i found this one http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38576209.html

yip HPI lol sold for 665k 2005 booming on the market for a year now started at offers over 595 now offers over 545 no cues at the door.

but the Daily mail says its booming lol tell that to these sellers drip drip drip

The paid £39950 in 2009 - not realised they are trapped yet.

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  • 444 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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