Optimistic Pricing In Edinburgh

[lulu]

One bedroom flat in GORGIE

http://www.espc.com/buying/290444.html

£160k

This one is "Delightful", so must be worth it.

LIke the last one this is actually a two bedroom property. In fact it is almost three (dont forget the boxroom - and yes I have seen boxrooms marketed as extra bedrooms) so it is actually a bargain.....

In fact if they knock £50K off it I may express an interest.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

I wonder how Home Report surveyors make up their valuations. In Marchmont a ‘false three-bed’ flat – that is to say, a two-bedroom flat in which the boxroom has been turned into a windowless kitchen and the spacious kitchen/diner turned into a bedroom – has just come to the market with a Home Report valuation of 300K:

10/6 Spottiswoode Road

On 15 July 2008 a very similar flat, straight across the road, sold for 290K, having been bought as a slightly run-down two-bedder for 250K on 31 December 2007, modified and flipped. Since then, several genuine three-bedroom flats in the same area have sold for figures in the order of 300K, and a genuine three-bedder is larger by at least about 20%.

Similarly on one of the best roads in Bruntsfield another false three-bedder is for sale at 320K fixed price, having come down from 340K at the end of March:

6 (3F2) Bruntsfield Gardens

That one has a Home Report valuation of 340K! A genuine three-bedder on the same street sold for 327K (it was offers over 320K) on 21 May 2009.

There is now a lot of flats for sale around Marchmont and Bruntsfield, for all kinds of weird and wonderful prices. Some are selling, others are sticking, but the supply has increased to about three times what it was at the end of 2009. Maybe they will gradually sell during the summer, or maybe they will linger on the market and eventually the prices have to be reduced, just as happened during the summer of 2008 and lasted to the end of that year. We shall see …

[fflump]

I wish that properties were just marketed according to square footage. The UK obsession with bedroom number as a marketing tool is ridiculous.

[catmandu]

I wish that properties were just marketed according to square footage. The UK obsession with bedroom number as a marketing tool is ridiculous.

I wish it was done in square metres as these old numbers mean nothing to me. At least I know what a unit of bedroom is

[fflump]

This is a corker:

6 BF Warrender Park Crescent, Marchmont, Edinburgh, EH9 1DX

http://www.espc.com/buying/291451.html

3 bedroom basement flat in Marchmont.

Yours for £500,000 LMFAO

[Scunnered]

Yours for £500,000 LMFAO

It says offers around £500,000. There's nothing to stop you offering significantly more if you want to improve your chances.

Edit. I see that nethouseprices says that 6a Warrender Park Crescent ("The basement flat") sold for £300,000 in February 2010. Think it's the same one?

Edit again. Googling "6a Warrender Park Crescent" turns up a planning application received on the 4th of March 2010 for "Internal alterations, improvements, new kitchen, bathroom and ensuite". Clearly they must have managed to do £200,000 worth of work in 4 months.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Scunnered

[roblpm]

I wouldn't laugh this:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=109+greenbank+road+edinburgh&sll=51.479726,-0.292339&sspn=0.015609,0.028453&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=109+Greenbank+Rd,+Edinburgh+EH10+5RS,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.914365,-3.221698&spn=0,0.014226&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=55.914466,-3.221739&panoid=lUf82Da_dhx2kFPF4mM3mQ&cbp=12,68.16,,0,6.97

Has just gone for £580k!! It is extended but really is a ridiculous price when unextended ones still go for less than £400k (which is still ridiculous!).

109 Greenbank Road,

Edinburgh,

Midlothian,

EH10 5RS £580,585

Application No: 10MID09646

Title No: MID126230

Application Type: DW

Deed Codes: 11 Application Date

07-May-2010

Map (EH10 5RS)

Full Details

[Muswell Hillbilly]

It says offers around £500,000. There's nothing to stop you offering significantly more if you want to improve your chances.

Edit. I see that nethouseprices says that 6a Warrender Park Crescent ("The basement flat") sold for £300,000 in February 2010. Think it's the same one?

Edit again. Googling "6a Warrender Park Crescent" turns up a planning application received on the 4th of March 2010 for "Internal alterations, improvements, new kitchen, bathroom and ensuite". Clearly they must have managed to do £200,000 worth of work in 4 months.

As an avid Marchmont watcher, I have the original schedule saved from when this flat was up for sale last time. (Sadly it is too big to attach to this message.)

The flat came to the market in late June 2009 at offers arround £425,000, then dropped to £410,000 fixed price, before finally selling on 5 Feb 2010 for £330,000 (I assume your £300,000 was a typo). Looking at the schedule, I see it was in need of cosmetic renovations, as it had a grotty 1980s kitchen, hideous wallpaper and carpets, and ugly gas/electric fires in the fireplaces. It’ll be interesting to see the new schedule to see what wonderful £170,000 worth of improvements have been made!

I think the days when people paid half a million quid for a flat in Marchmont have passed. These three have been on the market for a while and appear to be still for sale:

• 123 Warrender Park Road – 3-bedroom corner maindoor flat in good condition, OA 450, on market since 23 April

• 76 (2F1) Thirlestane Road – 4-bedroom flat in reasonable condition, OO 410, on market since 10 May

• 94 (2F2) Thirlestane Road – 4-bedroom flat in good condition, OA 395, on market since 14 June

[okosanto]

It’ll be interesting to see the new schedule to see what wonderful £170,000 worth of improvements have been made!

They moved the kitchen...

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/portal/getEdmDoc?docid=62133334&ext=pdf

[Scunnered]

(I assume your £300,000 was a typo).

Yes, I misread it. The markup's not quite as big as I thought.

[Scunnered]

I wouldn't laugh this:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=109+greenbank+road+edinburgh&sll=51.479726,-0.292339&sspn=0.015609,0.028453&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=109+Greenbank+Rd,+Edinburgh+EH10+5RS,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.914365,-3.221698&spn=0,0.014226&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=55.914466,-3.221739&panoid=lUf82Da_dhx2kFPF4mM3mQ&cbp=12,68.16,,0,6.97

Has just gone for £580k!! It is extended but really is a ridiculous price when unextended ones still go for less than £400k (which is still ridiculous!).

Here it is on Google street view and seen from above (it's the one on the corner).

I'm sure it's a nice house, but five hundred and eighty thousand pounds? That's rather a lot of money.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

I think the days when people paid half a million quid for a flat in Marchmont have passed. These three have been on the market for a while and appear to be still for sale:

• 123 Warrender Park Road – 3-bedroom corner maindoor flat in good condition, OA 450, on market since 23 April

• 76 (2F1) Thirlestane Road – 4-bedroom flat in reasonable condition, OO 410, on market since 10 May

• 94 (2F2) Thirlestane Road – 4-bedroom flat in good condition, OA 395, on market since 14 June

The half-million-pound flat at 6BF Warrender Park Crescent has gone down to Offers Over £450,000 as of 24 July, after two weeks on the market.

According to the ESPC web site, the other three which I mentioned are still on the market, and still, on the surface (I’ve not viewed any of them), offer much better value for money.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

This flat at 5 Tipperinn Road, Merchiston, was for sale in May 2009, at OO 420K. It sold for 415K – under the OO price – on 10 June 2009.

Flippety-flip

Now it’s had a lick of paint and a new kitchen and bathroom put in, and is up for sale for OO 500K. It still looks like better value than everyone’s favourite basement flat in Marchmont, though.

[Pole]

This flat at 5 Tipperinn Road, Merchiston, was for sale in May 2009, at OO 420K. It sold for 415K – under the OO price – on 10 June 2009.

Flippety-flip

Now it’s had a lick of paint and a new kitchen and bathroom put in, and is up for sale for OO 500K. It still looks like better value than everyone’s favourite basement flat in Marchmont, though.

half a mil to face this sight every day... brrrrr..

Edited August 17, 2010 by Pole

[Muswell Hillbilly]

I’ve just spotted another interesting one. This flat, a false three-bedder, has been on the market since 29 March, dropping from OA 340, via FP 335 and FP 320, down to OA 300:

6 (3F2) Bruntsfield Gardens

Apparently the Home Report values it at 340K. Given that it is a false three-bedder of probably about 90 m², the mind boggles as to how a surveyor might have come up with such a figure. Across the way in Marchmont there is a genuine three-bedder, of probably about 110 m², which has been on sale for OA 340 for nearly two months – 13 (3F2) Spottiswoode Road.

Anyway, it turns out that the Bruntsfield Gardens flat sold for £309,125 on 28 August 2008. In my archives I have the original schedule from 2008, when the flat was up for FP 310, so I know it is the same one. It already had the same modern kitchen squished into the boxroom, and the decor was actually more neutral two years ago than now, though one or two carpets have been removed, but nothing has been done which might increase the value.

So, a property which was sold at the absolute market peak for 310K is now valued by a professional surveyor at 340K, the same as significantly larger flats in the same condition in an equivalent area. The vendor cannot get 340K for it but evidently wants or needs to sell, but cannot or will not take much of a loss on the price originally paid for it two years ago. This is definitely one to watch.

[fflump]

In an area like Bruntsfield making a 2-bedder a false 3-bedder does not increase value IMO.

False 3-bedders may appeal to daddy buying a flat for his uni kids, but it alienates professional couples that are after a nice kitchen rather than a 3rd bedroom.

You are right that surveyor is badly out-he is quoting the value of a genuine 3 bedder.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

We’ve heard of false three-bedders, with a windowless kitchen fitted into what should be the boxroom, but has anybody ever heard of a false two-bedder?

30 Spottiswoode Road – ‘two-bedroom’ maindoor flat – OA 285K

Check out the schedule: it refers to an ‘internal bedroom’ of 11 x 9 feet. Are they allowed to do that? I got the distinct impression that ‘boxroom’ was actually a legal term, for a windowless internal room, and that sellers were not allowed to call it a bedroom. Does anyone here have any genuine knowledge of Scottish property law?

I thought 285K was cheap for a Marchmont maindoor flat, and that explains why – it only has one bedroom! Just as the days of big Marchmont flats selling for half a million quid have passed, I doubt very much whether anyone will pay anywhere near 285K for a one-bedroom flat in the area. This is another one that I’ll be watching.

[fflump]

We’ve heard of false three-bedders, with a windowless kitchen fitted into what should be the boxroom, but has anybody ever heard of a false two-bedder?

30 Spottiswoode Road – ‘two-bedroom’ maindoor flat – OA 285K

Check out the schedule: it refers to an ‘internal bedroom’ of 11 x 9 feet. Are they allowed to do that? I got the distinct impression that ‘boxroom’ was actually a legal term, for a windowless internal room, and that sellers were not allowed to call it a bedroom. Does anyone here have any genuine knowledge of Scottish property law?

I thought 285K was cheap for a Marchmont maindoor flat, and that explains why – it only has one bedroom! Just as the days of big Marchmont flats selling for half a million quid have passed, I doubt very much whether anyone will pay anywhere near 285K for a one-bedroom flat in the area. This is another one that I’ll be watching.

I highly suspect they are NOT allowed to call an internal room a bedroom. If it was allowed then every flat description in Marchmont would be calling box rooms bedrooms. An email to the solicitors would suffice I am sure "hi-interested in your 2-bed flat but it only seems to be one bedroom. please explain" :-)

[b_real]

I highly suspect they are NOT allowed to call an internal room a bedroom. If it was allowed then every flat description in Marchmont would be calling box rooms bedrooms. An email to the solicitors would suffice I am sure "hi-interested in your 2-bed flat but it only seems to be one bedroom. please explain" :-)

Fairly intrigued about the bedroom / boxroom thingy. I emailed Marwicks this afternoon. Here is a record of the conversation:

Me: Hi there, I'm interested in the property above (30 Spottiswoode Road). It is advertised as a 2 bed, but only appears to have one bedroom. The "Internal Bedroom" (3.35m x2.74m / 11'0" x 9'0") appears to be a boxroom. Could you clarify whether this room is in fact a bedroom, and not a boxroom? Kind Regards, Brad

mail@marwicks.co.uk: It has been used as a bedroom, and is capable of use as such.

No name was attached to the reply.

Could have sworn a 'bedroom' was legally required to have a window leading to the outside, for health & safety.

PS - I'm not really interested in the property at all.

[dances with sheeple]

I've just spotted another interesting one. This flat, a false three-bedder, has been on the market since 29 March, dropping from OA 340, via FP 335 and FP 320, down to OA 300:

6 (3F2) Bruntsfield Gardens

Apparently the Home Report values it at 340K. Given that it is a false three-bedder of probably about 90 m², the mind boggles as to how a surveyor might have come up with such a figure. Across the way in Marchmont there is a genuine three-bedder, of probably about 110 m², which has been on sale for OA 340 for nearly two months – 13 (3F2) Spottiswoode Road.

Anyway, it turns out that the Bruntsfield Gardens flat sold for £309,125 on 28 August 2008. In my archives I have the original schedule from 2008, when the flat was up for FP 310, so I know it is the same one. It already had the same modern kitchen squished into the boxroom, and the decor was actually more neutral two years ago than now, though one or two carpets have been removed, but nothing has been done which might increase the value.

So, a property which was sold at the absolute market peak for 310K is now valued by a professional surveyor at 340K, the same as significantly larger flats in the same condition in an equivalent area. The vendor cannot get 340K for it but evidently wants or needs to sell, but cannot or will not take much of a loss on the price originally paid for it two years ago. This is definitely one to watch.

Before the final descent into madness and panic comes excessive euphoria? Some people in Edinburgh are very attached to their big numbers for house prices , it is actually quite sad now, the amount of otherwise intelligent people whe are going to be financially ruined for life. Bloke at work saying today that the council is borrowing money, millions, to buy up unsold new developments for social housing? so yuppie wanabe`s who borrowed 500k can get to live next door to junkies? It is surreal, Alice in Wonderland stuff.

[lulu]

Could have sworn a 'bedroom' was legally required to have a window leading to the outside, for health & safety.

PS - I'm not really interested in the property at all.

I think you can get away with it if it is a family home but is not allowed under HMO regulations. But I could be wrong.

Either way I stayed in an 'internal' bedroom for a few months, it was pretty awful, I had to sleep with the door open to avoid suffocating overnight.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

I think you can get away with it if it is a family home but is not allowed under HMO regulations. But I could be wrong.

Either way I stayed in an 'internal' bedroom for a few months, it was pretty awful, I had to sleep with the door open to avoid suffocating overnight.

They’re all at it now! Has the law suddenly changed or something?

‘3-bedroom’ flat which actually has two bedrooms and a boxroom – a snip at OO 315K

The boxroom has a skylight, but I think it still has to be called a boxroom, not a bedroom, doesn’t it?

[lulu]

They’re all at it now! Has the law suddenly changed or something?

‘3-bedroom’ flat which actually has two bedrooms and a boxroom – a snip at OO 315K

The boxroom has a skylight, but I think it still has to be called a boxroom, not a bedroom, doesn’t it?

I would hazard a guess that their target market is puchasing a place for some little darling (who almost certainly has been rejected from Oxbridge) by her overbearing parents whilst she is at university and will be bought unseen - the more bedrooms the better for renting out to their pals and the agents will be hoping that no one notices that one is actually a cupboard.

[Muswell Hillbilly]

I’m surprised not to see any comments from ccc yet on the Evening News web site:

Princes Street shop storerooms to be converted into flats

Full marks to Chris J for comment #4: ‘Why does the EEN constantly run PR puff pieces from property companies?’

[fflump]

We’ve heard of false three-bedders, with a windowless kitchen fitted into what should be the boxroom, but has anybody ever heard of a false two-bedder?

30 Spottiswoode Road – ‘two-bedroom’ maindoor flat – OA 285K

Check out the schedule: it refers to an ‘internal bedroom’ of 11 x 9 feet. Are they allowed to do that? I got the distinct impression that ‘boxroom’ was actually a legal term, for a windowless internal room, and that sellers were not allowed to call it a bedroom. Does anyone here have any genuine knowledge of Scottish property law?

I thought 285K was cheap for a Marchmont maindoor flat, and that explains why – it only has one bedroom! Just as the days of big Marchmont flats selling for half a million quid have passed, I doubt very much whether anyone will pay anywhere near 285K for a one-bedroom flat in the area. This is another one that I’ll be watching.

I had a word with ESPC. It is now 1-bedroom