Optimistic Pricing In Edinburgh

[fflump]

Mighty big drop. Then again they were wanting almost 7,000 per sq metre for a house in Edinburgh.

Hmmm. Check your maths ccc-you're a bit out!!

FWIW they were asking £4600 per square metre.

They are now asking £3600 per square metre

As already discussed that is Central London (Chelsea etc.) money.

Anyone wanting that in Edinburgh is off their ******ing head.

No it is not Chelsea money. Average price in the London Borough of Kensington and Chelsea is around £15000 per square metre.

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/property/article7033505.ece

So, just to recap-it started off 3-times cheaper than average Chelsea/Kensington prices, and is now over 4 times cheaper than average Chelsea/Kensington prices.

Can you maybe stop this mild obsession with Edinburgh prices being the same as prime central London ccc-it is more than a little absurd.

[ccc]

Hmmm. Check your maths ccc-you're a bit out!!

FWIW they were asking £4600 per square metre.

They are now asking £3600 per square metre

No it is not Chelsea money. Average price in the London Borough of Kensington and Chelsea is around £15000 per square metre.

http://property.time...icle7033505.ece

So, just to recap-it started off 3-times cheaper than average Chelsea/Kensington prices, and is now over 4 times cheaper than average Chelsea/Kensington prices.

Can you maybe stop this mild obsession with Edinburgh prices being the same as prime central London ccc-it is more than a little absurd.

Please read what I said:

The fact we can even find one place that is more expensive than Chelseas' Kings Road in Edinburgh ? Pretty incredible.

Yes i worked the last one out wrong - it is still £4600 per sq metre. A pretty high number.

I am not saying Edinburgh prices are the same as prime central London. I am saying you can find SOME Edinburgh prices for the same price as SOME prime Central London prices. And we already have examples if you want to get into the details. Understand..

And this state of affairs is what I would class as 'absurd'.

We already have a poky little flat in Edinburgh priced at over £7000 per metre squared. If you would like me to go and find another example of a place in central London that is a similar or lower price to prove my point then I will later. Fire away.

[fflump]

Can we not just leave the whole London thing and discuss Edinburgh?

It's been done to death, all views have been aired and I am very bored of it.

[ccc]

http://www.foxtons.co.uk/property-for-sale-in-chelsea/chpk0463829/large_floorplan

~£4600 per sq M

http://www.foxtons.co.uk/property-for-sale-in-south-kensington/myfr0140606/large_floorplan

~£7200 per sq M

There you go. Now I await you telling me these are not right int he midle of Chelsea. I await you telling me one is in an ex council block. I await you telling me that this is actually sort of on the edge of whatever.

However the fact remains. Some residential per Sq ft prices in Edinburgh are comparable to some residential per sq ft prices in Central London. End of story.

I know on average these places in London have far higher per sq ft prices. That was not the point. The fact you can even compare the odd place in Edinburgh to the odd place in Central London shows just how mental some property asking prices in Edinburgh really are.

Would you not agree with that ?

[ccc]

Can we not just leave the whole London thing and discuss Edinburgh?

It's been done to death, all views have been aired and I am very bored of it.

The title of this thread is 'Optimistic pricing in Edinburgh'....

Surely comparing what people are asking for in Edinburgh to what people are asking for in London is pretty relevant ?

I will do a few comparing it to New York or Sydney as well if you fancy. All just as relevant to be fair.

Pretty good way of showing just how 'optimistic' some pricing is IMO. Rather than just simply saying "That is ridiculous at xxxx per square metre'.

Do you not think comparing these prices to one of the most expensive known places on Earth is pretty useful ? I do.

If anyone else reading this thread would like to input I would be intrested to hear. Personally if I was reading this I would find the comparisions very useful. Maybe nobody else does. Fair enough if true.

I am all ears !!

[fflump]

However the fact remains. Some residential per Sq ft prices in Edinburgh are comparable to some residential per sq ft prices in Central London. End of story.

I know on average these places in London have far higher per sq ft prices. That was not the point. The fact you can even compare the odd place in Edinburgh to the odd place in Central London shows just how mental some property asking prices in Edinburgh really are.

Would you not agree with that ?

Yes I agree "Some residential per Sq ft prices in Edinburgh are comparable to some residential per sq ft prices in Central London"

But this has always been the case-1995, 2000, 2005, 2010 you could pick examples where the cheaper end of the distribution curve in london overlaps with the upper end of the distribution curve in Edinburgh. Prices in Edinburgh have risen along with those in London, not faster. The % difference between Edinburgh and London has not changed appreciably over the years so there is nothing special about 2010 that enables you to pluck the examples that you keep plucking. You could have done it 10 yrs ago. You'll be able to do it in 10 yrs time. Therefore it doesn't tell you much about the Edinburgh market.

[ccc]

Yes I agree "Some residential per Sq ft prices in Edinburgh are comparable to some residential per sq ft prices in Central London"

But this has always been the case-1995, 2000, 2005, 2010 you could pick examples where the cheaper end of the distribution curve in london overlaps with the upper end of the distribution curve in Edinburgh. Prices in Edinburgh have risen along with those in London, not faster. The % difference between Edinburgh and London has not changed appreciably over the years so there is nothing special about 2010 that enables you to pluck the examples that you keep plucking. You could have done it 10 yrs ago. You'll be able to do it in 10 yrs time. Therefore it doesn't tell you much about the Edinburgh market.

Ok fair enough. Although I do think it does tell you something about the Edinburgh market. Many people are delusional !!

I doubt any of these 'overlappers' ever sell for what they want. If it happens must be a rare occurance. What is it that makes these people put these asking prices on places ? Estate agent chat, just plucking the number out of their heads ?

They never seem to do it on the down side though - so greed must play a part.

[ccc]

We could have a winner. One bed Gorgie flat - on Gorgie Road itself. Looks pleasant enough. Large rooms and it does have a separate kitchen unlike many of the other one bedders in the area. However it is still a one bed flat on Gorgie Road.

FP £159,950

**£5,000 BELOW HOME REPORT VALUATION**

Surely this is some sort of joke ?!

PS - I make that ~£2460 per sq Metre. That sounds a lot for Gorgie !!

Edited October 26, 2010 by ccc

[Mancghirl]

We could have a winner. One bed Gorgie flat - on Gorgie Road itself. Looks pleasant enough. Large rooms and it does have a separate kitchen unlike many of the other one bedders in the area. However it is still a one bed flat on Gorgie Road.

FP £159,950

**£5,000 BELOW HOME REPORT VALUATION**

Surely this is some sort of joke ?!

PS - I make that ~£2460 per sq Metre. That sounds a lot for Gorgie !!

Come on now, ccc. its got a boxroom/study.

On the upside, my ESPC search has unveiled my first sub 80k one bedder in a reasonable street, down to 76k

Balfour St flat

Also, I found this lovely little crashtastic recent build

3 bedder offers around140k

Now, how much did the originally mug canny investor pay?

2/8 East Pilton Farm Avenue,

Edinburgh,

EH5 2GA £202,000

Application No: 07MID04329

Title No: MID65583

Application Type: DW

Deed Codes: 11 20 1 Application Date

19-Jan-2007

Oh dear.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Mancghirl

[fflump]

On the upside, my ESPC search has unveiled my first sub 80k one bedder in a reasonable street, down to 76k

Balfour St flat

But is that actually much cheaper in £ per sq metre than ccc's £160k rip-off example?

[ccc]

Come on now, ccc. its got a boxroom/study.

On the upside, my ESPC search has unveiled my first sub 80k one bedder in a reasonable street, down to 76k

Balfour St flat

Also, I found this lovely little crashtastic recent build

3 bedder offers around140k

Now, how much did the originally mug canny investor pay?

2/8 East Pilton Farm Avenue,

Edinburgh,

EH5 2GA £202,000

Application No: 07MID04329

Title No: MID65583

Application Type: DW

Deed Codes: 11 20 1 Application Date

19-Jan-2007

Oh dear.

But is that actually much cheaper in £ per sq metre than ccc's £160k rip-off example?

Now that is interesting. Thanks for introducing me to the, in hindsight, blatantly obvious World of value for money when it comes to sq m !!

They actually are both about the same price per sq metre. However one is seen as decent value and one is seen as a complete joke.

Many other countires use the Sq m when pricing as standard don't they ?

[fflump]

Now that is interesting. Thanks for introducing me to the, in hindsight, blatantly obvious World of value for money when it comes to sq m !!

They actually are both about the same price per sq metre. However one is seen as decent value and one is seen as a complete joke.

Many other countires use the Sq m when pricing as standard don't they ?

Most european countries make the square metrage very clear. Indeed, to be fair this is also quite common in new build flats in the UK. However, our european cousins are not robots-awkward layouts etc attract lower values. The £160k e.g. you gave is especially expensive as its only a 1-bed and despite being big, it would be hard to reconfigure to a 2-bed. Also, for £160k you can get a similar 1-bed in Morningside.

I think with the increased use of floor plans in schedules and also with HRs, people are more used to looking at floor space these days.

I have mentioned more than once on this forum that the standard (i.e. very small) 1-bed Gorgie flats are incredibly poor value and in £ per sq metre rival much more expensive areas. 2-bed flats in Marchmontare around 95 square metres and cost around £275k give or take.

A 35 square metre 1-bed flat in gorgie, of which there are many, were selling at over £100k (even £110-120k) at peak prices which is MORE per sq metre than Marchmont.

[ccc]

Was having a random look on ESPC and came across this.

Bit surprised about the price until I realised what it actually was. 'Mews flat'.

I think the trade descriptions act may have something to say about that !!

Mews 'flat'

[alchemilla]

Was having a random look on ESPC and came across this.

Bit surprised about the price until I realised what it actually was. 'Mews flat'.

I think the trade descriptions act may have something to say about that !!

Mews 'flat'

After all this time I shouldn't be surprised but I am genuinely gobsmacked. It's a garage.

[adamxxx]

After all this time I shouldn't be surprised but I am genuinely gobsmacked. It's a garage.

But that's what mews are-garages (originally stables) with living quarters above. I don't see what the fuss is about apart from the fact it should be called a mews studioflat

[ccc]

After all this time I shouldn't be surprised but I am genuinely gobsmacked. It's a garage.

Yep. The sales patter is brilliant.

"Magdala Mews is set around a delightful cobbled courtyard which provides parking for residents of the mews."

Well no they can just park in their own garages can't they..ah wait a second...

"The front doors of the apartment open fully allowing for alfresco dining and entertaining directly in front of the property"

If you happen to be a Ford Cortina and your guests are Mrs Suzuki Vitara and Mrs Vauxhall Corsa.

"The room adequately allows for specific living and sleeping areas."

If you want to live in a garage.

"The area directly to the front of the property, which forms part of the mews courtyard, can be used for alfresco seating or dining."

Or for changing your oil or perhaps even polishing your alloy wheels.

"Parking in Magdala Mews is by way of a residents parking permit."

Or you could just park in your own garage...sorry......living room.

But that's what mews are-garages (originally stables) with living quarters above. I don't see what the fuss is about apart from the fact it should be called a mews studioflat

The living quarters, as you say, are above the area in question. The area in question is for cars, and was previously for horses.

What next ? This is in the centre of Edinburgh. This is a popular place to stay. However putting a kitchen and a toilet in your garage and trying to sell it as a pied-a-terre ?!

Edited November 15, 2010 by ccc

[adamxxx]

The living quarters, as you say, are above the area in question. The area in question is for cars, and was previously for horses.

What next ? This is in the centre of Edinburgh. This is a popular place to stay. However putting a kitchen and a toilet in your garage and trying to sell it as a pied-a-terre ?!

Plenty of mews have been converted over the years so that the stable/garage areas are now living accomm-even in edinburgh (Thirlestaine lane?). May not be your cup of tea (or mine) but they clearly have planning for change of use and it is clearly a mews flat so I am puzzled as to why you think it is mis-described.

[ccc]

Plenty of mews have been converted over the years so that the stable/garage areas are now living accomm-even in edinburgh (Thirlestaine lane?). May not be your cup of tea (or mine) but they clearly have planning for change of use and it is clearly a mews flat so I am puzzled as to why you think it is mis-described.

Because it is clearly a garage and not a 'main door apartment'.

I suppose it is all down to a person's opinion. However I know most people I know would literally laugh out loud if they were stood in front of that and told it was an 'apartment'.

Most other conversions I have seen at least take the garage door off and pretend it isn't a garage....

Although I suppose you could say at least this lot are being honest to a point.

Edited November 15, 2010 by ccc

[Radge]

If you happen to be a Ford Cortina and your guests are Mrs Suzuki Vitara and Mrs Vauxhall Corsa.

Hey ccc, this is the west end! Range Rover, Mrs BMW X5 and Mrs Discovery surely!

Those doors don't exactly look draught proof to me. Have fun with the gas bill.

[ccc]

Hey ccc, this is the west end! Range Rover, Mrs BMW X5 and Mrs Discovery surely!

Those doors don't exactly look draught proof to me. Have fun with the gas bill.

Apologies. I am not in with the West End crew.

[EdinburghCrash]

Here's a candidate for optimistic pricing: 15/1 Trinity Crescent. I see it is listed at Offers Over £175,000. But it sold a year ago for £142,427! So somehow it has gone up in price by 25% even though the market as a whole has fallen in the past year. How is this possible?

I suppose it could have been a repossession the first time around, and thus a place that went quickly and cheaply. Or maybe they did a lot of repair/renovation work (although the description doesn't say anything about this, and the photos don't suggest a recent re-do).

link: http://www.espc.com/buying/293196.html

EC.

[EdinburghCrash]

Here's a candidate for optimistic pricing: 15/1 Trinity Crescent. I see it is listed at Offers Over £175,000. But it sold a year ago for £142,427! So somehow it has gone up in price by 25% even though the market as a whole has fallen in the past year. How is this possible?

I suppose it could have been a repossession the first time around, and thus a place that went quickly and cheaply. Or maybe they did a lot of repair/renovation work (although the description doesn't say anything about this, and the photos don't suggest a recent re-do).

link: http://www.espc.com/buying/293196.html

EC.

Actually, maybe that's much more common than I realised. Here's 5/4 Chancelot Grove advertised at Offers Over £195,000, even though it's last sale price in 2006, well into the bubble, was £123,800! Are they serious?

http://www.espc.com/buying/294418.html

EC.

[kenzdawg]

Quite frankly anything priced between 250 and 280k is optimistic, since it falls into that hinterland where there's a 5k stamp duty premium without a noticeable difference in quality. But there's no telling vendors that.

[EdinburghCrash]

Just trolling through espc.com with the propertybee plug in, and found this remarkable listing:

http://www.espc.com/buying/292858.html

It went on the market August 8 at offers around £160,000. September 19th they changed the listing to fixed price £155,000. Then the kicker is on October 9 they change the description to:

PRICE REDUCED TO £149,950 FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY FOR A QUICK SALE - PLEASE ACT FAST!

For a limited time only. I wouldn't have thought that made any sense -- if we don't want to buy this place at 149,950, why are we going to want to buy it if you raise the price again? But sure enough, that's just what they did, changing it to fixed price £160,000.

I guess one explanation is that the owner had some special, short-term motivation to sell. It didn't, so they raised it to a price at which it most definitely won't sell except to some fool.

EC.

[ccc]

Very strange logic.

Bought for 125k in 2006.

Next door sold for 160 at peak in 2007.

One other sold in 2008 for 150k

Asking for 160k is asking for peak prices. Mental. Not a chance. Would maybe have a chance at 140k.